471 replies to this topic

[Primal]

 Your attacks on his character really serve no purpose outside of taking this thread off topic.

 

 

My problem is not that he's making up stories, but that he's using those stories to discourage the other longecity members from trying to find cheaper sources of nicotinamide riboside. Chromadex should pay him for his hard work (they might be paying him already  ).

 

Many people here have shown interest in this quest, and if we all got organized we could ask for samples, testing, etc of the various suppliers, in a methodical way. If no other supplier can currently provide nicotinamide riboside without too much contamination, it's just a matter of time until some will. I for one is interested to follow those developments, as I'm sure many other members here are. Every time someone shows interest in doing so, Maxwatt regurgitate his usual bs stories about his contacts with a chinese herbalist blah blah and implicitely uses his status as a long time poster, moderator, etc to discourage that person in his attempt. Longecity should not accept that from one of his moderator, and I'm hoping other moderators and/or owners will have a chat with him regarding this issue. 

[Primal]

 

Now I have no Idea the implications of the following article but it's the first news of the New-year mentioning NR. Let's keep them coming guys.

 

Study Findings from GlaxoSmithKline Provide New Insights into Biochemistry and Biophysics (A pre-steady state and steady state kinetic analysis of the N-ribosyl hydrolase activity of hCD157)

 

 

 

I looked at that rapidly, my quick read is that GlaxoSmithKline is interested in the NAD bandwagon but in order to make money they need to investigate the pathways involved and see if they can develop drugs that target those pathways. Or they might use that knowledge to develop and patent substances closely related to nicotinamide riboside/nicotinic acid riboside, that still feed into those pathways but that would offer some advantages over nicotinamide riboside/nicotinic acid riboside. Unless they get a big breakthrough, I personally I'm not really interested in this quest. Nicotinamide riboside seems to be working well in studies, plus being the natural form present in milk etc is reassuring that its toxicity/side effects/unwanted consequences is likely to be low. That being said, a drug that boost Nicotinamide phosphoribosyltransferase (Nampt) a lot with very low side effect could be interesting.  

[PWAIN]

My problem is not that he's making up stories, but that he's using those stories to discourage the other longecity members from trying to find cheaper sources of nicotinamide riboside. Chromadex should pay him for his hard work (they might be paying him already  ).

 

 

He is trying to stop some rather naive people sending great wads of unreturnable money to Chinese suppliers and getting rubbish in return. Those same people will whine loudly and endlessly when it all goes pear shaped. Max does buisness in China and has contacts there which is more than most people here can say. I think I'll trust him anyday over you and your detractors. He has not just beenaround for 9 years, he has a huge amount of ₮ thanks to his positive contribution to this community and I remember his posts in the past being well worth reading. He has earned my trust and respect which I honestly cannot say about you since I barely know you.

 

As for the comment about him working for Chromadex, I say either put up or shut the FCUK UP!!! If you don't have any evidence to indicate that to be the case, then don't say it. You are attempting to smear his name based on nothing. You lose any respect I may have had for you for doing that.

 

 

Many people here have shown interest in this quest, and if we all got organized we could ask for samples, testing, etc of the various suppliers, in a methodical way. If no other supplier can currently provide nicotinamide riboside without too much contamination, it's just a matter of time until some will. I for one is interested to follow those developments, as I'm sure many other members here are. Every time someone shows interest in doing so, Maxwatt regurgitate his usual bs stories about his contacts with a chinese herbalist blah blah and implicitely uses his status as a long time poster, moderator, etc to discourage that person in his attempt. Longecity should not accept that from one of his moderator, and I'm hoping other moderators and/or owners will have a chat with him regarding this issue. 

 

Pretty much everyone here would like to get their hands on large quantities of cheap high quality NR and we would all like a supplier to come up with the goods. That doesn't mean that we should all act unreasonably and go crazy trying all the Alibaba rubbish that is put out. I'm pretty sure Max would be a major purchaser if he could get his hands on some of the stuff at a decent price and I'm sure he is just as keen as you.

 

As for being a long time poster and moderator, that has nothing to do with what he says other than to validate that he is a genuine guy after the same things as the rest of us. Why exactly shoud moderators not be allowed to express their views and opinions here? He has not to my knowldge used any moderator powers to manipulate the discussion. Perhaps hang around for longer, help others and provide inciteful information and over time, others might come to respect you too but until then keep your manners in.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited by PWAIN, 08 January 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[midas]

Ok guys enough, let's not debate any vender or purity issues here. We created a board for that discussion. This board is primarily for Nicotinamide Riboside Current News and Updates but if it's related to NR or is related to NAD news I'll have no problem with it here. Over the holidays there has been a decline in publications related to Nicotinamide Riboside and we've had little else to talk about but that news drought is about to change.

 

Now I have no Idea the implications of the following article but it's the first news of the New-year mentioning NR. Let's keep them coming guys.

 

Study Findings from GlaxoSmithKline Provide New Insights into Biochemistry and Biophysics (A pre-steady state and steady state kinetic analysis of the N-ribosyl hydrolase activity of hCD157)

 

01/07/2015 | 08:39pm US/Eastern

 

Study Findings from GlaxoSmithKline Provide New Insights into Biochemistry and Biophysics (A pre-steady state and steady state kinetic analysis of the N-ribosyl hydrolase activity of hCD157)

 

By a News Reporter-Staff News Editor at Life Science Weekly -- Current study results on Life Science Research have been published. According to news originatingfrom Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, by NewsRx correspondents, research stated, "HCD157 catalyzes the hydrolysis of nicotinamide riboside (NR) and nicotinic acid riboside (NAR). The release of nicotinamide or nicotinic acid from NR or NAR was confirmed by spectrophotometric, HPLC and NMR analyses. hCD157 is inactivated by a mechanism-based inhibitor, 2'-deoxy-2'-fluoro-nicotin-amide arabinoside (fNR)."

 

Our news journalists obtained a quote from the research GlaxoSmithKlinefrom, "Modification of the enzyme during the catalytic cycle by NR, NAR, or fNR increased the intrinsic protein fluorescence by approximately 50%. Pre-steady state and steady state data were used to derive a minimal kinetic scheme for the hydrolysis of NR. After initial complex formation a reversible step (360 and 30 s(-1)) is followed by a slow irreversible step (0.1 s(-1)) that defined the rate limiting step, or k(cat). The calculated K-Mapp value for NR in the hydrolytic reaction is 6 nM. The values of the kinetic constants suggest that one biological function of cell-surface hCD157 is to bind and slowly hydrolyze NR, possibly converting it to a ligand-activated receptor. Differences in substrate preference between hCD157 and hCD38 were rationalized through a comparison of the crystal structures of the two proteins."

 

According to the news editors, the research concluded: "This comparison identified several residues in hCD157 (F108 and F173) that can potentially hinder the binding of dinucleotide substrates (NAD(+))."

 

For more information on this research see: A pre-steady state and steady state kinetic analysis of the N-ribosylhydrolase activity of hCD157.Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics, 2014;564():156-163. Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics can be contacted at: Elsevier Science Inc,360 Park Ave South, New York, NY 10010-1710, USA. (Elsevier - www.elsevier.com; Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics - www.elsevier.com/wps/product/cws_home/622787)

 

The news correspondents report that additional information may be obtained from F. Preugschat, GlaxoSmithKline, Res Triangle Pk, NC 27709, United States. Additional authors for this research include L.H. Carter, E.E. Boros, D.J.T. Porter, E.L. Stewart and L.M. Shewchuk (see also Life Science Research).

Keywords for this news article include: Hydrolases, United States, North Carolina, Enzymes and Coenzymes, Life Science Research, Research Triangle Park, North and Central America

 

Our reports deliver fact-based news of research and discoveries from around the world. Copyright 2015, NewsRx LLC

© 2015 NewsRx LLC

 

 

 

 

 

Now I have no Idea the implications of the following article but it's the first news of the New-year mentioning NR. Let's keep them coming guys.

 

Study Findings from GlaxoSmithKline Provide New Insights into Biochemistry and Biophysics (A pre-steady state and steady state kinetic analysis of the N-ribosyl hydrolase activity of hCD157)

 

 

 

I looked at that rapidly, my quick read is that GlaxoSmithKline is interested in the NAD bandwagon but in order to make money they need to investigate the pathways involved and see if they can develop drugs that target those pathways. Or they might use that knowledge to develop and patent substances closely related to nicotinamide riboside/nicotinic acid riboside, that still feed into those pathways but that would offer some advantages over nicotinamide riboside/nicotinic acid riboside. Unless they get a big breakthrough, I personally I'm not really interested in this quest. Nicotinamide riboside seems to be working well in studies, plus being the natural form present in milk etc is reassuring that its toxicity/side effects/unwanted consequences is likely to be low. That being said, a drug that boost Nicotinamide phosphoribosyltransferase (Nampt) a lot with very low side effect could be interesting.  

 

 

I'm not 100% sure but I think this is all part of the same thing.....Sinclair sold a company (Sirtris) which was researching anti ageing compounds to GSK a few years ago , for $750 million and GSK (GlaxoSmithKline) has since closed that company. Here is an article which explains some of what has gone on since..... http://www.xconomy.c...er-720m-buyout/

[Kevnzworld]

I'm wondering when the results of chromadex's pharma kinetics studies will be published.
AFAIK we still don't know what happens to NR after ingestion or if it boosts NAD when taken orally and if so at what dose

[Primal]

I'm wondering when the results of chromadex's pharma kinetics studies will be published.
AFAIK we still don't know what happens to NR after ingestion or if it boosts NAD when taken orally and if so at what dose

 

I think we were all expecting the PK results sooner, I wonder what is delaying their release. One hypothesis among many others is that NR is in fact significantly hydrolyzed in the intestine into nicotinamide and riboside, and that chromadex is wondering what to do, and potentially that HPN heard about it and this would have helped them decide to produce a powder aimed at sublingual use. We need to keep in mind that the study dosage of 400-500mg/kg/day are high enough that they could very well overwhelm the intestinal hydrolysis enzymes, hence still get cellular delivery of oral NR. 

 

Another hypothesis is that they decided to test NAD levels, and realized that the 3 doses in the PK study were too low to produce the results they hoped for. Yet another is that sellers are preparing new products and/or chromadex is preparing a large marketing campaign and want the release of the PK study to be part of this launch. Time might tell. 

[saraho]

https://www.youtube....h?v=YbvSEob-ebc

Liver Tumors disappear when given a Vitamin B-3 precursor - Video Presentation

[Bryan_S]

 

I'm wondering when the results of chromadex's pharma kinetics studies will be published.
AFAIK we still don't know what happens to NR after ingestion or if it boosts NAD when taken orally and if so at what dose

 

I think we were all expecting the PK results sooner, I wonder what is delaying their release. One hypothesis among many others is that NR is in fact significantly hydrolyzed in the intestine into nicotinamide and riboside, and that chromadex is wondering what to do, and potentially that HPN heard about it and this would have helped them decide to produce a powder aimed at sublingual use. We need to keep in mind that the study dosage of 400-500mg/kg/day are high enough that they could very well overwhelm the intestinal hydrolysis enzymes, hence still get cellular delivery of oral NR. 

 

Another hypothesis is that they decided to test NAD levels, and realized that the 3 doses in the PK study were too low to produce the results they hoped for. Yet another is that sellers are preparing new products and/or chromadex is preparing a large marketing campaign and want the release of the PK study to be part of this launch. Time might tell. 

 

 

Let's not start rumors. I'm not the only one who has been asking for a sublingual product. Some of us are just trying to maximize our investment and increase the Biological activity. I see this HPN offer as a simple response to demand and we on Longecity have helped create that demand.

 

I also don't see the 3 doses studied not producing effects. I however thought it should have included 2 and 3 gram dosages but I don't have the medical background to make that argument. Many of us on this forum are realizing the benefits even if we don't have a medical staff to tell us we are. I believe since much of what we are taking is recycled to be used again, higher doses just kick start the benefits sooner rather than later. Unfortunately it may be years before we'll see a study to determine suitable maintenance levels once a regimen is started.

 

 

There are a number of "related" studies awaiting publication that would be of great interest. Here is one I've been waiting on for some time. Safety Study of Nicotinamide to Treat Alzheimer's Disease This one started in 2007 and some would say it's publication is long overdue.

 

We currently have 3 human studies on Nicotinamide Riboside. One completed and 2 in the wings. All of us are intensely interested because we want to see some validation of our monies spent and some of us are getting anxious and rightly so.

 

I think these studies normally take awhile to publish. Anyone on the research side want to comment to our forum about how long these things take?

 

Unless you're someone like Sinclair, who is trying to keep a continual buzz going everyone else just seems to take their time to get it right. My son was involved in a physics publication some years back and it took almost a year before the paper received peer review.

Edited by Bryan_S, 09 January 2015 - 06:46 AM.

[Primal]

 

 

Let's not start rumors.  ...  My son was involved in a physics publication some years back and it took almost a year before the paper received peer review.

 

 

I'm not starting rumours, just mentioning 3 hypothesis among many others. Last summer when they announced the PK study the timeline they had given for results made me believe that they would not be waiting for publication in a peer reviewed journal before they release the results. Maybe in fact they are, which as you said can easily take several months. Then a journal can eventually decide not to publish it, in which case you need to submit to another peer-reviewed journal and it takes a few more months right there. If they go that route, it would not be surprising to not get results for several more months. Also, if they go that route it could mean that the results they got are very good. 

 

anyway there are so many hypotheses, at this point its all speculation. doesnt mean we cant discuss it, but not necessarily productive to do so

[Bryan_S]

As the anxiety of not hearing results grows, so will our speculation, its natural. Charles Brenner I believe is taking a peer reviewed path and your guess is as good as mine about publication timelines.

[Primal]

New NR source found!! I talked to one of my best chinese connection and 15 days ago while he was concocting an herbal potion the smell of his elixir seem to have attracted a fat white-bearded white man dressed in red who revealed to him the only chinese lab able to make NR with more than 30% purity. That lab has in fact reached a purity of 87%, but the remaining 13% is unknown matter - potentially an aphrodisiac made of unicorn's horn. A doctor that had been using very high dose NR since a few years before NR was first synthesized clued them as to the recipe. 

 

Now sit back, relax and live in fantasy as large amounts of cheap NR will be automatically flowing your way as soon as we get the lab to stop putting unicorn's horn powder into the recipe. Taking a pro-active and methodical approach to finding non-chromadex NR could enrage the NR gods and make the delivery fail entirely. 

[midas]

 

New NR source found!! I talked to one of my best chinese connection and 15 days ago while he was concocting an herbal potion the smell of his elixir seem to have attracted a fat white-bearded white man dressed in red who revealed to him the only chinese lab able to make NR with more than 30% purity. That lab has in fact reached a purity of 87%, but the remaining 13% is unknown matter - potentially an aphrodisiac made of unicorn's horn. A doctor that had been using very high dose NR since a few years before NR was first synthesized clued them as to the recipe. 

 

Now sit back, relax and live in fantasy as large amounts of cheap NR will be automatically flowing your way as soon as we get the lab to stop putting unicorn's horn powder into the recipe. Taking a pro-active and methodical approach to finding non-chromadex NR could enrage the NR gods and make the delivery fail entirely. 

 

 

 

 

Brilliant....

 

 

..

[Bryan_S]

 

New NR source found!! I talked to one of my best chineseconnection and 15 days ago while he was concocting an herbal potion the smell of his elixir seem to have attracted a fat white-bearded white man dressed in red who revealed to him the only chinese lab able to make NR with more than 30% purity. That lab has in fact reached a purity of 87%, but the remaining 13% is unknown matter - potentially an aphrodisiac made of unicorn's horn. A doctor that had been using very high dose NR since a few years before NR was first synthesized clued them as to the recipe. 

 

Now sit back, relax and live in fantasy as large amounts of cheap NR will be automatically flowing your way as soon as we get the lab to stop putting unicorn's horn powder into the recipe. Taking a pro-active and methodical approach to finding non-chromadex NR could enrage the NR gods and make the delivery fail entirely. 

 

 

I don't see my reply from earlier so I'm losing it. A bit off topic and more of a vender development post, however your find need confirmation and testing, which we all await. 

[mikeinnaples]

 

 

New NR source found!! I talked to one of my best chinese connection and 15 days ago while he was concocting an herbal potion the smell of his elixir seem to have attracted a fat white-bearded white man dressed in red who revealed to him the only chinese lab able to make NR with more than 30% purity. That lab has in fact reached a purity of 87%, but the remaining 13% is unknown matter - potentially an aphrodisiac made of unicorn's horn. A doctor that had been using very high dose NR since a few years before NR was first synthesized clued them as to the recipe. 

 

Now sit back, relax and live in fantasy as large amounts of cheap NR will be automatically flowing your way as soon as we get the lab to stop putting unicorn's horn powder into the recipe. Taking a pro-active and methodical approach to finding non-chromadex NR could enrage the NR gods and make the delivery fail entirely. 

 

 

 

 

Brilliant....

 

 

..

 

 

No. Childish and immature.

 

Seriously, grow the hell up.

[Primal]

 

A bit off topic and more of a vender development post

 

 

For all of us already taking NR all that matters is how much to take, how to take it and where to buy it from. Unless you're planning to write a book, everything else changes nothing in your life.

 

 

 

however your find need confirmation and testing, which we all await. 

 

 

Edited by Primal, 10 January 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[to age or not to age]

 

 

I'm wondering when the results of chromadex's pharma kinetics studies will be published.
AFAIK we still don't know what happens to NR after ingestion or if it boosts NAD when taken orally and if so at what dose

 

I think we were all expecting the PK results sooner, I wonder what is delaying their release. One hypothesis among many others is that NR is in fact significantly hydrolyzed in the intestine into nicotinamide and riboside, and that chromadex is wondering what to do, and potentially that HPN heard about it and this would have helped them decide to produce a powder aimed at sublingual use. We need to keep in mind that the study dosage of 400-500mg/kg/day are high enough that they could very well overwhelm the intestinal hydrolysis enzymes, hence still get cellular delivery of oral NR. 

 

Another hypothesis is that they decided to test NAD levels, and realized that the 3 doses in the PK study were too low to produce the results they hoped for. Yet another is that sellers are preparing new products and/or chromadex is preparing a large marketing campaign and want the release of the PK study to be part of this launch. Time might tell. 

 

 

Let's not start rumors. I'm not the only one who has been asking for a sublingual product. Some of us are just trying to maximize our investment and increase the Biological activity. I see this HPN offer as a simple response to demand and we on Longecity have helped create that demand.

 

I also don't see the 3 doses studied not producing effects. I however thought it should have included 2 and 3 gram dosages but I don't have the medical background to make that argument. Many of us on this forum are realizing the benefits even if we don't have a medical staff to tell us we are. I believe since much of what we are taking is recycled to be used again, higher doses just kick start the benefits sooner rather than later. Unfortunately it may be years before we'll see a study to determine suitable maintenance levels once a regimen is started.

 

 

There are a number of "related" studies awaiting publication that would be of great interest. Here is one I've been waiting on for some time. Safety Study of Nicotinamide to Treat Alzheimer's Disease This one started in 2007 and some would say it's publication is long overdue.

 

We currently have 3 human studies on Nicotinamide Riboside. One completed and 2 in the wings. All of us are intensely interested because we want to see some validation of our monies spent and some of us are getting anxious and rightly so.

 

I think these studies normally take awhile to publish. Anyone on the research side want to comment to our forum about how long these things take?

 

Unless you're someone like Sinclair, who is trying to keep a continual buzz going everyone else just seems to take their time to get it right. My son was involved in a physics publication some years back and it took almost a year before the paper received peer review.

 

 

[to age or not to age]

Here is my two cents:

I know David Sinclair a bit and have shared several excerpts from my conversations with him.

SInclair is a very brilliant man, and a philosophical ally to this website, though when I told him

about this website and thread called  SInclair strikes again, he told me he couldn't access it.

Time will certainly tell with regard to NR; it may be that other methods of increasing NAD - David

used NMN - and there may be a way to increase it which won't have to be taken every day.

Guarente is also getting into the act - he has a relationship with a new company called elysiumhealth.com,

which is launching a product that combines some form of NR with pterostilbene.

David is a natural provocateur but I have high regard for him as a scientist.   

One final note, I would speculate but can't confirm that a number of scientists are taking NR now.

To me that's significant.

 

[Bryan_S]

New Facets in the Regulation of Gene Expression by ADP-Ribosylation and Poly(ADP-ribose) Polymerases

Publication Date (Web): January 9, 2015

 

Was published a few days ago and mentions nicotinamide riboside. It might be worth a read but I do not have access to the full paper. Maybe one of you can find the full PDF?

 

[Bryan_S]

Mitochondrial DNA mutations: The good, the bad, and the ugly

This is part of the whole picture. On the good side it looks like cells can share the wealth.

 

[relativityboy]

Hey all. I contacted Chromadex last year (Octoberish) to find out what was going on with the study. I was told they'd be releasing their results early this year. 

I *just* sent a message with a nice "are we there yet?" message.

 

Here's a link to the clinical trials entry for it. I would expect study results to appear here. When available.

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT02191462

[saraho]

Antidepressants may lead to a decrease in niacin and NAD in patients with poor dietary intake

• Margaretha Viljoen^{a, ,} ,
• Annie Swanepoel^b,
• Priyesh Bipath^c

Abstract

The term niacin is the generic name for the two compounds nicotinic acid and nicotinamide, the major dietary precursors for two important coenzymes, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and its phosphorylated form, NADP. Niacin is important for the maintenance of cellular integrity and energy production and is involved in more than 500 intracellular reactions. Deficiencies of niacin may contribute to neuropsychiatric and neurodegenerative disorders. Patients who develop nutritional deficiencies as a result of poor dietary intake, especially inadequate intake of proteins and vitamins, could potentially suffer from niacin deficiency and NAD depletion. However, de novo synthesis of niacin and NAD in the kynurenine pathway of tryptophan metabolism may compensate for impaired dietary intake. The rate of synthesis of NAD and niacin from tryptophan oxidation depends on the induction of the enzyme indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase (IDO) by pro-inflammatory cytokines such as interferon-gamma. Niacin synthesis is not limited by a decrease in tryptophan and excessive IDO activity may therefore lead to a decline in tryptophan levels. Antidepressants have an anti-inflammatory effect, including reduction of interferon-gamma and therefore inhibition of IDO, the rate-limiting enzyme of the kynurenine pathway. In theory, this could account for increased serotonin as more tryptophan becomes available for serotonin synthesis. However, the downside may be that less NAD and niacin are synthesised downstream, which could exacerbate common psychiatric problems. It is our hypothesis that patients with poor dietary intake, who are treated with antidepressants, are at risk of developing niacin/NAD deficiency with possible development of associated neuropsychiatric symptoms.

We therefore propose that niacin supplementation be considered in patients with inadequate diets who are treated with antidepressants. We believe that if this does not happen, a subclinical niacin deficiency may result, which would be difficult to detect as it would cause the same symptoms of the original illness (e.g. depression). Niacin deficiency should be considered and ruled out in all patients with treatment-resistant depression, who have a poor response to antidepressants. This is potentially a cost-effective and easy intervention, which could be examined in a randomized controlled trial.

 

 

http://www.sciencedi...306987714004617

[Asor]

Hey all. I contacted Chromadex last year (Octoberish) to find out what was going on with the study. I was told they'd be releasing their results early this year. 

I *just* sent a message with a nice "are we there yet?" message.

 

Here's a link to the clinical trials entry for it. I would expect study results to appear here. When available.

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT02191462

 

Just got an email from a researcher who's working on a NR study on patients with mitochondrial myopathies (i am one - so far they experimented NR on mice and got very good results, now they are working on a study on human patients of which i should be part in the future), and i got two news:

 

1) They are having a very hard time to get the study started on humans, it's going to take longer than expected and they have been asked to perform further experiments on pre-clinic models to better define dosages and frequency of NR administration.

 

I am not sure exactly what "preclinic models" means, i suppose further experimentation on mice.

 

2) About the Chromadex study on humans. He can tell me that Chromadex incurred in a delay on its study due to technical difficulties, specifically to find a way to measure the concentration of NR in the blood of the persons involved in the study.

Now they overcame this issue and they are repeating the study, and the results could be available about mid-February.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[relativityboy]

 

Hey all. I contacted Chromadex last year (Octoberish) to find out what was going on with the study. I was told they'd be releasing their results early this year. 

I *just* sent a message with a nice "are we there yet?" message.

 

Here's a link to the clinical trials entry for it. I would expect study results to appear here. When available.

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT02191462

 

Just got an email from a researcher who's working on a NR study.....

 

2) About the Chromadex study on humans. He can tell me that Chromadex incurred in a delay on its study due to technical difficulties, specifically to find a way to measure the concentration of NR in the blood of the persons involved in the study.

Now they overcame this issue and they are repeating the study, and the results could be available about mid-February.

 

 

 

It's good to hear there's a logical reason for the delay. I hope the Chromadex study includes intracellular (inside the cell) tests for NAD+ both in blood and tissues. Blood is nice, but we want to know what's up in all the body parts! 

 

I'll contact the Chromadex people and report back to see if their story is consistent with what you learned.

[dreamwolf]

I was gogling NR and digestion and came up with this as one of the results -

Digestion and absorption of NAD by the small intestine of the rat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6218262

Where herein is stated "Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed."

And since nicotinamide decreases sert expression I thought this may be an issue unless NR is absorbed intact in the stomach or can be taken sublingually.

I have not yet read the full text as I am posting this from my phone.

[dreamwolf]

It looks like the above study was mentioned in another thread here -

http://www.longecity...absorbed/page-2

Is it then sufficient to have a positive impact on SIRT if is is absorbed as NAM and ribose then after used to produce NR snatching NAM away before it has a negative impact on SIRT? Even if so why take NR except for the more expensive convenience of getting NAM and Ribose in one suppliment?

[maxwatt]

Well, I am back from an extended tour of New Zealand looking for another source of omega three fish oil, and find that none of the factories there produce any products for human consumption.  They produce fish meal for fertilizer with the waste from theit salmon farms.  But that is one reason I've been absent, and missed Primal and midas' comments. Which I will let speak for themselves.

 

Primal is correct that the other 10% of what was in the Niagen that the Chinese company tested is probably mostly niacinamide.  (Most forms of testing often destroys your sample leaving you to guess what the remaining ingredients might be.)  Though generally considered harmless, large doses of niacinamide may be of some concern (tachycardia,hyperglycemia and hyperuricemia have been reported, though probably rare) and it does not have the effect claimed for niacin of  improving blood lipids.  So you may want to avoid it in the doses that would go along with a high dose of Niagen.  As for the doctor I know who wishes to remain anonymous, who thought he was taking nicotinamde riboside for years, he sent me some of his pills, and testing proved them to be plain old niacinamide.  So at this point, Chromadex and through them Niagen are the only sources of Niacinamide Riboside, though that may be about to change.

The Chinese pharmaceutical company that was looking into making NR may be re-started the project.  (The were preoccupied with Modafinal and other things, and short of technical staff last fall.)  It depends on the market, which I am now attempting to determine.  Their sales staff, with whom I deal, have asked me:  "What is your quantity?  1 kg? 25? 50?  how much per year?"  They want repeat orders. 

So I would tentatively suggest a group buy, though I do not wish to administer it myself especially given the suspicion that has been voiced.  If their is a volunteer everyone trusts, that is possible.  All costs would be public, and a certain percentage should go to the volunteer to cover his time and expenses -- perhaps 10%, though it depends on the price of the goods, too.

We need a pole, asking:  purchase quantity, desired purchase price (be realistic) and how many times a year one expects to reorder.  And every batch will have to be tested, another cost.

[midas]

  As for the doctor I know who wishes to remain anonymous, who thought he was taking nicotinamde riboside for years, he sent me some of his pills, and testing proved them to be plain old niacinamide. 

Though generally considered harmless, large doses of niacinamide may be of some concern

 

 

This is precisely why I have no faith in what you say......I quote from your post #409 on this page http://www.longecity...s-again/page-14

"The doctor acquired several kilos of NR years ago from a Chinese pharmaceutical manufacturer, and had it tested."

Now you say above that it was not nicotinamide riboside at all, it was actually niacinamide.

You also said on the word of this "anonymous doctor" in post  #405 on the same page "I conclude from his example that such large doses of NR are unlikely to be dangerous for the general population."

That my friend was a dangerous thing to say as I pointed out at the time. You gave no evidence other than hearsay from your "doctor" friend that quantified this statement. You have never actually given any links or evidence to back up anything you have said on this subject, whether it be about these mythical Chinese suppliers you keep talking about or the "doctor" that has been using NR for four years which now turns out to not be NR at all. Taking above 3 grams per day of niacinamide is not a good idea so how this "doctor" has survived after 7 grams per day for four years is beyond me. You also say in your post above "Though generally considered harmless, large doses of niacinamide may be of some concern" yet in the Sinclair thread you say that you think 7 grams per day of NR which turns out to be niacinamide is OK!!

 

I strongly recommend anyone reading this post goes to this page and reads from post #405 to post # 418 ... http://www.longecity...s-again/page-14on the David Sinclair Strikes Again thread.....

 

I have no confidence whatsoever in anything you have ever posted on the NR threads, and I think you are giving misinformation, nothing is ever backed up in anyway, and also some of the things you have said are down right dangerous.

And the fact that you are a "moderator" on here, it worries me even more!

 

Edited by midas, 02 February 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[malbecman]

 I would be interested in a group buy and I trust you, Maxwatt.   

 

[..] Primal is correct that the other 10% of what was in the Niagen that the Chinese company tested is probably mostly niacinamide.  (Most forms of testing often destroys your sample leaving you to guess what the remaining ingredients might be.)  Though generally considered harmless, large doses of niacinamide may be of some concern  [...]

The Chinese pharmaceutical company that was looking into making NR may be re-started the project.  (The were preoccupied with Modafinal and other things, and short of technical staff last fall.)  It depends on the market, which I am now attempting to determine.  Their sales staff, with whom I deal, have asked me:  "What is your quantity?  1 kg? 25? 50?  how much per year?"  They want repeat orders. 

So I would tentatively suggest a group buy, though I do not wish to administer it myself  [...]

We need a pole, asking:  purchase quantity, desired purchase price (be realistic) and how many times a year one expects to reorder.  And every batch will have to be tested, another cost.

 

 

[Edit: trimmed redundant quoting -Michael]

Edited by Michael, 04 February 2015 - 07:50 PM.

[saraho]

So I would tentatively suggest a group buy, though I do not wish to administer it myself especially given the suspicion that has been voiced.  If their is a volunteer everyone trusts, that is possible.  All costs would be public, and a certain percentage should go to the volunteer to cover his time and expenses -- perhaps 10%, though it depends on the price of the goods, too. We need a pole, asking:  purchase quantity, desired purchase price (be realistic) and how many times a year one expects to reorder.  And every batch will have to be tested, another cost.

 

IMHO, you first test the product before purchasing anything.  How much would the test cost?  Wouldn't all reorders need to be tested also?  The added cost of testing and paying any volunteer for their efforts reduces any potential discount.
 

Edited by saraho, 02 February 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[midas]

Elysium health is up and running, this company is backed by Leonard Guarente, their product is called Basis and contains 250mg daily dosage of nicotinamide riboside along with 50mg of Pterostilbene.

Oddly enough I cant see any mention of Niagen on there which surprises me as from what we know that is the only form of nicotinamide roboside available. But maybe I just missed that.

The fact that Leonard Guarente has something to do with this company I am inclined to trust them in a way that I don't trust some of the others.

It all looks very professional, again, unlike some of the others. Cost for a month supply is on a par with most other nicotinamide riboside suppliers at $50 per month.....There is a video about the company in the first link...

http://www.elysiumhealth.com/

http://www.elysiumhealth.com/products

http://www.elysiumhe...om/product-plan

http://www.elysiumhe...upplement-facts

Edited by midas, 03 February 2015 - 02:04 PM.