128 replies to this topic

[Healthy Tony]

I just read this article indicating that the flavanols in cocoa may be beneficial for memory:

http://www.today.com...loss-1D80243140

 

Has anyone noticed any effect on memory from supplementing cocoa? I'm not sure if traditional supplements would contain enough flavanols, but I haven't calculated this yet.

[GoingPrimal]

I've noticed both short term and long term benefits from cacao. Originally I was skeptical of cacao and it's "superfood" status, but more and more studies are showing it's myriad benefits. 

[Healthy Tony]

I've noticed both short term and long term benefits from cacao. Originally I was skeptical of cacao and it's "superfood" status, but more and more studies are showing it's myriad benefits. 

 

Indeed cocoa is proving itself to be quite the superfood, especially after this study. What form was the cocoa was the cocao in?

[ZHMike]

Wow this is news.. the flavenoids do not just slow memory loss, but seem to rejuvenate the brain to a younger more effective state. Super small sample size, but this is good news

[Turnbuckle]

It appears that epicatechin is the flavanol of interest--

 

Plant-Derived Flavanol (−)Epicatechin Enhances Angiogenesis and Retention of Spatial Memory in Mice

 

There is also evidence it "enhances skeletal muscle angiogenesis and mitochondrial proliferation"--

 

(−)-EPICATECHIN IS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED ANGIOGENIC AND MITOCHONDRIAL SIGNALING IN THE HINDLIMB OF RATS SELECTIVELY BRED FOR INNATE LOW RUNNING CAPACITY

 

Epicatechin is sold as "Follidrone," but it isn't clear how much is in a capsule, as it's given as a single line with epicatechin and rice powder totaling 500 mg. Could be only 1 mg of epicatechin and 499 of rice powder.

 

Another source that says it has 150 mg epicatechin--Follidrex.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 27 October 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[Healthy Tony]

Turnbuckle: Great find, but since we can't be sure of either the amount in each capsule or if there are other flavanols affecting the outcome of the study, I think a full spectrum cocoa extract would be the best option.

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

I will most likely begin supplementing this in the next week or so, and I will be sure to report my findings here.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle: Great find, but since we can't be sure of either the amount in each capsule or if there are other flavanols affecting the outcome of the study, I think a full spectrum cocoa extract would be the best option.

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

I will most likely begin supplementing this in the next week or so, and I will be sure to report my findings here.

 

Here is another one with a high level of mixed catechins, such as epicatechin. Very cheap, with reports on pubmed that it enhances memory.

[corb]

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

In the article I posted in the news section it says they gave the control group 50 mg and the flavanols group 900mg. This supp has 250mg so you'll need to take 4 every day. 30 packs in a box so... it's gonna run you 160$ a month if you do the same dosage.

[pamojja]

Not exactly:

 

 

37 healthy volunteers aged 50 to 69, who either drank a high-flavanol diet (900 mg of flavanols a day) or a low-flavanol diet (10 mg of flavanols a day) for three months.

 

I once calculated with PhenolExplorer that my 40 g daily dark chocolate would give me almost 90 mg flavanols. That's already 9 times as much as the low-flavanol group in this study. Though it's also 10 times less than the high-flavanol group, however, not only for 3 months, but already since many, many years..

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 27 October 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Healthy Tony]

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

In the article I posted in the news section it says they gave the control group 50 mg and the flavanols group 900mg. This supp has 250mg so you'll need to take 4 every day. 30 packs in a box so... it's gonna run you 160$ a month if you do the same dosage.

 

 

I was planning on purchasing their capsules which are $22-24 per bottle of 60. One dose of two capsules provides 250mg, so taking 4 doses per day would yield 1g/day, which would cost $88-96 per month. It is my opinion that spending ~$3/day for a few months is acceptable if the results are as good as the study suggests. Also with that being said, I would most likely take 3 doses per day rather than 4, which would bring the cost down still further.

[Healthy Tony]

Not exactly:

 

 

37 healthy volunteers aged 50 to 69, who either drank a high-flavanol diet (900 mg of flavanols a day) or a low-flavanol diet (10 mg of flavanols a day) for three months.

 

I once calculated with PhenolExplorer that my 40 g daily dark chocolate would give me almost 90 mg flavanols. That's already 9 times as much as the low-flavanol group in this study. Though it's also 10 times less than the high-flavanol group, however, not only for 3 months, but already since many, many years..

 

While chocolate supplementation is both quite delicious and flavanol rich, I wonder if it's enough to elicit the response shown in the study. Have you noticed any memory improvement, subjective or otherwise since starting your chocolate supplementation?

[PWAIN]

Maybe tht.co or True Life could start stocking this in multi gram quantities?

 

In this link:

 

http://www.futurepun...ves/008219.html

 

They quote :

 

"The epicatechin content of raw cocoa beans was in the range of 270 - 1235 mg/100 g cocoa beans."

 

Not sure I would want to eat 100 plus grams of raw cocoa beans a day tho.

[pamojja]

I wouldn't file chocolate under supplementation.

 

 

"If a participant had the memory of a typical 60-year-old at the beginning of the study, after three months that person on average had the memory of a typical 30- or 40-year-old," said Dr. Scott Small, who led the study.

 

Everyone got functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scans and also memory tests at the beginning and after the three months.

 

"When we imaged our research subjects' brains, we found noticeable improvements in the function of the dentate gyrus in those who consumed the high-cocoa-flavanol drink," said Adam Brickman, an associate professor of neuropsychology who worked on the study.

“High cocoa flavanols cause an improvement in the area of the brain that’s affected by aging,” Small said.

 

Any effect it might have had is heavily confounded by a multitude of other body and mind enhancing real supplements and diet/lifestyle changes, after a chronic disease starting 6 years ago. Debilitating me physically as well as mentally. Subjectively in respect to memory-loss I only mentioned the slowing of a rapid decline.

[PWAIN]

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

In the article I posted in the news section it says they gave the control group 50 mg and the flavanols group 900mg. This supp has 250mg so you'll need to take 4 every day. 30 packs in a box so... it's gonna run you 160$ a month if you do the same dosage.

 

 

The site only seems to say 250mg of Cocoa Flavanols of which one is epicatechin. That could mean that there is only say 30mg of epicatechin and the rest is other flavanols.

 

These are not cheap but at least you know they are talking about 200mg of epicatechin per cap (Actually it is 180mg per cap since it is a 90% purity).

 

http://www.bodyconsc...chin-x-60-caps/
 

Need 5 of those to get to 900mg or 12 days worth in a bottle.

[fairy]

How much flavanols would you expect from unsweetened cocoa powder? I found this study but is too specific: http://goo.gl/dOdafG.

[Healthy Tony]

How much flavanols would you expect from unsweetened cocoa powder? I found this study but is too specific: http://goo.gl/dOdafG.

 

Well the Epicatechin content was tested at 116.02-730.26 microg/g. To find the total flavanol content you would just add the content of the individual flavanols. But I don't think that eating ounces of cocoa powder every day is the best way to go about supplementation.

[eon]

Regarding chocolate for cognitive function...

 

This is an interesting quote from the article:

 

“The positive effect on cognitive function may be mainly mediated by an improvement in insulin sensitivity. It is yet unclear whether these benefits in cognition are a direct consequence of cocoa flavanols or a secondary effect of general improvements in cardiovascular function.”

 

http://zonadesabor.c...?omcamp=NEWSBAR

 

Wouldn't cinnamon do the same thing for insulin sensitivity as well? When is the Mars chocolate company going to release their promising chocolate drink mix? The study was funded by the Mars company, is that shady?

 

Isn't there a way scientifically to beef up the flavonol in a tiny pill instead of drinking a cup or two of hot chocolate or eating grams of its powder? I don't know what this process is called exactly. Nano? I'm sure it applies to computers but it could apply to supplements as well.

Edited by eon, 30 October 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[VP.]

Dark chocolate has 70mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin which would make it rather expensive and a high caloric way to reach the study levels. Why not try raw broad bean pods? They are cheap and have 38mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin.

http://phenol-explor.../polyphenol/125

Not as tasty as chocolate but maybe more practical for those on a limited budget.

[health_nutty]

How much flavanols would you expect from unsweetened cocoa powder? I found this study but is too specific: http://goo.gl/dOdafG.

 

I take 3 tablespoons of unsweetened hershey's powder in hot water twice a day.  I wrote Hershey's about the flavanol content of their powder and this is what they said:

 

"Thank you for telling us how much you enjoy drinking our HERSHEY'S Cocoa. We always appreciate receiving compliments!

Per your question, there is 210mg of flavanols per 1 tablespoon serving of this product. We hope this information is helpful to you."

 

6 tablespoons puts me firmly in the high flavanol catagory.  

[Kalliste]

Great news. I've been eating it for a few years though I settle for a teaspoon of powder every other day. Mostly eat it for it's purported CVD relation. There was a similar brain-rejuvenation find for Turmeric recently. I wonder what is going on in the brain, why is it responding like this?

 

Re Turmeric brain rejuvenation

http://www.india.com...n-cells-182292/

[eon]

Does it depend on whether the chocolate is 90% dark or what? I eat only 90% dark chocolate from Lindt. I've seen ones that are 100% dark chocolate from a French chocolatier. It's expensive.

 

I guess no one care much for the cocoa alternative Carob? I wonder how its flavonoid content is compared to cocoa.

 

Dark chocolate has 70mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin which would make it rather expensive and a high caloric way to reach the study levels. Why not try raw broad bean pods? They are cheap and have 38mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin.

http://phenol-explor.../polyphenol/125

Not as tasty as chocolate but maybe more practical for those on a limited budget.

 

Edited by eon, 31 October 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[eon]

pamojja, since it isn't really "needed" by the body, I agree that it should not be called "supplementation". What would be the right category for "supplementing" with cocoa?

 

I wouldn't file chocolate under supplementation.

 

 

"If a participant had the memory of a typical 60-year-old at the beginning of the study, after three months that person on average had the memory of a typical 30- or 40-year-old," said Dr. Scott Small, who led the study.

 

Everyone got functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scans and also memory tests at the beginning and after the three months.

 

"When we imaged our research subjects' brains, we found noticeable improvements in the function of the dentate gyrus in those who consumed the high-cocoa-flavanol drink," said Adam Brickman, an associate professor of neuropsychology who worked on the study.

“High cocoa flavanols cause an improvement in the area of the brain that’s affected by aging,” Small said.

 

Any effect it might have had is heavily confounded by a multitude of other body and mind enhancing real supplements and diet/lifestyle changes, after a chronic disease starting 6 years ago. Debilitating me physically as well as mentally. Subjectively in respect to memory-loss I only mentioned the slowing of a rapid decline.

 

I'm assuming when you say hershey's powder, you're speaking of the pure cocoa powder that can be found on the baking isle of the market, in other words it is a baking cocoa powder, not for drinking. Even though this same powder is used for milk chocolate powder blends, I have never seen a drinking chocolate mix sold as just plain cocoa powder. I do have the unsweetened cocoa powder from hershey's sitting on my shelf. I thought it tasted too powdery to drink even when I added sugar. I've also tried the cocoa powder alternative carob powder. That also tasted powdery and a little nutty.

 

 

How much flavanols would you expect from unsweetened cocoa powder? I found this study but is too specific: http://goo.gl/dOdafG.

 

I take 3 tablespoons of unsweetened hershey's powder in hot water twice a day.  I wrote Hershey's about the flavanol content of their powder and this is what they said:

 

"Thank you for telling us how much you enjoy drinking our HERSHEY'S Cocoa. We always appreciate receiving compliments!

Per your question, there is 210mg of flavanols per 1 tablespoon serving of this product. We hope this information is helpful to you."

 

6 tablespoons puts me firmly in the high flavanol catagory.  

 

 

[Kalliste]

 

Does it depend on whether the chocolate is 90% dark or what? I eat only 90% dark chocolate from Lindt. I've seen ones that are 100% dark chocolate from a French chocolatier. It's expensive.

 

I guess no one care much for the cocoa alternative Carob? I wonder how its flavonoid content is compared to cocoa.

 

Dark chocolate has 70mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin which would make it rather expensive and a high caloric way to reach the study levels. Why not try raw broad bean pods? They are cheap and have 38mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin.

http://phenol-explor.../polyphenol/125

Not as tasty as chocolate but maybe more practical for those on a limited budget.

 

 

You can buy the pure powder so you dont have to worry about percentages. Or am I mistaken?

[pamojja]

Since I chew the chocolate I would say eating food. Plain Cocoa powder I use in my morning cereal (grain-free, nuts and seeds mainly, sweetened with Stevia extract).

 

 

pamojja, since it isn't really "needed" by the body, I agree that it should not be called "supplementation". What would be the right category for "supplementing" with cocoa?

 

[eon]

regarding the percentages I spoke about it was regarding chocolate bars, not cocoa powders. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The chocolate bars come in different percentages of how dark it is from 45% to 100% etc.

 

 

 

Does it depend on whether the chocolate is 90% dark or what? I eat only 90% dark chocolate from Lindt. I've seen ones that are 100% dark chocolate from a French chocolatier. It's expensive.

 

I guess no one care much for the cocoa alternative Carob? I wonder how its flavonoid content is compared to cocoa.

 

Dark chocolate has 70mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin which would make it rather expensive and a high caloric way to reach the study levels. Why not try raw broad bean pods? They are cheap and have 38mg/100g of polyphenol-Epicatechin.

http://phenol-explor.../polyphenol/125

Not as tasty as chocolate but maybe more practical for those on a limited budget.

 

 

You can buy the pure powder so you dont have to worry about percentages. Or am I mistaken?

 

 

Is stevia supposed to be good now? I thought I read mixed information about it. My sweeteners remain glucose and xylitol.

 

 

Since I chew the chocolate I would say eating food. Plain Cocoa powder I use in my morning cereal (grain-free, nuts and seeds mainly, sweetened with Stevia extract).

 

 

pamojja, since it isn't really "needed" by the body, I agree that it should not be called "supplementation". What would be the right category for "supplementing" with cocoa?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

I tried 4 caps of Swanson's Acacia Catechu yesterday, and could barely sleep as my brain was buzzing, so it definitely does something. The label says one cap has 580 mg of extract, standardized to 40% catechins (catechin, epicatechin). Epicatechin is likely the memory active agent in cocoa.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 31 October 2014 - 09:14 PM.

[Area-1255]

Cocoa flavonols have ALOT of benefits...they also modulate histamine release. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....v/pubmed/871094

http://www.rlcure.com/histamine2.html

[Mr Serendipity]

I'm on the fence about cocoa. I've been having it the last few days, it's the raw variety, very bitter. At first it gave me a clear mind,a wakefulness, excitement, and a racing mind with a positive life is awesome frame. I had major insomnia that night, and had taken ionic magnesium, tryptophan, and then eventually 2, yes 2 piriton anti histamines to try and get me to sleep. Amazingly even though I ended up going to sleep at 3am, I somehow got up at 9:30am. Now for me, after taking 2 anti histamines, tryptophan and ionic magnesium, I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't get myself up at 2pm.

However it seems as though raw cocoa is making me tired like I could fall asleep any moment, but I'm not able to sleep. For example all day today it just felt I just need more sleep, I can't concentrate, but the PEA is making me positive/happy. And I felt like this all day. Yet it's now 1:30am and I can't fall asleep. Also I notice I spend about 30 minutes writing sentences.

I also found this:

www.holistichelp.net/blog/is-raw-cacao-really-health

Anyway I'm typing from my ipad, and raw cocoa has kind of fucked me up. What I'm trying to say, is be wary, this stuff might have a darker side. Start with small doses, don't think it won't do anything, because it will, it is somewhat like coffee. I'm out.

[eon]

what's your dose of PEA? This is said to be found in chocolate as well so why not just use PEA instead of grams and grams of cocoa powder? PEA does not have epicatechin? Manny, anything excessive can be bad for you.

[Mr Serendipity]

I was talking about the pea in the cocoa powder. I've never taken it separately.