821 replies to this topic

[malbecman]

 

I do have to pay for these tests, so would rather not do too many of them. If TLR would like to supply a suggested method, I can forward that to the technician who will be doing the test. 

 

Are you at least getting a deal on the tests?  Commercial rates can be pretty brutal.  I'm not sure exactly what the best method would be here, but if you used LC/MS, then you should be able to at least tell if you have the right parent ion mass.   You can still have a wrong structure with the right mass, but you can't have the right structure with the wrong mass.  The LC alone will give you a pretty good idea of purity, but not of identity.

 

 

 

 Actually, Niner, sorry, but LC-MS will actually not give you a good idea of the purity.   The total ion chromatogram will only show you compounds that ionize and the peak heights of the compounds that do ionize is totally dependent on how well they ionize.    As an example, if you had a bunch of TCDD (a PAH) in there (which you would not want to take), it does not ionize at all via electrospray LC-MS.  You would never know it's in there.

 

 For purity, its best to run a UV-HPLC at a nonspecific wavelength like 220nm (or a diode array detector if you got one); this will show the presence of all chemical components.

 

Malbec "who does way too much mass spectrometry" man.  

[niner]

 

Are you at least getting a deal on the tests?  Commercial rates can be pretty brutal.  I'm not sure exactly what the best method would be here, but if you used LC/MS, then you should be able to at least tell if you have the right parent ion mass.   You can still have a wrong structure with the right mass, but you can't have the right structure with the wrong mass.  The LC alone will give you a pretty good idea of purity, but not of identity.

 

Actually, Niner, sorry, but LC-MS will actually not give you a good idea of the purity.   The total ion chromatogram will only show you compounds that ionize and the peak heights of the compounds that do ionize is totally dependent on how well they ionize.    As an example, if you had a bunch of TCDD (a PAH) in there (which you would not want to take), it does not ionize at all via electrospray LC-MS.  You would never know it's in there.

 

 For purity, its best to run a UV-HPLC at a nonspecific wavelength like 220nm (or a diode array detector if you got one); this will show the presence of all chemical components.

 

Malbec "who does way too much mass spectrometry" man.  

 

I thought that the LC would have a UV detector, which is what I meant by "LC alone".  I expected that the MS would operate downstream of that.  Is it common to not have UV or other detectors in LC/MS?

Edited by niner, 27 February 2015 - 12:57 AM.

[malbecman]

 I work at a big research university and can think of at least 18 LC-MS systems on this campus, none of which have a UV detector inline.   To be honest, I can't even think of one on this campus that does,

now that I think of it......huh.

[smithx]

OK so if we have to do HPLC I can get that done too, but in that case we definitely need a known-good sample.

 

So now it looks like we would have to take up a collection to get GenScript to make sufficient quantity for a sample (it will probably be only 10mg) and then we would be able to test against that. 

 

Malbecman, is that correct? 

 

 

 

 

I do have to pay for these tests, so would rather not do too many of them. If TLR would like to supply a suggested method, I can forward that to the technician who will be doing the test. 

 

Are you at least getting a deal on the tests?  Commercial rates can be pretty brutal.  I'm not sure exactly what the best method would be here, but if you used LC/MS, then you should be able to at least tell if you have the right parent ion mass.   You can still have a wrong structure with the right mass, but you can't have the right structure with the wrong mass.  The LC alone will give you a pretty good idea of purity, but not of identity.

 

 

 

 Actually, Niner, sorry, but LC-MS will actually not give you a good idea of the purity.   The total ion chromatogram will only show you compounds that ionize and the peak heights of the compounds that do ionize is totally dependent on how well they ionize.    As an example, if you had a bunch of TCDD (a PAH) in there (which you would not want to take), it does not ionize at all via electrospray LC-MS.  You would never know it's in there.

 

 For purity, its best to run a UV-HPLC at a nonspecific wavelength like 220nm (or a diode array detector if you got one); this will show the presence of all chemical components.

 

Malbec "who does way too much mass spectrometry" man.  

 

 

[pure]

Why would you go to all the trouble of getting Genscript to make a supposed "Reference Standard", when you can source it immediately from either of the Premier 'Gold Standard' suppliers, Sigma Aldrich and Bachem, at reasonable prices.

Sigma: Gly-His-Lys acetate salt, ≥97%  10 mg $135.50

Bachem: H-Gly-His-Lys-OH Acetate salt  250 mg  $98.00 / 1g $294

Unless I am missing something obvious, given Bachem's pricing, I dare say that if a multi-gram order had been placed with them, that their per gram price would have been less than what is being charged by the jackass cowboys, who are so knowledgeable and competent that they had no idea about hygroscopicity/Mannitol (and obviously, nor did their supplier), or that their alleged long term supplier closed over Chinese New Year.

And, what's more, you would probably have received it by now!

And, what's more, there would be no need to test or have any doubts about identity/purity.

[malbecman]

 I agree with Pure, just buy some from Bachem or Sigma.   The only issue would be whether they will sell to an individual or whether someone will have to use their business to make the purchase.

A small privately owned business would be best.

[Logic]

Why would you go to all the trouble of getting Genscript to make a supposed "Reference Standard", when you can source it immediately from either of the Premier 'Gold Standard' suppliers, Sigma Aldrich and Bachem, at reasonable prices.
Sigma: Gly-His-Lys acetate salt, ≥97%  10 mg $135.50
Bachem: H-Gly-His-Lys-OH Acetate salt  250 mg  $98.00 / 1g $294
Unless I am missing something obvious, given Bachem's pricing, I dare say that if a multi-gram order had been placed with them, that their per gram price would have been less than what is being charged by the jackass cowboys, who are so knowledgeable and competent that they had no idea about hygroscopicity/Mannitol (and obviously, nor did their supplier), or that their alleged long term supplier closed over Chinese New Year.
And, what's more, you would probably have received it by now!
And, what's more, there would be no need to test or have any doubts about identity/purity.

 
I notice that you have only ever started the 1 obligatory intro post on this forum and that your last 5 posts at least (I cant see further back) have all been on this thread.
http://www.longecity...ser/34144-pure/

Surely your... 'precious time and extensive knowledge' would be better spent doing something constructive for the longevity movement?

Why not start you own Group Buy from Bachem Pure...?
Had you done so when you 1st got involved; 'your' product might have been received by now.
And I, were I so Inclined, could be having a wonderful time bitching at you for adding Mannitol to it!



 

[Logic]

OK so if we have to do HPLC I can get that done too, but in that case we definitely need a known-good sample.
 
So now it looks like we would have to take up a collection to get GenScript to make sufficient quantity for a sample (it will probably be only 10mg) and then we would be able to test against that. 
 
Malbecman, is that correct?

A very generous and helpful member is willing to send you a gram as soon as he gets it SmithX.

However it seems that a known good sample is required to learn anything meaningful from testing.
Judging by the response here; it would seem that most people aren't very interested in getting said sample?
Is there any point in doing any testing without one? (heavy metals etc?)
 

[pure]

Logic, I have done something constructive for the Longecity movement.. I made a material contribution to the cause by actually paying an annual membership fee.

My knowledge is not extensive, so to compensate, I just make sure I deal with credible reputable knowledgeable competent suppliers who know exactly what they're talking about and doing, who aren't amateurs.

The Mannitol issue and not knowing about China's national closedown over CNY are not the issues, they just serve to confirm the level of competency and caliber as regards the supplier.

I never got involved. I just made two supplier suggestions (one not in China, one in China) to give the process some momentum.

And, if I organized a GB, you wouldn't have anything to bitch about, because the final supplier would be one which is competent, reputable, technically knowledgeable, experienced, and professional.

The writing was on the wall from day one. Just read those waffling ridiculous posts by "Forty Six and 2" full of non-sensical gumff trying to sound fancy, which contain zero meaningful content. No one talks and thinks like that. They are an attempt to sound fancy and knowledgeable by someone who I suspect dropped out of high school quite early on, and accordingly, who has the articulation and grammatical abilities consistent with that level of education completed, but who is trying to cover it up.

Just read some of the copy on their website. Review the products, many of which don't even disclose ingredients. Ask them for the ingredients listing for some of their products. You won't get them.

 

 

Sigma: Gly-His-Lys acetate salt, ≥97%  10 mg $135.50
Bachem: H-Gly-His-Lys-OH Acetate salt  250 mg  $98.00 / 1g $294
Unless I am missing something obvious, given Bachem's pricing, I dare say that if a multi-gram order had been placed with them, that their per gram price would have been less than what is being charged by the jackass cowboys, who are so knowledgeable and competent that they had no idea about hygroscopicity/Mannitol (and obviously, nor did their supplier), or that their alleged long term supplier closed over Chinese New Year.
And, what's more, you would probably have received it by now!
And, what's more, there would be no need to test or have any doubts about identity/purity.

ard", when you can source it immediately from either of the Premier 'Gold Standard' suppliers, Sigma Aldrich and Bachem, at reasonable prices.

 
I notice that you have only ever started the 1 obligatory intro post on this forum and that your last 5 posts at least (I cant see further back) have all been on this thread.
http://www.longecity...ser/34144-pure/

Surely your... 'precious time and extensive knowledge' would be better spent doing something constructive for the longevity movement?

Why not start you own Group Buy from Bachem Pure...?
Had you done so when you 1st got involved; 'your' product might have been received by now.
And I, were I so Inclined, could be having a wonderful time bitching at you for adding Mannitol to it!



 

 

 

[Logic]

...if I organized a GB, you wouldn't have anything to bitch about...

 
So organise a group buy, why don't you!?
As I will be adding water to it anyway, and using it topically as well as sublingually, I don't want any Mannitol (a sugar alcohol) in mine!

Just send it lyophilized, in hermetically sealed vials plz.

[pure]

Well, without mannitol, unless they're packing in Argon or Nitrogen environment (as if), there's a strong possibility that your vials will appear empty or at least to have less in them than they should, because GHK is hygroscopic and will have partially reconstituted itself via the moisture in the air inside the vial.

[pleb]

Highly unlikely. There's just not enough moisture in the air inside a sealed vial to reconstitute it.
All that happens is the surface of the peptide becomes sticky on the top surface where it's exposed which is then reconstituted once the vial is opened and enough water has been added. If there is any loss it's a tiny amount.
The first thing to do is get it in the freezer that stops any degradation.

[zorba990]

Any update on the teamtlr orders? Their website seems down, heading towards two months on this....hope there isn't a problem...

[resting]

Looks like no DNS and not ping from 96.126.127.9.   Details seem to indicate some form of 'front'.

 

Creation Date: 20-may-2014

Expiration Date: 20-may-2015

 

Edited by resting, 28 February 2015 - 07:26 PM.

[Forty Six & 2]

Kindly no worries.  We were totally 'hacked' and we will be doing all to resolve as expeditiously as possible issues with the site, though such will not likely come as readily as we would of course like, as well as we will be looking to prosecute criminally.

 

Our ability to both take and ship orders is wholly unaffected.   All is well otherwise, though we are certainly not pleased.

 

Note, while some may not wish to see such or be hesitant to accept such, TLR is ingrained with the ethos of "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior" and will be proceeding with all measures to afford continued superior quality and service, to pursue honor and justice, and to make means toward progress and betterment.

 

Our resolve is only strengthened!

 

Thank you kindly for your time and understanding.

 

Sincerely,

Forty Six & 2

& TeamTLR

[resting]

How are you going to take orders?

[Forty Six & 2]

Again, please note our ability to both take and ship orders is wholly unaffected.

 

Kindly if you desire any item we will afford  special accommodations and please contact at TLR@TeamTLR.com or to my PM.  

 

Kindly note via PM if no reply to any said e-mail sent within if there is no response within one hour.

 

We do all as necessary to best Serve.  Thank you!

[resting]

You do realise that without MX records emails will not be delivered. 

[Forty Six & 2]

My apologies, though I did a test e-mail prior and it was received.

 

I am not fluent in anything related to this area.  Kindly as such please use PM.

 

This is why I made distinct note as to contacting via PM if no response is received, as I was still unsure and thought that might be the case.

 

Many thanks~

[resting]

In case TLR are defunct. I have ordered  5 grams of GHK and 5 grams of GHK-CU (from Active Peptide)  and going to mix it myself etc.

 

 

[Forty Six & 2]

Just to reaffirm, wherein to confirm for those who may have any concern:

 

Kindly no worries. We were totally 'hacked' and we will be doing all to resolve as expeditiously as possible issues with the site, though such will not likely come as readily as we would of course like, as well as we will be looking to prosecute criminally and move toward civil actions.

Our ability to both take and ship orders is wholly unaffected.   All is well otherwise, though we are certainly not pleased.

Note, while some may not wish to see such or be hesitant to accept such, TLR is ingrained with the ethos of "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior" and will be proceeding with all measures to afford continued superior quality and service, to pursue honor and justice, and to make means toward progress and betterment.

Our resolve is only strengthened!
 

Again, please note our ability to both take and ship orders is wholly unaffected.
Kindly if you desire any item we will afford special accommodations and please contact to my PM.
All will be done as necessary to best Serve. 

 

Thank you kindly for your time and understanding.

Sincerely,
Forty Six & 2
& TeamTLR

Edited by Forty Six & 2, 01 March 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[Logic]

Forty Six & 2 from TLR is busy getting his hacked website up and running, so has asked me to post these HPLC charts for the GHK and GHK-Cu that are in our GHK/GHK-Cu.

He made a point of telling me to post that:

• "they are gracefully afforded as a reference to outside testing"
• "They are to be explicitly noted to not be held as anything else but in-house standard analytcal testing"

He also said that the GHK/GHK-Cu would start shipping next Monday.

Attached Files

•  GHK 052815 HPLC.pdf   133.97KB   20 downloads
•  GHK-Cu 052215 HPLC.pdf   144.06KB   10 downloads

Edited by Logic, 03 March 2015 - 03:39 AM.

[smithx]

I'm not sure what the utility of those graphs is really. 

 

They could be of anything, and we'd have no way of knowing. 

And they're in Chinese....

 

 

 

Forty Six & 2 from TLR is busy getting his hacked website up and running, so has asked me to post these HPLC charts for the GHK and GHK-Cu that are in our GHK/GHK-Cu.

He made a point of telling me to post that:

• "they are gracefully afforded as a reference to outside testing"
• "They are to be explicitly noted to not be held as anything else but in-house standard analytcal testing"

He also said that the GHK/GHK-Cu would start shipping next Monday.

 

[Ark]

.... Careful with TLR https://www.reddit.c...results/cp0452f

[resting]

I see TLR now have a holding page up.  We certainly will need to make sure we test our sourced GHK. 

[Logic]

I'm not sure what the utility of those graphs is really. 
 
They could be of anything, and we'd have no way of knowing. 
And they're in Chinese....

I agree, but assume the tests may be of use to the lab that is going to test or GHK?

I noticed that Ceretropic has offered to pay for the testing of TLR products and think that it may be a good idea to get him involved here, so have PM'd him.
Lets hope he posts here soon.
We can probably still use your lab SmithX as the lab is of our choosing according to Ceretropic.

We really need to get this testing thing organised in light of current events and product will start shipping on Monday.

[smithx]

Without a known-good sample, we are not going to be able to determine what TLR is providing. 

 

So first that needs to be sourced from a reliable provider, and if I'm doing the testing it should be sent from the provider directly to me. 

 

On the other hand, if we can get reasonable prices from a more reliable provider, we should probably just do that and not bother with TLR any more. 

[Logic]

Without a known-good sample, we are not going to be able to determine what TLR is providing. 
 
So first that needs to be sourced from a reliable provider, and if I'm doing the testing it should be sent from the provider directly to me. 
 
On the other hand, if we can get reasonable prices from a more reliable provider, we should probably just do that and not bother with TLR any more.

 

I was hoping to avoid all the hullabaloo in the TLR 'soap opera' thread in this thread SmithX.
But I suppose it was inevitable that at least some of it would spill over to here. (sigh...)
Pure..... Are you unwell or has your computer been swiped or something!??

Many of the products tested, like NSI-189, turned out to be just fine SmithX.
It was solely the OX range that was mostly Taurine.
Taurine is often used as a filler as it has good, but mild, effects of its own.
All the products tested were not 100% Taurine, so there was something else in them too right?
There is a hell of a lot of filler in some of them to be sure, but if whatever is not Taurine is a very strong substance, there is a good chance that these products do actually do what they are advertised to do.

Why Taurine?? Why not a cheap herbal mix that has at least similar, if milder properties?
Or flour, or even sea sand if you're really going to pull a scam and run?

(Apparently the OX substances are all new and have been found to be highly efficient in tests and are closely guarded Intellectual Property atm..?
Peer reviewed studies are being planned on them I'm told. I hope these are published soon as the claims being made for them are interesting. Until then...as TLR keeps saying, it is a matter of personal choice.
Personally, I am currently way more interested in J147 etc. for which there are already peer reviewed studies. There will soon be analytical charts too TLR tells me..?)

Now, a site being hacked or a post saying that products have been tested and found to be crap are just normal 'shit happens' type events.
But when two 'turds hit the fan' at exactly the same time; I begin to wonder...?
Now we have Ceretropic, a competing business, offering to pay for testing of all TLR products too...?

Ceretropic has been sent an invitation to this thread in order for us to have a random sample of GHK/GHK-Cu tested, but has ignored said invitation so far...
Has he/they realised that the offered testing is in fact going to prove TLRs products to be good, pure products and that he has in fact put his foot in it and offered to rub egg on his own face at great financial cost to himself..??

I would very much like the testing of GHK/GHK-Cu to happen.
But so far the group buy community in this thread has shown almost no interest in doing so?
No-one has shown any interest in donating toward a known good sample as you suggested?
Even the person who offered to send you a gram for testing has withdrawn the offer.

Unless there is a sudden flurry of interest posted in getting a known good sample and testing;

I am just going to go with my initial plan of starting at very low doses of GHK/GHK-Cu.

[Metagene]

Without a known-good sample, we are not going to be able to determine what TLR is providing.

So first that needs to be sourced from a reliable provider, and if I'm doing the testing it should be sent from the provider directly to me.

On the other hand, if we can get reasonable prices from a more reliable provider, we should probably just do that and not bother with TLR any more.

I was hoping to avoid all the hullabaloo in the TLR 'soap opera' thread in this thread SmithX.
But I suppose it was inevitable that at least some of it would spill over to here. (sigh...)
Pure..... Are you unwell or has your computer been swiped or something!??

Many of the products tested, like NSI-189, turned out to be just fine SmithX.
It was solely the OX range that was mostly Taurine.
Taurine is often used as a filler as it has good, but mild, effects of its own.
All the products tested were not 100% Taurine, so there was something else in them too right?
There is a hell of a lot of filler in some of them to be sure, but if whatever is not Taurine is a very strong substance, there is a good chance that these products do actually do what they are advertised to do.

Why Taurine?? Why not a cheap herbal mix that has at least similar, if milder properties?
Or flour, or even sea sand if you're really going to pull a scam and run?

(Apparently the OX substances are all new and have been found to be highly efficient in tests and are closely guarded Intellectual Property atm..?
Peer reviewed studies are being planned on them I'm told. I hope these are published soon as the claims being made for them are interesting. Until then...as TLR keeps saying, it is a matter of personal choice.
Personally, I am currently way more interested in J147 etc. for which there are already peer reviewed studies. There will soon be analytical charts too TLR tells me..?)

Basically from what I understand if ADJ01 has a 99.16% match to taurine it means it's chemical structure is a 99.16% match to taurine in the reference library. The leftover percentage is not filler.

[Logic]

Basically from what I understand if ADJ01 has a 99.16% match to taurine it means it's chemical structure is a 99.16% match to taurine in the reference library. The leftover percentage is not filler.

OK...?
So what could I add to Taurine to get a 50% match to Taurine?
Would flour, sea-sand, NSI-189 or ADJ01 (whatever that is) work ?

"leftover percentage is not filler"
Could it be the active ingredient?