821 replies to this topic

[Logic]

GHK the tripeptideGly-(L-His)-(L-Lys).
GHK was discovered during studies comparing the effect of human plasma from young persons (age 20–25) to plasma from older persons like GDF11 was.
It has a high affinity for highly destructive Cu2+ and forms a GHK-Cu complex and seems to reset genes to a yuonger, healthier state with the following downstream effects:

Increases cellular stemness and the secretion of trophic factors by mesenchymal stem cells.

 

Chemoattraction of repair cells such as macrophages, mast cells, capillary cells

 

Resets genes of diseased cells from patients with cancer or COPD to a more healthy state.

 

Blocks stomach ulcer development, and heals intestinal ulcers and bone tissue.

 

Neuronal development and maintenance.

 

Tightens skin, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fine lines, wrinkles, photodamage and hyperpigmentation by increasing protein synthesis of collagen, elastin, and blocks ultraviolet damage to skin keratinocytes and improves fibroblast recovery. (FGF2)

 

Improves wound healing and tissue regeneration (skin, hair follicles, stomach and intestinal linings, and boney tissue) by increasing protein synthesis of glycosaminoglycans, decorin, metalloproteinases, anti-proteases, vascular endothelial growth factor, nerve growth factor, neutrotropins 3 and 4, and erythropoietin

 

Possesses anti-inflammatory actions, suppresses free radicals, thromboxane formation, release of oxidizing iron, transforming growth factor beta-1, tumor necrosis factor alpha and protein glycation while increasing superoxide dismutase, vessel vasodilation.

GHK has a long history of safe use in wound healing and antiaging skin care.
It should synergise with GDF11 for amazing results.
As a short 3 amino chain it shoud be easily absorbed sublingually and easy to make.

http://www.hindawi.c...ri/2014/151479/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18644225
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3359723/

Edited by Logic, 21 October 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[Volcanic]

Yep! I actually joined this forum to ask about this, but of course I couldn't post links at the time and so failed to generate interest:

 

http://www.longecity...-cu-internally/

 

The possible connection with GDF11 is particularly interesting, since blood proteins are often made by the liver (not sure about GDF11 itself, I don't think the researchers even know yet), and GHK was initially discovered as a factor that decreases the liver's production of a blood protein that increases with age (fibrinogen). Could be that GHK itself would increase production of GDF11. While GHK isn't cheap, I imagine it's far more affordable than a recombinant protein. And injections might not be necessary.

 

I guess the money was never there to do real medical research on this, and cosmetics = $$$ without the need for FDA approval. I'd definitely like to see more on this, but it's off-patent...

 

Edit: related thread here: http://www.longecity...-vascular-more/

Edited by Volcanic, 22 October 2014 - 01:54 AM.

[ta5]

Interesting. I have wondered about using it orally. From the first and last studies you linked to, respectively:

 

The most likely effective dosage of GHK was given to rats for healing bone fractures. This mixture of small molecules included Gly-His-Lys (0.5 μg/kg), dalargin (1.2 μg/kg) (an opioid-like synthetic drug), and the biological peptide thymogen (0.5 μg/kg) (L-glutamyl-L-tryptophan) to heal bones. The total peptide dosage is about 2.2 μg/kg or, if scaled for the human body, about 140 μg per injection with 10 treatments per day [38, 65].

 

The use of portable continuous infusion pumps for a treatment might maintain an effective level in the plasma and extracellular fluid with the need for much less GHK. Possibly the peptide could be administered with a transdermal patch [66]. Another approach could be to use peptide-loaded liposomes as an oral delivery system for uptake into the intestinal wall without significant breakdown [67, 68].

 

The peptide could be administered intravenously or orally when encapsulated into liposomes. Strong systemic wound healing was induced in pigs at about 1.1 mg GHK-Cu per kilogram body weight which would correspond to about 75 mgs in humans. This is about 300-fold below GHK-Cu's toxic action (lowering of blood pressure). Much lower dosages may also be effective since GHK-Cu's actions on cells generally occur at a 1 nanomolar concentration [68].

[Logic]

As a short/small peptide one should be able to absorb it sublingually like Eptalon which is longer.

I assume that one would want to take GHK without ay attached Cu so that it can attach any free Cu in the system, so where to get GHK?

[zorba990]

http://www.skinactiv...eptide-GHK.html
But probably not copper free

[Logic]

http://www.skinactiv...eptide-GHK.html
But probably not copper free

 

I found that one too, but thx for looing.
Then I found Peptide Sciences.
http://www.peptidesciences.com/pal-ghk

I don't know how good this company is, but they have a very interesting selection of peptides.

[niner]

Then I found Peptide Sciences.
http://www.peptidesciences.com/pal-ghk

I don't know how good this company is, but they have a very interesting selection of peptides.

 

That's the palmitoylated version.  You'd probably want to get this one, which is just the bare peptide.  At over a buck a milligram, it's kinda pricey.  Time to look on Alibaba...

[niner]

Here's an alibaba supplier, $15-50/gram, 10 gram minimum order.

[ta5]

Hairevo has GHK powder.

 

You probably all know about skinbio's GHK creams and serums. They have 1% and a 3% serum.

[Ehvam]

So what would be the protocol for dosage here? According to th article quoted above it was under constant infusion.. 

I find this peptide pretty interesting as it has alot more evidence for it than most f the stuff talked about around here.

It seems the peptide is also a pretty effective treatment for cosmetics and hair loss

I'm surprised there is not much interest.

[gt35r]

Do you guys have a reliable source for GHK (w/ or w/o Cu) for topical application. There are a lot of products that claim anywhere from 0.1% to 2% GHK w/w but I have no way verify any of their class. 

[ceridwen]

Hairevo's samples all have copper in them. Is it possible to get this without copper?

[niner]

Yes.  The link I posted above (reliability unknown) is without copper.

[ta5]

Niner, The link you posted says:

 

3.Molecular Formula:C14H24N6O4Cu1 

 

Tripeptide-1 (GHK-Cu)

Sequence:(Gly-His-Lys)2.Cu.xHAc

 

And it says "Blue powder".

 

It's copper.

[niner]

Niner, The link you posted says:

 

3.Molecular Formula:C14H24N6O4Cu1 

 

Tripeptide-1 (GHK-Cu)

Sequence:(Gly-His-Lys)2.Cu.xHAc

 

And it says "Blue powder".

 

It's copper.

 

That's annoying of them.  Shortly before that, it says:

 

Quick Details

CAS No.:	130120-57-9	Other Names:	Tripeptide-1;	MF:	C30H54N6O5
EINECS No.:	..	Place of Origin:	China (Mainland)	Type:	cosmetic peptide
Grade Standard:	Cosmetic Grade	Brand Name:	Sinoway	Model Number:	Tripeptide-1
Purity:	98%	Apperance:	white powder

 

And the picture shows a white powder.  Which is right???

[gt35r]

Yes.  The link I posted above (reliability unknown) is without copper.

 

I don't think that is a topical preparation. 

[Logic]

Thx for the links and interest everyone.

I found Treonsverdery's post on beauty peptides while looking for peptide suppliers:

"Oral Peptide availability is a private sector technology.
Oral Vasopressin as well as Oral insulin have been created. Thus from a 7 mer peptide to a huge peptide protein peptide drugs have been produced. That strongly suggests that the systemically beneficial beauty peptides are able to use the same technology to be Oral peptide drugs.
One fairly simple approach is placing a polyethylene glycol side branch which optimizes the hydrophilic hydrophobic interactions of the peptide combined with enteric tabletting. Another combined approach from Unigene is described as:

1.This technology is applicable to a variety of peptides and small proteins, and it can achieve relative bioavailabilities ranging from 1 to 10%, depending on the size, charge, and structure of the peptide. No chemical modification or derivatization of the peptide is necessary to achieve peptide absorption. This is particularly advantageous when there is already an alternate approved formulation (for example, injectable or nasal) because the peptide in the oral formulation will not constitute an NCE. Also, all of the excipients used are generally regarded as safe or naturally occurring compounds.

Noting 1 to 10 pct availability, what is a plausible dose of oral beauty peptide. Oral vasopressin is published as effective at .2 to .4 milligrams. Thus the annual dose of a GHK tripeptide is likely 200 or 300 milligrams per year. That is less than us$100 per gram to custom synthesize..."


Palmitoyl Tripeptide-1

Palmitoyl Tripeptide-1 (PTri-1) has the INCI name Pal GHK and Tradenames Trylagen and Aldenine. It has been validated with in vitro as well as in vivo studies using human subjects. The results are impressive. In vitro tests using reconstituted human skin, yielded increases in collagen I and collagen IV synthesis of 128 and 81% respectively after just 15 days. Collagen III (the most abundant type of collagen in young skin) tripled!
Tissue sectioning of the treated skin tissue examined under an electron microscope revealed that the collagen fibers were significantly more uniform and better organized, as they would be in young skin. This effect results in fuller more supple skin.
In addition, in vitro studies showed that PTri-1 even inhibits the body's anticollagenase activity. Anticollagenase enzymes are one of the factors that cause collagen degradation as we age. Anticollagenase MMP-2 and MMP-3 were inhibited 74 and 57% respectively.
In vivo, twice daily application of Trylagen by 20 female volunteers aged 35 to 55 for 30 days resulted in a 29% decrease in wrinkle depth as measured by 3D optical equipment..."
http://www.longecity...-vascular-more/

 
I think that the Palmitoyl may be added to make GHK orally bioavailable, but wonder if sublingual dosing might not be better?

[Logic]

Peptide sciences.
$1.05/mg
http://www.peptidesciences.com/ghk-134
I don't see any mention of it being palmitoylated??

Genco.
$1.75/mg
http://www.gencopept...hk-cu-10mg.html
This does not seem to be palmitoylated, or have Cu attached?

http://www.peptidebioregulators.com/
http://pivotalbioscience.com/
These seem to be the same company, and need to be Emailed.

Has anyone found any more suppliers? I am wary of Alibaba?

Edit:
Theres a 25% discount from Genco for LC members.
http://www.longecity...genco-peptides/
so $1.31/mg

Edited by Logic, 25 October 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[Ehvam]

http://www.gencopept...l-ghk-10mg.html

 

would this count as the palmitated peptide?

 

I would order the peptide sciences one, especially since it seems the dosage would be so low that it would last a  fair amount of time... but how would dosage work?

sublingual, I can do injections but prefer not to.

I've got the lab rat available and good to go if we could figure out the best option here.

[Logic]

http://www.gencopept...l-ghk-10mg.html
 
would this count as the palmitated peptide?
 
I would order the peptide sciences one, especially since it seems the dosage would be so low that it would last a  fair amount of time... but how would dosage work?
sublingual, I can do injections but prefer not to.
I've got the lab rat available and good to go if we could figure out the best option here.

Well from Treonsverdery's post:
"...Noting 1 to 10 pct availability, what is a plausible dose of oral beauty peptide. Oral vasopressin is published as effective at .2 to .4 milligrams..."
Now if you go sublingual you should get more than the 10% you would get from the modified for oral use peptide pills, so 1 bottle should give y 50 doses of .2 mg.

I would go with the red wine and distilled water mix as outlined in the Epitalon thread and put the drops under my tongue.

I would also check with the manufacturer through to make sure you are getting the unpalmitated, copper free stuff.

[Ehvam]

So would that be two doses per day, or one? If once a day that's not too bad, cost wise. If twice a day, then it gets a bit harder to maintain.

Or, in order to maintain a more constant plasma level 0.1mg 2x a day

[niner]

 

Yes.  The link I posted above (reliability unknown) is without copper.

 

I don't think that is a topical preparation. 

 

It's not.  It's a powder, and is either uncomplexed or complexed with copper, depending on which part of the description you believe.  That was probably a cut and paste error on the part of the underling who created the descriptions for the compounds.  It could be formulated as a topical, or it could be used orally or sublingually.  It could even be injected.  This thread is about systemic use of GHK, but discussion has veered back and forth between systemic and topical applications.
 

[thedarkbobo]

As far as the paper says, it's safe, but getting non-CU or mix cu/non-cu GHK seems to be hard..

 

3.8. GHK as a Clinical Treatment

GHK, abundantly available at low cost in bulk quantities, is a potential treatment for a variety of disease conditions associated with aging. The molecule is very safe and no issues have ever arisen during its use as a skin cosmetic or in human wound healing studies.

Most of our key experiments used a 1 : 1 mixture of copper-free GHK and GHK : Cu(2+). In wound healing experiments, the addition of copper strongly enhanced healing. However, others often obtain effective results without added copper.

 

Based on our studies, in which GHK was injected intraperitoneally once daily to induce systemic wound healing throughout the body, we estimate about 100–200 mgs of GHK will produce therapeutic actions in humans. But even this may overestimate the necessary effective dosage of the molecule. Most cultured cells respond maximally to GHK at 1 nanoM. GHK has a half-life of about 0.5 to 1 hour in plasma and two subsequent tissue repair studies in rats found that injecting GHK intraperitoneally 10 times daily lowered the necessary dosage by approximately 100-fold in contrast to our earlier studies [38, 65].

 

The use of portable continuous infusion pumps for a treatment might maintain an effective level in the plasma and extracellular fluid with the need for much less GHK. Possibly the peptide could be administered with a transdermal patch [66]. Another approach could be to use peptide-loaded liposomes as an oral delivery system for uptake into the intestinal wall without significant breakdown.

 

Soo here we come to dosing and if you should rather take it often for few days and stop or it makes sense to take daily.

 

If I read correctly, we need around 100-200mgs of non cu(+cu if we wish) mix daily. Thats not so expensive for cu version, but non-cu is soo pricy...

 

 

[Ehvam]

"the addition of copper strongly enhanced healing. However, others often obtain effective results without added copper."

 

So maybe we really don't need the non cu at all. If the addition of cu makes it work better.

Lots of interesting stuff in that quote.. The half-life especially.

I wonder if this is a peptide we can also use intranasally. Seems a few peptide preparations work well that way. If so, it might be easier to dose several times a day as well as use lower doses per day. 

[ceridwen]

Copper is toxic. Associated with neurodegenerative diseases I would not advise

[thedarkbobo]

As toxic as any metal probably, so maybe we should count how much (in mg's) of Cu would we take while taking lets say 1g of GHK-cu?

(as % of the mass - 50%? lot less?). If its very high then no, but if resonable amount and temporary, cycled use, we could use some form of copper balancing like Zinc, water, epsom salt baths.......

 

Also question is if BOUND cu is toxic? I see sources stating that "Unbound (free) copper ions are toxic." Here Cu is bound to ghk..but anyway if the main point of ghk was to bind cu from body, thats probably why we should use copper free...Whats the way of working? Positive effects are due to copper binding or copper binding is just a "side effect"/additional way of working of GHK? I was guessing that our body produces ghk to do something, but it also binds cu.

 

Edited by thedarkbobo, 02 November 2014 - 08:35 PM.

[Logic]

As far as the paper says, it's safe, but getting non-CU or mix cu/non-cu GHK seems to be hard..

3.8. GHK as a Clinical Treatment

GHK, abundantly available at low cost in bulk quantities, is a potential treatment for a variety of disease conditions associated with aging. The molecule is very safe and no issues have ever arisen during its use as a skin cosmetic or in human wound healing studies.
Most of our key experiments used a 1 : 1 mixture of copper-free GHK and GHK : Cu(2+). In wound healing experiments, the addition of copper strongly enhanced healing. However, others often obtain effective results without added copper.
 
Based on our studies, in which GHK was injected intraperitoneally once daily to induce systemic wound healing throughout the body, we estimate about 100–200 mgs of GHK will produce therapeutic actions in humans. But even this may overestimate the necessary effective dosage of the molecule. Most cultured cells respond maximally to GHK at 1 nanoM. GHK has a half-life of about 0.5 to 1 hour in plasma and two subsequent tissue repair studies in rats found that injecting GHK intraperitoneally 10 times daily lowered the necessary dosage by approximately 100-fold in contrast to our earlier studies [38, 65].
 
The use of portable continuous infusion pumps for a treatment might maintain an effective level in the plasma and extracellular fluid with the need for much less GHK. Possibly the peptide could be administered with a transdermal patch [66]. Another approach could be to use peptide-loaded liposomes as an oral delivery system for uptake into the intestinal wall without significant breakdown.

 
Soo here we come to dosing and if you should rather take it often for few days and stop or it makes sense to take daily.
 
If I read correctly, we need around 100-200mgs of non cu(+cu if we wish) mix daily. Thats not so expensive for cu version, but non-cu is soo pricy...

 

 
From the same paper:
 
"...GHK has a very high affinity for Cu(2+) (pK of association = 16.4) and can easily obtain copper from the blood’s albumin bound Cu(2+) (pK of association = 16.2) [3]. Most of our key experiments used a 1 : 1 mixture of copper-free GHK and GHK : Cu(2+)..."
http://www.hindawi.c...ri/2014/151479/

I know that its a good idea to bond free copper as it causes all sorts of oxidative mayhem, but I don't know that we would want to pull bound copper out of blood albumin etc!??

 

Some reading:

The State of Copper in Human Serum: Evidence for an Amino Acid-bound Fraction
http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC442048/

Copper Transport and Its Disorders: Molecular and Cellular Aspects
http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Copper transport
http://ajcn.nutritio...5/965S.full.pdf

http://www.mayomedic...terpretive/8612

Also the short half life begs questions: Is it necessary to keep levels high all day with liposomes and/or some sort of time release formulation, or could one just take a small dose before/after meals to soak up some unbound copper and do its work?
 

[pure]

A 100-200 mgs dosage in humans has been mentioned.

 

Also, posters have mentioned that at least GHK-Cu is not expensive.

 

But where can you find 100-200 mgs for a price which is not expensive?

 

Peptide Sciences have 200 mgs of GHK-Cu for $240, which would be unaffordable for regular use.

 

Or, perhaps I've misunderstood the dosage/frequency.

 

Any clarification will be appreciated.

Edited by pure, 06 November 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[thedarkbobo]

From what I read they also say that if you dose it few times in a day (or just not once - then twice daily for a week should also be fine?), then the required dose was much smaller. They tried to dose it high once as half life is very short, and later divided into 10 doses. I guess that not for therapeutic use that would be 2*7 (one week) = 100/200 mg..thats 7-14 mg per dose...but the article doesn't state that it can be used sublingually/orally as powder, rather "to use peptide-loaded liposomes as an oral delivery system". So I dont know if taking powder sublingually/orally would work or just be broken down to x + Cu...

Edited by thedarkbobo, 06 November 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[Logic]

I am going to quote Pure's post in Peptide Bioregulators (Russian) here:
"...In summary:
- Proteins and Polypeptides are broken down during the digestive process to smaller/shorter peptides
- Peptides up to 4 amino acids in length are readily absorbed...

Biochemistry of digestion, absorption and detoxification - Prof. Dr. Hedef D. El-Yassin (2011)

3) Absorption of Amino Acids and Peptides
Dietary proteins are, with very few exceptions, not absorbed. Rather, they must be
digested into amino acids or di- and tripeptides first, through the action of gastric and
pancreatic proteases. The brush border of the small intestine is equipped with a
family of peptidases. Like lactase and maltase, these peptidases are integral
membrane proteins rather than soluble enzymes. They function to further the
hydrolysis of lumenal peptides, converting them to free amino acids and very small
peptides. These endproducts of digestion, formed on the surface of the enterocyte,
are ready for absorption.

b) Absorption of Peptides
There is virtually no absorption of peptides longer than four amino acids. However, there is
abundant absorption of di- and tripeptides in the small intestine. These small peptides are
absorbed into the small intestinal epithelial cell by cotransport with H+ ions via a transporter
called PepT1..."
http://www.longecity...ssian/?p=696575

So it looks like GHK should be absorbed intact if swallowed. I wonder about GHK-Cu?

Do you have any info on pricing for GHK or GHK-Cu from Pivotal Bioscience in Australia or elsewhere Pure?