266 replies to this topic

[GhostBuster]

There was an article in a local medical journal where the similar argument, that aging is a result of degeneration of body's repair mechanisms, was presented.  The following references, the bolded one being the most relevant, were cited:

 

1. Villeda SA, Luo J, Mosher KI ym. The ageing systemic milieu negatively regulates neurogenesis and cognitive function. Nature 2011;477(7362):90-4. PubMed
2. Villeda SA, Plambeck KE, Middeldorp J, ym. Young blood reverses age-related impairments in cognitive function and synaptic plasticity in mice. Nat Med 2014;20:659-63.
3. Sinha M, Jang YC, Oh J ym. Restoring systemic GDF11 levels reverses age-related dysfunction in mouse skeletal muscle. Science 2014;344(6184):649-52. PubMed
4. Katsimpardi L, Litterman NK, Schein PA ym. Vascular and neurogenic rejuvenation of the aging mouse brain by young systemic factors. Science 2014;344(6184):630-4. PubMed
5. Flach J, Bakker ST, Mohrin M ym. Replication stress is a potent driver of functional decline in ageing haematopoietic stem cells. Nature 2014;512(7513):198-202. PubMed

 

 

 

 

[Jose_LER]

I haven't read all the entire post, but I think aging is like an orchestra where the music has lost the melody. If aging want to be reversed of if you want to understand it better, you have to tune all the elements that the orchestra is composed of.

 

You've to calibrate all the musical instruments, teach to each musician how, when and what to play, etc...

 

The aged body is mainly a chaotic order. It has to be re-ordered aging with the correct amounts of each element. It's quite difficult.

[someguy92]

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. But we are bombarded non stop by heavy metals as lead, mercury etc., fungus, laboratory created viruses to reduce population, foods are low on nutritions. Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

Edited by someguy92, 11 April 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Jose_LER]

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. (...) Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

 

Of course, that is a point where I also agree with you. Aging has to be seen in a lot of different points of views at the same time because it's a very complex process if you want to understand it all. Toxification is one point of view that I agree.

 

I think the body has to have a specific composition and there are different equations to mathematically describe health and disease. Disease (aging is a disease too) is a change in that mathematical formulation and maybe. There are some works in where the author finds that when there is a specific disease there are specific chemical patterns in the body. Healthy people haven't those patterns present.

 

That is like when there are a lot of people and they collaborate together to bring water from the point A to the point B in space. The first person collect the water in a big glass of water and pass that water to the second man, the second man pass the water to the third and so on... until that liquid arrives to the B point in space. If some man fails to collect that water or only collects a small part of that amount... even 1 man that fails it means that the final result will be different that the optimal case (the whole glass arrives).

 

The body is exactly the same, there are a lot of different guys transporting different substances to different points in a specific time and rythm. As you know the body is non-linear so one small fail in all that process, and the final result will change. A toxified body means there are more interferences in that process so the healthy process is less healthy because there are more failures in the process, affecting the final result. When you eliminate the toxic substances from the body, the cells can communicate more efficiently so that means the process are more complete and exact. The first question we've to answer is to mathematically describe what is a toxic in the body. Health, youth, etc.. is an optimal mathematically state of the body.

Edited by Jose_LER, 11 April 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[Kalliste]

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. But we are bombarded non stop by heavy metals as lead, mercury etc., fungus, laboratory created viruses to reduce population, foods are low on nutritions. Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 11 April 2015 - 07:06 PM.

[LeeYa]

@Jose_LER

 

That's a nice allegory thinking about aging as an orchestra!

 

However, the main problem is that the conductor leaves the hall when the musicians start playing.

He does this for the sake of evolution and thereby killing you. Keeping him in place should be the main task.

 

 

[HighDesertWizard]

 

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. But we are bombarded non stop by heavy metals as lead, mercury etc., fungus, laboratory created viruses to reduce population, foods are low on nutritions. Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

 

 

I'm always amazed at the thought processes of very knowledgeable folks who post at LongeCity... The delay of disease and death by a mere "decade or two at best" is so often mocked... But within that decade or two amazing scientific advance can take place...

 

I concern myself Not At All with what amounts to, Now, some magical scientific cure for aging. I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks... Let's think out loud here... If we could have such a thing, what might it look like?

• We'd want it to address some variable that was predictive of disease and death in a voluminous number of studies.
• We'd want to it address something already known to be important, say, like NF-kB Inhibition before Cytokine Transcription so as to halt Inflammaging...
• Oh, and the evidence about the potential of the BioHack must be about Humans, right?

Hmm... Where might we find something like that?

 

Ah, forget it... This is fantastical thinking about a mere 10 to 20 year BioHack... I apologize for interrupting the discussion of all you really serious people concerned with Longevity issues...

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 11 April 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[corb]

 I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks.

 

So you're looking for unicorns.

[Jose_LER]

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

 

 

@Cosmicalstorm

I think the body can be regenerated if the proper stimulous are present. I think there is too much to discover about biology. We've a very small understanding about how the body works. One of the main technologies that have to be used is big data and artificial intelligence to ask bigger questions and get more precise answers.

There are other technologies to use also but the use of AI and big data will release new answers.

 

Adding one or two decades is a lot of years to the present day. Of course, if you think about adding 300 years.. 10 or 20 years would be nothing. But today 20 years is a lot. Maybe not in a future.

 

 

@Jose_LER

 

That's a nice allegory thinking about aging as an orchestra!

 

However, the main problem is that the conductor leaves the hall when the musicians start playing.

He does this for the sake of evolution and thereby killing you. Keeping him in place should be the main task.

 

Of course, the main and I think the biggest question will be:

"Who is the director and what it needs to retune the whole orchesta?"

 

I think the director is present in the each one of the living beings and it's deeply hidden somewhere. Each time we want to "study" aging we're seeing it and it's very difficult to recognise who is it. At the moment I've an idea about who is the director and I think it could be a hidden electrical mechanism who governs all the biological processes. It can sound like crazy, but I'm examining that idea.

 

 

[HighDesertWizard]

 

 I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks.

 

So you're looking for unicorns.

 

 

corb... I finished editing my post after you posted... I look forward to reading a reply from you that addresses the serious science that I posted links to...
 

Let's be clear... Please explain to us why the studies containing the 3 graphic figures below ought not to be taken seriously or why, we, in the LE Movement shouldn't be aggressively following up on them...

 

How about a Single Study Graphic Figure illustrating a fact-anomaly that the Vagus-HRV-CAIP Nexus and its impact on NF-kB can completely explain IN HUMANS?

• And if that isn't enough to get your attention, how about a set of good old fashioned Population Survival Curves, in which a functioning Vagus Nerve is the Independent Variable? (From Reflex Principles of Immunological Homeostasis.)

• A third Study Snapshot about HRV, IN HUMANS, and, by implication, Vagus-CAIP-NF-kB, just for the fun of it...

 

 

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 11 April 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[corb]

 

 

 I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks.

 

So you're looking for unicorns.

 

 

corb... I finished editing my post after you posted... I look forward to hearing a reply that addresses the serious science that I posted links to...

 

 

Well I can cover a lot of points fast. More like all of them.
The vagus nerve and HRV - only reason HRV has a significant effect on longevity is atherosclerosis. It is not uncommon for healthy children for instance to suffer from episodes of slight arrhythmia. But they have a pliable cardiovascular system so it doesn't do them any harm.

With age most people suffer from at least a lesser form of atherosclerosis. A cardiovascular system composed of hardening and narrowing blood vessels is the perfect environment for severe arrhythmia and cardiac arrest, thrombosis and so on. Naturally people with a better HRV have a slightly better chance of avoiding that. But that doesn't make it a silver bullet.

The people with severe atherosclerosis will still perish to cardiac arrest even if they exercise and there's been hundreds of cases of old adults overworking themselves and perishing from the same disease they were trying to avoid. It's a double edged sword at best.

 

Instead of going for the lesser risk factor I prefer to go for the real killer. That's the real high probability "hack".

[HighDesertWizard]

 

 

 

 I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks.

 

So you're looking for unicorns.

 

 

corb... I finished editing my post after you posted... I look forward to hearing a reply that addresses the serious science that I posted links to...

 

 

Well I can cover a lot of points fast. More like all of them.
The vagus nerve and HRV - only reason HRV has a significant effect on longevity is atherosclerosis. It is not uncommon for healthy children for instance to suffer from episodes of slight arrhythmia. But they have a pliable cardiovascular system so it doesn't do them any harm.

With age most people suffer from at least a lesser form of atherosclerosis. A cardiovascular system composed of hardening and narrowing blood vessels is the perfect environment for severe arrhythmia and cardiac arrest, thrombosis and so on. Naturally people with a better HRV have a slightly better chance of avoiding that. But that doesn't make it a silver bullet.

The people with severe atherosclerosis will still perish to cardiac arrest even if they exercise and there's been hundreds of cases of old adults overworking themselves and perishing from the same disease they were trying to avoid. It's a double edged sword at best.

 

Instead of going for the lesser risk factor I prefer to go for the real killer. That's the real high probability "hack".

 

 

corb... Your statement I've highlighted in red is absolutely not true... I've posted plenty of links in my previous post demonstrating that your statement is not true... Please get yourself educated and get back to us...

[corb]

 

 

 

 

 I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks.

 

So you're looking for unicorns.

 

 

corb... I finished editing my post after you posted... I look forward to hearing a reply that addresses the serious science that I posted links to...

 

 

Well I can cover a lot of points fast. More like all of them.
The vagus nerve and HRV - only reason HRV has a significant effect on longevity is atherosclerosis. It is not uncommon for healthy children for instance to suffer from episodes of slight arrhythmia. But they have a pliable cardiovascular system so it doesn't do them any harm.

With age most people suffer from at least a lesser form of atherosclerosis. A cardiovascular system composed of hardening and narrowing blood vessels is the perfect environment for severe arrhythmia and cardiac arrest, thrombosis and so on. Naturally people with a better HRV have a slightly better chance of avoiding that. But that doesn't make it a silver bullet.

The people with severe atherosclerosis will still perish to cardiac arrest even if they exercise and there's been hundreds of cases of old adults overworking themselves and perishing from the same disease they were trying to avoid. It's a double edged sword at best.

 

Instead of going for the lesser risk factor I prefer to go for the real killer. That's the real high probability "hack".

 

 

corb... Your statement I've highlighted in red is absolutely not true... I've posted plenty of links in my previous post demonstrating that your statement is not true... Please get yourself educated and get back to us...

 

 

What part of it is not true.
Saying go read a hundred articles because "reasons" is not a rebuttal.
A lot of the articles you've posted look at two groups - centenarians and people suffering from cardiovascular disease. Both groups have severe forms of atherosclerosis. If the papers you posted don't look at that it's a problem with the papers and not with my reading of them.

[HighDesertWizard]

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm looking for high probability 5 to 20 year BioHacks.

 

So you're looking for unicorns.

 

 

corb... I finished editing my post after you posted... I look forward to hearing a reply that addresses the serious science that I posted links to...

 

 

Well I can cover a lot of points fast. More like all of them.
The vagus nerve and HRV - only reason HRV has a significant effect on longevity is atherosclerosis. It is not uncommon for healthy children for instance to suffer from episodes of slight arrhythmia. But they have a pliable cardiovascular system so it doesn't do them any harm.

With age most people suffer from at least a lesser form of atherosclerosis. A cardiovascular system composed of hardening and narrowing blood vessels is the perfect environment for severe arrhythmia and cardiac arrest, thrombosis and so on. Naturally people with a better HRV have a slightly better chance of avoiding that. But that doesn't make it a silver bullet.

The people with severe atherosclerosis will still perish to cardiac arrest even if they exercise and there's been hundreds of cases of old adults overworking themselves and perishing from the same disease they were trying to avoid. It's a double edged sword at best.

 

Instead of going for the lesser risk factor I prefer to go for the real killer. That's the real high probability "hack".

 

 

corb... Your statement I've highlighted in red is absolutely not true... I've posted plenty of links in my previous post demonstrating that your statement is not true... Please get yourself educated and get back to us...

 

 

What part of it is not true.
Saying go read a hundred articles because "reasons" is not a rebuttal.
A lot of the articles you've posted look at two groups - centenarians and people suffering from cardiovascular disease. Both groups have severe forms of atherosclerosis. If the papers you posted don't look at that it's a problem with the papers and not with my reading of them.

 

 

corb... I didn't just post links... I also posted the graphic figure below that is the rebuttal... The Explanation of those two Elderly Human Survivor Studies I posted graphic figures for is the same as the Explanation for the Survival Curves below... The Explanation has to do with the Cholinergic Antiinflammatory Pathway (CAIP)... It's Settled Science that the CAIP triggers Higher HRV... And it's Settled Science that the CAIP is implicated in the graphic figure below... THAT is the rebuttal to your false statement that HRV is mostly about atherosclerosis...

 

The fundamental problem here is that you're unfamiliar with what I imagine now to be close to 200 studies about the CAIP...

 

The CAIP was discovered in 1995 by Kevin Tracey. Per ResearchGate.net, Dr. Tracey is a participant in more than 430 scientific studies. In 2009, Dr. Tracey was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by Stockholm's Karolinska Institute, the same Institute that awards Nobel Prizes in Physiology or Medicine...  The CAIP is our major, Innate Mechanism for Inhibiting Inflammation via NF-kB Inhibition just prior to Cytokine Transcription, especially in the Spleen...

 

I believe there is a 5 to 20 year BioHack in it if we can figure out how to manipulate... And we CAN... :-)

 

Dr. Tracey wrote great summary articles about the CAIP in 2002, 2007, and 2012... It's now 2015... 

 

Caveat Emptor... Given 1) Dr. Tracey's credentials, 2) the couple hundred studies about the CAIP already published, and 3) the small sample of the kinds of Human and Mice Survivor Curves that exist that I've posted... It's going to become an increasing embarrassment for self-proclaimed "experts" about Longevity to be unfamiliar with the CAIP...

 

 

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 11 April 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[corb]

 

corb... I didn't just post links... I also posted the graphic figure below that is the rebuttal... The Explanation of those two Elderly Human Survivor Studies I posted graphic figures for is the same as the Explanation for the Survival Curves below... The Explanation has to do with the Cholinergic Antiinflammatory Pathway (CAIP)... It's Settled Science that the CAIP triggers Higher HRV... And it's Settled Science that the CAIP is implicated in the graphic figure below... THAT is the rebuttal to your false statement that HRV is mostly about atherosclerosis...

 

The fundamental problem here is that you're unfamiliar with what I imagine now to be close to 200 studies about the CAIP...

 

The CAIP was discovered in 1995 by Kevin Tracey. Per ResearchGate.net, Dr. Tracey is a participant in more than 430 scientific studies. In 2009, Dr. Tracey was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by Stockholm's Karolinska Institute, the same Institute that awards Nobel Prizes in Physiology or Medicine...  The CAIP is our major, Innate Mechanism for Inhibiting Inflammation via NF-kB Inhibition just prior to Cytokine Transcription, especially in the Spleen...

 

I believe there is a 5 to 20 year BioHack in it if we can figure out how to manipulate... And we CAN... :-)

 

Dr. Tracey wrote great summary articles about the CAIP in 2002, 2007, and 2012... It's now 2015... 

 

Caveat Emptor... Given 1) Dr. Tracey's credentials, 2) the couple hundred studies about the CAIP already published, and 3) the small sample of the kinds of Human and Mice Survivor Curves that exist that I've posted... It's going to become an increasing embarrassment for self-proclaimed "experts" about Longevity to be unfamiliar with the CAIP...

 

 

 

 

Have you read and understood what the paper from which the image originates is saying is my only question?

 

 

Controlling inflammation pathways only has significant beneficial effects for auto immune disease and needlessly extreme immune responses like the ones talked about in the paper - sepsis, inflammatory arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, hemorrhagic shock. You can't use this technique of inhibition to treat age related increase in inflammation because: it's full body and inhibiting an already inferior immune system will create more risks than benefits, not to mention inhibiting it full time is a preposterous idea altogether. This research is interesting as far as extreme inflammatory responses are concerned but it has no clear benefits to life expectancy. It has some implications for quality of life when you consider arthritis but that's about it.

No. Taking control over this pathway cannot give you twenty years because it's dealing with inflammation the same way we deal with it now, cutting of the response - albeit at a different stage - without dealing with the problem at it's core. To begin with this research is so "interesting" because it gives an option to disable inflammation locally, it's not meant as a whole body anti-inflammation therapy, that's not even a thing no one wants to deal with inflamaging that way. You need an inflammatory response to fight of infections - and unlike inhibiting inflammation at the cellular level inhibiting it at a the level of nervous system could be more effective but that's not necessarily a possitive.

 

One last thing, everything concerning cardiovascular health is about atherosclerosis.

HRV is more of a diagnostic tool than a risk factor, it can be affected in a hundred ways.

Edited by corb, 11 April 2015 - 11:28 PM.

[Kalliste]

 

 

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. But we are bombarded non stop by heavy metals as lead, mercury etc., fungus, laboratory created viruses to reduce population, foods are low on nutritions. Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

 

 

I'm always amazed at the thought processes of very knowledgeable folks who post at LongeCity... The delay of disease and death by a mere "decade or two at best" is so often mocked... But within that decade or two amazing scientific advance can take place...

 

 

I'm all in favor of taking various plausible actions to reach LEV. But those interventions are way too popular, the medical community should focus on repair-research. Right now there are thousands of researchers that are spending their entire intellect and time trying to figure out how to make fat people eat less and so on. We are wasting valuable time promoting life-style interventions as a cure it all. At best it will give you a decade, but for moste people I doubt it will give much lifespan increase at all. They can only hope to increase their health-span. Look at Spindlers little rats.

 

 

 

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

 

 

@Cosmicalstorm

I think the body can be regenerated if the proper stimulous are present. I think there is too much to discover about biology. We've a very small understanding about how the body works. One of the main technologies that have to be used is big data and artificial intelligence to ask bigger questions and get more precise answers.

There are other technologies to use also but the use of AI and big data will release new answers.

 

Adding one or two decades is a lot of years to the present day. Of course, if you think about adding 300 years.. 10 or 20 years would be nothing. But today 20 years is a lot. Maybe not in a future.

 

 

Please tell me how you will make the body fix the big list of SENS-damages then, hopefully in a post without the three currently most popular tech-buzzwords.

 

[mpe]

Seems partially or completely silencing 2 genes can do wonders for your stem cell numbers and activity

Attached Files

•  blocking two genes.docx   15.85KB   16 downloads

[HighDesertWizard]

 

 

corb... I didn't just post links... I also posted the graphic figure below that is the rebuttal... The Explanation of those two Elderly Human Survivor Studies I posted graphic figures for is the same as the Explanation for the Survival Curves below... The Explanation has to do with the Cholinergic Antiinflammatory Pathway (CAIP)... It's Settled Science that the CAIP triggers Higher HRV... And it's Settled Science that the CAIP is implicated in the graphic figure below... THAT is the rebuttal to your false statement that HRV is mostly about atherosclerosis...

 

The fundamental problem here is that you're unfamiliar with what I imagine now to be close to 200 studies about the CAIP...

 

The CAIP was discovered in 1995 by Kevin Tracey. Per ResearchGate.net, Dr. Tracey is a participant in more than 430 scientific studies. In 2009, Dr. Tracey was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by Stockholm's Karolinska Institute, the same Institute that awards Nobel Prizes in Physiology or Medicine...  The CAIP is our major, Innate Mechanism for Inhibiting Inflammation via NF-kB Inhibition just prior to Cytokine Transcription, especially in the Spleen...

 

I believe there is a 5 to 20 year BioHack in it if we can figure out how to manipulate... And we CAN... :-)

 

Dr. Tracey wrote great summary articles about the CAIP in 2002, 2007, and 2012... It's now 2015... 

 

Caveat Emptor... Given 1) Dr. Tracey's credentials, 2) the couple hundred studies about the CAIP already published, and 3) the small sample of the kinds of Human and Mice Survivor Curves that exist that I've posted... It's going to become an increasing embarrassment for self-proclaimed "experts" about Longevity to be unfamiliar with the CAIP...

 

<< SNIPPED THE GRAPHIC FIGURE >>

 

Have you read and understood what the paper from which the image originates is saying is my only question?

 

Controlling inflammation pathways only has significant beneficial effects for auto immune disease and needlessly extreme immune responses like the ones talked about in the paper - sepsis, inflammatory arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, hemorrhagic shock. You can't use this technique of inhibition to treat age related increase in inflammation because: it's full body and inhibiting an already inferior immune system will create more risks than benefits, not to mention inhibiting it full time is a preposterous idea altogether. This research is interesting as far as extreme inflammatory responses are concerned but it has no clear benefits to life expectancy. It has some implications for quality of life when you consider arthritis but that's about it.

No. Taking control over this pathway cannot give you twenty years because it's dealing with inflammation the same way we deal with it now, cutting of the response - albeit at a different stage - without dealing with the problem at it's core. To begin with this research is so "interesting" because it gives an option to disable inflammation locally, it's not meant as a whole body anti-inflammation therapy, that's not even a thing no one wants to deal with inflamaging that way. You need an inflammatory response to fight of infections - and unlike inhibiting inflammation at the cellular level inhibiting it at a the level of nervous system could be more effective but that's not necessarily a possitive.

 

One last thing, everything concerning cardiovascular health is about atherosclerosis.

HRV is more of a diagnostic tool than a risk factor, it can be affected in a hundred ways.

 

corb... I have two replies for you… The first below and the second in a following post...

 

You're so busy figuring out how to defend the position you're emotionally tied to that you're not paying attention to what I actually write... And, given that you're uninformed about the science of the Cholinergic Antiinflammatory Pathway, you continue to make statements that are demonstrably False based on evidence I’ve already posted…

 

You wrote: This research is interesting as far as extreme inflammatory responses are concerned but it has no clear benefits to life expectancy. It has some implications for quality of life when you consider arthritis but that's about it.

 

In fact, I already posted study links and 2 graphic figures that Falsify that statement… And I wrote...

 

The Explanation of those two Elderly Human Survivor Studies I posted graphic figures for is the same as the Explanation for the Survival Curves below [in that mouse study]... The Explanation has to do with the Cholinergic Antiinflammatory Pathway (CAIP)... It's Settled Science that the CAIP triggers Higher HRV... And it's Settled Science that the CAIP is implicated in the graphic figure below [i.e., that mouse study]...

 

Here's Tracey's "Wiring Diagram" of the CAIP from his 2007 Study Summary...

 

 

Here's Kevin Tracey's study summary entitled...

The pulse of inflammation: heart rate variability, the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway and implications for therapy

 

corb: We Know that the CAIP has "clear benefits to life expectancy" because we know the CAIP triggers Higher HRV and we know that Higher HRV is correlated with Elder Human Survival from multiple studies... I’m happy to repost the same 2 study graphic figures that specifically Falsify your statement that the CAIP “has no clear benefits to life expectancy.” 

 

 

        

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 12 April 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[LeeYa]

@HighDesertWizard

 

How do you biohack the CIAP personally?

[Jose_LER]

 

Please tell me how you will make the body fix the big list of SENS-damages then, hopefully in a post without the three currently most popular tech-buzzwords.

 

It's quite difficult to say here at this moment that there is a solution, but evidently there will be at least one. I'm just exploring the possibility that the body is like a battery and the aging mechanism could be related with the discharge of the battery.

 

It seems that the repairing mechanisms in the body produce very specific electromagnetic signals. The key is to know why the body produces them, how and what they do. Maybe that point of view could be used in the study of aging too.

Edited by Jose_LER, 13 April 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[Kalliste]

What are you talking about? Do you have any references or is this wwishful thinking? How do we remove lipofuscin with EM radiation?

[Jose_LER]

What are you talking about? Do you have any references or is this wwishful thinking? How do we remove lipofuscin with EM radiation?

It's too early to say anything about this subject. It's just an idea I'm carefully observing for years. There are some questions that have to be answered before giving results. I've wrote here about what I think to comment part of how I see the aging mechanism.

[someguy92]

 

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. But we are bombarded non stop by heavy metals as lead, mercury etc., fungus, laboratory created viruses to reduce population, foods are low on nutritions. Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

 

For start who wants to live forever? Nobody, everything has its beginning and an end. Its all about the path, goal it just temporary, but the experience is important.

 

Secondly, wrong. We have all regeneration processes we need in our DNA, we have them encoded, since we are born we ARE able to fully regenerate, since we are fetus, we have all the information of regeneration. Tell me how otherwise we are born from absolutely nothing from sperm and an egg? Please think and not just mindlessly eat what you are given. If medicine would say mercury is healthy, would you eat it? How come chinese scientists are able to create teeth from urine? How come they have created created working and pumping heart? How come they are on the verge of creating organs with 3D printer? Its absolutely easy, because what you need, information and few stem cells , wich is already within you. Its like with drugs. You know how drugs work, for instance cocaine? It just increases dopamine concentration, it just stimaulates your brain. You dont get high from drugs, you get high from your own hormones, thats the irony, drugs just stimulate proper parts of brain. You can get high yourself, even without drugs with proper thought patterns. Or what about self hypnosis? What about those shaolin monks who can disable pain receptros in their body? What about regulating your own temperature or heart beat?Dont you think you can activate your own stem cells? Dont you think your thoughts are able to do that? You know thoughts are more powerfull than you can imagine, they are electromagnetic waves, if you dont believe me from physics everything emits electromagentic waves and I mean everything, if you tell otherwise you know nothing about physics and you know what electromagnetic waves are? Yes right in laymans term radiation, you know what radiation did to children of chernobyl? Dont you think you can transcript DNA with electromagnetic waves? Another limb? Another head? Deformed body? Or monks who conserved themselvestrough meditation? Thoughts are far more powerfull than you can imagine.

 

Lastly, I dont care if you believe me. I know I wont have this body forever, I know one day it will all end, but thank God everything ends. I want to have my youth and maintain proper health so I can do things that matter to me. I know one day I wont wake up but thats good. And well, those in power dont want people to live long, because humans are overpopulated. In the old days, there were documented people who lived 200 years or more, nowadays there are documented people who are 80 years old but look 30 years old. So for me age is just unrepaired damage to body, its not only proved but I have seen it with my own eyes, one day we will die, but I want to die with good health and young spirit. I dont know if you belive in higher stuff, but for me if its time to go its time to go, but when I am still here, I want to stay healthy and fresh. Its pretty easy to maintain youth once you understand stuff, but cheating death is impossible. Believe what you want, do what you want unless you wont hurt others.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Who wants to live forever?   Well, I want 

 

There is such a topic on the longecity forum, though.

 

Did you really de-age your mother by detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins, nutrition, medication and lifestyle? It is hard for me to believe it. Many people do it. Many of them die 70-80 years old. People, who don't do that live to their 90-100-100+ years.

[Kalliste]

 

 

From my experience and self conducted experiments, yes aging is just un repaired damage to body, nothing else. I have witnessed it first hand, I tried to de-age my mother by simple regeneration of body, detoxication, liver cleansing herbs, vitamins to repair most damaged areas, fight nutrition deficiency by applying needed nutritions, buying proper medication for proper problem and proper lifestyle choices and voila she literally deaged before my eyes. All liver spots almost gone, skin elastic as she was 30 years old, energetic, youthfull. Mindset is important too as mindset changes every single process in our body, its all interlinked. Even stem cells, they are in our body, we have full regeneration in our DNA, its in our cells, we can do it. Thats why some people who are 70 years old look 30 years old and many 40 year olds look like 70 years old. But we are bombarded non stop by heavy metals as lead, mercury etc., fungus, laboratory created viruses to reduce population, foods are low on nutritions. Its very simple, our body is our temple, we have to take care of it, study it, gain knowledge and in the age of internet its easier than ever, thats what differs those in power with those who are eaten by the system, knowledge.

We can not regenerate on our own. All those actions you list are nice but they will only delay your death by a decade or two, at best.

 

For start who wants to live forever? Nobody, everything has its beginning and an end. Its all about the path, goal it just temporary, but the experience is important.

 

Secondly, wrong. We have all regeneration processes we need in our DNA, we have them encoded, since we are born we ARE able to fully regenerate, since we are fetus, we have all the information of regeneration. Tell me how otherwise we are born from absolutely nothing from sperm and an egg? Please think and not just mindlessly eat what you are given. If medicine would say mercury is healthy, would you eat it? How come chinese scientists are able to create teeth from urine? How come they have created created working and pumping heart? How come they are on the verge of creating organs with 3D printer? Its absolutely easy, because what you need, information and few stem cells , wich is already within you. Its like with drugs. You know how drugs work, for instance cocaine? It just increases dopamine concentration, it just stimaulates your brain. You dont get high from drugs, you get high from your own hormones, thats the irony, drugs just stimulate proper parts of brain. You can get high yourself, even without drugs with proper thought patterns. Or what about self hypnosis? What about those shaolin monks who can disable pain receptros in their body? What about regulating your own temperature or heart beat?Dont you think you can activate your own stem cells? Dont you think your thoughts are able to do that? You know thoughts are more powerfull than you can imagine, they are electromagnetic waves, if you dont believe me from physics everything emits electromagentic waves and I mean everything, if you tell otherwise you know nothing about physics and you know what electromagnetic waves are? Yes right in laymans term radiation, you know what radiation did to children of chernobyl? Dont you think you can transcript DNA with electromagnetic waves? Another limb? Another head? Deformed body? Or monks who conserved themselvestrough meditation? Thoughts are far more powerfull than you can imagine.

 

Lastly, I dont care if you believe me. I know I wont have this body forever, I know one day it will all end, but thank God everything ends. I want to have my youth and maintain proper health so I can do things that matter to me. I know one day I wont wake up but thats good. And well, those in power dont want people to live long, because humans are overpopulated. In the old days, there were documented people who lived 200 years or more, nowadays there are documented people who are 80 years old but look 30 years old. So for me age is just unrepaired damage to body, its not only proved but I have seen it with my own eyes, one day we will die, but I want to die with good health and young spirit. I dont know if you belive in higher stuff, but for me if its time to go its time to go, but when I am still here, I want to stay healthy and fresh. Its pretty easy to maintain youth once you understand stuff, but cheating death is impossible. Believe what you want, do what you want unless you wont hurt others.

 

 

Are you smoking cannabis or something. I'm not going to enter a weird rant-ramble war. Have a nice day!

[Jose_LER]

For start who wants to live forever? Nobody, everything has its beginning and an end. Its all about the path, goal it just temporary, but the experience is important.

 

 

 

Secondly, wrong. We have all regeneration processes we need in our DNA, we have them encoded, since we are born we ARE able to fully regenerate, since we are fetus, we have all the information of regeneration. Tell me how otherwise we are born from absolutely nothing from sperm and an egg? Please think and not just mindlessly eat what you are given. If medicine would say mercury is healthy, would you eat it? How come chinese scientists are able to create teeth from urine? How come they have created created working and pumping heart? How come they are on the verge of creating organs with 3D printer? Its absolutely easy, because what you need, information and few stem cells , wich is already within you. Its like with drugs. You know how drugs work, for instance cocaine? It just increases dopamine concentration, it just stimaulates your brain. You dont get high from drugs, you get high from your own hormones, thats the irony, drugs just stimulate proper parts of brain. You can get high yourself, even without drugs with proper thought patterns. Or what about self hypnosis? What about those shaolin monks who can disable pain receptros in their body? What about regulating your own temperature or heart beat?Dont you think you can activate your own stem cells? Dont you think your thoughts are able to do that? You know thoughts are more powerfull than you can imagine, they are electromagnetic waves, if you dont believe me from physics everything emits electromagentic waves and I mean everything, if you tell otherwise you know nothing about physics and you know what electromagnetic waves are? Yes right in laymans term radiation, you know what radiation did to children of chernobyl? Dont you think you can transcript DNA with electromagnetic waves? Another limb? Another head? Deformed body? Or monks who conserved themselvestrough meditation? Thoughts are far more powerfull than you can imagine.

 

Lastly, I dont care if you believe me. I know I wont have this body forever, I know one day it will all end, but thank God everything ends. I want to have my youth and maintain proper health so I can do things that matter to me. I know one day I wont wake up but thats good. And well, those in power dont want people to live long, because humans are overpopulated. In the old days, there were documented people who lived 200 years or more, nowadays there are documented people who are 80 years old but look 30 years old. So for me age is just unrepaired damage to body, its not only proved but I have seen it with my own eyes, one day we will die, but I want to die with good health and young spirit. I dont know if you belive in higher stuff, but for me if its time to go its time to go, but when I am still here, I want to stay healthy and fresh. Its pretty easy to maintain youth once you understand stuff, but cheating death is impossible. Believe what you want, do what you want unless you wont hurt others.

 

I'm just exploring that concept for years. Aging is not unrepaired damage. Aging is wrong construction of new cells, that it could be similar to damage. They're not damaged at all, they're a part of an uncomplete cycle. It can be seen as damage if you want. In some point of view I would see that process as an unrepaired and damaged cell. Of course.

 

I'm seeing aging as a part of a very complex electromagnetic process within the body. I've been speaking about this subject here in the forum. Aging I think it's more about physics and information technology rather than medicine.

 

In some small experimentations I've been observing some processes that are constant in a diseased/aged body, related with energy and biological conditions. So, of course, I partially agree with you.

Edited by Jose_LER, 14 April 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[HighDesertWizard]

Someone with the Brain of the Scarecrow and the Courage of the Lion in Oz says that my immediately prior post is Off-Topic...

 

ROFL...

 

Let's think through the meaning of the graphic figure in that post...

 

xEva began this thread with a proposal that we discuss the following statement... Aging is the progressive failure of the existing repair mechanisms to do their job.

 

If you're keeping up with the science I've recently posted, you know that the first pic below is evidence that age correlated damage to Vagus-CAIP Signaling has a profoundly negative impact on Longevity, measurable via a computed statistic, HRV, and taking place as a result of Cytokine Transcription by NF-kB, especially in Splenic Macrophages (I haven't posted about Splenic Macrophages yet)...

 

It's a big deal that damage to Vagus-CAIP Signaling doesn't get repaired...

 

Oh, but wait... There is an Astounding Fact that LeeYa alludes to in asking the following question...

 

@HighDesertWizard

 

How do you biohack the CIAP personally?

 

Evolution has been Selecting for Increasing Personal Positive Cognitive Control of Physical Health in Humans by providing us with Multiple, Diverse Means to Stimulate the Vagus Nerve to trigger the CAIP. We can do repair ourselves by Conscious Means...

 

Don't have time to provide a link... But think through the meaning of Elissa Epel's work about Mindfulness, Meditation, and Telemeres... She has found, both, that 1) Meditation Increases HRV, and 2) Meditation increases Telomerase Expression... Do you think those two findings are a mere coincidence?

 

I established a forum thread a while back to talk about various means to stimulate the Vagus Nerve and/or trigger the CAIP. I've been focusing on the science more than practice lately, so I haven't posted there in a while.

 

Short Answer... Get yourself a HeartMath emWave2 device to begin to train yourself to learn what a high HRV state feels like...  I have a lot more to say about this...

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 14 April 2015 - 01:14 PM.