821 replies to this topic

[Hebbeh]

IN

[lifescience]

Thank you for organizing this group buy. 

 

The official name for GHK/GHK-Cu (50/50) is (GHK)2Cu.  Comparing to GHK-Cu (1:1),  (GHK)2Cu is usually considered safer however a littler more challenging to synthesize because additional purification process needed. 

 

Just to help our team to have more options, the link below provides this product with purity>98% at $1,250 for every 50 grams of purchase.  $195 for 5 grams.  Might not provide vial package smaller than 1 gram.

 

http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/

 

 

 

Hey everyone. Its the new year (all the best) and time to get this group buy going!

I was hesitant to do this group buy as the postal service here in South Africa is both bankrupt (read cash-flow embezzled) and continuously on strike and just generally too 3rd world to be considered reliable.

Also, I was loath to work with everyone's hard earned cash and perhaps become as popular as baked beans on a bus trip if anything went wrong.

TeamTLR, have offered a rather elegant solution to both of the above issues:

They are willing to produce 30 grams of GHK/GHK-Cu (50/50) 98% at their own cost if the 30 or so interested people here commit to buying a gram each from them at 89.90USD per gram (+ shipping cost, as per selected/desired method). Your gram will arrive in 10 vials of 100 mg per vial.

They will add the item to their website to facilitate easy ordering once the 30 or so people who have expressed interest here confirm that they will be buying the product.
(This will allow everyone to select whichever shipping option they preferred upon checkout)

The GHK/GHK-Cu will be listed on the site at 109.90USD per gram,  but we get a discount code worth 20USD.
The code will be posted here and it will be valid for a period of 10 days from posting.

Here is the list of people who have shown interest either here or via PM:

Katrina >
medicineman > 1gram +
neuralis > 500mg
smithx
johnross47
thedarkbobo > 333mg
xEva
smccomas01 > 1gram
Hebbeh >
nbourbaki > 1gram
smccomas01 > 1gram
pure > got prices from Pivotal Bioscience pure GHK 179 for 5 grams 158 for 10
smithx > worried about copper
pampoenkop
neuralis
micro2000
sthira
Metagene
Soma
Infinite1
PWAIN
Ehvam
ceridwen
gt35r
ta5
zorba990
Volcanic
pleb

Logic

Please post your intention to buy here so that TeamTLR can start production. Once I confirm with them we have reached a 30g 'commitment' (or thereabouts) they will add the item to the website, remit the Code to me to post, and they will commence production.

The lead time from the commitment and subsequent posting of the aforementioned code is approximately 3 weeks.

I hope this meets with everyone's approval?

 

[Phoenicis]

I would personally guess that a liposomal GHK formulation would be the most interesting option. Most of my research on drug delivery indicates that liposomes are a good method. The recent paper on GHK by Pickart et al (2014) recommends this to avoid breakdown before the GHK reaches the intestines.

 

The authors make the following references:

 

• P. Li, H. M. Nielsen, and A. Müllertz, “Oral delivery of peptides and proteins using lipid-based drug delivery systems,” Expert Opinion on Drug Delivery, vol. 9, no. 10, pp. 1289–1304, 2012.
• J. Swaminathan and C. Ehrhardt, “Liposomal delivery of proteins and peptides,” Expert Opinion on Drug Delivery, vol. 9, no. 12, pp. 1489–1503, 2012. View at Publisher · View at Google Scholar 

I also found this study covering liposomal GHK preparation:

• PENG Kun-jian et al (2013).Preparation and Characterization of GHK-Cu Liposome and its Effects on Hair Growth in Mouse Alopecia Model .Department of Biotechnology,Dalian Medical University,Dalian 1160

I wonder if Team TLR could prepare a liposomal formulation? 

Edited by Phoenicis, 03 January 2015 - 02:21 AM.

[ceridwen]

I'm interested count me in too

[SearchingForAnswers]

Please count me in for 2 grams.

[Ark]

1 gram for me

[Logic]

I would personally guess that a liposomal GHK formulation would be the most interesting option. Most of my research on drug delivery indicates that liposomes are a good method. The recent paper on GHK by Pickart et al (2014) recommends this to avoid breakdown before the GHK reaches the intestines.

 

The authors make the following references:

 

• P. Li, H. M. Nielsen, and A. Müllertz, “Oral delivery of peptides and proteins using lipid-based drug delivery systems,” Expert Opinion on Drug Delivery, vol. 9, no. 10, pp. 1289–1304, 2012.
• J. Swaminathan and C. Ehrhardt, “Liposomal delivery of proteins and peptides,” Expert Opinion on Drug Delivery, vol. 9, no. 12, pp. 1489–1503, 2012. View at Publisher · View at Google Scholar 

I also found this study covering liposomal GHK preparation:

• PENG Kun-jian et al (2013).Preparation and Characterization of GHK-Cu Liposome and its Effects on Hair Growth in Mouse Alopecia Model .Department of Biotechnology,Dalian Medical University,Dalian 1160

I wonder if Team TLR could prepare a liposomal formulation? 

 

A liposomal GHK would be nice Phoenicis but will increase the price.

I believe its easy to make liposomes and recall guides here for doing so with a sonicator/piezoelectric .pond mister.
If you decide to go that way please state your intention to buy and do let us know how it goes.

 

I believe most people will dose their GHK/GHK-Cu sublingually as I plan to do.

 

[thedarkbobo]

 

Thank you for organizing this group buy. 

 

The official name for GHK/GHK-Cu (50/50) is (GHK)2Cu.  Comparing to GHK-Cu (1:1),  (GHK)2Cu is usually considered safer however a littler more challenging to synthesize because additional purification process needed. 

 

Just to help our team to have more options, the link below provides this product with purity>98% at $1,250 for every 50 grams of purchase.  $195 for 5 grams.  Might not provide vial package smaller than 1 gram.

 

http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/

 

 

 

This looks like a very good pricing indeed.
 

[johnross47]

1 gram for me. What about postage for UK?

[oppenheimer82]

1 gram for me please

[Logic]

 

Thank you for organizing this group buy. 

 

The official name for GHK/GHK-Cu (50/50) is (GHK)2Cu.  Comparing to GHK-Cu (1:1),  (GHK)2Cu is usually considered safer however a littler more challenging to synthesize because additional purification process needed. 

 

Just to help our team to have more options, the link below provides this product with purity>98% at $1,250 for every 50 grams of purchase.  $195 for 5 grams.  Might not provide vial package smaller than 1 gram.

 

http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/

 

So (GHK)2Cu is in fact a 50/50 mix of GHK and GHK-Cu Lifescience?

How does one arrive at that name?  Surely (2GHK)Cu or 2GHK-Cu makes more sense?

I thought it was 2 Cu's per GHK.

 

If 5 people from the same area got together that works out to $ 39 per gram! + postage, + fetching it, + aliquoting it.

 

Oh well;  those that want to go that route can do so.  I am going to keep collecting names for the TLR 'group buy'.

Edited by Logic, 03 January 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[lifescience]

After we mix 1 GHK and 1 GHK-Cu(1:1) together, the mix has 2 GHK and 1 Cu, so we call it (GHK)₂Cu.

 

Theoretically, using 2 molecular GHK to bond with 1 molecular Cu ion can reduce the free Cu ion in the mix (Free Cu ion is a heavy metal ion so people have concerns about its toxicity).  However, if GHK-Cu(1:1) is pure enough, then the free Cu ion should not be a concern anymore.

 

 

 

________________________________________________________

So (GHK)2Cu is in fact a 50/50 mix of GHK and GHK-Cu Lifescience?

How does one arrive at that name?  Surely (2GHK)Cu or 2GHK-Cu makes more sense?

I thought it was 2 Cu's per GHK.

 

If 5 people from the same area got together that works out to $ 39 per gram! + postage, + fetching it, + aliquoting it.

 

Oh well;  those that want to go that route can do so.  I am going to keep collecting names for the TLR 'group buy'.

 

http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/

 

Edited by lifescience, 03 January 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[StevesPetRat]

I'm in for a gram, if space permits.

This is a little scary, but whatever, that's what niacinamide and luteolin are for.

Chemoattraction of repair cells such as macrophages, mast cells, capillary cells

[ceridwen]

1gram please

[Logic]

After we mix 1 GHK and 1 GHK-Cu(1:1) together, the mix has 2 GHK and 1 Cu, so we call it (GHK)₂Cu.
 
Theoretically, using 2 molecular GHK to bond with 1 molecular Cu ion can reduce the free Cu ion in the mix (Free Cu ion is a heavy metal ion so people have concerns about its toxicity).  However, if GHK-Cu(1:1) is pure enough, then the free Cu ion should not be a concern anymore.
 

http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/

 
Thx Lifescience.  That clears things up fully. The small ₂ in (GHK)₂Cu eventually switched the light on for me.

 

Its reassuring that the pure GHK will bond with any free Cu that might be left in the GHK-Cu mix.

[david ellis]

2 grams please.

 

[Logic]

After we mix 1 GHK and 1 GHK-Cu(1:1) together, the mix has 2 GHK and 1 Cu, so we call it (GHK)₂Cu.
 
Theoretically, using 2 molecular GHK to bond with 1 molecular Cu ion can reduce the free Cu ion in the mix (Free Cu ion is a heavy metal ion so people have concerns about its toxicity).  However, if GHK-Cu(1:1) is pure enough, then the free Cu ion should not be a concern anymore.
 
 
 
________________________________________________________

So (GHK)2Cu is in fact a 50/50 mix of GHK and GHK-Cu Lifescience?
How does one arrive at that name?  Surely (2GHK)Cu or 2GHK-Cu makes more sense?
I thought it was 2 Cu's per GHK.
 
If 5 people from the same area got together that works out to $ 39 per gram! + postage, + fetching it, + aliquoting it.
 
Oh well;  those that want to go that route can do so.  I am going to keep collecting names for the TLR 'group buy'.
 
http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/

 
I have just read this again and the stuff Active peptides is offering IS NOT what was used in the studies linked here:

GHK or GHK-Cu was used in the studies.  the molecule shown on Active Peptides' site can be seen here
http://www.activepep...uct/ghk-cu-2-1/
it is in fact GHK-Cu-GHK.

To avoid confusion please note that the price of the 50/50 mix of GHK/GHK-Cu as used in the studies, from TeamTLR, is  $89.90 per gram (for 10 vials of 100mg each), not $39 per gram.  That was the per gram (min 5g) price of the wrong thing, from a different company. 

Also; you need to post a commitment to buy here as TeamTLR wont start making the stuff until we reach a total of 30 grams and the 'group buy will not happen.

We are at over 10 grams in 1 day, and I haven yet PMd the people who previously showed interest,  so things are looking good! 

[thedarkbobo]

I will refrain from ordering 1g for $89.90 + postal. As said earlier just wanted to try it and not spend too much.

If someone orders from activepeptide I'm in for 1g with $39 per gram.

 

Thank you.

[Logic]

I will refrain from ordering 1g for $89.90 + postal. As said earlier just wanted to try it and not spend too much.

If someone orders from activepeptide I'm in for 1g with $39 per gram.

 

Thank you.

 

No problem Thedarkbobo. 
Are you not worried about the fact that their molecule is NOT what was used in the studies linked here?
 

[thedarkbobo]

Why not the same molecule ?

 

"After we mix 1 GHK and 1 GHK-Cu(1:1) together, the mix has 2 GHK and 1 Cu, so we call it (GHK)₂Cu."

 

 

 

[Logic]

Why not the same molecule ?
 
"After we mix 1 GHK and 1 GHK-Cu(1:1) together, the mix has 2 GHK and 1 Cu, so we call it (GHK)₂Cu."

Check post # 137. Click the link in the post and you will see a pic of their molecule.

Its GHK-Cu-GHK which is not the GHK and GHK-Cu that was used in the studies.

Its similar and may well have similar effects, but without any studies I cannot recommend it and certainly would not take it.

It seems to me that what they actually do is mix 2 parts GHK to 1 part Cu and then start a reaction by some means which then gives the end product where 2 GHKs are bonded to 1 Cu.

The way Lifescience put it is ... correct as far as ratios go ..., but not as far as the end product/s go...
(I could use much stronger wording here)

[pure]

is "lifescience" TLR?

[Logic]

is "lifescience" TLR?

No! (I too was confused initially, due to that post)

Lifescience is Active Peptides.
http://www.activepeptide.com/

Veritas Incorruptus and Forty Six & 2 are TrueLife Research or TeamTLR.
http://teamtlr.com/

 

Perhaps I should start a new group buy thread to quell any confusion and generate new interest?

Edited by Logic, 04 January 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[smccomas01]

I am in for 2 grams. 

[88LS]

Hey Logic,

 

Glad someone with your expertise is organizing this group buy.

 

Count me in for 1 gram if there is still space please.

[Volcanic]

I saw people talking about the different between GHK, GHK-OAc, GHK-HCl and even GHK-3HCl, I am an organic chemist and would like to give my two cents.

GHK is a basic tripeptide (H-Gly-His-Lys-OH), usually it is salt form with different acids (acetic acid, hydrochloride and even TFA) for stability purpose or for purification purpose.

 

When the final PH is 6-7, based on its structure, it contains one molecular HOAc or HCl, which has no influence on its pharmacological activity. Acetate and chloride salt is common in API (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient), TFA is rare.

 

When the final PH is lower than 2, GHK can form salt with 3 strong acid (HCl or TFA). This is usally formed by removing Boc protecting group with dry HCl solution or TFA during the last synthetic step. thus the final formula is GHK-3HCl or GHK-3TFA, they show strong acid when solved in water and not good for directly application (painful when intravenous injection and irritate to skin) .

 

 

Check post # 137. Click the link in the post and you will see a pic of their molecule.

Its GHK-Cu-GHK which is not the GHK and GHK-Cu that was used in the studies.

Its similar and may well have similar effects, but without any studies I cannot recommend it and certainly would not take it.

It seems to me that what they actually do is mix 2 parts GHK to 1 part Cu and then start a reaction by some means which then gives the end product where 2 GHKs are bonded to 1 Cu.

The way Lifescience put it is ... correct as far as ratios go ..., but not as far as the end product/s go...
(I could use much stronger wording here)

 

 

Given the apparent instability of GHK alone, I wonder whether this reaction won't start on its own when the GHK and GHK-Cu are mixed in solution. 

[lifescience]

Thank you guys for all the discussion. This forum is a great knowledge exchange place. I hesitate to represent any specific companies including my own peptide manufacturing company.  However as a research chemist focusing on GHK peptide synthesis for years, I'd like to share my synthetic experience with the team.

 

(GHK)₂Cu stands for a ratio of GHK and Cu at 2:1. It is a mixture of GHK-Cu 1:1 and GHK.  During our process of manufacturing large scale of GHK-Cu(1:1) and (GHK)₂Cu, we found out that GHK-Cu(1:1) always crystallize out first after we mix GHK and Cu ion with 2:1 ration.  The chemical structure pictured on Active Peptide Company is a format to show the ratio of GHK and Cu ion.

 

The information in Dr. Pickart's paper is very interesting.  It says that "In human plasma and wound areas, GHK is likely to exist as a mixture of GHK and GHK-Cu.  GHK has a high binding affinity for copper(II)(pK=16.2) that is very close to albumin's affinity for copper(II)(pK=16.4). GHK effectively compeptes with albumin for copper. However, under physiological conditions only about 5% to 20% of GHK molecules would be expected to exist as GHK-Cu complexs with copper(II)"

 

http://www.skinbiolo...tionArticle.pdf

 

 

 

 

Why not the same molecule ?
 
"After we mix 1 GHK and 1 GHK-Cu(1:1) together, the mix has 2 GHK and 1 Cu, so we call it (GHK)₂Cu."

Check post # 137. Click the link in the post and you will see a pic of their molecule.

Its GHK-Cu-GHK which is not the GHK and GHK-Cu that was used in the studies.

Its similar and may well have similar effects, but without any studies I cannot recommend it and certainly would not take it.

It seems to me that what they actually do is mix 2 parts GHK to 1 part Cu and then start a reaction by some means which then gives the end product where 2 GHKs are bonded to 1 Cu.

The way Lifescience put it is ... correct as far as ratios go ..., but not as far as the end product/s go...
(I could use much stronger wording here)

 

 

 

[smithx]

Why would we be ordering a 6 peptide molecule rather than the 3 peptide molecule which we've been discussing?

 

It is much less likely that a 6 peptide molecule would be able to be absorbed either sublingually or by the oral route.

 

And is there even any evidence that this new molecule does anything beneficial?

 

I'm confused.

 

 

 

 

[Logic]

Why would we be ordering a 6 peptide molecule rather than the 3 peptide molecule which we've been discussing?

 

It is much less likely that a 6 peptide molecule would be able to be absorbed either sublingually or by the oral route.

 

And is there even any evidence that this new molecule does anything beneficial?

 

I'm confused.

 

We aren't Smithx
Lifescience is Active Peptides.
We  are ordering from TeamTLR.

 

I am not at all sure what Lifescience was implying or trying to say in his previous post.

I PMd him asking, but have not yet received a reply.
 

[Logic]

Thank you guys for all the discussion. This forum is a great knowledge exchange place. I hesitate to represent any specific companies including my own peptide manufacturing company.  However as a research chemist focusing on GHK peptide synthesis for years, I'd like to share my synthetic experience with the team.
 
(GHK)₂Cu stands for a ratio of GHK and Cu at 2:1. It is a mixture of GHK-Cu 1:1 and GHK.  During our process of manufacturing large scale of GHK-Cu(1:1) and (GHK)₂Cu, we found out that GHK-Cu(1:1) always crystallize out first after we mix GHK and Cu ion with 2:1 ration.  The chemical structure pictured on Active Peptide Company is a format to show the ratio of GHK and Cu ion.
 
The information in Dr. Pickart's paper is very interesting.  It says that "In human plasma and wound areas, GHK is likely to exist as a mixture of GHK and GHK-Cu.  GHK has a high binding affinity for copper(II)(pK=16.2) that is very close to albumin's affinity for copper(II)(pK=16.4). GHK effectively compeptes with albumin for copper. However, under physiological conditions only about 5% to 20% of GHK molecules would be expected to exist as GHK-Cu complexs with copper(II)"
 
http://www.skinbiolo...tionArticle.pdf

I am not at all sure what Lifescience means by this post and have not yet received a reply to my PM'd him asking, so am posting my questions here in the hope that he or someone else knowledgeable will enlighten me/us.

Lifescience your presence, knowledge and experience here are much appreciated.
As a lot of the people here that are interested in GHK/GHK-Cu are enthusiastic longevists but amateurs in the field of peptides etc. I hope you will take the time to answer my questions below:

• Are you saying that if one mixes 1 part GHK-Cu with 1 part GHK, the 2 will react spontaneously, without any other reagent, to form (GHK)2Cu?
• Or that the 2 will react to form (GHK)2Cu as soon as water and/or alcohol is added to the vial, or the mixture is put under the tongue, or when it gets into ones system?
• In other words; that the studies here are in fact showing the effects of (GHK)2Cu?

You then go on to mention one of Dr. Pickart's research papers in which the ratio of GHK/GHK-Cu automatically adjusts to between 95/5 and 80/20?

• Are you saying that no matter what ratio of GHK/GHK-Cu is taken the ratio will automatically adjust to between 95/5 and 80/20 in or systems and that using a 50/50 mixture will result in excess free copper in our systems that will cause damage?
• If so; does this mean that the positive results seen in studies using GHK-Cu occur in spite of the fact that unbound excess copper in ones system would result from taking it?

Finally; do you see any problem at all with following Dr. Pickart's advice of experimenting with a 50/50 mixture of GHK/GHK-Cu taken sublingually?

Edited by Logic, 05 January 2015 - 09:55 PM.