32 replies to this topic

[eon]

everyone be careful when supplementing with zinc. I took a 50mg zinc picollinate and ate nuts and seeds (brazil, pumpkin seeds, bread and peanut butter and an egg) and felt like crap. It felt like my head had pressure in it. I should have known better but I guess I underestimated zinc since I only take it 2x a week. Another story when I underestimated vitamin C after eating green apples, which already has vitamin C. In other words don't take too much or mix things up (supplemental and food source). Like taking calcium supplement with milk!

 

Wouldn't the antinutrient, inositol (IP6?), have driven out the zinc? Perhaps activated charcoal? I wasted my day trying to figure out what was wrong. For future reference what could I have done to drive out the zinc? IP6 and or activated charcoal?

 

"In the brain, zinc is stored in specific synaptic vesicles by glutamatergic neurons[168] and can "modulate brain excitability".[5] It plays a key role in synaptic plasticity and so in learning.[169] However it has been called "the brain's dark horse"[168] because it also can be a neurotoxin, suggesting zinc homeostasis plays a critical role in normal functioning of the brain and central nervous system."

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/Zinc#Toxicity

[JellyRev]

yea I've tried 100mg of zinc a long time ago, makes the stomach pissed off and make concentration impossible even at 50mg. 

 

I don't know why people who are not deficient take it. If one is going to take it stay under 10mgs. 

[YOLF]

Interesting, I take zinc for the fall months (~25mg/day from a snapped in half tablet), but maybe I should take less. 

 

Is much zinc to be found in shilajit? I have some I eventually plan to try.

[Daniel Cooper]

Inositol is an anti-nutrient?

 

 

[Area-1255]

yea I've tried 100mg of zinc a long time ago, makes the stomach pissed off and make concentration impossible even at 50mg. 

 

I don't know why people who are not deficient take it. If one is going to take it stay under 10mgs. 

The problem with HIGH DOSES of Zinc (Zn) is that it eventually causes copper deficiency when used at 40 mg + consistently and many people don't know to supplement with small amounts of copper or for some reason, I get the feeling they are afraid to , some of the medical science depicting copper as an anti-man mineral might be partially to blame - except that it's not ...because you see, fear, it inhibits and distorts, but I'M here to tell you all that even if you are a man who treasures his masculinity, or even so, supra-masculinity , you can safely supplement with small amounts of copper, and there will be no harm...in fact, copper at light doses stimulates gonadotropins and testosterone...so yes, over doses of Zinc are not only neuro-toxic but can lower your testosterone, and especially DHT.

 

This happens both as a result of direct mineral / channel  induced changes in the HPTA (hypothalamic - pituitary - testicular axis) but also because it; Zinc - opposes NMDA-glutamate receptors as high doses, mostly acting as an antagonist - which this mechanism eventually can decrease testosterone and nitric oxide, and even cause erectile dysfunction and low libido at high doses of Zinc , over time......

 

It's better to stick with 10-25 mg of Zinc, and eat a chocalate bar here and there or some peanuts to make sure you get enough copper to balance it out.

 

The dangers of lowering DHT too much are well-documented, especially in my writing, where clearly you can see that over-inhibition of DHT can lead to neurological failure, memory problems and estrogen dominance.

 

 

 

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1983 Apr 15;112(1):306-12.

Copper and thiol regulation of gonadotropin releasing hormone binding and luteinizing hormone release.

Hazum E.

Abstract

The effects of copper, sulfhydryl and disulfide reagents on gonadotropin, releasing hormone (GnRH) binding to pituitary membrane preparations and on luteinizing hormone (LH) release from pituitaries of immature female rats were studied. Copper ions reduced the specific binding of 125I-labeled [D-Ser(t-Bu)6, des-Gly10-ethylamide]GnRH (Buserelin) to pituitary membranes in a dose responsive manner. Fifty percent inhibition of the specific binding was obtained at 3 x 10(-5)M Cu+2. The decreased binding stems from a 8-fold decrease in the apparent affinity of Buserelin, in the presence of copper ions. Cupric sulfate was examined for its ability to affect basal and GnRH stimulated LH release. Copper stimulated basal LH release 18-fold and 8-fold at 10(-4)M and 10(-5)M, respectively. The LH release in response to Cu+2 was calcium dependent. The effect of Cu+2 on GnRH stimulated LH release was a combined effect of Cu+2 on GnRH binding. GnRH on LH release and Cu+2 on LH release. N-ethylmaleimide, hydrogen peroxide and dithiothreitol did not alter significantly the specific binding of 125I-labeled Buserelin. N-ethylmaleimide and hydrogen peroxide did not affect GnRH stimulated LH release, whereas dithiothreitol (1 mM) significantly inhibited GnRH stimulated LH release. The present findings may explain the induction of ovulation by copper and the reduction in serum LH after injection of reducing agents.

PMID:   6404279   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]  

 

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Kathmandu Univ Med J (KUMJ). 2005 Oct-Dec;3(4):392-400.

Dose-dependent effect of copper chloride on male reproductive function in immature rats.

Chattopadhyay A1, Sarkar M, Biswas NM.

Author information

 

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Copper is essential as a trace element for metabolic processes. Exposure to copper in industries develops toxicity among the workers. Previous findings on adverse effects of copper on male reproductive function in adult albino rats led to investigate the effects of this metal on reproductive function of maturing male rats in the present experiment.

METHODOLOGY:

To study these effects, immature (30 to 35 days old) Wistar strain albino rats weighing about 50-60 g were treated intraperitoneally with copper chloride at doses of 1000, 2000 and 3000 microg/kg body weight/day for 26 days.

RESULT:

Significant fall in accessory sex organ weight and inhibition of testicular 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity along with degeneration of testicular growing spermatogenic cells and reduction in serum testosterone, FSH and LH level were observed at the doses of 2000 and 3000microg/kg/day. On the other hand, at the dose of 1000 microg/kg/day significant increase in testicular steroidogenic enzyme activity and stimulation of testicular spermatogenesis along with rise in serum testosterone and LH level were observed, though no significant change was observed in serum FSH level. This suggests that copper has got a dose-dependent effect on testicular steroidogenesis and spermatogenesis and serum testosterone and LH level in maturing male rats.

PMID:   16449843   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

J Nutr. 1996 Apr;126(4):842-8.

Dietary zinc deficiency alters 5 alpha-reduction and aromatization of testosterone and androgen and estrogen receptors in rat liver.

Om AS1, Chung KW.

Author information

 

Abstract

We studied the effects of zinc deficiency on hepatic androgen metabolism and aromatization, androgen and estrogen receptor binding, and circulating levels of reproductive hormones in freely fed, pair-fed and zinc deficient rats. Hepatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone was significantly less, but formation of estradiol from testosterone was significantly greater in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet compared with freely fed and pair-fed control rats. There were significantly lower serum concentrations of luteinizing hormone, estradiol and testosterone in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet. No difference in the concentration of serum follicle-stimulating hormone was observed between the zinc-deficient group and either control group. Scatchard analyses of the receptor binding data showed a significantly higher level of estrogen receptor in zinc-deficient rats (36.6 +/- 3.4 fmol/mg protein) than in pair-fed controls (23.3 +/- 2.2 fmol/mg protein) and a significantly lower level of androgen binding sites in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet (6.7 +/- 0.7 fmol/mg protein) than in pair-fed control rats (11.3 +/- 1.2 fmol/mg protein). There were no differences in hepatic androgen and estrogen receptor levels between freely fed and pair-fed controls. These findings indicate that zinc deficiency reduces circulating luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations, alters hepatic steroid metabolism, and modifies sex steroid hormone receptor levels, thereby contributing to the pathogenesis of male reproductive dysfunction.

PMID:   8613886   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]    Free full text

 

 

 

http://meridianvalle...of-5a-reductase

 

http://www.acne.org/...r-decrease-dht/

 

 

Edited by Area-1255, 25 December 2014 - 03:51 PM.

[Area-1255]

 

http://meridianvalle...of-5a-reductase

 

http://www.acne.org/...r-decrease-dht/

 

[Galaxyshock]

Zinc is also NMDA-antagonist, dopamine re-uptake inhibitor/enhancer depending on circumstances, and GABA-A antagonist. Don't take on empty stomach.

[eon]

I was fine taking it 1-2 times a week, ONLY when I didn't eat anything else with zinc in it. I happened to take it with other high zinc foods as I mentioned at the start of the thread, but yes 50 mg can be high. I think it serves its purpose if you're feeling sick and haven't had foods high in zinc. Even Walmart sells a 50 mg zinc, but not picollinate.

 

yea I've tried 100mg of zinc a long time ago, makes the stomach pissed off and make concentration impossible even at 50mg. 

 

I don't know why people who are not deficient take it. If one is going to take it stay under 10mgs. 

 

Inositol Hexakiphospahte (IP6). 

 

Inositol is an anti-nutrient?

 

I did not know that about zinc. It felt as if I was depleted of dopamine after I took it. Perhaps it was too high? I would think since it is water soluble, taking it on an empty stomach would be more beneficial. I took it with vitamin C, magnesium, vitamin D, vitamin K complex, krill oil, boron, potassium citrate and inulin. I took vitamin C, potassium citrate and magnesium glycinate first on an empty stomach, a few minutes later I ate then took the rest of the vitamins and minerals. Not sure if what combo did it go wrong. I've done this before in a day but with more time apart not within 30 minutes.

 

I'm starting to think a lot of these people who stack a whole bunch of nootropics to bad effects shouldn't be stacking but pick 1 that works for them. It's only a matter of time til people start getting screwed and the FDA will step in much like what they're doing to sellers of caffeine powders. The FDA is going after them due to deaths and hospitalizations. Just a side note.

 

Zinc is also NMDA-antagonist, dopamine re-uptake inhibitor/enhancer depending on circumstances, and GABA-A antagonist. Don't take on empty stomach.

 

Edited by eon, 26 December 2014 - 01:24 AM.

[JellyRev]

I wouldn't worry about nmda antagonism zn at the high end, it doesnot have the same effect as memantine which is a selective nmda antagonist. 

 

honestly if your pushing 100mg+ there is a good chance that you will throw up. It's not considered dangerous unlike potassium because taking too much will make someone vomit. 

and as said before its hard to balance copper with it. 

 

of the minerals magnesium is the only one where you can dose up. but the effects are weak. some claim they are decent but I disagree. 

 

the body keeps these minerals in decent balance. upping them all at the same time could help out though. 

 

 

people should be trying to modulate receptors or change levels of gaba, dopamine, serotonin, norephrin, adrenalin, or histamine to see real effects. exceptions are rare disorders and methylation issues. 

also orexin modulation. 

 

boosting all essential vits and minerals can help a bit but shits weak. 

 

[FW900]

There are a couple older threads on this with some studies/ speculation in them that may be worth looking at if you're looking for even more information.

 

 

http://www.longecity...inc-neurotoxic/

[eon]

Even magnesium is an NMDA antagonist, but I don't know why it's suggested to pair with zinc? But aren't NMDA antagonist great for lowering glutamate as too much isn't good for you?

 

I can't find anything on NMDA "agonists" as if there's such a thing? Does it occur naturally and not by drugs?

 

I wouldn't worry about nmda antagonism zn at the high end, it doesnot have the same effect as memantine which is a selective nmda antagonist. 

 

honestly if your pushing 100mg+ there is a good chance that you will throw up. It's not considered dangerous unlike potassium because taking too much will make someone vomit. 

and as said before its hard to balance copper with it. 

 

of the minerals magnesium is the only one where you can dose up. but the effects are weak. some claim they are decent but I disagree. 

 

the body keeps these minerals in decent balance. upping them all at the same time could help out though. 

 

 

people should be trying to modulate receptors or change levels of gaba, dopamine, serotonin, norephrin, adrenalin, or histamine to see real effects. exceptions are rare disorders and methylation issues. 

also orexin modulation. 

 

boosting all essential vits and minerals can help a bit but shits weak. 

 

[JellyRev]

There are nmda antagonist and agonist discussed on these boards from time to time. 

 

memantine is the main one talked about for nmda antagonism, because of its safety compared to other antagonist(ketamine, etc).  

For agonism there is D-serine and sarcosine combine them with D aspartic acid for greater agonism.  

 

 

But back to the OP, Sometimes you'll experiment with some new stack and it fails. Sometimes concentration gets demolished, sometimes one gets depressed for the day. It happens when one megadoses certain vits and minerals. cycles get sped up and slown down. 

 

[eon]

Sarcosine is interesting but seems related to dimethylglycine and trimethylglycine as it's also known as N-methylglycine. The protein powder I used to take from Body Fortress (sold at Walmart) has Aspartic Acid and Serine. There's no sarcosine and it's not exactly D-aspartic acid but without "D". Take a look at the ingredient:

 

http://images.vitami.../L055366-AE.pdf

 

I stopped taking it as I don't remember if I felt right when on it. I think I felt as if I didn't even recover from all that workout. These days a tablespoon of Glucose was more of a postworkout recovery for me, can't say why.

Edited by eon, 26 December 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[JellyRev]

for workout a pbj an hour before if I haven't ate recently, protein shake w/milk postworkout or choco milk is usually what I do.

 

Supposedly one should watch out when taking sarcosine/d-serine with D-aspartic acid due to excitoxicity. never tried it with DAA. 

[tritium]

<p>I've never experienced much from zinc...</p>

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[Jbac]

I've never experienced much from zinc...

 

Here let me fix that for you

Edited by rwac, 06 January 2015 - 07:24 PM.
[asiangirlz hack removed -mod]

[tritium]

Damn these korean girls are fine

[eon]

Someone's taken too much zinc here...

[Kewell357]

Has anyone tried amphetamines with zinc?

 

Wow, does it potentiate it or what.

[Area-1255]

Has anyone tried amphetamines with zinc?

 

Wow, does it potentiate it or what.

Use DHEA with zinc, and also L-DOPA, then you'll make sure you grab a hold of all the korean sluts and non-sluts you can find...although personally, I prefer blondes, white dutch blondes.   

[Kewell357]

 

Has anyone tried amphetamines with zinc?

 

Wow, does it potentiate it or what.

Use DHEA with zinc, and also L-DOPA, then you'll make sure you grab a hold of all the korean sluts and non-sluts you can find...although personally, I prefer blondes, white dutch blondes.   

 

 

Me too.

[deeptrance]

Inositol is an anti-nutrient?

 

He was referring to inositol hexaphosphate, AKA phytic acid, which binds to certain minerals (including zinc) and lower absorption of them. However, this seems to be an effect only pertaining to absorption, so taking IP6 to lower zn levels already in the blood stream is of questionable value. 

 

But I don't even believe that the OP experienced acute zinc toxicity in the first place. To me, it seems a bit hasty to jump to such a conclusion based on a single experience of "taking 50 mg zinc" that correlated with "felt pressure in my head." There are innumerable potential causes for such a vague feeling. The amount of zinc in the foods listed isn't terribly significant as a potential source of excess zinc, either.

 

"Acute toxicity (ingesting more than 200 mg/day of zinc) can cause: Abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhoea. Other reported effects - these include gastric irritation, headache, irritability, lethargy, anaemia and dizziness." 

www.patient.co.uk

So the symptoms don't even match. Not to mention, I have felt pressure in my head and countless other symptoms so many times without any verifiable or suspected causes, I'm really hesitant to assign blame so quickly and am very skeptical when I read one-off comments suggesting that A caused B because "This one time, A, and next thing you know, B."

 

Then again, if A = "someone fired a gun at me" and B = "I died from a gunshot wound" then the cause and effect relationship has some merit.

Edited by deeptrance, 09 January 2015 - 10:39 PM.

[Multivitz]

Zinc activates adrenalin. It balances with magnesium in the blood. It will demand the use of extra aminos and vitamins as your metabolism increases. Theres no RDA but high doses will lower magnesium witch leads to moods n cramps etc. Long term use can cause a low iron eniemia condition in the blood but a beef sandwich can help to correct that! Hope this helps.

[Plasticperson]

supplementing zinc gives me social anxiety and a low mood

[Area-1255]

Zinc activates adrenalin. It balances with magnesium in the blood. It will demand the use of extra aminos and vitamins as your metabolism increases. Theres no RDA but high doses will lower magnesium witch leads to moods n cramps etc. Long term use can cause a low iron eniemia condition in the blood but a beef sandwich can help to correct that! Hope this helps.

Zinc activates adrenaline, really? Please, do give me a source for this. I'm so interested to know where you got this INCREDIBLE information from.

[Plasticperson]

 

Zinc activates adrenalin. It balances with magnesium in the blood. It will demand the use of extra aminos and vitamins as your metabolism increases. Theres no RDA but high doses will lower magnesium witch leads to moods n cramps etc. Long term use can cause a low iron eniemia condition in the blood but a beef sandwich can help to correct that! Hope this helps.

Zinc activates adrenaline, really? Please, do give me a source for this. I'm so interested to know where you got this INCREDIBLE information from.

 

 

Iv'e experienced hyperthyroid on prolonged supplementation of zinc.. maybe thats what multivitz means by "activating adrenalin" 

[Multivitz]

Maybe you shouldn't have taken a concentrated nutrient for a long period without a break or supporting cofactors. A hyperthyroid condition caused in this manner would sort itself out once zinc suppementation is lowered(or removed by having days off of it and lowering it!) and extra exercise is undertaken. The fact that most biological enzymic systems involve Zinc, those same enzymes that manurfacture Epinephrine(adrenaline), if those systems are deficient in zinc the hormone gets produced but with a weak strength of biological activness. Electrons from a metal have prefered afinity to the metal, this goes a way to explain the zinc receptor fingers found in heart tissue and other places? Our capacity to hold an emotion for a length or time is dependent on production of the stimulating substances our body manufactures and self regulates. Zinc is used so prevalently in the bodies enzymic system it seems its presences is grossly ignored in laboratory experiment literature, instead the literature typically uses and quotes enzyme names to explain there findings, seldom referencing the INGREDIENTS!. Heres a link to pdf that should help people understand, the director of the company was the one who found out how Mercury can be a cause of autism   http://www.ifn.net.a...re 2a Igor.pdf INCREDIBLE aint it? Zinc oxide and chloride forms are too active to be used as a suppement, I would consider them as poisonous?

[Multivitz]

All modern buildings use copper piping to deliver water to us. I have read through the content of this page at    http://www.tvernonla...r-toxicity.html  and agree with all of what it says. One of the things Zinc does is displace Copper, I find one of the hidden symptoms of too much copper is 'over excitement' and the link to tvenonlac has more symptoms listed! One more reason why drinking a source of distilled water is important. Magnesium takes the 'brake' off Calcium

[Multivitz]

 

 

Has anyone tried amphetamines with zinc?

 

Wow, does it potentiate it or what.

Use DHEA with zinc, and also L-DOPA, then you'll make sure you grab a hold of all the korean sluts and non-sluts you can find...although personally, I prefer blondes, white dutch blondes.   

 

 

Me too.

 

 

I don't advocate drugs(I know DHEA aint strictly a drug), but amphetamines with L-Histidine(500mg-1500mg), (not together, but the amino a couple of hours before) makes viagra look like weak coffee . Zinc's optional but may cause heartburn.  I wouldn't recommend it to someone who has allergy problems and doesn't take antioxidants!! And abuse will cause a case of 'premature' that would have to be corrected with L-methionine . I'm married and shes half italian
 

Edited by Multivitz, 27 January 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[eon]

maybe the timing I took the zinc was not right as I stated at the start of the thread. Maybe I didn't drink a full glass of water with it. 3 days ago I took the zinc with a full glass of water and felt fine. Not sure why this is. Maybe it got diluted?