• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Nootropics for Alzheimer's

alzheimer

  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#31 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 09 March 2015 - 05:49 PM

Thank you for you input Logic.

 

The B-Complex vitamin I take does have Nicotinic Acid in it( not sure how much since it only lists it as vitamin B3, as niacin and niacinamide) but enough to give you the burning tingling feeling if you take it ion an empty stomach. Maybe I'll add some extra Niacin to my supplements.

 

Though I've mentioned MCT oils, I had not rejected Virgin Coconut oil. I was, however, under the impression that straight MCTs were more effective at increasing Ketone Bodies.

 

C60OO was something I've already looked at and rejected. The threads here are interesting but mostly seem to involve "magical thinking". I've not seen any strong evidence as to how it might work, nor how it might be useful for my situation. I'm not convinced of it's safety, either. It appears to form crystals in some internal organs in the rats tested. I'm not sure why that should be considered benign in the long-term. I mean, maybe it is, but given a human's life-span, I'm not sure it can be guaranteed not to precipitate some kind of reaction. However, thank you for the suggestion.

 

One of things I have to balance is doing things that might help my situation with the possibility that they will harm my health and or accelerate whatever is going on with me.

 

For instance, NSAIDS, Vitamin E, CoQ10, and various anti-oxidants appear to decrease one's risks of Alzheimer's Disease, but, once one has MCI, these same substances have been shown in several studies to accelerate one's progression towards Alzheimer's Disease. For instance, ROS' may be damaging, but they also act as a signaling mechanism to the body. So, quenching that signalling mechanism may interfere with the body's natural mechanism's(though ultimately insufficient) to deal with this. NSAIDS are another interesting example. NSAIDS actually interfere with ABeta production and binding to some extent, but their anti-inflammatory action(though helpful in one sense) interferes with the body's natural mechanisms to clear ABeta(which are poorly functioning in AD).

 

You're probably already aware of the above, and I didn't mean to be pedantic, but I did want to make clear my caution on trying things. I like to see several research articles that suggest a substance may be useful(even if it's only in mice or rats), combined with hopefully none suggesting it accelerates progression towards AD.

 

Another thing I need to consider is my Lupus. There are several substances that might be useful to me such as Reishi Mushroom, for instance, but because of their effect in boosting the immune system, I am loathe to try, since that's likely to set my Lupus off.

 


  • like x 1

#32 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 09 March 2015 - 06:52 PM

Lithium is definitely a tricky one. Even though it's effects are dose-dependent, there's at least one report of micro doses being effective. so I figure it's worth a shot. It's effects on GSK-3 and inhibition of HSV-1 make it very attractive to me.

 

Very interesting information regarding NR. I had not heard of it affecting kidney function. My last blood work had my eGFR flagged as low, so maybe something to watch out for. Thanks.

 

So how do you know that your lithium dose is causing enough autophagy (especially of phosphotau) but not too much? A tiny chronic dose might not be worth all the doctor's visits and blood tests to obtain it, while a large one might accelerate dementia by autophagizing healthy neurons; this appears to have to occurred with a sodium valproate trial, for instance. This is not a rhetorical question, but I don't think we have the technology to answer it at this point. We might if the NeuroVision Imaging amyloid scanner could be reconfigured to visualize retinal phosphotau (assuming that it even gets deposited there).

 

The NR-kidney connection is something I've read in the anecdotes regarding NR and D-ribose (both of which containing a ribos(id)e component, but otherwise different). But it may just be that NR is mostly used by older people who unsurprisingly have kidney problems anyway. So I don't think it's fair to disparage NR at this point. However, I think there's enough circumstantial evidence to warrant further investigation.

 

GCSF did not affect Sally's eGFR, so I don't know what to recommend by way of kidney regeneration. (There are anecdotes of improvement following stem cell (adipose?) therapy, if you look around YouTube.) Scaffolded (prefabricated) kidneys are only just at the rat stage; 3D-printed kidney vasculature is the next technological leap. For now, you may wish to get ahead of the game and start discussing with a nephrologist, as at the moment, transplant may be the only longterm therapy available. eGFR is so mundane that we often take it for granted, which is a serious mistake because it obviously inhibits our ability to take supplements. I have a theory that eGFR can be boosted by a longterm ketogenic diet, but I won't have any evidence of that for a few months yet.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#33 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 09 March 2015 - 07:10 PM

I don't see Niacin=Nicotinic Acid (Not any form that ends in amide) mentioned.

Read Turnbuckle's profile page on why I think its a good idea.

 

MCT oils ketogenic diets are mentioned, but you are missing out on an important factor and a cheaper source of MCTs by not considering Virgin Coconut Oil:

Lauric Acid disrupts the lipid layer on lipid coated virii. (the majority of virii and the ones you cant be inoculated against)

This has 2 effects :  The lipid layer disguises the virus as a lipid ('food') disrupting the layer exposes the virus to the immune system and disrupts its ability to dock with and infect cells.

HSV, Epstein Bar etc are associated with Alz.

 

Also look into chelation/ors like M30 etc.

I would also go with C60oo if I were treating Alz.

 

Google Site Search (top menu - right) is your friend!

 

As someone who consumes a lot of white coconut oil and also coconut MCT oil, I strongly favor the latter -- not because what you said about lauric acid is untrue, but because when neural OXPHOS is impaired, you want as much MCT brain fuel per calorie as you can get. And of course, HSV1 is not going to be cured by lauric acid, once it's resident in the CSF; it can only be inhibited.

 

Chelators are worthy of some discussion, as they all have different side effect profiles and some are expensive or hard to obtain. So for Alzheimer's, we have M30, desferrioxamine, feralex-G, EDTA, and others. I haven't been able to determine which is better. And Longvida might obviate the need for any of these, or perhaps act synergistically.

 

I agree about niacin, and Turnbuckle also recommends nicotinamide.



#34 Synzael

  • Guest
  • 27 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Tempe, AZ

Posted 09 March 2015 - 08:45 PM

To address the concern some of you have shown to P21. It is simply DGGL which is a fragment of CNTF present in your body modified with an adamantane moiety. A lot of these research chemicals you are suggesting to treat alzheimers are less natural than the peptides, especially with intranasal administration of P21. I would say that it would be the least concerning and most promising treatment in my opinion.


Edited by Synzael, 09 March 2015 - 08:46 PM.


#35 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 09 March 2015 - 09:31 PM

To address the concern some of you have shown to P21. It is simply DGGL which is a fragment of CNTF present in your body modified with an adamantane moiety. A lot of these research chemicals you are suggesting to treat alzheimers are less natural than the peptides, especially with intranasal administration of P21. I would say that it would be the least concerning and most promising treatment in my opinion.

 

What research chemicals have I suggested using?

 

I'm not sure intranasal makes it any safer. I mean, if it gets into your system, and into your brain specifically, then it's available to cause any issues.

 

P21 doesn't worry me specifically(not like pig-brain-derived Cerebrolysin), but I do worry about any possible contaminants that may be in it since it's apparently synthed in small doses. Anyway, just me being a worry wort.

 

I've read what research is available (and the patent app). Should I get an actual diagnosis of AD, P21 will be added to my supplements immediately(and probably Noopept as well).
 



#36 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 09 March 2015 - 09:43 PM


So how do you know that your lithium dose is causing enough autophagy (especially of phosphotau) but not too much? A tiny chronic dose might not be worth all the doctor's visits and blood tests to obtain it, while a large one might accelerate dementia by autophagizing healthy neurons; this appears to have to occurred with a sodium valproate trial, for instance. This is not a rhetorical question, but I don't think we have the technology to answer it at this point. We might if the NeuroVision Imaging amyloid scanner could be reconfigured to visualize retinal phosphotau (assuming that it even gets deposited there).

 

I don't. It's quite frankly a crap shoot and worisome. One of the reasons I'm using a micro/low dose. But its all a big guess. That's the problem with everything I'm doing. No one knows what the likely effective doses are, or even if they are in fact effective or if they are harmful. I can extrapolate from animal studies, and I can guesstimate, and I can simply take a WAG.

 

Unfortunately, if I rely solely on my Doctor's not much will be done, and what they will do is known to be ineffective.

 

Of course, actually, I'm jumping the gun. All I know is that I have some kind of neurological issue going on, verified by my doctor, and have been diagnosed with MND/MCI. Whether or not this is the beginning of AD, or something else is unknown. It is, however, persistent, and slowly progressive. It is disturbing, when your doctor gets quiet and extra gentle, when he gives you the diagnosis, and avoids looking you in the eye.


Edited by Arisia, 09 March 2015 - 09:45 PM.


#37 Synzael

  • Guest
  • 27 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Tempe, AZ

Posted 09 March 2015 - 10:17 PM

 P21 from a good vendor will come in a vaccum sealed vial with more than 98-99% purity with the rest being mannitol to aid in blood brain barrier penetration. 
Intranasal definitely doesn't make it safer but a lot of people seem to prefer it to subcutaneous due to the fear of needles.

I just wanted to cover my bases if you were one of those people that thought it was intrinsically safer somehow lol

 

To address the concern some of you have shown to P21. It is simply DGGL which is a fragment of CNTF present in your body modified with an adamantane moiety. A lot of these research chemicals you are suggesting to treat alzheimers are less natural than the peptides, especially with intranasal administration of P21. I would say that it would be the least concerning and most promising treatment in my opinion.

 

What research chemicals have I suggested using?

 

I'm not sure intranasal makes it any safer. I mean, if it gets into your system, and into your brain specifically, then it's available to cause any issues.

 

P21 doesn't worry me specifically(not like pig-brain-derived Cerebrolysin), but I do worry about any possible contaminants that may be in it since it's apparently synthed in small doses. Anyway, just me being a worry wort.

 

I've read what research is available (and the patent app). Should I get an actual diagnosis of AD, P21 will be added to my supplements immediately(and probably Noopept as well).
 

 

 



#38 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 10 March 2015 - 12:35 AM

 

 P21 from a good vendor will come in a vaccum sealed vial with more than 98-99% purity with the rest being mannitol to aid in blood brain barrier penetration. 
Intranasal definitely doesn't make it safer but a lot of people seem to prefer it to subcutaneous due to the fear of needles.

I just wanted to cover my bases if you were one of those people that thought it was intrinsically safer somehow lol
 

 

Ok, Gotcha. I already take my estradiol IM, so not needle phobic. Not sure if SubQ would bother me. I guess in the long run it would be annoying, due to the frequency.



#39 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 11 March 2015 - 03:31 AM

 

 P21 from a good vendor will come in a vaccum sealed vial with more than 98-99% purity with the rest being mannitol to aid in blood brain barrier penetration. 
Intranasal definitely doesn't make it safer but a lot of people seem to prefer it to subcutaneous due to the fear of needles.

I just wanted to cover my bases if you were one of those people that thought it was intrinsically safer somehow lol

 


 

To address the concern some of you have shown to P21. It is simply DGGL which is a fragment of CNTF present in your body modified with an adamantane moiety. A lot of these research chemicals you are suggesting to treat alzheimers are less natural than the peptides, especially with intranasal administration of P21. I would say that it would be the least concerning and most promising treatment in my opinion.

 

What research chemicals have I suggested using?

 

I'm not sure intranasal makes it any safer. I mean, if it gets into your system, and into your brain specifically, then it's available to cause any issues.

 

P21 doesn't worry me specifically(not like pig-brain-derived Cerebrolysin), but I do worry about any possible contaminants that may be in it since it's apparently synthed in small doses. Anyway, just me being a worry wort.

 

I've read what research is available (and the patent app). Should I get an actual diagnosis of AD, P21 will be added to my supplements immediately(and probably Noopept as well).
 

 

 

@Synzael: The P21 thread is rather sparse. Why do you like this compound? Links?

 

@ Arisia: Noopept sounds like a waste of money, if you read the threads on it.



#40 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 11 March 2015 - 05:54 PM


@Synzael: The P21 thread is rather sparse. Why do you like this compound? Links?

 

@ Arisia: Noopept sounds like a waste of money, if you read the threads on it.

 

 

Noopept may in fact be a waste of money, but quite frankly, all of the supplements I'm taking, and am considering taking are speculative, and therefore could be considered a waste of money. Noopept is under consideration because of the following research.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19240853

 

 

We studied the effect of original dipeptide preparation Noopept (N-phenylacetyl-L-prolylglycine ethyl ester, GVS-111) with nootropic and neuroprotective properties on the expression of mRNA for neurotropic factors NGF and BDNF in rat hippocampus. Expression of NGF and BDNF mRNA in the cerebral cortex and hippocampus was studied by Northern blot analysis. Taking into account the fact that pharmacological activity of Noopept is realized after both acute and chronic treatment, we studied the effect of single and long-term treatment (28 days) with this drug. Expression of the studied neurotropic factors in the cerebral cortex was below the control after single administration of Noopept, while chronic administration caused a slight increase in BDNF expression. In the hippocampus, expression of mRNA for both neurotrophins increased after acute administration of Noopept. Chronic treatment with Noopept was not followed by the development of tolerance, but even potentiated the neurotrophic effect. These changes probably play a role in neuronal restoration. We showed that the nootropic drug increases expression of neurotrophic factors in the hippocampus. Our results are consistent with the hypothesis that neurotrophin synthesis in the hippocampus determines cognitive function, particularly in consolidation and delayed memory retrieval. Published data show that neurotrophic factor deficiency in the hippocampus is observed not only in advanced Alzheimer's disease, but also at the stage of mild cognitive impairment (pre-disease state). In light of this our findings suggest that Noopept holds much promise to prevent the development of Alzheimer's disease in patients with mild cognitive impairment. Moreover, therapeutic effectiveness of Noopept should be evaluated at the initial stage of Alzheimer's disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25096780

 

 

...Conclusions: Taken together, these data provide evidence that novel cognitive enhancer noopept protects PC12 cell against deleterious actions of Aß through inhibiting the oxidative damage and calcium overload as well as suppressing the mitochondrial apoptotic pathway. Moreover, neuroprotective properties of noopept likely include its ability to decrease tau phosphorylation and to restore the altered morphology of PC12 cells. Therefore, this nootropic dipeptide is able to positively affect not only common pathogenic pathways but also disease-specific mechanisms underlying Aß-related pathology.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22500312

 

 

An analysis of MMSE scores and lateral and categorical associations revealed the significant improvement of cognitive functions after 2 months in patients of the main group compared to the controls. The global assessment of efficacy revealed the mild improvement in the main group while no changes were found in the control group. The results have demonstrated that noopept, used in dose 20 mg daily during 2 months, improves cognitive functions in stroke patients and has a high level of safety.


Edited by Arisia, 11 March 2015 - 05:55 PM.


#41 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 11 March 2015 - 06:18 PM


@Synzael: The P21 thread is rather sparse. Why do you like this compound? Links?

 

@ Arisia: Noopept sounds like a waste of money, if you read the threads on it.

 

 

I know you directed this at Synzael, but my reasons for considering it are as follows.

 

http://www.sciencedi...01457931000520X

 

 

...The present study shows that P21 induces neuronal plasticity and neurogenic properties which consequently enhance cognition. In particular, we have investigated the effects of P21 in the hippocampus, but, considering positive enhancement of the object recognition task which involves other brain structures as well as the hippocampus, we speculate that the beneficial effect of P21 we have shown to be connected with neuronal plasticity in the DG may occur in other brain areas as well. ...

 

http://www.alzheimer...0461-5/fulltext

 

 

Peptide 021 treatment rescued cognitive deficits analyzed by one-trial object recognition task and Morris water maze test in 3xTgAD mice. Impairments in dendritic and synaptic plasticity as analyzed by quantification of expression levels of synaptophysin, MAP2, and various glutamate receptors subunits were also reversed by Peptide 021 treatment. A significant reduction in abnormal hyperphosphorylation of tau at important AD neurofibrillary pathology associated sites was observed with Peptide 021 treatment. ...

 

...These findings, for the first time, demonstrate the reversal of tau pathology and associated cognitive impairment by rescue of synaptic plasticity deficits by chronic treatment with a CNTF derived peptide. These data provide evidence that shifting the balance from neurodegeneration to neural regeneration with neurotrophic factor peptide mimetics remains a promising therapeutic approach for AD, and needs to be explored further.

 

I also have several links on peptide 6, a similar peptide that affects CNTF, showing potentially desirable effects in treating Alzheimer's Disease.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20697724

 

 

...peripheral administration of Peptide 6, an 11-mer, which makes an active region of ciliary neurotrophic factor (CNTF, amino acid residues 146-156), restored cognition by enhancing neurogenesis and neuronal plasticity in these mice. Although this treatment had no detectable effect on Aβ and tau pathologies in 9-month animals, it enhanced neurogenesis in dentate gyrus, reduced ectopic birth in the granular cell layer, and increased neuronal plasticity in the hippocampus and cerebral cortex. These findings, for the first time, demonstrate the possibility of therapeutic treatment of AD and related disorders by peripheral administration of a peptide corresponding to a biologically active region of CNTF.

 


  • Informative x 1

#42 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 11 March 2015 - 08:40 PM

Thanks for the references, Arisia. P21 actually does look impressive, but if I read the human experience thread above, it sounds like an SSRI (effectively, not literally) but not a memory enhancer (as suggested by the murine study), possibly because they should have used lipidated peptides (that is, an aggregate of pure peptides surrounded by a lipid shell for oral consumption as opposed to injection, like Longvida). After more than a year since it was first posted here, I would have expected to hear more; perhaps people just don't like periodic expensive injections. Noopept has some good studies, as you've shown, but the reviews here are unconvincing, perhaps due to supply fraud.

 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 11 March 2015 - 08:40 PM.


#43 Synzael

  • Guest
  • 27 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Tempe, AZ

Posted 11 March 2015 - 08:59 PM

P21 is not that expensive and you don't need to inject it. There are tons of reviews of it on reddit.com/r/nootropics. You can get a nasal spray of P21 for like 100 doses of 500mcg for $50
  • like x 1

#44 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:17 PM

Thanks for the references, Arisia. P21 actually does look impressive, but if I read the human experience thread above, it sounds like an SSRI (effectively, not literally) but not a memory enhancer (as suggested by the murine study), possibly because they should have used lipidated peptides (that is, an aggregate of pure peptides surrounded by a lipid shell for oral consumption as opposed to injection, like Longvida). After more than a year since it was first posted here, I would have expected to hear more; perhaps people just don't like periodic expensive injections. Noopept has some good studies, as you've shown, but the reviews here are unconvincing, perhaps due to supply fraud.

 

I think some of the poor reviews are due to people's expectations. They're expecting(or at least hoping) it will turn them into a Mentant... and it doesn't. Most of the people taking these substances have normally function brains... they're trying to improve something that already works just fine. So, it's not impressive.

 

Besides the fraud issue with Noopept, in particular, there's the low oral bioavailability issue as well. Noopept definitely should be taken sublingually. But again, I think people are just expecting too much from it. I'd be surprised if it does any more than Lions Mane mushroom, and maybe not as much... but it's a different approach, and may be worth trying.

 

My main issue with it (besides fraud and purity issues) is that it's been around for awhile, and if it was that effective, it would probably have proven itself by now.

 

But, I'm taking a multifactoral approach. Chipping away at the problem on bit at a time like Andy Dufrane, digging his way out of Shawshank. Every little chip may help.

 

On another topic. I started NR again, and with my brain function better it's not having the strong negative effects it previously had. However, for me, even 75mg of NR is acting like a strong stimulant. Pretty surprising. Its just B3... kinda.


Edited by Arisia, 11 March 2015 - 10:25 PM.

  • Good Point x 1

#45 Logic

  • Guest
  • 2,661 posts
  • 587
  • Location:Kimberley, South Africa
  • NO

Posted 12 March 2015 - 12:04 AM

Thank you for you input Logic.
 
...Maybe I'll add some extra Niacin to my supplements.


http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=538991
http://www.longecity...lzheimers-cure/
 

Though I've mentioned MCT oils, I had not rejected Virgin Coconut oil. I was, however, under the impression that straight MCTs were more effective at increasing Ketone Bodies.


IIRC some MCT Oil contains Lauric acid, while some manufacturers consider it too long to be included in the oil.
I feel that the acids around 12 carbons in length are synergistic or additive to the antiviral and antibacterial effects seen with VCO.
But as VCO is relatively low in the acids with shorter carbon chains than 12, it may be a good idea to mix the two oils?
More research reqd.
 

C60OO was something I've already looked at and rejected. The threads here are interesting but mostly seem to involve "magical thinking". I've not seen any strong evidence as to how it might work, nor how it might be useful for my situation. I'm not convinced of it's safety, either. It appears to form crystals in some internal organs in the rats tested. I'm not sure why that should be considered benign in the long-term. I mean, maybe it is, but given a human's life-span, I'm not sure it can be guaranteed not to precipitate some kind of reaction. However, thank you for the suggestion.
 
One of things I have to balance is doing things that might help my situation with the possibility that they will harm my health and or accelerate whatever is going on with me.


:)
The C60oo sub-forum has grown so large that it is almost impossible to find the salient points anymore.
A Summary of the whole subject is urgently required.
I will try:

A scientist named Baati did a study in which rats received 24 doses of C60oo over 30% of their lifetimes and ending when the last of the control rats (no C60oo) died.
They lived 90% longer.
Autopsies revealed that the rats did not have one cancerous cell whereas healthy rats always have some which are taken out by the immune system and most rats die of cancer.
(It was when this came to light that I decided to order C60oo)

Subsequent research by the most respected and biologically educated members here makes the most likely MOA that C60oo is an extremely effective antioxidant that has the ability to get into the membranes of the ROS producing, DNA containing mitochondria in each cell.

Subsequent anecdotal evidence seems to prove out this theory and people like Turnbuckle and Niner are taking C60oo with almost unbelievable effects on energy, cognition etc. and even rejuvenation in some of those taking high doses.

I would take the time to do a bit more research and perhaps invite Niner and Turnbuckle to this thread if I were you.
http://www.longecity...ic-discussions/
 



Another thing I need to consider is my Lupus. There are several substances that might be useful to me such as Reishi Mushroom, for instance, but because of their effect in boosting the immune system, I am loathe to try, since that's likely to set my Lupus off.


"...autophagy is an immune effector of Th1/Th2 T cell response polarization-autophagy is activated by Th1 cytokines (which act in defense against intracellular pathogens) and is inhibited by Th2 cytokines (which make cells accessible to intracellular pathogens)..."

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=688775
http://www.longecity...-erythematosus/
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=701557
http://www.longecity...2376-sens-news/



#46 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 12 March 2015 - 01:44 AM

Logic. Thank you. I've already read the c60 threads (the original "rat thread" and the C60 experiences thread, were some of the first threads I read when I first joined), and continue to keep up on them. I find it all very interesting. But still, mostly anecdotal, and speculative.

 

From what I've read in PubMed c60 is indeed a powerful antioxidant and free radical scavenger, and does not seem to be consumed/inactivated in the process of doing so, so perhaps one of the best ones available. However, for my purposes, this does not necessarily make it desirable. As I've already mentioned, both anti-inflammatories and antioxidants have not been found very useful in treating Alzheimer's disease, and have been shown in several studies (some quite large), to increase the progression from MCI(where I am now) towards Alzheimer's Disease.

 

PubMed does have a few studies showing hydrated c60 interfering with AB, but seeing as hydrated c60 can cause lipid peroxidation and the brain is quite lipid rich(that's a nice way of admitting I'm a fat-head), I'm not sure I'd want to go that route. C60oo, may also affect AB, and of course wouldn't have any lipid peroxidation issues, but I've so far seen no research on that. At any rate, there are many substances that affect AB, and none of them really do much for AD in humans. We've kicked the hell out of rat-Alzheimer's... but that's because it's a concocted faux-Alzheimer's model that probably does not realistically represent AD in humans(as well as the fact that a rat's BB is a bit more permissive that of a human').

 

Anyway, I hope my response is not taken as me arguing with you. I appreciate the information you've given. Just explaining with I'm still lukewarm on C60oo


  • Informative x 1

#47 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:22 AM

Conventionally, acetylcholinesterase inhibitors such as Razadyne (galantamine) lose their antialzheimer's effectiveness after less than 2 years of use. Because they treat the symptoms instead of the disease, the patient is in worse shape neurologically once outward cognitive function returns to baseline. But anyone reading this thread already knows that.

This fact parallels the observations of many racetam users here on Longecity who report irrecoverable loss of efficacy after several months on the drug -- a drug which supposedly affects the spatial distribution of choline in the brain, not unlike an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

Lipidated curcumin might be crucial to potentiating the effects of both. How did I come up with this brilliant theory? I didn't. I stole it from a man who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a decade ago, and has now substantially reversed his disease by taking Razadyne while eating a diet rich in "curried foods" (de facto lipidated curcumin), omega 3, D3, B12, and (probably to no avail) encapsulated tumeric. I think his video series constitutes a high quality anecdote demonstrating the effectiveness of this approach, which, apart from the prescription-only Razadyne, might be vastly more useful still, if started well before diagnosis. Furthermore, he seems oblivious to the benefits of coconut oil or any sort of ketogenic diet (or c60oo, for that matter). He's a bit slow and occasionally has his facts wrong (like tumeric being 95% curcumin), but could easily pass for an elderly professor still quite sharp in his area of expertise. Except that he worked for NASA instead of a biotech company, and never researched any of this until Razadyne gave him a few months of mental acuity before he was supposed to decline into oblivion. Yes, it's only an anecdote lying in the forgotten attic of YouTube, but to date, I have seen no better evidence with regards to the human effectiveness of lipidated curcumin in the context of an "Alzheimer's cocktail".
 

His YouTube channel, which is exclusively dedicated to this topic, is here.

 



#48 β-Endorphin

  • Guest
  • 66 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Canada

Posted 12 March 2015 - 06:11 PM

There are some interesting novel treatment approaches to the treatment of Alzheimer's, but they seem to be preliminary. Still, they do seem promising:

 

Adenosine(Specifically A2A) receptor antagonists not only improve symptoms, but actually prevent Amyloid beta neurotoxicity:

 

Alzheimer’s disease (AD) is a neurodegenerative disorder of the central nervous system manifested by cognitive and memory deterioration, a variety of neuropsychiatric symptoms, behavioral disturbances, and progressive impairment of daily life activities. Current pharmacotherapies are restricted to symptomatic interventions but do not prevent progressive neuronal degeneration. Therefore, new therapeutic strategies are needed to intervene with these progressive pathological processes. In the past several years adenosine, a ubiquitously released purine ribonucleoside, has become important for its neuromodulating capability and its emerging positive experimental effects in neurodegenerative diseases. Recent research suggests that adenosine receptors play important roles in the modulation of cognitive function. The present paper attempts to review published reports and data from different studies showing the evidence of a relationship between adenosinergic function and AD-related cognitive deficits. Epidemiological studies have found an association between coffee (a nonselective adenosine receptor antagonist) consumption and improved cognitive function in AD patients and in the elderly. Long-term administration of caffeine in transgenic animal models showed a reduced amyloid burden in brain with better cognitive performance. Antagonists of adenosine A2A receptors mimic these beneficial effects of caffeine on cognitive function. Neuronal cell cultures with amyloid beta in the presence of an A2A receptor antagonist completely prevented amyloid beta-induced neurotoxicity. These findings suggest that the adenosinergic system constitutes a new therapeutic target for AD, and caffeine and A2A receptor antagonists may have promise to manage cognitive dysfunction in AD.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2769004/

 

Caffeine would also be the safest adenosine antagonist, but more powerful and selective ones could be considered(Although their safety profile is kinda shady)

 

Cannabinoids are also an interesting therapeutic approach, as they seem to reduce inflammation and beta-Amyloid neurotoxicity, even in non-psychoactive doses:

Alzheimer's disease is an age-related neurodegenerative condition associated with cognitive decline. The pathological hallmarks of the disease are the deposition of β-amyloid protein and hyperphosphorylation of tau, which evoke neuronal cell death and impair inter-neuronal communication. The disease is also associated with neuroinflammation, excitotoxicity and oxidative stress. In recent years the proclivity of cannabinoids to exert a neuroprotective influence has received substantial interest as a means to mitigate the symptoms of neurodegenerative conditions. In brains obtained from Alzheimer's patients alterations in components of the cannabinoid system have been reported, suggesting that the cannabinoid system either contributes to, or is altered by, the pathophysiology of the disease. Certain cannabinoids can protect neurons from the deleterious effects of β-amyloid and are capable of reducing tau phosphorylation. The propensity of cannabinoids to reduce β-amyloid-evoked oxidative stress and neurodegeneration, whilst stimulating neurotrophin expression neurogenesis, are interesting properties that may be beneficial in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol can also inhibit acetylcholinesterase activity and limit amyloidogenesis which may improve cholinergic transmission and delay disease progression. Targeting cannabinoid receptors on microglia may reduce the neuroinflammation that is a feature of Alzheimer's disease, without causing psychoactive effects. Thus, cannabinoids offer a multi-faceted approach for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease by providing neuroprotection and reducing neuroinflammation, whilst simultaneously supporting the brain's intrinsic repair mechanisms by augmenting neurotrophin expression and enhancing neurogenesis. The evidence supporting a potential role for the cannabinoid system as a therapeutic target for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease will be reviewed herewith.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2190031/

 

Oregano and many other herbs contains beta-caryophyllene, a cannabinoid that is a selective agonist for CB2 receptors. Perhaps you could incorporate that(Oregano and other herbs that contain this chemical) into your stack?

 

Another interesting and promising avenue of treatment is increasing norepinephrine levels. Animal studies have shown to reduced Norepi levels reduces beta-Amyloid clearance and negatively impacts cognition. Reduced NE levels are also linked to neuroinflammation in Alzheimer's. Restoring Norepi levels not only reverses a lot of inflammation and cognitive decline, but actually slow the progression of the disease:

The Alzheimer's disease (AD) epidemic is a looming crisis, with an urgent need for new therapies to delay or prevent symptom onset and progression. There is growing awareness that clinical trials must target stage-appropriate pathophysiological mechanisms to effectively develop disease-modifying treatments. Advances in AD biomarker research have demonstrated changes in amyloid-beta (Aβ), brain metabolism and other pathophysiologies prior to the onset of memory loss, with some markers possibly changing one or two decades earlier. These findings suggest that amyloid-based therapies would optimally be targeted at the earliest clinically detectable stage (such as mild cognitive impairment (MCI)) or before. Postmortem data indicate that tau lesions in the locus coeruleus (LC), the primary source of subcortical norepinephrine (NE), may be the first identifiable pathology of AD, and recent data from basic research in animal models of AD indicate that loss of NE incites a neurotoxic proinflammatory condition, reduces Aβ clearance and negatively impacts cognition - recapitulating key aspects of AD. In addition, evidence linking NE deficiency to neuroinflammation in AD also exists. By promoting proinflammatory responses, suppressing anti-inflammatory responses and impairing Aβ degradation and clearance, LC degeneration and NE loss can be considered a triple threat to AD pathogenesis. Remarkably, restoration of NE reverses these effects and slows neurodegeneration in animal models, raising the possibility that treatments which increase NE transmission may have the potential to delay or reverse AD-related pathology. This review describes the evidence supporting a key role for noradrenergic-based therapies to slow or prevent progressive neurodegeneration in AD. Specifically, since MCI coincides with the onset of clinical symptoms and brain atrophy, and LC pathology is already present at this early stage of AD pathogenesis, MCI may offer a critical window of time to initiate novel noradrenergic-based therapies aimed at the secondary wave of events that lead to progressive neurodegeneration. Because of the widespread clinical use of drugs with a NE-based mechanism of action, there are immediate opportunities to repurpose existing medications. For example, NE transport inhibitors and NE-precursor therapies that are used for treatment of neurologic and psychiatric disorders have shown promise in animal models of AD, and are now prime candidates for early-phase clinical trials in humans.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23634965

 

To go along with this, dopamine-beta-hydroxylase(the enzyme that converts dopamine to norepinephrine) has been shown to be reduced in people with AD postmortem(http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/6779929).

Stimulants(Norepi Reuptake Inhibitors and Releasing agents), especially amphetamine, might be useful for this short term. But long term, sustainable treatment, would probably be trying to restore function of dopamine-beta-hydroxylase and/or norepinephrine precursor therapy.

 

Norepinephrine precursors like L-tyrosine and L-Dopa first convert to dopamine, then dopamine is broken down into norepinephrine. So perhaps precursors are not the best of ideas. The main focus should then be upregulation of dopamine-beta-hydroxylase:

 

Corticosterone upregulates dopamine-beta-hydroxylase and norepinephrine transporters in rats: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3924588/

Nitric Oxide induces long term upregulation of not only dopamine-beta-hydroxylase, but all catecholamine producing enzymes(tyrosine hydroxylase etc.): http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12645083

 

So, then we should be looking for supplements that boost nitric oxide, and L-arginine(http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8769510) would be the best for this purpose. However nitric oxide is a powerful vasodilator, and too much can cause hypotension.

 

 

This is all theoretical, but it could be interesting if you add in a little bit of Caffeine, Oregano and L-arginine into your stack and see if it helps.

 


Edited by β-Endorphin, 12 March 2015 - 06:19 PM.

  • Informative x 2
  • like x 1

#49 Synzael

  • Guest
  • 27 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Tempe, AZ

Posted 12 March 2015 - 08:34 PM

I mean everyone's neurochemistry is different. I didn't feel NR at all when I tried it, I want to try it again when Im doing something like weightlifting. P21(1mg)+Nacetyl-semax-amidate+Nacetyl-selank nasal@ (600MCG) Once a day is extremely potent for mentally strenuous tasks. The effects get stronger with multiple days use and persist for few days after stopping a cycle. I havent noticed any sort of tolerance just sensitization. 


  • Informative x 2
  • like x 1

#50 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 13 March 2015 - 02:20 AM

P21 is not that expensive and you don't need to inject it. There are tons of reviews of it on reddit.com/r/nootropics. You can get a nasal spray of P21 for like 100 doses of 500mcg for $50

 

You might have a real winner here. And I found the Reddit threads here, here, and here for example.

 

Can you provide more information about your personal experience with this, and why you take it with semax nasal spray?
 

In particular, from the anecdotes, it's hard to discern the nature of the chronic effect, as opposed to the multi-hour focus boost which constitutes the acute effect.

 

Any hazards that you're aware of, apart from the obvious fact that this is fresh outta the lab?

 

EDIT: See reviews here for more user experience reports. And this Reddit thread discusses a theoretical autoimmune problem.

 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 13 March 2015 - 03:16 AM.

  • like x 1

#51 β-Endorphin

  • Guest
  • 66 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Canada

Posted 13 March 2015 - 05:01 AM

Some other preliminary drug treatments:

 

Selective Muscarinic M1 Receptor Agonists seem very promising, as not only do they restore cognitive function, but also seem to beneficially modulate the production of tau and amyloid precursor proteins:

 

A cholinergic hypofunction in Alzheimer's disease (AD) may lead to formation of beta-amyloids that might impair the coupling of M1 muscarinic ACh receptors (mAChRs) with G proteins. This disruption in coupling can lead to decreased signal transduction, to a reduction in levels of trophic amyloid precursor proteins (APPs), and to generation of more beta-amyloids that can also suppress ACh synthesis and release, aggravating further the cholinergic deficiency. These "vicious cycles," a presynaptic and a postsynaptic one, may be inhibited, in principle, by M1 selective agonists. Such properties can be detected in the functionally selective M1 agonists from the AF series [e.g., project drugs, AF102B, AF150(S)]. These M1 agonists promote the nonamyloidogenic APP processing pathways and decrease tau protein phosphorylation. The effects on tau proteins suggest a link between M1 mAChR-mediated signal transduction system(s) and the neuronal cytoskeleton via regulation of phosphorylation of tau microtubule-associated protein. This may indicate a dual role for M1 agonists: as inhibitors of two "vicious cycles," one induced by beta-amyloids, and the other due to overactivation of certain kinases (e.g., glycogen synthase kinase-3, GSK-3) or downregulation of phosphatases, respectively. Prolonged administration of AF150(S) in apolipoprotein E-knockout mice restored cognitive impairments, cholinergic hypofunction, and tau hyperphosphorylation, and unveiled a high-affinity binding site to M1 mAChRs. Except M1 agonists, there are no reports of compounds having such combined effects, for example, amelioration of cognition dysfunction and beneficial modulation of APPs together with tau phosphorylation. This unique property of M1 agonists to alter different aspects of AD pathogenesis could represent the most remarkable, yet unexplored, clinical value of such compounds.

 

 

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18220527

 

Unfortunately, all Selective M1 receptor agonists to date are research chemicals, so their safety remains questionable.

 

One interesting chemical that seems to go unnoticed in Alzheimer's treatment is L-theanine. It reduced memory impairments induced by Amyloid proteins and significantly reduced neuronal death and oxidative damage in a rat model of AD:

Amyloid beta (Abeta)-induced neurotoxicity is a major pathological mechanism of Alzheimer disease (AD). In this study, we investigated the inhibitory effect of l-theanine, a component of green tea (Camellia sinensis), on Abeta(1-42)-induced neuronal cell death and memory impairment. Oral treatment of l-theanine (2 and 4 mg/kg) for 5 weeks in the drinking water of mice, followed by injection of Abeta(1-42) (2 microg/mouse, icv), significantly attenuated Abeta(1-42)-induced memory impairment. Furthermore, l-theanine reduced Abeta(1-42) levels and the accompanying Abeta(1-42)-induced neuronal cell death in the cortex and hippocampus of the brain. Moreover, l-theanine inhibited Abeta(1-42)-induced extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK) and p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase as well as the activity of nuclear factor kappaB (NF-kappaB). l-Theanine also significantly reduced oxidative protein and lipid damage and the elevation of glutathione levels in the brain. These data suggest that the positive effects of l-theanine on memory may be mediated by suppression of ERK/p38 and NF-kappaB as well as the reduction of macromolecular oxidative damage. Thus, l-theanine may be useful in the prevention and treatment of AD.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19766184

 

L-theanine's mechanism of action isn't really explained in relation to its anti alzheimer's effect, but hey, its cheap, available, is well-tolerated and has a very long history of safe human use, so why not throw it in to your stack?

 

 

Finally, an interesting thing I found was that MAO-B levels were significantly elevated in AD patients(http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7816197), possible because Amyloid proteins upregulate it. Increased MAO-B could be contributing to neurotoxicity, as excessive metabolization of dopamine could not only lead to a dopamine deficiency, but also excessive metabolites that may oxidize into free radicals. Interestingly, MAO-B inhibitors increase NO production, and AD patients seem to be deficient in Nitric oxide:

The monoamine oxidase-B (MAO-B) inhibitor L-deprenyl (Selegiline) is effective in treating Parkinson's disease and possibly Alzheimer's disease, with a concomitant extension of life span. It has been suggested that the therapeutic efficacy of L-deprenyl may involve actions other than the inhibition of the enzyme MAO-B. This article reviews some novel actions of L-deprenyl and suggests that stimulation of nitric oxide (NO) production could be central to the action of the drug. L-Deprenyl induced rapid increases in NO production in brain tissue and cerebral blood vessels. In vitro or in vivo application of L-deprenyl produced vasodilatation. The drug also protected the vascular endothelium from the toxic effects of amyloid-beta peptide. Because NO modulates activities including cerebral blood flow and memory, and reduced NO production has been observed in AD brain, stimulation of NO production by L-deprenyl could contribute to the enhancement of cognitive function in AD. MAO-B inhibitors are unique in that they exert protective effects on both vascular and neuronal tissue and thus warrant further consideration in the treatment of vascular and neurodegenerative diseases associated with aging.

In relation to my last post, Nitric Oxide(NO) has been shown to upregulate multiple catecholamine producing enzymes, specifically dopamine-beta-hydroxylase(the enzyme that breaks dopamine down into norepinephrine). Dopamine-beta-hydroxylase has been found to be deficient in AD patients, which could explain why AD patients are also very deficient in Norepinephrine. Restoring Norepi levels reverses a lot of cognitive impairment and slows the progression of the disease, so increasing norepi levels(through upregulation of dopamine-beta-hydroxylase) is the goal here. Thus, it is not surprising that AD patients are also deficient in NO.

 

Additionally, if MAO-B inhibitors can indirectly increase NO, increase lifespan, increase dopamine levels and reverse oxidative damage done by dopamine metabolites, perhaps it is a much more preferable way of increasing NO in AD patients than just giving them L-arginine, an NO precursor. 

 

So perhaps you could add a MAO-B inhibitor to your stack instead of the L-arginine. Some natural MAO-B inhibitors are epicatechin, catechin, hordenine and a few others.  Adding in some L-theanine is a great idea as well. M1 muscarinic agonists seem very promising, but are only available as research chemicals with no safety tests done on them, so use at your own risk.

 

 


  • Informative x 3

#52 Synzael

  • Guest
  • 27 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Tempe, AZ

Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:10 PM

S

 

P21 is not that expensive and you don't need to inject it. There are tons of reviews of it on reddit.com/r/nootropics. You can get a nasal spray of P21 for like 100 doses of 500mcg for $50

 

You might have a real winner here. And I found the Reddit threads here, here, and here for example.

 

Can you provide more information about your personal experience with this, and why you take it with semax nasal spray?
 

In particular, from the anecdotes, it's hard to discern the nature of the chronic effect, as opposed to the multi-hour focus boost which constitutes the acute effect.

 

Any hazards that you're aware of, apart from the obvious fact that this is fresh outta the lab?

 

EDIT: See reviews here for more user experience reports. And this Reddit thread discusses a theoretical autoimmune problem.

 

So far noone has experienced the auto immune problem with P21 though we have seen some people who subcutaneously injected Semax into a lymph node experience some allergic reaction for a few weeks. After a month off the peptides though the immune reactions disappeared. The hazards would mainly be if the synth wasn't done properly and the quality of P21 we have been getting is pretty top notch. The only thing in it is a small amount of Mannitol to help with BBB penetration. I think by itself it can be a bit sleepy but mixed with Semax it's great.


  • Informative x 1

#53 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:29 PM

 

So far noone has experienced the auto immune problem with P21 though we have seen some people who subcutaneously injected Semax into a lymph node experience some allergic reaction for a few weeks. After a month off the peptides though the immune reactions disappeared. The hazards would mainly be if the synth wasn't done properly and the quality of P21 we have been getting is pretty top notch. The only thing in it is a small amount of Mannitol to help with BBB penetration. I think by itself it can be a bit sleepy but mixed with Semax it's great.

 

 

Thanks for the details.

 

Yes, I noticed from the reviews that everyone seems to mix it with semax (n-acetyl-semax, preferentially). Is this because semax is a norepinephrine agonist, which compensates for P21's slightly drousy effect that you mentioned? Or what?

 

So I take it that you work for Ceretropic. Is that correct?



#54 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:36 PM

Some other preliminary drug treatments:

 

Thanks for all this. So of these, M1 receptor agonists sound like the most effective, potentially, above all due to their putative effects against beta amyloid and phosphotau aggregates. But you said it's a "research chemical". Many people here would be unfazed by that. So while we take some time to digest the study results, do you have any suggested sources, or do we need to arrange our own synthesis?


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 13 March 2015 - 07:36 PM.


#55 Synzael

  • Guest
  • 27 posts
  • 2
  • Location:Tempe, AZ

Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:43 PM

 

 

So far noone has experienced the auto immune problem with P21 though we have seen some people who subcutaneously injected Semax into a lymph node experience some allergic reaction for a few weeks. After a month off the peptides though the immune reactions disappeared. The hazards would mainly be if the synth wasn't done properly and the quality of P21 we have been getting is pretty top notch. The only thing in it is a small amount of Mannitol to help with BBB penetration. I think by itself it can be a bit sleepy but mixed with Semax it's great.

 

 

Thanks for the details.

 

Yes, I noticed from the reviews that everyone seems to mix it with semax (n-acetyl-semax, preferentially). Is this because semax is a norepinephrine agonist, which compensates for P21's slightly drousy effect that you mentioned? Or what?

 

So I take it that you work for Ceretropic. Is that correct?

 

Yes I am their second employee hired after my boss who started the company. It's not an adrenaline agonist it has a fragment of ACTH 4-7 that provides stimulating qualities in a very natural manner. My personal stack atm is N-acetyl semax amidate + p21 + n acetyl selank once a day when i feel like it. I skipped it yesterday but i intend to use it tonight.



#56 resveratrol_guy

  • Guest
  • 1,315 posts
  • 290

Posted 15 March 2015 - 01:53 AM

 

Yes I am their second employee hired after my boss who started the company. It's not an adrenaline agonist it has a fragment of ACTH 4-7 that provides stimulating qualities in a very natural manner. My personal stack atm is N-acetyl semax amidate + p21 + n acetyl selank once a day when i feel like it. I skipped it yesterday but i intend to use it tonight.

 

 

Thanks for explaining. So there a lot of people watching P21 and friends, obviously. So is there any further detail you can provide on your personal experience? Do you have brain game scores, for instance? How you do know when you "feel like it"?



#57 Arisia

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Colorado
  • NO

Posted 16 March 2015 - 06:53 PM

Originally, I thought that my using ALCAR and R-Lipoic Acid (with maybe some CoQ10) had the mitochondrial dysfunction angle covered, but now I'm rethinking this. After reading the following studies it's re-emphasized, in my mind at least, how important, and central, mitochondrial dysfunction is.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22049413

 

 

Our results show that MitoQ prevented cognitive decline in these mice as well as oxidative stress, Aβ accumulation, astrogliosis, synaptic loss, and caspase activation in their brains. The work presented herein suggests a central role for mitochondria in neurodegeneration and provides evidence supporting the use of mitochondria-targeted therapeutics in diseases involving oxidative stress and metabolic failure, namely AD

 

The above abstract doesn't look that impressive, but upon reading the associated study, I've decided to change the emphasis of my supplements back towards mitochondrial dysfunction. One interesting finding in the study was that caspase, thought to be involved in both AB and Tau protein cleavage, in creased three-fold in the Alzheimer's model, but remained at the same level as the controls in the animals using MitoQ.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21490199

 

 

In wild-type hippocampal slices treated with exogenous amyloid β peptide (Aβ1-42) and in slices from APP/PS1 mutant mice that model AD, LTP was impaired. The LTP impairments were prevented by MitoQ, a mitochondria-targeted antioxidant, and EUK134, an SOD and catalase mimetic. In contrast, inhibition of NADPH oxidase either by diphenyliodonium (DPI) or by genetically deleting gp91(phox), the key enzymatic component of NADPH oxidase, had no effect on Aβ-induced LTP blockade. Moreover, live staining with MitoSOX Red, a mitochondrial superoxide indicator, combined with confocal microscopy, revealed that Aβ-induced superoxide production could be blunted by MitoQ, but not DPI, in agreement with our electrophysiological findings. Finally, in transgenic mice overexpressing SOD-2, Aβ-induced LTP impairments and superoxide generation were prevented. Our data suggest a causal relationship between mitochondrial ROS imbalance and Aβ-induced impairments in hippocampal synaptic plasticity

 

So, the above two studies, and a couple of others, demonstrate that mitochondrial dysfunction alone increases destructive AB. That AB increase mitochondrial dysfunction causing a self-perpetuating feedback loop. That mitochondrial dysfunction is at the heart of synaptic function loss, dentritic shortening, and increases caspase. MitoQ ameliorates all the aforementioned.

 

Mitochondrial dysfunction is not just an energy issue, as I once thought, but appears to be central to the problem(probably everyone else realized this but me). R-Lipoic-Acid, ALCAR, and CoQ10 may be useful, but almost surely insufficient. MitoQ is looking like a better choice.

 

My thoughts, at the moment, are that treating mitochondrial dysfunction should be the base of my treatment program.



#58 β-Endorphin

  • Guest
  • 66 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Canada

Posted 19 March 2015 - 07:41 AM

 

Some other preliminary drug treatments:

 

Thanks for all this. So of these, M1 receptor agonists sound like the most effective, potentially, above all due to their putative effects against beta amyloid and phosphotau aggregates. But you said it's a "research chemical". Many people here would be unfazed by that. So while we take some time to digest the study results, do you have any suggested sources, or do we need to arrange our own synthesis?

 

Unfortunately, I cannot help in that regard. I am not familiar with purchasing research chemicals, so i'm not sure about which source is a good source and which is a bad one. 77-LH-28-1 was the only selective M1 agonist I could find that penetrates the BBB. I couldn't find a single source for it unfortunately, so it then must be synthesized for use. Another option is just taking straight muscarine(more specific stimulation of muscarinic receptors vs acetylcholine), though I'm not sure how stimulation of other Muscarinic subtypes will affect the efficacy the drug has on Alzheimer's.


Edited by β-Endorphin, 19 March 2015 - 07:41 AM.


#59 JmareK

  • Guest
  • 49 posts
  • 3
  • Location:USA

Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:51 PM

There is a really interesting article that I have read on the best nootropics for Alzheimer's. 

 

In the article, it explains what some of the causes of Alzheimer's and what nootropics can help with it.

 

http://nootopics.com...for-alzheimers/

 

I hope this can help you.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#60 Kinesis

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • NO

Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:33 PM

Thank you for you input Logic.
 
...
 
Though I've mentioned MCT oils, I had not rejected Virgin Coconut oil. I was, however, under the impression that straight MCTs were more effective at increasing Ketone Bodies...


...

MCT oils ketogenic diets are mentioned, but you are missing out on an important factor and a cheaper source of MCTs by not considering Virgin Coconut Oil:
Lauric Acid disrupts the lipid layer on lipid coated virii. (the majority of virii and the ones you cant be inoculated against)
This has 2 effects : The lipid layer disguises the virus as a lipid ('food') disrupting the layer exposes the virus to the immune system and disrupts its ability to dock with and infect cells.
HSV, Epstein Bar etc are associated with Alz...


As someone who consumes a lot of white coconut oil and also coconut MCT oil, I strongly favor the latter -- not because what you said about lauric acid is untrue, but because when neural OXPHOS is impaired, you want as much MCT brain fuel per calorie as you can get. And of course, HSV1 is not going to be cured by lauric acid, once it's resident in the CSF; it can only be inhibited...


There's a product marketed as "liquid coconut oil" that occupies a sort of middle ground. It is like the products sold as "MCT Oil" except that it also contains lauric acid.  While most "MCT Oil" contains just the C-8 and C10, this "liquid coconut oil" is roughly one third each of the C-8, C-10, and C-12 (the latter being lauric acid).  Lauric acid is a bona-fide medium chain fatty acid, and I suspect that most "MCT" products are made without it due not to unfitness as an MCT component but to the fact that lauric acid is commercially valuable in its own right, being separated out and used to make shampoos, liquid soaps, etcetera.
 
This is a more complete MCT oil by virtue of including the benefits Logic cites associated with lauric acid.  It has much more of the C-8 and C10 fatty acids than unrefined coconut oil, and so is not only more ketogenic but stays liquid on the shelf and can used like ordinary "vegetable" (soy) oil on salads and in most cooking.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: alzheimer

10 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 10 guests, 0 anonymous users