24 replies to this topic

[StevesPetRat]

I AM NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR AND NO HUMAN SHOULD EVER EVEN CONSIDER ACTING ON ANYTHING I SUGGEST.

With that said, it (should be) well known that piracetam requires aldosterone to confer maximum benefits. There is at least one good thread on the topic.

What I have never seen suggested is the cheapest way to raise aldosterone: potassium. KCl can be bought in most supermarkets in the US as a salt substitute. I imagine, though would not recommend, trying 1/2 tsp 3x daily and building up to 1.5 tsp 3x daily to increase the benefits of piracetam. I've got a few other irons in the fire, so probably won't get to a trial until sometime January / February, but if any piracetam veterans want to give it a shot, please do and share. PS may worsen "adrenal fatigue"

[jroseland]

Interesting... First of all has anyone self quantified this? Or have anecdotal experiences to speak too? 

 

Someone with a really optimized diet, is already going to be consuming a lot of high potassium content foods.

 

Racetams are something I consume 7 days a week... So I totally volunteer to test this... I just need to find a good way to quantify my baseline of Piracetam enhancement.

 

Is it a reasonable assumption to say that potassium would also potentate the effects of Piracetam derivatives?

[Heisenburger]

On dayhikes in the local hills I carry two liters of homemade oral rehydration solution composed of the following, which is based on the WHO’s current ORT formula:

 

5.2 grams sodium chloride

27.0 grams glucose

3.0 grams potassium chloride

5.8 grams citric acid

1959.0 grams water

 

You could try mixing your piracetam in that and drinking it either throughout the day or in three evenly-spaced large portions.

[StevesPetRat]

Is it a reasonable assumption to say that potassium would also potentate the effects of Piracetam derivatives?

Absolutely.
 

5.2 grams sodium chloride
27.0 grams glucose
3.0 grams potassium chloride
5.8 grams citric acid
1959.0 grams water
 
You could try mixing your piracetam in that and drinking it either throughout the day or in three evenly-spaced large portions.

You may want to dump the sodium, as it somewhat lowers aldosterone (you can find it in the wiki page on aldosterone, but here is a link anyway). If you already have a high-sodium diet, it won't make much difference.

Another thing I just remembered from trying to fix my POTS is that raising the head of the bed may increase aldosterone, too. Don't know if it would work on people with healthy autonomic function, though.

Edit: supplying the universal steroid precursor pregnenolone may also help if you have adrenal issues.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 22 December 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Gorthaur]

 

Is it a reasonable assumption to say that potassium would also potentate the effects of Piracetam derivatives?

Absolutely.
 

5.2 grams sodium chloride
27.0 grams glucose
3.0 grams potassium chloride
5.8 grams citric acid
1959.0 grams water
 
You could try mixing your piracetam in that and drinking it either throughout the day or in three evenly-spaced large portions.

You may want to dump the sodium, as it somewhat lowers aldosterone (you can find it in the wiki page on aldosterone, but here is a link anyway). If you already have a high-sodium diet, it won't make much difference.

Another thing I just remembered from trying to fix my POTS is that raising the head of the bed may increase aldosterone, too. Don't know if it would work on people with healthy autonomic function, though.

Edit: supplying the universal steroid precursor pregnenolone may also help if you have adrenal issues.

 

 

I had a very bad experience with pregnenolone, which I had also hoped would help with piracetam tolerance. Pregnenolone made me feel incredibly angry and stressed out. It did not help with piracetam. I think pregnenolone effects too many different hormones to be useful for this purpose. 

 

Also, you can buy pure aldosterone from IAS: link.

[StevesPetRat]

I had a very bad experience with pregnenolone, which I had also hoped would help with piracetam tolerance. Pregnenolone made me feel incredibly angry and stressed out. It did not help with piracetam. I think pregnenolone effects too many different hormones to be useful for this purpose. 
 
Also, you can buy pure aldosterone from IAS: link.

Thanks for the feedback, you're not the only one... what dose did you use? I've never taken more than 20 mg a day and not noticed much of anything one way or another from that.

[Fenix_]

I suspect that messing with nearly any hormone is going to have a greater psychological effect than piracetam ever will.

Edited by Fenix_, 22 December 2014 - 09:25 PM.

[Gorthaur]

 

I had a very bad experience with pregnenolone, which I had also hoped would help with piracetam tolerance. Pregnenolone made me feel incredibly angry and stressed out. It did not help with piracetam. I think pregnenolone effects too many different hormones to be useful for this purpose. 
 
Also, you can buy pure aldosterone from IAS: link.

Thanks for the feedback, you're not the only one... what dose did you use? I've never taken more than 20 mg a day and not noticed much of anything one way or another from that.

 

 

I took 100 mg, since that's what the capsules I bought were dosed at (Life Extension brand). 

[middpanther88]

Anyone use potassium afterAll?

[StevesPetRat]

I am running noopept right now, and I've heard that there are diminished returns using that in combination with piracetam. So I haven't run a trial yet.

But I also noticed that licorice extract should be avoided.

[middpanther88]

What do you mean finishing gains from "that" combination?

[middpanther88]

Also, does the form of potassium matter?  Which would work best?

[StevesPetRat]

I meant that piracetam and noopept would sort of cancel each other out, but I have found conflicting info on that point, so to hell with it, I'll probably run them both.

Don't think that the type of potassium matters. I have some KCl I bought from the grocery store ("No Salt").

[boroda]

I added 5 grams of KCl to 4.8 gr/day of piracetam - and I definitely feel an improvement. Thanks for the hint!

 

By the way be careful with KCl - mix it with good amount of water, otherwise you'll burn your stomach. 

Edited by boroda, 27 February 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[8bitmore]

I added 5 grams of KCl to 4.8 gr/day of piracetam - and I definitely feel an improvement. Thanks for the hint!

 

By the way be careful with KCl - mix it with good amount of water, otherwise you'll burn your stomach. 

 

Yes, great that it helps with the effects of Piracetam for you but honestly that is too much potassium, you are doubling whatever amount you would normally get from your diet in one go. The effects of overdosing potassium is hyperkalemia which can lead to kidney failure. Be careful

[boroda]

 

I added 5 grams of KCl to 4.8 gr/day of piracetam - and I definitely feel an improvement. Thanks for the hint!

 

By the way be careful with KCl - mix it with good amount of water, otherwise you'll burn your stomach. 

 

Yes, great that it helps with the effects of Piracetam for you but honestly that is too much potassium, you are doubling whatever amount you would normally get from your diet in one go. The effects of overdosing potassium is hyperkalemia which can lead to kidney failure. Be careful

 

 

RDA for potassium is 4.7gr / day.

5 grams KCl = 2.5gr potassium (weight of K in KCl is about 50%). 

So that's just half of recommended daily amount.

[8bitmore]

 

 

I added 5 grams of KCl to 4.8 gr/day of piracetam - and I definitely feel an improvement. Thanks for the hint!

 

By the way be careful with KCl - mix it with good amount of water, otherwise you'll burn your stomach. 

 

Yes, great that it helps with the effects of Piracetam for you but honestly that is too much potassium, you are doubling whatever amount you would normally get from your diet in one go. The effects of overdosing potassium is hyperkalemia which can lead to kidney failure. Be careful

 

 

RDA for potassium is 4.7gr / day.

5 grams KCl = 2.5gr potassium (weight of K in KCl is about 50%). 

So that's just half of recommended daily amount.

 

 

Ah, didn't think about molecular percentage, may well be just fine to up the daily intake to 150% (if we presuppose that diet provides the RDA of 4.7 gram which may well be optimistic) but I would personally stay bit lower (i.e. would probably max go to around 2-3 gram of KCI or 1-1.5 gram pure potassium). Do you mind expanding a bit on improvement you have experienced?
 

[boroda]

Ah, didn't think about molecular percentage, may well be just fine to up the daily intake to 150% (if we presuppose that diet provides the RDA of 4.7 gram which may well be optimistic) but I would personally stay bit lower (i.e. would probably max go to around 2-3 gram of KCI or 1-1.5 gram pure potassium). Do you mind expanding a bit on improvement you have experienced?

 

 

 

I started experimenting with piracetam ~14 days ago and first week it made me veeeery sleepy and totally emotionless. Then I added KCl and started to feel awesome! Lots of energy and positive emotions, great programming performance, increased verbal fluency. I don't know if those effects are only from adding KCl or not. May be first week of piracetam is just the time when it "settles" in your body and then it starts to work as it should. Anyway I will continue to take KCl.

[boroda]

Actually I'm taking not just KCl but a little bit modified version of the "Improved Miracle Adrenal Mix (IMAM)": http://www.curezone....m.asp?i=2118222

It's Water + Salt (NaCl) + KCl + VitC

 

I'm adding not that much salt (only 1/2 tsp) and don't add Citric Acid, CO2

Edited by boroda, 01 March 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[8bitmore]

Actually I'm taking not just KCl but a little bit modified version of the "Improved Miracle Adrenal Mix (IMAM)": http://www.curezone....m.asp?i=2118222

It's Water + Salt (NaCl) + KCl + VitC

 

I'm adding not that much salt (only 1/2 tsp) and don't add Citric Acid, CO2

 

Interesting that you are taking normal salt in this mix, this should, according to literature, lower the aldosterone boosting effect of the KCI. Be interesting to hear how the mix works out for you without adding in any additional salt at all, may well be better! Still waiting to receive my KCI here so can't add personal experience yet.

[boroda]

 

Actually I'm taking not just KCl but a little bit modified version of the "Improved Miracle Adrenal Mix (IMAM)": http://www.curezone....m.asp?i=2118222

It's Water + Salt (NaCl) + KCl + VitC

 

I'm adding not that much salt (only 1/2 tsp) and don't add Citric Acid, CO2

 

Interesting that you are taking normal salt in this mix, this should, according to literature, lower the aldosterone boosting effect of the KCI. Be interesting to hear how the mix works out for you without adding in any additional salt at all, may well be better! Still waiting to receive my KCI here so can't add personal experience yet.

 

 

Yes I also still can't understand all that conflicting information - some sources say salt is good for adrenals (it helps people with adrenal fatigue); others say it lowers aldosterone. Some sources say KCl is bad for people with adrenal fatigue (because it lowers blood pressure probably?) others say it is a MUST for adrenal fatigue. Anyway mixing them seems to be working good for me. Yesterday I tried taking 5 grams of pure KCl dissolved in a glass of water; 15 minutes later I felt very relaxed and even sleepy. I'm not sure if it was placebo or not but it looks like my BP dropped down. I then have taken 1tsp of salt and my energy was back. I want to try to repeat that experiment. Also I want to make a long separate post about types of salt because there seems to be tons of myths and disinformation (sea salt vs plain white salt etc.)

[boroda]

Bump! Anyone else taking KCl to potentiate -racetams? I'm taking 1 level teaspoon in full glass of water every day and it seems to be helping. 

Edited by boroda, 20 March 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[jacobjerondin]

Giving this a good ol bump to see if anyone has any new information to share about this? Piracetam has never really done anything for me except given me brain fog and weird feelings, and now my all-time favorite noot, aniracetam stopped working for me last year.

 

I think it's quite probable that I'm deficient in aldosterone based on the pupil dilation test (my pupils were flickering wildly) so I am ordering NoSalt to see if it will get my piracetam and/or aniracetam working.

[StevesPetRat]

Hiya.

 

I looked more into aldosterone some time after starting this thread, and I now recommend against supplementing with potassium unless you verify that you have low aldosterone levels, preferably with a blood or urine test rather than the more subjective pupil test.

 

I am glad a few people found this idea useful, though. Perhaps it can help those with aldosterone insufficiency make use of piracetam. I would still caution against long term use.

 

Read a few pages of the first link; it makes aldosterone seem the stuff of nightmares.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3099453/

https://www.scienced...018506X08000445

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20861841

 

[jacobjerondin]

Scary stuff indeed, I think I'm still going to try a bit of potassium to see if I can get my racetams working but I will definitely keep that in mind and not use it too regularly! Everything in moderation, being deficient has its drawbacks too tho I will look into a better test than the pupil one. Good looking out man!