128 replies to this topic

[VerdeGo]

By sheer irony, I was browsing Amazon earlier in the day looking at cocoa/cacao powder. I started reading through the reviews, only to learn that ConsumerLab found high levels of cadmium in a large amount of these powders and chocolate products, a lot higher than is healthy for a kid to consume. I apologize if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, as I don't have time to read through every response. But buyer beware.

 

https://www.consumer...ocoa-flavanols/

 

We discovered that many products are contaminated with high amounts of cadmium — a toxic heavy metal, and/or lead. Eight products exceeded the limits. Some also contain small amounts of lead.

The other important thing we tested for was flavanols. While some products were rich in flavanols, several provide only tiny amounts. For example, among cocoa powder supplements, several contained just 3 or 4 mg of flavanols, while capsules of another brand contained about ten times this amount. Among dark chocolate bars, we found that you can't tell the amount of flavanols based on the % cocoa (or cacao). In fact, we discovered that some bars with 72% cocoa had more flavanols per gram than products with 85% and 90% cocoa. Similarly, we found that you could spend more that $7 to get a dose of flavanols which cost only about 50 cents or less from some other products.

[eon]

I'm not sure about the types of websites that works like Consumer Reports etc. as they are also pay-to-play, meaning their business is about letting everyone know what sucks and what doesn't, for a fee. 

 

So what doesn't suck is the question? LOL.

 

I just go by experience and if I liked the flavor and the appearance, I think it's potent.

Edited by eon, 08 April 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[VerdeGo]

Here is a list I found. Just follow the link, and you'll see which brands to avoid. I don't believe this is a complete list, just a list showing commercially available chocolate products. I'll take my chocolate without lead, please. 

 

http://www.asyousow....admium-in-food/

1. We filed notices with 16 manufacturers, including See's, Mars, Hershey, Lindt,Godiva, Whole Foods, and others, for failing to provide required warnings to consumers that their chocolate products contain lead, cadmium, or both. Lead and cadmium were found in popular chocolate products.

[gamesguru]

welp, time to ditch TJ's pound plus

[eon]

Funny how some candy bars lack cadmium is it because it isn't pure cocoa powder or only tiny amounts of cocoa is really in it compared to using a tablespoon of cocoa powder?

 

The list are mostly for candy bars. Something I don't eat. I would think the sugars in these bars would harm you first than cadmium.

 

Would you say cacao nibs is safer than powders?

 

 

 

Here is a list I found. Just follow the link, and you'll see which brands to avoid. I don't believe this is a complete list, just a list showing commercially available chocolate products. I'll take my chocolate without lead, please. 

 

http://www.asyousow....admium-in-food/

1. We filed notices with 16 manufacturers, including See's, Mars, Hershey, Lindt,Godiva, Whole Foods, and others, for failing to provide required warnings to consumers that their chocolate products contain lead, cadmium, or both. Lead and cadmium were found in popular chocolate products.

 

 

[Metagene]

 

"Agricultural researchers at Texas A and M University documented that methamphetamine (among other phenethylamines and amphetamines) was naturally produced by both Acacia berlandieri and Acacia rigidula Benth. known as "blackbrush".

 

https://www.erowid.o...es_timeline.php

 

I wonder if Acacia Catechu would have any trace amphetamine?

 

I'd prefer to go the natural route if in fact there is such a thing as natural amphetamine or else time to get the prescription route.

 

 

^not to derail but

 

An amphetamine isomer whose efficacy and safety in humans has never been studied, β-methylphenylethylamine (BMPEA), is found in multiple dietary supplements

 

The amphetamine isomer β-methylphenylethylamine (BMPEA) was first synthesized in the early 1930s, but its efficacy and safety in humans has not been studied. Recently, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) detected BMPEA in dietary supplements labelled as containing Acacia rigidula. Over a year after the FDA reported its findings, we analyzed Acacia rigidula dietary supplements to determine if BMPEA had been removed. Supplements were analyzed using liquid chromatography-quadrupole time-of-flight mass spectrometry. Diluted methanolic extract from each supplement was run three times and each data set obtained was analyzed using Agilent MassHunter Qualitative Analysis. The presence of BMPEA was confirmed by accurate mass, retention time and mass spectra match against a reference standard. Quantification of BMPEA was determined using an eight-point calibration curve of spiked standard to a matrix blank. Twenty-one brands of Acacia rigidula supplements were analyzed. More than half (11/21; 52.4%) of the Acacia rigidula supplement brands contained BMPEA. The stimulant was present at quantities such that consumers following recommended maximum daily servings would consume a maximum of 93.7 mg of BMPEA per day. Consumers of Acacia rigidula supplements may be exposed to pharmacological dosages of an amphetamine isomer that lacks evidence of safety in humans. The FDA should immediately warn consumers about BMPEA and take aggressive enforcement action to eliminate BMPEA in dietary supplements. Copyright © 2015 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

 

http://onlinelibrary...2/dta.1793/full

[VerdeGo]

 

Would you say cacao nibs is safer than powders?

 

 

 

 

I think it entirely depends on the manufacturer/brand. I dug up another site, and I believe these are some of the findings from Consumer Labs on the cleanest bars, powders, and nibs versus the worst offenders. I hope this helps you make up your mind on which brand to use.

 

http://www.rodalenew...ocolate-cadmium

 

According to ConsumerLab, several major brands of chocolate nibs and powders contain unnerving amounts of cadmium and lead.

 

Cleanest Bars, Powders, and Nibs
• Baker's Unsweetened Baking Chocolate Bar, All Natural 100 percent cocoa
• Endangered Species Chocolate, Natural Dark Chocolate with 88 percent cocoa (Non-GMO, gluten-Free)
• Ghirardelli Chocolate Intense Dark Twilight Delight, 72 percent cacao
• Green & Black Organic 85 percent Cacao Bar
• Hershey's Special Dark Chocolate Bar
• Lindt Excellence 90 percent Cocoa Supreme Dark
• Trader Joe's 72 percent Cacao Dark Chocolate
• CocoVia powder
• Navitas Naturals Cacao Nibs*

 

*A quick note on Navitas Naturals: ConsumerLabs points out that, while it has the highest amount of flavonoids, it does go over the WHO recommendation for cadmium, though just slightly. ConsumerLabs suggests eating less than the recommended serving, reducing consumption to half a tablespoon. You'll still get 200 mg of flavonoids, but limit your cadmium exposure.

 

Stuff to avoid:

 

Sunfood Raw Cacao

With 1.52 mcg of cadmium per gram of chocolate, Sunfood Raw Cacao had the highest concentration of cadmium in the bunch. Plus, this chocolate also ranked No. 3 for highest amount of lead.

Trader Joe's Cocoa Powder Unsweetened
Seems like you get what you pay for with this one. One of the cheapest cocoa powders, Trader Joe's Cocoa Powder had the second highest concentration of cadmium (1.3 mcg per gram). Plus, ConsumerLabs points out it was also below average for flavonoid concentration.

Nestle Tollhouse Cocoa
At 1.3 micrograms of cadmium per gram of chocolate, Nestle Toll House cocoa powder has more than the WHO's recommended exposure limit. Plus, it also contained some lead. 

It's Not Just Cadmium Either

Ghiradelli 100% Unsweetened Cocoa
This was the only cocoa powder that passed the test for cadmium with flying colors. Unfortunately, researchers found a small amount of lead. Also, this powder had the lowest antioxidants of the cocoa powders tested. 

[gamesguru]

Why does your first link say

Trader Joe’s Pound Plus, 72% Cacao Dark Chocolate Lead

Then in your second post, according to the same consumer reports, Trader Joe's 72 percent Cacao Dark Chocolate is clean.

[eon]

I don't get why any company would "allegedly" sell something high in "lead" when they have so much money they can have it removed and sell a "clean" product. Regardless, I like my hot cocoa with lead. LOL. It gives that metallic taste common in baked goods (which mostly uses aluminum ingredient to give such "taste"). 

Edited by eon, 10 April 2015 - 06:03 PM.

[eon]

just got some cacao nibs and tried a dab of it. Is this supposed to be better than just cacao powder? Not sure how since don't they both come from the same bean? The cacao nibs might be a good snack but the powder is a good drink so I guess they serve their purpose either way right?

[eon]

anyone here notice faster heartbeat than usual when drinking cocoa powder but without the jitters that coffee brings? I notice this since I've been drinking it daily now, about a teaspoon or 5 g once or twice daily. How much caffeine does cocoa have, is it less than coffee but more than green tea? My prescription amphetamine Vyvanse (10mg) has a warning to watch my caffeine intake which they listed as cocoa as well.

[VerdeGo]

You may not want to mix the two then. Cacao is very stimulating and addicitve, and it's poisonous to animals in general. Theobromine is a stimulant found in the beans. There seems to be a lot of warnings popping up online about liver and kidney toxicity with frequent use. I have an unopened bag in my kitchen, and I still can't bring myself to try it.

Perhaps taking anandamide, the "bliss molecule" found in nibs, by itself would be more rewarding and safer? I can't seem to find a source for it online though.

[eon]

so anandamide is in cacao nibs but not cocoa? How did that happen? what made "nibs" special? I thought both nibs and cocoa powder came from the same source: beans. Does nibs not have theobromine?

 

I bought cacao nibs on amazon. Were you looking for anandamide as powders of it?

 

This product is marketed as anandamide but it's stacked with other ingredients:

 

http://www.zebraorga...tion-p-774.html

 

Ingredients:

Raw Cacao, Tocos, Mucuna Pruriens Extract, Cordyceps Mushroom, Reishi, Mushroom, Shilajit Extract, Suma, Maca, Chlorella, Moringa, Rose Petals, Ashwagandha Extract, Cardamom, Turmeric, Cayenne, Black Pepper, Himalayan Salt Crystals.

[eon]

I like chocolate but does anyone else feel they are unproductive when drinking it? Maybe it's just me, maybe my dose is high. I get a little bit depressed here and there. Isn't caffeine a depressant? Chocolate bars make me feel fine since it isn't pure but the cocoa powder I turn into hot cocoa drink seem to be potent in making me unproductive and too laid back. Is it the "bliss" molecule in it that makes one be at "bliss" but unproductive? I don't feel too bad or too good. It isn't euphoric. It seems as if I need to be in a euphoric state to get things done. This happens when I use kava. I've also eaten cacao nibs then drank a hot cocoa drink thinking just because cacao is OTC and legal it won't have any effect on me but I felt sedated and unmotivated but didn't feel too good or too bad. If anything that made me feel bad was that I didn't get much done.

[fntms]

anyone here notice faster heartbeat than usual when drinking cocoa powder but without the jitters that coffee brings? I notice this since I've been drinking it daily now, about a teaspoon or 5 g once or twice daily. How much caffeine does cocoa have, is it less than coffee but more than green tea? My prescription amphetamine Vyvanse (10mg) has a warning to watch my caffeine intake which they listed as cocoa as well.

Maybe your heart rate goes up because of a lower blood pressure?

[VerdeGo]

I'm pretty sure the same ingredients are in both nibs and powder, but I could be mistaken. If there was a way to access the cacao fruit and gain all the health benefits and not the detriments, like the natives do, then I'd be all for that. 

 

Anandamide by itself sure sounds interesting (wikipedia): Anandamide, also known as N-arachidonoylethanolamine or AEA, is an endogenous cannabinoid neurotransmitter. The name is taken from the Sanskrit word (and Hinduistic religious term) ananda, which means "joy, bliss, delight", and amide.^[1][2] It is synthesized from N-arachidonoyl phosphatidylethanolamine by multiple pathways.^[3] It is degraded primarily by the fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) enzyme, which converts anandamide into ethanolamine and arachidonic acid. As such, inhibitors of FAAH lead to elevated anandamide levels and are being pursued for therapeutic use.

 

But I wonder if it also increases blood pressure like PEA. Has anyone tried anandamide by itself?

 

And as far as that product with anan in it, what the hell? With everything in that concoction, you wouldn't know what was causing what, and I'd probably admit myself to the ER in the process. I also see no isolated anandamide in the product, just the "raw cacao" listing: Ingredients:

Raw Cacao, Tocos, Mucuna Pruriens Extract, Cordyceps Mushroom, Reishi, Mushroom, Shilajit Extract, Suma, Maca, Chlorella, Moringa, Rose Petals, Ashwagandha Extract, Cardamom, Turmeric, Cayenne, Black Pepper, Himalayan Salt Crystals.

[VerdeGo]

Apparently Yale is sponsoring a study on FAAH inhibitors treating cannabis withdrawal by inhibiting the breakdown of the body's own marijuana-like cannabinoid, anandamide. Unlike THC it breaks down readily in the brain. So instead of supplementing anan, they are looking at ways in stopping the breakdown of this "bliss molecule." 

 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT01618656

[eon]

anyone else notice any cocoa withdrawal if not drinking a cup for a day or 2? It isn't as bad as coffee withdrawal but I don't drink coffee anymore which is why I drink cocoa. Just checking to see if anyone else feel unusual when not having a cup of cocoa.

[eon]

I may be laying off caffeine entirely considering I'd be on Vyvanse. I wonder what non caffeinated product has the benefits of cocoa? I think we talked about acacia catechu containing catechin, is that something to consider as far as getting the benefits of cocoa without the caffeinism?

[gamesguru]

Japanese tea, though the decaffeination process may destroy antioxidants, contains epicatechin at about 100mg/L [see table 1 of the attached study, "EC"]

 

So nevermind, you'd have to drink two gallons of strong tea daily for 800mg.

 

 

Attached Files

•  1-s2.0-S0021967396007649-main.pdf   229.91KB   0 downloads

[Gerrans]

 

 

the swanson product has 580 mg but 40% catechins (epicatechin, catechin), so that's 252mg per capsule, is that a good buy? The product is under $3 which has 60 capsules, how much does one take a day?

 

Seems like Swanson is the only one I could easily find selling such product. Turnbuckle, at least you think it's potent, considering someone on this thread thinks Swanson products are suspect due to their cheap products.

 

 

 

When they dropped the price I bought ten bottles, thinking it might go back up. I started with 4 capsules in one dose, but that seemed too much so now I'm taking 2 a day. It definitely boosts mental function.

 

 

When I read Turnbuckle's comments on Swanson's Acacia Catechu extract, I bought a bottle, because I find Bournville drinking chocolate mildly stimulating, even though it is Dutch processed, and wanted to know if catechins are a factor in that for me. To my surprise--because I can rarely replicate anything I read on here--my initial experience with it was the same as Turnbuckle's, because 4 caps ruined my sleep two days running, and 2 caps were little better. After which I gave it up--no one needs that.

 

However, a month ago I had to sit up all night with a friend in crisis, and, wondering how I was going to get through my day's work, I took a couple of the acacia catechu caps. They gave me an almost immediate pick up that lasted through the day. I did sleep well that night because I was sleep deprived.

 

This afternoon, I found myself feeling groggy, and so I took one cap, which I dissolved under my tongue. I washed the taste away with a mug of tea (but tea and coffee do not discernibly affect my wakefulness usually, presumably because I am adapted to them). Within ten minutes, it was as if I had woken right up: I felt almost a pure clarity in my head. Shortly after that, I came over slightly hot, but I do not know if that was connected.

 

*

 

I have taken so little of this stuff that I cannot say whether it affects my cognition. But it has a waking effect on me, that is for sure. And that means a cognitive effect by default, I suppose, insofar as it enabled me to mentally revive. I will have to see whether my sleep is affected tonight. If so, I may use just half a cap in future as a wake-up pill, and see how sleep is later after that.

 

I should add that I have been experimenting with various herbs and supplements for the last few years, and very few have any effect on me at all (which is OK, I think it means I am probably healthy and do not require adaptogenics). Nothing at all has had such an immediate effect on me as this, which I had assumed would be another of Swanson's obscurer products usually the same for me as eating capsules full of dust.

 

I do not know what to do with this stuff yet; but I wanted to report on something that had a noticeable effect on me and to duplicate Turnbuckle's experience.
 

[eon]

I had been curious about trying this product. I have 2 unused bottles of it. The reason why I still haven't used it was because I was prescribed an amphetamine called Vyvanse. While the feel good effect lasts only a few hours (sometimes not even noticeable), I wonder if I should try 1 pill of acacia catechu to see how that works out. Is it stimulating or not at all? I rarely drink caffeinated drinks and have tried some sweet tea from McDonald's while on Vyvanse, seem to give a bit of a lift but I could feel something in my heart was moving unusually. It does this with caffeine intake anyway but Vyvanse is smoother than any caffeinated drinks. I'm only on 30 mg of Vyvanse, stepping up to 40 mg in a few days.

 

 

 

 

 

the swanson product has 580 mg but 40% catechins (epicatechin, catechin), so that's 252mg per capsule, is that a good buy? The product is under $3 which has 60 capsules, how much does one take a day?

 

Seems like Swanson is the only one I could easily find selling such product. Turnbuckle, at least you think it's potent, considering someone on this thread thinks Swanson products are suspect due to their cheap products.

 

 

 

When they dropped the price I bought ten bottles, thinking it might go back up. I started with 4 capsules in one dose, but that seemed too much so now I'm taking 2 a day. It definitely boosts mental function.

 

 

When I read Turnbuckle's comments on Swanson's Acacia Catechu extract, I bought a bottle, because I find Bournville drinking chocolate mildly stimulating, even though it is Dutch processed, and wanted to know if catechins are a factor in that for me. To my surprise--because I can rarely replicate anything I read on here--my initial experience with it was the same as Turnbuckle's, because 4 caps ruined my sleep two days running, and 2 caps were little better. After which I gave it up--no one needs that.

 

However, a month ago I had to sit up all night with a friend in crisis, and, wondering how I was going to get through my day's work, I took a couple of the acacia catechu caps. They gave me an almost immediate pick up that lasted through the day. I did sleep well that night because I was sleep deprived.

 

This afternoon, I found myself feeling groggy, and so I took one cap, which I dissolved under my tongue. I washed the taste away with a mug of tea (but tea and coffee do not discernibly affect my wakefulness usually, presumably because I am adapted to them). Within ten minutes, it was as if I had woken right up: I felt almost a pure clarity in my head. Shortly after that, I came over slightly hot, but I do not know if that was connected.

 

*

 

I have taken so little of this stuff that I cannot say whether it affects my cognition. But it has a waking effect on me, that is for sure. And that means a cognitive effect by default, I suppose, insofar as it enabled me to mentally revive. I will have to see whether my sleep is affected tonight. If so, I may use just half a cap in future as a wake-up pill, and see how sleep is later after that.

 

I should add that I have been experimenting with various herbs and supplements for the last few years, and very few have any effect on me at all (which is OK, I think it means I am probably healthy and do not require adaptogenics). Nothing at all has had such an immediate effect on me as this, which I had assumed would be another of Swanson's obscurer products usually the same for me as eating capsules full of dust.

 

I do not know what to do with this stuff yet; but I wanted to report on something that had a noticeable effect on me and to duplicate Turnbuckle's experience.
 

 

 

Edited by eon, 23 June 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[Major Legend]

Raw Cocoa works, but in my experience it has about the same strength as Ginkgo and Vinpocetine, both of which I find cleaner than cocao, though I have bad eczema so I just don't like anything that increases blood flow to skin surface too much (bringing more histamine into contact).

 

 

[Gerrans]

 

I had been curious about trying this product. I have 2 unused bottles of it. The reason why I still haven't used it was because I was prescribed an amphetamine called Vyvanse. While the feel good effect lasts only a few hours (sometimes not even noticeable), I wonder if I should try 1 pill of acacia catechu to see how that works out. Is it stimulating or not at all? I rarely drink caffeinated drinks and have tried some sweet tea from McDonald's while on Vyvanse, seem to give a bit of a lift but I could feel something in my heart was moving unusually. It does this with caffeine intake anyway but Vyvanse is smoother than any caffeinated drinks. I'm only on 30 mg of Vyvanse, stepping up to 40 mg in a few days.

 

Well, it depends what effect you are looking for. It certainly pepped me up yesterday and allowed me to get on with my work. People drink tea and coffee for that reason.

 

The good news for me is that the one pill yesterday did not interfere with my sleep. I went to sleep at the normal time and slept my normal amount. Before I woke up, I was having an extraordinary elaborate, meticulous, and beautiful narrative dream, in which I was producing an outdoor passion play in a copse. I often do have vivid dreams, from the herbals I take, but this was like something out of Hermann Hesse. Not that I am interested in dreams, but they seem to be a touchstone for the brain effects of a supplement.

 

*

 

The clear-minded effect of yesterday's capsule lasted well into the evening, gradually dissolving in time. I got a great deal done, including looking around the internet to see see what I could find out about Acacia Catechu. Usually if I experience something I can find research and anecdotes that confirm and explain it, but this time there was almost a deafening silence about any nootropic effect of this herb--other than Turnbuckle's comments here. (There is plenty about its other effects--it is a venerable herb for mouth, throat, and skin health, for example.) Of course, catechins are known to have mentally stimulating effects, as in tea and cocoa, but Acacia Catechu is not played up on that basis, even by its proponents.

 

I did however find one slightly incoherent piece in which acacia catechu's effects were likened to piracetam:

 

http://scialert.net/....231.241&org=10

 

Antiamnesic and Antioxidant Effect of Acacia catechu-catechin in Normal, Aged and Scopolamine Challenged Cognitive Deficit Mice

 

S.M. Biradar, K.C. Tarak, V.H. Kulkarni, P.V. Habbu and D.M. Smita

 

ABSTRACT

 

In the present study Acacia catechu-Catechin (CTN) was evaluated for antiamnesic and antioxidant activity using various in vivo models. Scopolamine and natural aging were used to induce experimental amnesia in mice. The tested does of CTN (40, 20 and 10 mg kg-1) significantly enhanced the learning capacity and retention of memory in Passive Shock Avoidance and Spatial Water cage exteroceptive behavioural models. Pre-treatment with CTN restored the increased levels of lipid peroxidation and reduced glutathione due to scopolamine and natural aging. A dose dependent CTN (40, 20 and 10 mg kg-1) antioxidant activity of Thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) and reduced glutathione (GSH) in whole brain was seen, which were comparable to Standard Piracetam (400 mg kg-1). Hence, it is worthwhile to explore the potential of this Acacia catechu-Catechin in the management of Neurodegenerative disorders of the type Alzheimer’s disease.

 

*

 

Anyway, now I know that a single pill of Acacia Catechu extract does not reduce my sleep, I shall experiment with it for a while and report back later. It seems to me that a pill which could totally wake one from drowsiness in ten minutes would be a useful item to have in the toolbox.

Edited by Gerrans, 23 June 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[eon]

So a dose of something like a 10 mg acacia catechu is comparable to a 400 mg of piracetam? The compound is of interest to me, but due to a Vyvanse prescription I wasn't able to try it yet, but hopefully soon.

 

I would like to know if anyone here has tried and can compare the difference between an amphetamine vs. catechin? I know acacia catechu was said to have some DMT or perhaps is used as an MAOI along with a DMT containing compound to induce a hallucinogenic state but I am not sure if this is the type of acacia strain.

Edited by eon, 23 June 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Major Legend]

So a dose of something like a 10 mg acacia catechu is comparable to a 400 mg of piracetam? The compound is of interest to me, but due to a Vyvanse prescription I wasn't able to try it yet, but hopefully soon.

 

I would like to know if anyone here has tried and can compare the difference between an amphetamine vs. catechin? I know acacia catechu was said to have some DMT or perhaps is used as an MAOI along with a DMT containing compound to induce a hallucinogenic state but I am not sure if this is the type of acacia strain.

 

Plant extracts usually have a ton of different bioactives in them, and it also depends on extraction method, part of the plant, age of the plant. Amphetamines by comparison in my experience are much more predictable in effects, in my experience too the strongest catechin extracts tend to be like "bad drugs" where the side effects outnumber the benefits.

 

Amphetamines are more "specific" in feeling, its clean, clear in a strangely uncomfortable medical way. Of all my experiences with psychoactive amphetamines is probably up there as some of the strongest, behaviour changing substances that can impact you over the long term. I don't think catechins can come anywhere close to the psychoactive effects of amphetamines. Even DRI's don't come close to the effects amphetamines have, which is also why amphetamines have such a bad rep for comedowns.

 

The good thing about catechin's is they come down tends to be much gradual, and the effects tend to be somewhat less "robotic" due to the wide partial range of bioactives. This also means the rebound is almost non existent.

 

I think HEG training has much more promise in improving memory than either substances in the long term.

[Gerrans]

 

So a dose of something like a 10 mg acacia catechu is comparable to a 400 mg of piracetam? The compound is of interest to me, but due to a Vyvanse prescription I wasn't able to try it yet, but hopefully soon.

 

I would like to know if anyone here has tried and can compare the difference between an amphetamine vs. catechin? I know acacia catechu was said to have some DMT or perhaps is used as an MAOI along with a DMT containing compound to induce a hallucinogenic state but I am not sure if this is the type of acacia strain.

 

Plant extracts usually have a ton of different bioactives in them, and it also depends on extraction method, part of the plant, age of the plant. Amphetamines by comparison in my experience are much more predictable in effects, in my experience too the strongest catechin extracts tend to be like "bad drugs" where the side effects outnumber the benefits.

 

Amphetamines are more "specific" in feeling, its clean, clear in a strangely uncomfortable medical way. Of all my experiences with psychoactive amphetamines is probably up there as some of the strongest, behaviour changing substances that can impact you over the long term. I don't think catechins can come anywhere close to the psychoactive effects of amphetamines. Even DRI's don't come close to the effects amphetamines have, which is also why amphetamines have such a bad rep for comedowns.

 

The good thing about catechin's is they come down tends to be much gradual, and the effects tend to be somewhat less "robotic" due to the wide partial range of bioactives. This also means the rebound is almost non existent.

 

I think HEG training has much more promise in improving memory than either substances in the long term.

 

I have never taken amphetamines (or piracetam), but I agree that herbs can be rough and unpredictable. I have not experienced a discernible effect from green tea pills (though I enjoy the faintly stimulating effect of a cup of green tea). When I tried Cat's Claw it gave me a horrific migraine, so it went straight in the bin. Getting the measure of catechins seems very difficult indeed.
 

Edited by Gerrans, 23 June 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[eon]

I was just reading some facts about Adolf Hitler eating 2 pounds of chocolate per day. I haven't even finished my 3 pound bag of 100% dark chocolate several months after I bought it. Must be nice to afford to eat 2 pounds of chocolate per day. I wonder if it boosted his "euphoria"? Then again he's Austrian so I'm assuming since Austria is known for their chocolates, I bet he was able to get them for a good price per pound. I also wonder how he was able to stay at his consistent weight of about 160 pounds?

 

"50. Hitler reportedly had a sweet tooth. He ate up to two pounds ofchocolate per day.^g"

 

^{http://facts.randomh...tler-facts.html}

[resveratrol_guy]

I was just reading some facts about Adolf Hitler eating 2 pounds of chocolate per day. I haven't even finished my 3 pound bag of 100% dark chocolate several months after I bought it. Must be nice to afford to eat 2 pounds of chocolate per day. I wonder if it boosted his "euphoria"? Then again he's Austrian so I'm assuming since Austria is known for their chocolates, I bet he was able to get them for a good price per pound. I also wonder how he was able to stay at his consistent weight of about 160 pounds?

 

"50. Hitler reportedly had a sweet tooth. He ate up to two pounds ofchocolate per day.^g"

 

^{http://facts.randomh...tler-facts.html}

 

Great post, if it's true. You've pointed out the underappreciated downside of cacao: it increases blood pressure acutely (even though it lowers it, chronically). So if you eat such mammoth doses, the acute effects rule. You end up with sleep deprivation and emotional instability. (This is why I've quit using chocolate myself, inasmuch as I love the beneficial aspects.) While Hitler was clearly psychotic to begin with, who knows how much more vehement he became as a result of this purported habit. At that level, it's very possible that he was destroying his brain with stress hormones, fanning the flames of his tyranny.

OTOH, Jean Calment lived to 122, eating about 1/4 pound a day, and appeared to be quite mild-mannered with good cognitive health.

This is all to say that "dose makes poison", especially when superimposed on some vastly aberrant genetics.
 

[Gerrans]

 

 

 

OTOH, Jean Calment lived to 122, eating about 1/4 pound a day, and appeared to be quite mild-mannered with good cognitive health.

 

 

I never liked her. She slagged off Van Gogh, so she is dead to me.