5 replies to this topic

[GoingPrimal]

Alright everyone, my aim is to bring up a lively and educated discussion on soy and whether or not the phytoestrogens contained therein would have any appreciable effect on an otherwise normal, healthy person. Specifically, could consumption of soy phytoestrogens lower my testosterone, cause symptoms of elevated estrogen or just lead to health problems down the road (further endocrine disruption, thyroid health, etc). I've done a few searches on the board but have not found too satisfying of an answer. There're a lot of smart folks on this board, ranging from vegans to paleo people, so I know of no better place to pose this question 

 

Things to consider :

 

1. I am specifically talking about low consumption of fermented soy products (specifically miso and natto), in the range of a tablespoon or two ~ 5 days a week. I am not talking about drinking large quantities of soy milk, eating huge blocks of tofu or other vegan alternatives to meat products, nor consuming soy in its myriad forms in processed junk food. Away with the soybean oil I say.

 

2. Let's leave the talk of GMOs and pesticides at the door and presuppose that we only eat organic, non-GMO soy products.

 

3. Do take into account the multiple other xeno-estrogens and endocrine disruptors one may encounter throughout the day, in our modern world.

 

4. Try to leave emotional attachments at the door as well, and remember that the new religion of science can prove to be quite contradictory at times O.o

 

I'm a 25 y.o. male in good shape, the rest of my diet is pretty spot on, I get a nice mix of weight lifting, cardio and yoga, and I do take care to minimize further xeno-estrogens. I'm not looking to have huge impressive testosterone numbers and realize at 25 I should be set in this department, but am looking to practice harm reduction. Will be getting a comprehensive blood test done as soon as I can afford one.

 

I'm interested in miso for the probiotics and over all phytonutrients, and in natto for the nattokinase, K2, spermidine and PQQ. I believe these two foods play a role in the otherwise very healthy diet of traditional Asian cultures and wish to reap the benefits for myself.

[Chupo]

I really wouldn't worry about a tablespoon or two of fermented soy five days a week - especially natto, which is the best source of vitamin K2 on the planet.

[kurdishfella]

I have noticed when I eat food depending on my bdnf levels i either smack a lot or nothing. When my bdnf is low I make more noise when eating but when its high i seem to be more in control so less smacking noise is made. And more crhr1 proteins = less control but too little can also be mean too much control it becomes counterproductive. a balance is needed.

[kurdishfella]

I have noticed when I eat food depending on my bdnf levels i either smack a lot or nothing. When my bdnf is low I make more noise when eating but when its high i seem to be more in control so less smacking noise is made. And more crhr1 proteins = less control but too little can also be mean too much control it becomes counterproductive. a balance is needed.

Also I noticed more bdnf etc you have the more right side of your face/body you use IE when you chew food on right teeth, but left side of body seems to be the dominant (on all humans maybe?, Your body kind of tilts down to the left otherwise if deficient and the length between neck up to head and down to shoulder seems shorter as opposed to left side which is longer and bdnf deficient leads to bad sight in right eye (not used much) but left eye works well. And you chew more with left teeth and not use right teeth much or middle teeths, or use much part of the right body, this can be disavtangeous if your right handed as most people are and have this. And a big giant hole delveops back of neck head due to spinal decreasing in thickness.

Edited by kurdishfella, 28 September 2020 - 02:52 PM.

[misterE]

Phytoestrogens are anti-estrogens. 

Think of it like this: you have estrone or estradiol with a potency of 10,000,000 competing for a estrogen receptor with a phytoestrogen, whose potency is 1,000

[Matt]

I've only read soy isoflavones causing estrogenic effects when consumed as a supplement and they used something like 450 - 900 mg.  The average soy food contains about 25 mg? So you'd have to consume A LOT of soy...

There are some phytoestrogens such as miroestrol that are potent and will activate alpha and beta estrogen receptors, but it's from a more exotic source that you're very unlikely to be consuming anyway. 

 

Negative effects on hormones from average intakes of soy? It's a non-issue.