821 replies to this topic

[Jesuisfort]

Hi, I read somewhere that GHK-CU human production is about 200 mcg /ml  , people have 4 to 6 L of blood

 

So If we do the math :  200x1000x4=800 000 mcg of GHK-cu =  800 mg 

 

So  a human has 800mg of ghk cu in his body 

 

So 2 mg,  4mg... 10 mg , will probably do nothing ?

[smithx]

A 100-200 mgs dosage in humans has been mentioned.

 

Also, posters have mentioned that at least GHK-Cu is not expensive.

 

But where can you find 100-200 mgs for a price which is not expensive?

 

Peptide Sciences have 200 mgs of GHK-Cu for $240, which would be unaffordable for regular use.

 

Or, perhaps I've misunderstood the dosage/frequency.

 

Any clarification will be appreciated.

 

This article is an overview of the effects of GHK: https://www.hindawi....ri/2014/151479/

 

This section talks about dosing, more interesting parts with my bolding:

 

GHK, abundantly available at low cost in bulk quantities, is a potential treatment for a variety of disease conditions associated with aging. The molecule is very safe and no issues have ever arisen during its use as a skin cosmetic or in human wound healing studies.

GHK has a very high affinity for Cu(2+) (pK of association = 16.4) and can easily obtain copper from the blood’s albumin bound Cu(2+) (pK of association = 16.2) [3]. Most of our key experiments used a 1 : 1 mixture of copper-free GHK and GHK : Cu(2+). In wound healing experiments, the addition of copper strongly enhanced healing. However, others often obtain effective results without added copper.

Cells within tissues are under the influence of many other regulatory molecules. Thus, GHK would be expected to influence the cells’ gene expression to be more similar to that of a person of age 20–25, an age when the afflictions of aging are very rare. Based on our studies, in which GHK was injected intraperitoneally once daily to induce systemic wound healing throughout the body, we estimate about 100–200 mgs of GHK will produce therapeutic actions in humans. But even this may overestimate the necessary effective dosage of the molecule. Most cultured cells respond maximally to GHK at 1 nanoM. GHK has a half-life of about 0.5 to 1 hour in plasma and two subsequent tissue repair studies in rats found that injecting GHK intraperitoneally 10 times daily lowered the necessary dosage by approximately 100-fold in contrast to our earlier studies [38, 65].

The most likely effective dosage of GHK was given to rats for healing bone fractures. This mixture of small molecules included Gly-His-Lys (0.5 μg/kg), dalargin (1.2 μg/kg) (an opioid-like synthetic drug), and the biological peptide thymogen (0.5 μg/kg) (L-glutamyl-L-tryptophan) to heal bones. The total peptide dosage is about 2.2 μg/kg or, if scaled for the human body, about 140 μg per injection with 10 treatments per day [38, 65].

The use of portable continuous infusion pumps for a treatment might maintain an effective level in the plasma and extracellular fluid with the need for much less GHK. Possibly the peptide could be administered with a transdermal patch [66]. Another approach could be to use peptide-loaded liposomes as an oral delivery system for uptake into the intestinal wall without significant breakdown [67, 68].

 

 

[ta5]

Int J Physiol Pathophysiol Pharmacol. 2018 Jun 25;10(3):132-138. eCollection 2018.

The peptide glycyl-ʟ-histidyl-ʟ-lysine is an endogenous antioxidant in living organisms, possibly by diminishing hydroxyl and peroxyl radicals.

Sakuma S1, Ishimura M1, Yuba Y1, Itoh Y 1, Fujimoto Y1.

Despite evidence that tripeptide glycyl-ʟ-histidyl-ʟ-lysine (GHK) is an endogenous antioxidant, its mechanism and importance are not fully understood. In the present study, the ability of GHK to reduce levels of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in Caco-2 cells was evaluated by flow cytometry with the oxidation-sensitive fluorescent dye 2',7'-dichlorodihydrofluorescein diacetate. Further, types of ROS diminished by GHK were assessed by utilizing an electron spin resonance (ESR) spin-trapping technique. GHK reduced the tert-butyl hydroperoxide-induced increase in ROS levels in Caco-2 cells at concentrations of 10 µM or less. Experiments utilizing an ESR spin-trapping technique revealed that, among hydroxyl (·OH), superoxide (O2-·), and peroxyl (ROO·) radicals generated by respective chemical reaction systems, GHK diminished signals of both ·OH and ROO·, but not O2-·. Additionally, the GHK effect on the signal of ·OH was much stronger than those of other well-known antioxidative, endogenous peptides, carnosine and reduced glutathione. These results suggest that GHK can function as an endogenous antioxidant in living organisms, possibly by diminishing ·OH and ROO·.

PMID: 30042814

[triguy]

Yep! I actually joined this forum to ask about this, but of course I couldn't post links at the time and so failed to generate interest:

 

http://www.longecity...-cu-internally/

 

The possible connection with GDF11 is particularly interesting, since blood proteins are often made by the liver (not sure about GDF11 itself, I don't think the researchers even know yet), and GHK was initially discovered as a factor that decreases the liver's production of a blood protein that increases with age (fibrinogen). Could be that GHK itself would increase production of GDF11. While GHK isn't cheap, I imagine it's far more affordable than a recombinant protein. And injections might not be necessary.

 

I guess the money was never there to do real medical research on this, and cosmetics = $$$ without the need for FDA approval. I'd definitely like to see more on this, but it's off-patent...

 

Edit: related thread here: http://www.longecity...-vascular-more/

 

 

 

what is a fair price for 10mg of GHK-cu????

[ta5]

Did anybody settle on a delivery method?  Would something like DMSO be helpful transporting it through the skin?

 

Dr. Pickart is now selling 3% GHK-Cu + DMSO body cream.

 

I wonder what folks here think of this? 

 

I was surprised he would use DMSO. I like the idea of increased absorption, but whenever someone suggests DMSO someone else always warns about absorbing toxins and microbes through your skin.

[JamesPaul]

Hi, I read somewhere that GHK-CU human production is about 200 mcg /ml  , people have 4 to 6 L of blood

 

So If we do the math :  200x1000x4=800 000 mcg of GHK-cu =  800 mg 

 

So  a human has 800mg of ghk cu in his body 

 

So 2 mg,  4mg... 10 mg , will probably do nothing ?

 

Earlier in this thread, someone quoted Dr. Loren Pickart as responding that a 20-to-25-year-old students had 200 ng/ml in their blood.  That is also stated in this paper:

 

skinbiology.com/Regenerative_and_Protective_Actions_of_GHKCu.pdf

 

One nanogram is a billionth of a gram.  A microgram (mcg) is a millionth of a gram.  So if someone has 4 liters of blood, 200 ng x 1000 x 4 = 800,000 ng = 800 micrograms = 0.8 mg.

[Phoebus]

Dr. Pickart is now selling 3% GHK-Cu + DMSO body cream.

 

I wonder what folks here think of this? 

 

I was surprised he would use DMSO. I like the idea of increased absorption, but whenever someone suggests DMSO someone else always warns about absorbing toxins and microbes through your skin.

 

 

why on earth would you want to be absorbing that much free copper though? You only need very tiny amounts of copper and too much is very bad. 

[ta5]

why on earth would you want to be absorbing that much free copper though? You only need very tiny amounts of copper and too much is very bad. 

 

It's not free. It's bound to GHK.

 

I came across this product:

GHK-Cu 5mg sublingual tablets

 

Edited by ta5, 16 July 2019 - 11:53 PM.

[Soalian]

I bought my GHK from Angstrom Labs (angstrom-labs.com).

Seems like a good source (shipped fast and didn't break the bank), but I've only been using the GHK for a few days.

I have a question for you guys, what do you think about injecting GHK rather than applying topically? Wouldn't that be better for absorbing more of it rather than applying topically?

 

I've been injecting Ghk-Cu subcutaneously for 3 weeks now, the product I use is marketed as "cosmetic" Ghk-Cu, though, like you, I can't see many differences from the injectable version.

 

Difficult to say if I'm doing the right thing, because Ghk-Cu only shines in using it int the long-term, but for me the positives outweigh the cons for now

[bi0hacker]

I recently started injecting GHK-Cu at 20-40mg a day. I haven't been using it for long. It was only about two weeks that I used it so you guys won't believe this, but I will tell you anyway. First the good news then the bad news. I gave myself a scar on my forehead a couple years ago from microneedling too intensely. That scar is almost completely gone now. It wasn't big, but it was easily noticeable. It was maybe a quarter square inch. Now you have to look really close to see where it was, and if you didn't know what you were looking for you wouldn't notice it. I also started taking HGH shortly before this, but HGH takes a long time to work on scars so I think it was likely the GHK-Cu or a combination of the two.

 

Now the bad news. After about two weeks I developed a bad itch on my neck and back, then a red/purple rash on my hands. My hands felt arthritic. It was painful to apply pressure to them, and somewhat difficult to close my fist completely. Also my ears felt like they were on fire. I stopped taking my peptide injections, and also stopped taking AKG which I had also recently started using as I suspected it was either copper or AKG that was causing it. The rash went away after a couple days. I don't get rashes and don't have any allergies that I know of so I'm no expert but it looked like a psoriatic type rash but flat and without the scales.  After the rash was gone for two days I took AKG again and the rash came back that night mildly on my hands and a more hives like rash on my stomach and shoulder. I stopped AKG again thinking that must be it and the rash again went away after a couple days. Then I started my injections again  today and shortly after injecting GHK the rash flared up again on my right hand. This time it was just one one finger and the palm, and it went a way after a couple hours. I'll try the GHK again tomorrow and see what happens.

Edited by bi0hacker, 01 April 2021 - 06:03 AM.

[aribadabar]

I recently started injecting GHK-Cu at 20-40mg a day. I haven't been using it for long. It was only about two weeks that I used it so you guys won't believe this, but I will tell you anyway. First the good news then the bad news. I gave myself a scar on my forehead a couple years ago from microneedling too intensely. That scar is almost completely gone now. It wasn't big, but it was easily noticeable. It was maybe a quarter square inch. Now you have to look really close to see where it was, and if you didn't know what you were looking for you wouldn't notice it. I also started taking HGH shortly before this, but HGH takes a long time to work on scars so I think it was likely the GHK-Cu or a combination of the two.

 

Now the bad news. After about two weeks I developed a bad itch on my neck and back, then a red/purple rash on my hands. My hands felt arthritic. It was painful to apply pressure to them, and somewhat difficult to close my fist completely. Also my ears felt like they were on fire. I stopped taking my peptide injections, and also stopped taking AKG which I had also recently started using as I suspected it was either copper or AKG that was causing it. The rash went away after a couple days. I don't get rashes and don't have any allergies that I know of so I'm no expert but it looked like a psoriatic type rash but flat and without the scales.  After the rash was gone for two days I took AKG again and the rash came back that night mildly on my hands and a more hives like rash on my stomach and shoulder. I stopped AKG again thinking that must be it and the rash again went away after a couple days. Then I started my injections again  today and shortly after injecting GHK the rash flared up again on my right hand. This time it was just one one finger and the palm, and it went a way after a couple hours. I'll try the GHK again tomorrow and see what happens.

40 mg is overdose. Stick to 20mg/d max preferably in 2x10mg AM and PM.

[bi0hacker]

40 mg is overdose. Stick to 20mg/d max preferably in 2x10mg AM and PM.

 

I know it's a high dose, but others didn't get much in the way of results at lower doses. The necessary dose would seem to be about 5mg or less. However, this paper suggests a dose of 100-200 mgs in humans, and Dr. Pickart recommended 75mg 3x/wk at one time. 

 

Based on our studies, in which GHK was injected intraperitoneally once daily to induce systemic wound healing throughout the body, we estimate about 100–200 mgs of GHK will produce therapeutic actions in humans. But even this may overestimate the necessary effective dosage of the molecule. Most cultured cells respond maximally to GHK at 1 nanoM. GHK has a half-life of about 0.5 to 1 hour in plasma and two subsequent tissue repair studies in rats found that injecting GHK intraperitoneally 10 times daily lowered the necessary dosage by approximately 100-fold in contrast to our earlier studies

 

From the rat study:

The total peptide dosage is about 2.2 μg/kg or, if scaled for the human body, about 140 μg per injection with 10 treatments per day

 

That works out to a dose of 140mg/day if given in a single injection.

 

This paper also suggests a high dose.

 

Strong systemic wound healing was induced in pigs at about 1.1 mg GHK-Cu per kilogram body weight which would correspond to about 75 mgs in humans. This is about 300-fold below GHK-Cu's toxic action (lowering of blood pressure).

 

So 40 mg may or may not be unnecessarily high, but it shouldn't be a toxic overdose. 

 

 

 

At any rate, I've been injecting 20mg/day and my skin is still more sensitive, but the rash is gone. I will continue like this for now. I try to split it into 2 injections, but sometimes I do it in one. I would do 10 injections, but that's not feasible. 

Edited by bi0hacker, 05 April 2021 - 06:06 AM.