128 replies to this topic

[gamesguru]

 

It appears that epicatechin is the flavanol of interest--

 

Plant-Derived Flavanol (−)Epicatechin Enhances Angiogenesis and Retention of Spatial Memory in Mice

 

There is also evidence it "enhances skeletal muscle angiogenesis and mitochondrial proliferation"--

 

(−)-EPICATECHIN IS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED ANGIOGENIC AND MITOCHONDRIAL SIGNALING IN THE HINDLIMB OF RATS SELECTIVELY BRED FOR INNATE LOW RUNNING CAPACITY

 

Epicatechin is sold as "Follidrone," but it isn't clear how much is in a capsule, as it's given as a single line with epicatechin and rice powder totaling 500 mg. Could be only 1 mg of epicatechin and 499 of rice powder.

 

Another source that says it has 150 mg epicatechin--Follidrex.

 

maybe slightly anxiogenic or excitatory, but oh well ...

Epicatechin stimulates ERK-dependent cyclic AMP response element activity and up-regulates GluR2 in cortical neurons

 

... at physiologically relevant concentrations, to stimulate phosphorylation of the transcription factor cAMP-response element binding protein (CREB), a regulator of neuronal viability and synaptic plasticity. (-)Epicatechin at 100-300 nmol/L stimulated a rapid, extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK)- and PI3K-dependent, increase in CREB phosphorylation.

At micromolar concentrations, stimulation was no longer apparent and at the highest concentration tested (30 mumol/L) (-)epicatechin was inhibitory. (-)Epicatechin also stimulated ERK and Akt phosphorylation with similar bell-shaped concentration-response characteristics. The human metabolite 3'-O-methyl-(-)epicatechin was as effective as (-)epicatechin at stimulating ERK phosphorylation, but (-)epicatechin glucuronide was inactive.

(-)Epicatechin and 3'-O-methyl-(-)epicatechin treatments (100 nmol/L) increased CRE-luciferase activity in cortical neurons in a partially ERK-dependent manner, suggesting the potential to increase CREB-mediated gene expression.

mRNA levels of the glutamate receptor subunit GluR2 increased by 60%, measured 18 h after a 15 min exposure to (-)epicatechin and this translated into an increase in GluR2 protein.

Thus, (-)epicatechin has the potential to increase CREB-regulated gene expression and increase GluR2 levels and thus modulate neurotransmission, plasticity and synaptogenesis.

[prunk]

Bump

[Kalliste]

 

 

I had been curious about trying this product. I have 2 unused bottles of it. The reason why I still haven't used it was because I was prescribed an amphetamine called Vyvanse. While the feel good effect lasts only a few hours (sometimes not even noticeable), I wonder if I should try 1 pill of acacia catechu to see how that works out. Is it stimulating or not at all? I rarely drink caffeinated drinks and have tried some sweet tea from McDonald's while on Vyvanse, seem to give a bit of a lift but I could feel something in my heart was moving unusually. It does this with caffeine intake anyway but Vyvanse is smoother than any caffeinated drinks. I'm only on 30 mg of Vyvanse, stepping up to 40 mg in a few days.

 

Well, it depends what effect you are looking for. It certainly pepped me up yesterday and allowed me to get on with my work. People drink tea and coffee for that reason.

 

The good news for me is that the one pill yesterday did not interfere with my sleep. I went to sleep at the normal time and slept my normal amount. Before I woke up, I was having an extraordinary elaborate, meticulous, and beautiful narrative dream, in which I was producing an outdoor passion play in a copse. I often do have vivid dreams, from the herbals I take, but this was like something out of Hermann Hesse. Not that I am interested in dreams, but they seem to be a touchstone for the brain effects of a supplement.

 

*

 

The clear-minded effect of yesterday's capsule lasted well into the evening, gradually dissolving in time. I got a great deal done, including looking around the internet to see see what I could find out about Acacia Catechu. Usually if I experience something I can find research and anecdotes that confirm and explain it, but this time there was almost a deafening silence about any nootropic effect of this herb--other than Turnbuckle's comments here. (There is plenty about its other effects--it is a venerable herb for mouth, throat, and skin health, for example.) Of course, catechins are known to have mentally stimulating effects, as in tea and cocoa, but Acacia Catechu is not played up on that basis, even by its proponents.

 

I did however find one slightly incoherent piece in which acacia catechu's effects were likened to piracetam:

 

http://scialert.net/....231.241&org=10

 

Antiamnesic and Antioxidant Effect of Acacia catechu-catechin in Normal, Aged and Scopolamine Challenged Cognitive Deficit Mice

 

S.M. Biradar, K.C. Tarak, V.H. Kulkarni, P.V. Habbu and D.M. Smita

 

ABSTRACT

 

In the present study Acacia catechu-Catechin (CTN) was evaluated for antiamnesic and antioxidant activity using various in vivo models. Scopolamine and natural aging were used to induce experimental amnesia in mice. The tested does of CTN (40, 20 and 10 mg kg-1) significantly enhanced the learning capacity and retention of memory in Passive Shock Avoidance and Spatial Water cage exteroceptive behavioural models. Pre-treatment with CTN restored the increased levels of lipid peroxidation and reduced glutathione due to scopolamine and natural aging. A dose dependent CTN (40, 20 and 10 mg kg-1) antioxidant activity of Thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) and reduced glutathione (GSH) in whole brain was seen, which were comparable to Standard Piracetam (400 mg kg-1). Hence, it is worthwhile to explore the potential of this Acacia catechu-Catechin in the management of Neurodegenerative disorders of the type Alzheimer’s disease.

 

*

 

Anyway, now I know that a single pill of Acacia Catechu extract does not reduce my sleep, I shall experiment with it for a while and report back later. It seems to me that a pill which could totally wake one from drowsiness in ten minutes would be a useful item to have in the toolbox.

 

 

You guys made me buy a bottle of ACE from Swansons and try it. I took it in the morning along with HCA and coffee. Found it did not interfere with my normal coffee sensation, the first two times it really made me very actionable and clear headed.

I would liken the effect to that of MitoQ though it did not make me as tireless when hitting the gym as MitoQ does.

 

I've since taken 20 pills, no sleep problems and although I don't always feel an effect I notice that I subconsciously "agree" with them. Going to continue taking them twice or thrice a week.

 

[jack black]

So I got some raw, unprocessed cacao powder from Amazon. In flavor, texture, smell and appearance, it is indistinguishable from the powdered unsweetened cocoa powder you can buy at any supermarket. The stuff I buy from Amazon costs about twice as much per ounce, plus shipping.

 

I can't help wondering... Is someone re-packaging ordinary cocoa powder, then fraudulently selling it as "raw" "unprocessed" "organic" and so on, at a huge profit?

 

Another theory is that the stuff you get in the grocery store is also raw and unprocessed, but not advertised that way.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Cheers.

 

this post made me realize i has unopened "cacao/raw cocoa" capsules from Swanson i purchased on clearance. i opened one capsule and compared to Hershey's Cocoa (100% cacao) powder. similar appearance and taste.

 

this type of cocoa is Dutch processed by alkali that destroys most polyphenols:  https://en.wikipedia...ocess_chocolate

 

 

One study determined that 60% of natural cocoa's original antioxidants were destroyed by even light dutching, and 90% were destroyed by heavy dutching.^[5] A new study found “...protection against synaptic deficits by Lavado cocoa extract, but not Dutched cocoa extract... since much of the polyphenol content is lost by the high alkalinity in the Dutching process."^[6] However, natural cocoa has such high levels of antioxidants that even a 60% reduction leaves it high on the list of antioxidant-rich foods.^{[citation needed]}

advertising this as "raw cocoa" is misleading at least. it's only raw in the sense of "not cooked or boiled."

[ironfistx]

I found this thread now.  I think I should stop eating the serving containing 25g of this Trader Joe's chocolate.  I eat some every day.

[ironfistx]

I'm going to write them now and see what they say.

[ironfistx]

The main email

 

Howdy,

Your 85% dark chocolate bar is delicious.  But, I read this article that said it contains harmful levels of lead and cadmium.  Is this factual?  http://www.asyousow....admium-in-food/

 

Specific response:

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us. To be clear, we will not offer any products we feel are unsafe.  Ever.  We have no reason to believe our chocolate products are unsafe.

Admittedly, this type of news can be frightening.  Given that this matter isn't specific to Trader Joe's, and also involves national brands and other retailers' products, we are investigating several aspects of chocolate related to supply chain and "finished goods" products.

The National Confectioners Association describes the situation: "Heavy metals such as lead and cadmium are naturally-occurring elements found in the Earth's crust. Since these elements are present naturally in the soil and water where plants are grown, there are unavoidable traces occurring in virtually all foods, including fish, meats, grains, fruits and vegetables. Like these other foods, cocoa beans, one of the main ingredients in chocolate, may also contain small amounts of heavy metals depending on the natural conditions in which it is grown."

Again, we will not offer any products we feel are unsafe.  Ever.
 
Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

Note they didn't really say it doesn't have lead and cadmium.

[jack black]

i'm curious why those heavy metals are concentrated in cacao.

on the other hand, this is not very different from arsenic in rice or mercury in seafood.

[prunk]

The main email

Howdy,

Your 85% dark chocolate bar is delicious. But, I read this article that said it contains harmful levels of lead and cadmium. Is this factual? http://www.asyousow....admium-in-food/

Specific response:

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us. To be clear, we will not offer any products we feel are unsafe. Ever. We have no reason to believe our chocolate products are unsafe.

Admittedly, this type of news can be frightening. Given that this matter isn't specific to Trader Joe's, and also involves national brands and other retailers' products, we are investigating several aspects of chocolate related to supply chain and "finished goods" products.

The National Confectioners Association describes the situation: "Heavy metals such as lead and cadmium are naturally-occurring elements found in the Earth's crust. Since these elements are present naturally in the soil and water where plants are grown, there are unavoidable traces occurring in virtually all foods, including fish, meats, grains, fruits and vegetables. Like these other foods, cocoa beans, one of the main ingredients in chocolate, may also contain small amounts of heavy metals depending on the natural conditions in which it is grown."

Again, we will not offer any products we feel are unsafe. Ever.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Note they didn't really say it doesn't have lead and cadmium.

If later something comes up, they can always say but we didn't feel it, sorry