15 replies to this topic

[benbest]

An excellent dramatic film about cryonics has been made in Russia by a film-maker named Anna Arlanova. This film is vastly superior to any I have ever seen as a fictionalized account that has cryonics as its central theme.

 

http://indiefilmdepot.com/beta/196/

 

Here is a review that I wrote of the film, addressed to Anna Arlanova.

 

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I have never seen such a dramatic portrayal of cryonics, Anna. I fear that only a cryonicist could really empathize with the emotional impact, so I can only hope that it will be appealing to a broader audience (or perhaps make them more sympathetic to cryonics). The film does contain much material which can educate people about cryonics. The film well depicts the existential plight of cryonics emergencies -- holidays, remote from cryonics facility, money urgency, hostile relatives, etc. There is a good variety of other drama too. I commend the writer for imagination and emotion. As a life-extensionist I was a bit put-off by the cigarette smoking, but I know it is embedded in Russian culture, and perhaps even adds to the drama as a symbol of anxiety-relief. As a cryonicist, I would have liked to see the ice placed on the grandmother's head as soon as it could have been obtained. Perhaps even open all the windows to allow the bitterly cold Russian winter to help. The media circus at the end also added to the drama. Waving goodbye to a cryopreserved grandmother is not really a goodbye if she is not ultimately dead. Aging makes us all ugly, but the video of the grandmother showed her to have a very intelligent and empathetic face.

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Building on this film, I think many excellent fictional books and films could be made having a cryonics theme that mines the real-life drama found in the many case reports that I wrote for the Cryonics Institute when I was President of that organization:

 

http://web.archive.o...refs.html#cases

[Danail Bulgaria]

Hm... when I go to:

 

http://indiefilmdepot.com/beta/196/

 

it says "video not found"

 

Can you provide another link, or the name of the movie?

Edited by seivtcho, 07 December 2014 - 06:41 AM.

[ceridwen]

-195

[Danail Bulgaria]

Thanks ceridwen!

 

Now I get:

 

"

html5: Unsupported video format. Try installing Adobe Flash.

http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

 

"

 

lol. I have installed Adobe Flash player already It seems, that the destiny prevents me watching this

 

[Mind]

The video worked for me.

 

I would have to agree with Ben that it is probably the most realistic attempt at dramatizing cryonics in film to date.

 

I doubt it will have too much appeal for a wider audience, but I suspect many cryonicists will enjoy it. The film was shot and acted fairly well. It made me feel cold - not sure if it was supposed to be that way or perhaps it is just because I am sitting in the middle of a cold Wisconsin winter right now (lol). I thought the protagonist was a little too brooding and depressing/depressed, but maybe it was appropriate for the set-up (attempting cryonics without the proper help/infrastructure).

 

The main drawback is that the science and history of cryonics seemed a little forced, but sub-titles probably affected my perception of this.

[benbest]

Hm... when I go to:

 

http://indiefilmdepot.com/beta/196/

 

it says "video not found"

 

Can you provide another link, or the name of the movie?

 

 The film is called -196 (minus 196, the Celsius temperature of liquid nitrogen where cryonics patients are stored). 

 

 The film is not on YouTube and when I have attempted a Google search for "196 film", I don't get a useful result.

 

 The film is at Indie Film Depot, which you can find with a Google search. 

 

http://indiefilmdepot.com/beta/

 

You can find the film at the Indie Film Depot website by entering "196" in the "search films" box. 

 

But I think the problem is with your computer and software, so I doubt that any of this advice will help you. 

[ceridwen]

Sorry

[Danail Bulgaria]

I finally managed to watch this movie. It made me think a lot of things. One of which, is that there are many people all over the world, who will prefer their corpses and the corpses of their relatives, to be treated "traditionally" instead being cryopreserved. I suppose, that many people will be in the same situation as this russian man. If you want to cryopreserve your grand-mother or grand-father, you definitely should check out what your parents think about that as soon as possible. Second, what guarantee you have, that your grand-children will cryopreserve you? Next, the russians today are very happy for having cryorus in their country. Third I started to wonder did the man actually managed to preserve the brain? His grand-mother died from brain attack, right? The irreversible damage of the neurons starts several minutes after the blood supply to the brain has stopped, or after the death. His grand mother stayed more than these 3 minutes in the hospital morgue first, then was placed on the balcony (at external temperature). When the guys started to seek for dry ice, they were already late, after that they placed her in the bath with several bags of home made usual ice, which is nothing. Considering the russian winter, and the snow, that was outside on the balcony, it would be better just to leave her outside. Nevertheless, she stayed one day at least without dry ice. Her brain, after removed (at last), was needed to be kept and transported in dry ice, not in liquid oxygen. They are supposed, to have started the liquid nitrogen at least several hours later. Will there be at least one neuron preserved? And if the science of the future manages to pull it off in this case, it should be able to pull it off in all the other cryopreserved so far cases.

[benbest]

I have made a few additional technical comments about the film, which I will repeat here:

 

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 I have a few more thoughts about the film that are somewhat technical, but I might as well get them off my chest.  The grandmother was packed in dry ice, but then thawed to remove her brain -- and so her body could be put on display. The result of this process would be the "frozen strawberry" effect, namely mush. Nanotechnology may be able to repair a frozen brain, but unfrozen mush would be like trying to repair soup. A body given this treatment would probably not be good for display, and would probably stink. I hope that if the film was based on a true story, that the true story did not involve this treatment. Similarly, exposing the grandmother to the bitter Russian winter by opening windows (my suggestion) could freeze her. That would be fine if she was to be subsequently placed in dry ice and stay in dry ice. But if she was to be re-warmed after a sustained period at subzero temperature, she would become mush. The blood vessels would be broken and perfusion would be impossible. These technical details would not detract from the film because few viewers would perceive them. I do think, however, that only cryonicists would appreciate the violent reaction of the grandson over the suggestion that his grandmother would not be perfused. I think the great majority of viewers will be puzzled by that scene. Nonetheless, this would be just a blip in the midst of a great drama that would quickly be overlooked. I don't mean for any of these technical remarks to invalidate the superb cryonics drama that Anna has created.

 

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I  will respond to the comments by "seivtcho" (the registered user in Bulgaria, whose comments immediately precede this comment). Neurons can last much longer than 3 minutes. What is true is that ten minutes of warm ischemia invariably means ultimate neurological damage, but this process can take hours. Cooling can halt this process, and future medicine will hopefully intervene. I suggest reading my essay on the subject if quantifying ischemic damage:

 

http://www.benbest.c.../IR_Damage.html

 

Concerning legal authority, I can't believe that Russia is any different from the USA in giving children more legal authority than grandchildren over disposal of a body. The moral argument was that the grandson reports that his grandmother said that she wanted to live. But wanting to live might not mean wanting to be cryonically preserved. 

[Danail Bulgaria]

Lol ok Then what is the guarantee, that your children (not your grand-children), who have the legal right to deal with your corpse, will cryopreserve you? Once death you don't have a control on what's happening. Your children may simply cremate you. On the other side, the behavior of our children towards us depends entirely on us. There is surely what to be discussed about the movie.

 

Where did you post your additional technical comments? On the movie page, I can't find place for comments anywhere. It can be just another browser flaw, that I have Will you post more?

 

In one of my medical emergencies books (used for human medicine) is written, that " ... cardiovascular resuscitation has to start immediately, since 3 to 5 minutes after the brain circulation is absent, irreversible damage of the brain occur .... ". This is why I imagined the 3 minutes as the lowest possible timeline to save the brain I can be wrong, nevertheless. I know, that there exist methods for cooling down the brain, which allow brain surgery operations lasting hours without a permanent brain damage. The link, that you provided is also informative.

 

I didn't thought about the "frozen strawberry" effect. This also lowers the chances for a success with certain. I wonder if the science one day will be able to fix the brain even all of the flaws, that happened during the cryopreservation in the movie? If it manages, then it will manage to bring back to life all the cryopreserved, won't it?

[benbest]

Lol ok Then what is the guarantee, that your children (not your grand-children), who have the legal right to deal with your corpse, will cryopreserve you? Once death you don't have a control on what's happening. Your children may simply cremate you. On the other side, the behavior of our children towards us depends entirely on us. There is surely what to be discussed about the movie.

 

Where did you post your additional technical comments? On the movie page, I can't find place for comments anywhere. It can be just another browser flaw, that I have Will you post more?

 

In one of my medical emergencies books (used for human medicine) is written, that " ... cardiovascular resuscitation has to start immediately, since 3 to 5 minutes after the brain circulation is absent, irreversible damage of the brain occur .... ". This is why I imagined the 3 minutes as the lowest possible timeline to save the brain I can be wrong, nevertheless. I know, that there exist methods for cooling down the brain, which allow brain surgery operations lasting hours without a permanent brain damage. The link, that you provided is also informative.

 

I didn't thought about the "frozen strawberry" effect. This also lowers the chances for a success with certain. I wonder if the science one day will be able to fix the brain even all of the flaws, that happened during the cryopreservation in the movie? If it manages, then it will manage to bring back to life all the cryopreserved, won't it?

 

     Although children have greater legal authority than grandchildren, children do not have greater legal authority than the individual of concern in most jurisdictions (all the jurisdictions I know about). So to avoid children having wishes other than yourself, you make a contract with a cryonics organization that specifies what you want done with your body (cryonics treatment). That will work as long as you can ensure that the cryonics organization knows that you are dying or have died. In some cases, the cryonics organization had no knowledge of the death and the person was buried by the children. 

 

I have been originally been posting my remarks in the Young Cryonicists Facebook page.

 

https://www.facebook...s/250977974238/

 

which is how I learned of the film in the first place. Although I am not myself a young cryonicist, I created the group and remain a moderator. 

 

  The sooner a Standby team can begin cool-down of a cryonics patient after declaration of legal death (which should happen as soon as possible after the heart stops), the better. But that does not mean that the passage of hours results in a hopeless situation. Perfusion is not very helpful after an hour of warm ischemia, but at the Cryonics Institute longer periods than an hour still permitted perfusion, but ultimately perfusion becomes impossible because of the "no reflow" effect. 

 

  The "frozen strawberry" effect would not apply to cryonics patients because cryonics patients would be repaired at cryogenic temperatures. For details, see:

 

http://www.evidenceb...onics-patients/

[Antonio2014]

I found some photos of the film location in KrioRus web site:

 

http://kriorus.ru/en/node/2013

 

http://kriorus.ru/en...riohranilishche

 

Was it filmed in Kriorus buildings? Is the plot inspired in KrioRus founders?

[YOLF]

Is the video still available anywhere?

[Antonio2014]

Apparently, the entire website is down. Probably it will be fixed after the holidays.

Edited by Antonio2014, 28 December 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[benbest]

Apparently, the entire website is down. Probably it will be fixed after the holidays.

 

  The link to the film is currently active: http://indiefilmdepot.com/beta/196/

[YOLF]

Good flick, you can feel Mitya's struggle.