128 replies to this topic

[eon]

Turnbuckle, I'd have to contact the chocolate maker to find out where they sourced their cocoa from then.

[eon]

the swanson product has 580 mg but 40% catechins (epicatechin, catechin), so that's 252mg per capsule, is that a good buy? The product is under $3 which has 60 capsules, how much does one take a day?

 

Seems like Swanson is the only one I could easily find selling such product. Turnbuckle, at least you think it's potent, considering someone on this thread thinks Swanson products are suspect due to their cheap products.

 

 

Turnbuckle: Great find, but since we can't be sure of either the amount in each capsule or if there are other flavanols affecting the outcome of the study, I think a full spectrum cocoa extract would be the best option.

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

I will most likely begin supplementing this in the next week or so, and I will be sure to report my findings here.

 

Here is another one with a high level of mixed catechins, such as epicatechin. Very cheap, with reports on pubmed that it enhances memory.

 

 

 

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

In the article I posted in the news section it says they gave the control group 50 mg and the flavanols group 900mg. This supp has 250mg so you'll need to take 4 every day. 30 packs in a box so... it's gonna run you 160$ a month if you do the same dosage.

 

 

Edited by eon, 01 January 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

the swanson product has 580 mg but 40% catechins (epicatechin, catechin), so that's 252mg per capsule, is that a good buy? The product is under $3 which has 60 capsules, how much does one take a day?

 

Seems like Swanson is the only one I could easily find selling such product. Turnbuckle, at least you think it's potent, considering someone on this thread thinks Swanson products are suspect due to their cheap products.

 

 

 

When they dropped the price I bought ten bottles, thinking it might go back up. I started with 4 capsules in one dose, but that seemed too much so now I'm taking 2 a day. It definitely boosts mental function.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 January 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[mindpatch]

 

How much flavanols would you expect from unsweetened cocoa powder? I found this study but is too specific: http://goo.gl/dOdafG.

 

I take 3 tablespoons of unsweetened hershey's powder in hot water twice a day.  I wrote Hershey's about the flavanol content of their powder and this is what they said:

 

"Thank you for telling us how much you enjoy drinking our HERSHEY'S Cocoa. We always appreciate receiving compliments!

Per your question, there is 210mg of flavanols per 1 tablespoon serving of this product. We hope this information is helpful to you."

 

6 tablespoons puts me firmly in the high flavanol catagory.  

 

My own "bulletproof" coffee recipe:  freshly brewed coffee, heaping spoon of unsweetened cocoa, spoonful of coconut oil, almond milk and a little bit of agave syrup.  

[eon]

OK I will try it soon myself. I read on wiki regarding catechin sources and prune juice was in there so I decided to buy one at Walmart, 100% prune juice. Considering it's the only ingredient, I'm surprised it has little vitamin C but high in iron. I could feel something working in my brain as if I just took a nootropic but I only drank the juice.

 

 

 

the swanson product has 580 mg but 40% catechins (epicatechin, catechin), so that's 252mg per capsule, is that a good buy? The product is under $3 which has 60 capsules, how much does one take a day?

 

Seems like Swanson is the only one I could easily find selling such product. Turnbuckle, at least you think it's potent, considering someone on this thread thinks Swanson products are suspect due to their cheap products.

 

 

 

When they dropped the price I bought ten bottles, thinking it might go back up. I started with 4 capsules in one dose, but that seemed too much so now I'm taking 2 a day. It definitely boosts mental function.

 

 

[chrisp2]

I've been thinking of getting some CocoaVia...  Somewhat expensive - BUT for the cocoa flavanols specifically, it's actually the cheapest route unless you're ok with cadmium.  (I'm currently using Hershey's baking cocoa, so I'm getting my fair share of cadmium according to ConsumerLab)

 

So anyway...  The Swanson (Acacia Catechu) )product of course is not cocoa, but is tempting with the bargain basement price.

[eon]

I would think it's all about the catechin or flavanols not necessarily about being a cocoa source.

 

I've been thinking of getting some CocoaVia...  Somewhat expensive - BUT for the cocoa flavanols specifically, it's actually the cheapest route unless you're ok with cadmium.  (I'm currently using Hershey's baking cocoa, so I'm getting my fair share of cadmium according to ConsumerLab)

 

So anyway...  The Swanson (Acacia Catechu) )product of course is not cocoa, but is tempting with the bargain basement price.

 

Considering acacia catechu belong in the listed of psychoactive plants containing DMT (allegedly the leaf?), what do you all think of Acacia Gum (Acacia senegal & Acacia seyal)? NOW sells them as Acacia Fiber, not sure it has catechins but perhaps it's more of a fiber source than catechin. Those are also listed as having DMT in their leaves (allegedly).

 

I'm a bit familiar with the hallucinogenic DMT, while it is not active without using an MAO, it may be possible for it to have some effects that is not hallucinogenic, perhaps antidepressant effects and so on.

[eon]

by the way, what makes some cacao labeled "raw" and others not? What makes something raw? So when a chocolate is in a "form" (circular, triangular, etc) does that mean it's no longer raw as it has been "cooked" into liquid then produce it into final form? My chocolate's ingredient is simply chocolate liquor. It is 100% dark chocolate, unsweetened. No mention of it being "raw" so I'm assuming it is "cooked" considering they are in round pieces size of a nickel coin.

[nickthird]

I read about this when it was published awhile back.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall all they found in the study was that the recall time improved and the improvement was around ~second or less (even worse, I think they just tested the response time, which doesn't indicate recall time directly)? Is there any direct in vivo human evidence for cocoa flavanols enhancing recall or improving storage of memory at all?

[eon]

"Agricultural researchers at Texas A and M University documented that methamphetamine (among other phenethylamines and amphetamines) was naturally produced by both Acacia berlandieri and Acacia rigidula Benth. known as "blackbrush".

 

https://www.erowid.o...es_timeline.php

 

I wonder if Acacia Catechu would have any trace amphetamine?

 

I'd prefer to go the natural route if in fact there is such a thing as natural amphetamine or else time to get the prescription route.

[HappyShoe]

Turnbuckle: Great find, but since we can't be sure of either the amount in each capsule or if there are other flavanols affecting the outcome of the study, I think a full spectrum cocoa extract would be the best option.

 

One of the best looking ones that I have found is this:

http://www.cocoavia.com/

 

I will most likely begin supplementing this in the next week or so, and I will be sure to report my findings here.

 

They put all sorts of garbage in this stuff though, and it is expensive.

[HappyShoe]

by the way, what makes some cacao labeled "raw" and others not? What makes something raw? So when a chocolate is in a "form" (circular, triangular, etc) does that mean it's no longer raw as it has been "cooked" into liquid then produce it into final form? My chocolate's ingredient is simply chocolate liquor. It is 100% dark chocolate, unsweetened. No mention of it being "raw" so I'm assuming it is "cooked" considering they are in round pieces size of a nickel coin.

 

This is a good point. A lot of cocoa is actually processed, and no longer retains it's benefits. Unfortunately Mars Company has an irritating stranglehold on the only known extraction process that is economically viable to extract the flavanols from cocoa.
Then there's people like me, who can't take raw cocoa, because it has so much iron in it, and I unfortunately have hemochromatosis, which makes it dangerous for me to supplement with. =(

If anyone knows of a viable way to supplement with cocoa which retains all active compounds, yet somehow lacks iron... Please let me know.

[eon]

so cocoavia is a Mars company? Not sure how iron could be removed from cocoa, I don't think it's that much to begin with unless you eat a whole handful of it. Also, the major brands aren't the only ones producing quality chocolates. I bought this one:

 

http://www.santabarb...cao-medallions/

[HappyShoe]

It is an extremely rich source. 30-50% DV for the average serving size for gaining a supplemental benefit. That is too much for me, since I absorb it close to 4 times better than the average person.

[Debaser]

Does anybody have any idea about the flavanol content of cacao nibs? I would have thought they're about as unprocessed and raw as you can get, other than directly eating the bean off the tree. This is the stage before you get cocoa powder, basically the raw sun-dried beans are cracked open. They haven't even been ground up. Or have I just bought into the marketing hype? I like them anyway, and they give quite a theobromine and caffeine hit until you get used to them.

Edited by Debaser, 01 February 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[eon]

I seem to have found a "trick" on how to eat 100% pure dark chocolate. I eat a handful/mouthful and shove a teaspoon of glucose at the same time, it lightly sweetens it to tolerable taste and doesn't taste like drinking black coffee (no sugar). Even this way the sugars are still less than what you'd get from chocolate bars, considering a teaspoon of glucose is only about 4-5 grams of carbs, the chocolate bars tend to have more than twice that amount. Plus the glucose gets utilized quicker unlike the sugars used in those chocolate bars are generally "table sugars".

[eon]

I've always wondered how much magnesium is in a serving of chocolate? Is it only trace amounts? They never list this in the packaging. I notice something that when I eat chocolate and take a magnesium supplement I do not feel as great as when I just eat chocolate and NOT supplement with magnesium, is it because I already have enough magnesium with my chocolate intake? 

[Metagene]

"Agricultural researchers at Texas A and M University documented that methamphetamine (among other phenethylamines and amphetamines) was naturally produced by both Acacia berlandieri and Acacia rigidula Benth. known as "blackbrush".

https://www.erowid.o...es_timeline.php

I wonder if Acacia Catechu would have any trace amphetamine?

I'd prefer to go the natural route if in fact there is such a thing as natural amphetamine or else time to get the prescription route.

I'm highly skeptical of those claims. There is thread on DMT nexus that links to a excellent blog post on both Acacia species.

http://sacredcacti.com/blog/acacia/

[malbecman]

 It's probably the theobromine that is doing this.   It's a pretty strong stimulant and some people are more susceptible to it than others.   I tried cocoa nibs for awhile to get their health benefits (its one of the less processed forms) and a couple of tblspns ground up and made into a cocoa like drink would get me pretty wound up.   Different buzz than caffeine (I know that one pretty well as I am a wretched coffee addict).

 

Ideally, I'd like to find a relatively inexpensive form of pure epicatechin.

 

 

Cocoa seems to give me terrible insomnia, even when taken in the early morning. I can't imagine my memory getting better with no sleep...

 

[eon]

turnbuckle are you ok with your high dose acacia catechu?

[eon]

Not sure if the small amount of milk in the Aldi brand of hot chocolate is making me feel sick, so I'm looking for other hot chocolate powders that has no milk. Any suggestions?

 

I liked what I had from Dagoba but they are expensive and not easy to find. I had to go to an organic market to get it. 

 

What do you guys think of this powder:

 

http://www.santabarb...d-cocoa-powder/

 

Is paying $70 for an 11 pound cocoa powder a good price?

[Adaptogen]

Not sure if the small amount of milk in the Aldi brand of hot chocolate is making me feel sick, so I'm looking for other hot chocolate powders that has no milk. Any suggestions?

 

I liked what I had from Dagoba but they are expensive and not easy to find. I had to go to an organic market to get it. 

 

What do you guys think of this powder:

 

http://www.santabarb...d-cocoa-powder/

 

Is paying $70 for an 11 pound cocoa powder a good price?

 

if you're ingesting for health properties, then you want raw cacao powder - not the alkalized dutch cocoa powder. That price is pretty good, but not amazing. there are like 10 different companies on amazon selling raw organic cacao powder for ~$10/lb.

 

 a tablespoon of raw cacao powder,  a dash of cayenne and cinnamon, cane sugar, and almond milk makes a pretty formidable, healthy hot chocolate.

Edited by Adaptogen, 12 February 2015 - 10:39 PM.

[eon]

For clarification, alkalized mean it isn't raw? Would the raw cacao product be labeled as such? I've yet to find one. I did buy something from Walmart from Nestle. It's simply "Cocoa" for baking. The sole ingredient is 100% cocoa. I would assume this is raw cacao considering it is for baking (in other words you can't bake or you shouldn't bake anything "cooked", therefore this must be still "raw" which is why it is for baking). 

 

Edited by eon, 13 February 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[serp777]

What is the effective upper bound of dosage?

 

And I feel like the results of this study are skewed because Cocoa solution they use probably has caffeine, and caffeine I believe is known to enhance memory and concentration.

[nickthird]

I actually had this study purchased on readcube but I can't save to PDF.

 

They basically made up their own test to measure memory performance. Tested it on undergrads, saw the bell curve, then tested on people with different ages. The main measurement on the test is what they assumed to be related to recall response time, although it could equally be regarded to the physical inability of older people to click fast or their reduced muscle mass.

 

The end result was an improvement of ~600ms or 1/2 a second on the measured time, corresponding to an improvement by three decades of life on this test.

 

Also the population is kind of funny, its ~75% women and the mean education is ~19 years. I guess they had a lot of female professors around.

Attached Files

•  study1.png   450.86KB   2 downloads
•  study2.png   20.87KB   2 downloads

[eon]

Cacao nibs vs. 100% dark chocolate, which is actually better? I have never had cacao nibs before so I can't compare right now. I'm currently eating 100% dark chocolates (unsweetened) and I like it. It makes me happy stack with fish oil and peanuts. How is everyone liking cacao nibs compared to just chocolates?

 

Cacao Nibs: Even Better For You Than Dark Chocolate

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_3695571.html

 

So the nibs is the actual beans? I'd be eating the beans? The chocolate is the paste of the beans? Is it not interchangeable then?

Edited by eon, 23 February 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[jillin]

http://www.newscient...ne-amounts.html

[eon]

According to the article:

 

 

"To find out, his team instructed 19 volunteers aged 50 to 69 to drink 900 milligrams a day of powdered cocoa flavanols mixed with water or milk. This dosage was spread over two drinks each day. Another 18 people had to drink a similar beverage that contained just 10 milligrams of the compounds.

 

Before and after the three months, people in both groups underwent fMRI scans. Comparing the scans revealed that after the regime, the high-dose flavanol drinkers had about 20 per cent more blood flowing to a particular section of their hippocampi, called the dentate gyrus, than they did before. The high-dose drinkers also had about this much more blood flow to the dentate gyrus than the low-flavanol group. Intriguingly, this region has been linked to age-related memory decline in people."

 

First of all, what is a "powdered cocoa flavanols"? Did they mean to say "cocoa powder" which has the flavanols or is this a completely different compound than just 100% pure cocoa powder? I drink pure cocoa powder which is generally intended for baking. 

 

Another thing; 900mg isn't much! That's like half a teaspoon! That's under 1 gram! I could swallow that with one gulp! I take 3-6 grams of vitamin C powders daily and 3 grams (3000mg) is about the size of a teaspoon-full. Cocoa powder are heavier powder so my estimate is 900mg is about half a teaspoon. I drink 1 tablespoon a day of hot cocoa drink. I would estimate this to be about 2x-3x the amount used in the study, unless the study was using pure "cocoa flavanols"? Whatever that is...

 

http://www.newscient...ne-amounts.html

 

Edited by eon, 27 February 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[Fenix_]

I recently discovered that cocoa powder tastes quite good mixed with instant coffee and xylitol. This combo will mask the taste of most other supplements even other herbs like bacopa. Try using a blender bottle.

[eon]

Different brands have different taste, anyone else notice? I notice the Hershey's brand has that distinct flavor, the powder itself looks reddish brown, not sure if that determines good quality. The Aldi brand seems a bit "dry" and just plain brown, there is no "strong taste" to it. The Nestle brand is about the same. Those are the 3 brands I've tried as far as 100% cacao (cocoa powder) for baking, unsweetened.