3 replies to this topic

[pone11]

Is there a better organism for testing C60 than store bought mice that live two years?

 

Some ideas that come to mind:

 

* common shrew lives about 14 months

* house mouse (I don't know the breed) lives about 12 months

* chameleons live about 12 months (would cold blooded reptiles have the same kind of oxidative stress that warm blooded mammals do?)

* common fly lives about 4 weeks (have no idea on kind of oxidative stress goes on with an insect)

 

It seems to me that researchers are using the mice they use because they are well studied, and because they have suppliers who can produce infinite quantities of them, making repetition of study results by other groups much easier.

 

We, on the other hand, don't have those limitations.   Shouldn't we be trying to find the shortest lived species possible, and then testing on that to observe a result - together with a control group - before professional researchers get done with new studies?

 

 

[niner]

That's a great idea, although there are a couple of issues that come up.  One it that the farther we get from humans, the less relevant are the results.  Another involves peoples' ability to acquire the animals in question and raise them successfully.  Things that are closer to the bug world present their own husbandry and dosing challenges that are different from, say, mice. 

[pone11]

That's a great idea, although there are a couple of issues that come up.  One it that the farther we get from humans, the less relevant are the results.  Another involves peoples' ability to acquire the animals in question and raise them successfully.  Things that are closer to the bug world present their own husbandry and dosing challenges that are different from, say, mice. 

 

Personally, I think building a little shrew zoo would be a great project, and probably someone's daughter or son would fall in love with the idea of taking care of them.

 

Finding them is tough but not impossible.  My guess is that you would lose the first ones but with some experience round two would work.

 

The main thing is can you get a dramatic result in the group with C60 versus the controls.

[resveratrol_guy]

I've observed that genetically weak (inbred) xiphophorus variatus show improvements in immune health as a result of c60oo dosing. But my data is only weakly quantitative, just enough to suggest the possibility of using them for further experiments. I discussed the situation here. mait had some useful comments toward this end, in particular the extensive history of zebrafish involvement in lifespan research. Certainly, xiphophorus variatus would have an advantage here, on account of its comparative fragility. I've tried to move the discussion here because I think this is a more appropriate thread.

 

Although they're obviously rather genetically distant from humans, they have the advantage of being cheap, widely available, mass manufactured, and immunologically weak. Their lifespan seems to depend more on complications of a weak immune system than fundamental metabolic issues, so they would make a good option for studying immune ramifications of c60oo in a usefully short timeframe. One could easily source them in large numbers from a single breeder.

 

jackxerxes asked how to dose them. It's not too difficult: just mix up compressed flake food in a roughly equal volume of c60oo, then feed. The water surface can then be skimmed of oil in order to estimate unused residual amounts.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 02 January 2015 - 09:36 PM.