37 replies to this topic

[Tubzy]

Hey guys, I'm currently trying to recover from adrenal fatigue, stimulant abuse and propecia (finasteride).  I know my GABA system is messed up due to anxiety, fatigue, low energy etc.  I have low morning cortisol which definitely taxes my energy level and creates anxiety, faitgue etc.  I was also on propecia for a year and didn't notice side effects right away but starting getting somewhat panic attacks and anxiety about 6-8 months in.  I stopped everything like stims, finasteride and everything.  I know I taxed my GABA system hard as well as my HPTA axis.  I also have difficulty concentrating too.

 

I'm currently taking:

 

-Bacopa 500mg a day

-Piracetam 4g daily

-Multivitamin

-Fish oil

-Niacin

-ALCAR

 

I also do have a hard time sleeping at night as well.  I do exercise and have a pretty clean diet.  I bodybuild (not competitively).  I'm trying to restore my body back to homeostatsis.

 

Here is my adrenal test

 

Neurotransmitter test (wasn't done at 3:00am but at 10:00am just fyi)

 

Also, not sure if this would effect the neurotransmitter test but I was on an adrenal supplement that contained ashwaganda, rhiodola and holy basil.  Would ashwaganda boost GABA make it higher on the test?

Edited by Tubzy, 30 December 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Flex]

Edit

Edited by Flex, 31 December 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Metagene]

Adrenal fatigue is not a recognized medical condition. "Neurotransmitter testing" is also unsupported by science.

http://en.m.wikipedi...Adrenal_fatigue


Validity of urinary monoamine assay sales under the “spot baseline urinary neurotransmitter testing marketing model”

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3165907/

Edited by Metagene, 31 December 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[Tubzy]

Adrenal fatigue is not a recognized medical condition. "Neurotransmitter testing" is also unsupported by science.

http://en.m.wikipedi...Adrenal_fatigue


Validity of urinary monoamine assay sales under the “spot baseline urinary neurotransmitter testing marketing model”

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3165907/

 

Thanks for the response,  I'm aware that adrenal fatigue isn't a real thing and that's most likely why I didn't go to a doctor but my question is why aren't m adrenals producing cortisol/hormones etc.  I did abuse stimulants which led me down the path of over stimulating my adrenals.  What should I focus on for recovering?

Edited by Tubzy, 31 December 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[Flex]

Ashwa is in my view not as good as magnolia for gaba but worth a try, why not.

You could give kava kava a try as well in regards of gaba modulation. Because it has modluatory actions compared to the former ones

but it could be toxic for the liver, so dont use it too often.

 

Consider that Cortisol can be related to anxiety, mood and fatigue.

Therefore could liquorice be helpful but it reduces testosterone, perhaps Rehmannia Glutinosa could be helpful too in regards of glucocorticoids.

 

I´ve taken a look into "post finasteride syndrome" but it seems that the mechanism of perresistent reduction of 5-alpha reductase 1/2 in the prostate as well as in the Brain is not exactly known.

The low levels of Glucocorticoids are caused by a too low 5-alpha activity regarding the links below. So the mentioned ones above cant supposedly "heal" this. 

The same counts for the low gaba which is caused by low levels of DHT.

I could only find that the 5-alpha receptor expession is lowered by methylation of the gene and that Nrf2(also implicated in epigenetic regulation) is activated by Finasteride.

So by demethylating, and therefore activating the receptor gene, the homeostasis "could/should" be reversed.. but I dont know it for sure

Nevertheless, I guess there would be some promizing news in the next 1 or 2 Years.

 

Here are the links:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....44/#!po=20.5882

http://onlinelibrary...02/smrj.19/full

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3762299/

You can find more infos in google scholar

 

Note:

- I´m not a doc so better rely on the doc instead of us amateurs, I´m actually just trying to help.

- Please check for any interactions when using herbs and compounds e.g. bloodthinning properties (like for ashwa and Rehmannia) or even better ask a professional.

- Try allways to buy extracts instead of powder, to ensure a certain potency. Although this is not needed for kava kava.

Edited by Flex, 01 January 2015 - 03:38 AM.

[Tubzy]

Ashwa is in my view not as good as magnolia for gaba but worth a try, why not.

You could give kava kava a try as well in regards of gaba modulation. Because it has modluatory actions compared to the former ones

but it could be toxic for the liver, so dont use it too often.

 

Consider that Cortisol can be related to anxiety, mood and fatigue.

Therefore could liquorice be helpful but it reduces testosterone, perhaps Rehmannia Glutinosa could be helpful too in regards of glucocorticoids.

 

I´ve taken a look into "post finasteride syndrome" but it seems that the mechanism of perresistent reduction of 5-alpha reductase 1/2 in the prostate as well as in the Brain is not exactly known.

The low levels of Glucocorticoids are caused by a too low 5-alpha activity regarding the links below. So the mentioned ones above cant supposedly "heal" this. 

The same counts for the low gaba which is caused by low levels of DHT.

I could only find that the 5-alpha receptor expession is lowered by methylation of the gene and that Nrf2(also implicated in epigenetic regulation) is activated by Finasteride.

So by demethylating, and therefore activating the receptor gene, the homeostasis "could/should" be reversed.. but I dont know it for sure

Nevertheless, I guess there would be some promizing news in the next 1 or 2 Years.

 

Here are the links:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....44/#!po=20.5882

http://onlinelibrary...02/smrj.19/full

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3762299/

You can find more infos in google scholar

 

Note:

- I´m not a doc so better rely on the doc instead of us amateurs, I´m actually just trying to help.

- Please check for any interactions when using herbs and compounds e.g. bloodthinning properties (like for ashwa and Rehmannia) or even better ask a professional.

- Try allways to buy extracts instead of powder, to ensure a certain potency. Although this is not needed for kava kava.

 

Thanks, I will pick up this for the cortisol issue http://www.swansonvi...-1-fl-oz-liquid

 

I think I found out why I have a hard time sleeping/waking up at night.  My cortisol is higher at night but drops around 2am or 3am and causes the adrenaline surges which wakes me and can't fall back to sleep.  Hence, that's why I wake up with low morning cortisol (fatigue etc.).

 

For the low DHT, is their anything I could take to restore the 5 alpha activity?  In theory, if I had high DHT levels would most of these symptoms disappear with my adrenals and cortisol imbalance etc?

 

Bacopa could help the gaba system as well.

 

 

Edited by Tubzy, 01 January 2015 - 08:31 PM.

[Flex]

Youre welcome

Afaik it should dissapear when Youre supplementing DHT. Area-1255 has more knowledge in thoose regards.

http://www.longecity...5078-area-1255/

Although I dont agree allways with him.

This dont means that he would allways agree with me .

 

I´ve taken allready a look via google scholar but it seems that the scientist have largely looked for natural inhibitors than activators. It could also mean that there arent many activators dunno,

but the main thing is; 5-alpha is down so an activator Couldnt/shouldnt help (from my amateurish knowledge), unless it upregulates the receptor expression.

 

Its sometimes a huge pain to find the right informations, because some studies arent tagged. So if You look for: "herbal / natural / compound 5-alpha reducatase"

You will miss that one article wher they say as an example: Vitamin B or EGCG restores/increases 5-alpha function

Even if You look only for: "restores/increases 5-alpha" You´ll get problably mostly useless informations.

Therefore this is something that consumes a lot of time and I just dont know it better

 

I´ve looked 1+ years for herbal canabinoid antagonists (cb1) and just found only a few, with plain luck...

Otherwise You can look for something what helps for You currently and wait for new publications and ask in reddit/psychiatry and related subreddits.

Apart from Psychiatrists, there are sometimes even Scientist. So You could try Your luck there as well.

 

In regards of bacopa, You could give it a try but Ashwa had for me stronger gaba effects and magnolia was stronger than ashwa.

I dont want You to loose money because of my advice, therefore better re-check the suggestions by asking someone other too. 

Edited by Flex, 01 January 2015 - 11:11 PM.

[Area-1255]

1.) I'm surprised if your libido wouldn't be shot with histamine and glutamate that low...especially being you are post-fina now.

 

2.) Bake foods that require flour, with sorghum flour , such as cookies etc - instead of regular flour, and also other doughy foods and such ...sorghum is a grain known to increase 5-alpha-reductase.

 

• Consider creatine supplements to boost 5-AR.
• Consider boron supplements to boost DHT.

 

3.) DHT; DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, it's very complex, but means everything in mood and such, and it actually inhibits cortisol unless the level is so high and it is coupled with other means of adrenaline surges....then DHT might take the adrenaline right over the edge, but in itself, is actually inhibitory on cortisol, and sometimes, DHT can reduce excess adrenaline, especially when it converts into 3-a-diol ; the lack of DHT and suppressed enzymes converting it into 3-a-diol over time, likely accounts for much of post-fina depression and anxiety - as well as premature ejaculation and other sexual disturbances.

 

4.) I would also look into magnolia as opposed to ashwagandha for your particular use....they are both good, but if you are recovering from fina, you need more than a mimitic, you need something to re-potentiate the receptor....using magnolia plus rosemarinic acid extract from life extension would be good. Because rosemarinic acid stops the reuptake of GABA, leading to heightened GABAergic function.

 

5.) Keep working out and eating healthy, eat plenty of omega-3's, and tone down on rice based and corn based products!

 

 

6.) Consider an HPTA rejuvenator with a SERM Complex, driven sports Triazole is a good one.

 

7.) Aminos such as L-lysine, L-theanine, and adding other carnitine analogues may help.

 

8.) Do everything you can to get more sleep at night....take melatonin at night if necessary.

 

9.) Avoid serotonin precursors and supplements, which may cause a greater HPTA disturbance and raise prolactin now that you are or may be more susceptible due to being post-fina.

 

10.) Drink pomegranate juice lightly, but not too much either...also recommend drinking mangosteen juice, which is good for all glands..including the hypothalamus.

Edited by Area-1255, 01 January 2015 - 10:58 PM.

[Flex]

 

Area-1255 has more knowledge in thoose regards.

 

As i said

@Area I stumbled upon Your site and read about 5-ht2a antagonists

I found out that uncaria rhynchophylla is a 5-ht2a antagonist if You´re interrested. Altough not solely

See table 1

http://www.longecity...ts/#entry681626

Edited by Flex, 01 January 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[Tubzy]

For the libido, it's not as strong as it used to be pre-fin how to do I increase glutamate and histamine? Would glutamine help?

Also, I was abusing stims as well to the post fin which I know contributed to screwing up my HPTA.

I have relora I got from vitamin Shoppe which I'll start to take again. Thats right I want to repair rather then help deal with symptoms like what ashwaganda would do.

Is this the right one ?
http://www.lifeexten...exwistroac.html

So in short, regulating and increasing my DHT should help normalize my HPTA function etc?

Thanks again guys

Edited by Tubzy, 01 January 2015 - 11:25 PM.

[Flex]

Cant say whether DHT would normalize the HPA dunno

 

I would consider 9me beta cabergoline for Stim recovery

http://www.longecity...nergic-neurons/

There are several compounds/herbs that can help to calm the HPA axis as well like polygala tenuifolia or rhodiola rosea

cant say which is far better

 

Btw: relora is the main ingerident of Rehmannia glutinosa

[Area-1255]

For the libido, it's not as strong as it used to be pre-fin how to do I increase glutamate and histamine? Would glutamine help?

Also, I was abusing stims as well to the post fin which I know contributed to screwing up my HPTA.

I have relora I got from vitamin Shoppe which I'll start to take again. Thats right I want to repair rather then help deal with symptoms like what ashwaganda would do.

Is this the right one ?
http://www.lifeexten...exwistroac.html

So in short, regulating and increasing my DHT should help normalize my HPTA function etc?

Thanks again guys

DHT is a potent regulator of both estrogen and prolactin , so it's extremely important in estrogen balance for men.

That's the correct rosemarinic acid extract.

Relora will work well. 

Especially with rosemarinic acid.

Pitolisant from transhuman technologies, plus folic acid should increase the histamine....

Getting more protein in your diet will help. Center on egg whites and seafood if possible.

[Tubzy]

Ok, I'm actually in pretty good shape still and my strength is still up. I take a b complex and everything but how much folic acid do I need? I'll get the supplements you guys recommended and check back.

So basically gaba and DHT work with each other so if gaba was high in theory DHT would be high and vice versa?

Also with all these supplements they will repair rather than just cover up the symptoms?

Edited by Tubzy, 01 January 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[Area-1255]

Ok, I'm actually in pretty good shape still and my strength is still up. I take a b complex and everything but how much folic acid do I need? I'll get the supplements you guys recommended and check back.

So basically gaba and DHT work with each other so if gaba was high in theory DHT would be high and vice versa?

Sort of, Dihydrotestosterone decreases glutamate, and potentiates GABA through erBeta, and does so more when it converts into 3-a-diol....

DHT stimulates the CNS to an extent, but yet balances it out...it simultaneously raises both GABA and adrenergic activity.

You need DHT to maintain normal blood pressure, to prevent it from going to high , and from going too low..

DHT helps homeostasis in short....and opposes water retention and elevated blood pressure caused by estrogen.

 

If GABA is elevated, it reduces cortisol - which then leads to increased testosterone and DHT.

800 mcg, 200 % folic acid should be good. once a day or twice.

[Tubzy]

Ok, my b complex includes methyl folate is that fine? I ordered the rest of my stuff I'll keep you posted

[Tubzy]

 

Ok, I'm actually in pretty good shape still and my strength is still up. I take a b complex and everything but how much folic acid do I need? I'll get the supplements you guys recommended and check back.

So basically gaba and DHT work with each other so if gaba was high in theory DHT would be high and vice versa?

Sort of, Dihydrotestosterone decreases glutamate, and potentiates GABA through erBeta, and does so more when it converts into 3-a-diol....
DHT stimulates the CNS to an extent, but yet balances it out...it simultaneously raises both GABA and adrenergic activity.
You need DHT to maintain normal blood pressure, to prevent it from going to high , and from going too low..
DHT helps homeostasis in short....and opposes water retention and elevated blood pressure caused by estrogen.

If GABA is elevated, it reduces cortisol - which then leads to increased testosterone and DHT.

800 mcg, 200 % folic acid should be good. once a day or twice.

I read your blog http://area1255.blog...of-dht.html?m=1

I think It makes sense that raising DHT would correct a lot of the symptoms with adrenal fatigue and raising my GABA, epinephrine since they came up low. Hopefully, correcting depression, insomnia and libido.

Also, I'm using ru58841 with success but I'm not sure if that could be slowing down or preventing my recovery.  I did a cycle of drol 3 years ago which def sped up my hairloss which lead me to jump on finasteride for about a year than I got off once I realized all the sides it was causing me.

 

I also have a bottle of RS transderm sitting in my cabinet.

Edited by Tubzy, 04 January 2015 - 02:32 AM.

[Tubzy]

I had a saliva hormone panel done..nothing seems to crazy out of wack right?  Besides melatonin, which I may have taken the night before which raised the levels that high.  Testosterone is low too....not sure about DHT.

Edited by Tubzy, 15 January 2015 - 01:32 AM.

[3mp0w3r]

Saliva hormone panel?  Don't think that is accepted as legit medicine either...

[sensei]

 

You could give kava kava a try as well in regards of gaba modulation. Because it has modluatory actions compared to the former ones

but it could be toxic for the liver, so dont use it too often.

 

 

 

The only time kava has been shown to be toxic to the liver was in a few cases of concommittant alcohol use/abuse,

 

And

 

​In the early days of the kava craze, some unscrupulous companies used stems/leaves instead of only the root.

 

There is an hepatotoxic alkaloid found in the stems and the leaves, not in the root. -- that is what led to the cases of liver failure reported.

Edited by sensei, 15 January 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[Tubzy]

Do you know how to get around being in a restricted state for lab tests? Private MD labs lists my state as a restricted state so I would go for a blood test but I'm not sure how to get around it.

[3mp0w3r]

Do you know how to get around being in a restricted state for lab tests? Private MD labs lists my state as a restricted state so I would go for a blood test but I'm not sure how to get around it.

 

Ah, sorry.  I noticed that some labs do saliva tests for cortisol and find it almost as accurate as blood.  But the rule of thumb is that serum levels are more accurate for most other hormones.  

I found it strange that they checked estrogen, testosterone etc on a saliva test.  

 

If you have concerns about the non adrenal hormones, get them ordered separately and maybe they would do it differently.  Not sure though.  I am in a different country!

 

The likelihood is that no test will show you conclusive evidence of why you have your symptoms.  Everyone hopes that there is a simple answer for fatigue but it rarely pans out on simple tests.  That is one reason why there are so many supplements and books and other garbage.  It is a huge problem that affects many people but traditional medicine doesn't have many magic solutions.  It will probably take a bit of trial and error to figure out what works.

[Metagene]

Do you know how to get around being in a restricted state for lab tests? Private MD labs lists my state as a restricted state so I would go for a blood test but I'm not sure how to get around it.

Ah, sorry. I noticed that some labs do saliva tests for cortisol and find it almost as accurate as blood. But the rule of thumb is that serum levels are more accurate for most other hormones.
I found it strange that they checked estrogen, testosterone etc on a saliva test.

If you have concerns about the non adrenal hormones, get them ordered separately and maybe they would do it differently. Not sure though. I am in a different country!

The likelihood is that no test will show you conclusive evidence of why you have your symptoms. Everyone hopes that there is a simple answer for fatigue but it rarely pans out on simple tests. That is one reason why there are so many supplements and books and other garbage. It is a huge problem that affects many people but traditional medicine doesn't have many magic solutions. It will probably take a bit of trial and error to figure out what works.

Yeah using saliva to measure cortisol should be fine. I'd would avoid companies like Neuroscience Inc however. I probably spent well over 3 grand going to a "Chiropractor" (Homeopath) who pushed that nonsense among other things. Chalk it up to ignorance and sheer desperation.

[Tubzy]

My worst problem is sleeping. Does acetylcholine help regulate circadian rhythm? I have been taking 800mg of alpha gpc and 250mg of cdp choline breakfast and lunch and I think I feel better and helps me sleep.

[Flex]

I take every day 45mg mitrazepine which should actually knocks off the most people but is for me sometimes even not sufficient.

When I take huperizine a, I feel in the evening exhausted and I´m able to fall somtimes without anything asleep.

 

So in my case, yes due a kind of exhaustion

Edited by Flex, 15 January 2015 - 11:13 PM.

[Area-1255]

My worst problem is sleeping. Does acetylcholine help regulate circadian rhythm? I have been taking 800mg of alpha gpc and 250mg of cdp choline breakfast and lunch and I think I feel better and helps me sleep.

Yes, acetylcholine plays a role in melatonin synthesis and growth hormone secretion rhythms.

http://www.sleepdex.org/neuro.htm

http://onlinelibrary...97.sp021930/pdf

[Tubzy]

 

My worst problem is sleeping. Does acetylcholine help regulate circadian rhythm? I have been taking 800mg of alpha gpc and 250mg of cdp choline breakfast and lunch and I think I feel better and helps me sleep.

Yes, acetylcholine plays a role in melatonin synthesis and growth hormone secretion rhythms.

http://www.sleepdex.org/neuro.htm

http://onlinelibrary...97.sp021930/pdf

 

 

Thanks.  Is that the correct dosage timing like breakfast and lunch?  I'm doing:

 

Breakfast:

-Triazole

-Alpha GPC (jarrow) 800mg

-CDP choline 250mg

-Galantamine 8mg

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

-3 raw eggs

 

Lunch:

-Triazole

-Alpha GPC (jarrow) 800mg

-CDP choline 250mg

-Galantamine 8mg

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

 

Dinner:

-Triazole

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

 

I was taking huperzine but I think it was giving me headaches.  I do take royal jelly capsules too.  Would that be also good for regulating my hypothalamus and hormones like DHT too?  I just want to make sure I'm dosing it at the correct times for the circadian rhythm.  Also, with the phosphatidylserine I'm not sure I should be taking it in the morning if I have low cortisol.

Edited by Tubzy, 16 January 2015 - 01:04 AM.

[Area-1255]

 

 

My worst problem is sleeping. Does acetylcholine help regulate circadian rhythm? I have been taking 800mg of alpha gpc and 250mg of cdp choline breakfast and lunch and I think I feel better and helps me sleep.

Yes, acetylcholine plays a role in melatonin synthesis and growth hormone secretion rhythms.

http://www.sleepdex.org/neuro.htm

http://onlinelibrary...97.sp021930/pdf

 

 

Thanks.  Is that the correct dosage timing like breakfast and lunch?  I'm doing:

 

Breakfast:

-Triazole

-Alpha GPC (jarrow) 800mg

-CDP choline 250mg

-Galantamine 8mg

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

-3 raw eggs

 

Lunch:

-Triazole

-Alpha GPC (jarrow) 800mg

-CDP choline 250mg

-Galantamine 8mg

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

 

Dinner:

-Triazole

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

 

I was taking huperzine but I think it was giving me headaches.  I do take royal jelly capsules too.  Would that be also good for regulating my hypothalamus and hormones like DHT too?  I just want to make sure I'm dosing it at the correct times for the circadian rhythm.  Also, with the phosphatidylserine I'm not sure I should be taking it in the morning if I have low cortisol.

 

As I've said many times, low cortisol in itself is not bad, only if the reason for low cortisol is due to adrenal fatigue, think : bodybuilders nearly eliminate cortisol completely on cycle, and still feel great for the most part...same with estrogen, although estrogen is a little more genetic dependent and based on many other factors...but on the low-end of normal estro is not bad....at nearly undetectable you might have joint and libido issues ; although some fellas never get neither of those issues with even the lowest quartile E2; alot is genetically set.

I've always said , and it seems that if you have high dopamine combined with high DHT, you are much less likely to get low libido as a side-effect of low estrogen - but if your dopamine is just mid-range or alright, then it will probably go in the crapper.

 

ROYAL JELLY; can lower prolactin on the genetic level of mRNA; a very good thing indeed and one of the few substances capable of doing this.

 

Quick question; do you take lithium, depakote or other mood stabilizers known to affect cortisol secretion?

[Tubzy]

 

 

 

My worst problem is sleeping. Does acetylcholine help regulate circadian rhythm? I have been taking 800mg of alpha gpc and 250mg of cdp choline breakfast and lunch and I think I feel better and helps me sleep.

Yes, acetylcholine plays a role in melatonin synthesis and growth hormone secretion rhythms.

http://www.sleepdex.org/neuro.htm

http://onlinelibrary...97.sp021930/pdf

 

 

Thanks.  Is that the correct dosage timing like breakfast and lunch?  I'm doing:

 

Breakfast:

-Triazole

-Alpha GPC (jarrow) 800mg

-CDP choline 250mg

-Galantamine 8mg

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

-3 raw eggs

 

Lunch:

-Triazole

-Alpha GPC (jarrow) 800mg

-CDP choline 250mg

-Galantamine 8mg

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

 

Dinner:

-Triazole

-Phosphatidylserine 100mg

 

I was taking huperzine but I think it was giving me headaches.  I do take royal jelly capsules too.  Would that be also good for regulating my hypothalamus and hormones like DHT too?  I just want to make sure I'm dosing it at the correct times for the circadian rhythm.  Also, with the phosphatidylserine I'm not sure I should be taking it in the morning if I have low cortisol.

 

As I've said many times, low cortisol in itself is not bad, only if the reason for low cortisol is due to adrenal fatigue, think : bodybuilders nearly eliminate cortisol completely on cycle, and still feel great for the most part...same with estrogen, although estrogen is a little more genetic dependent and based on many other factors...but on the low-end of normal estro is not bad....at nearly undetectable you might have joint and libido issues ; although some fellas never get neither of those issues with even the lowest quartile E2; alot is genetically set.

I've always said , and it seems that if you have high dopamine combined with high DHT, you are much less likely to get low libido as a side-effect of low estrogen - but if your dopamine is just mid-range or alright, then it will probably go in the crapper.

 

ROYAL JELLY; can lower prolactin on the genetic level of mRNA; a very good thing indeed and one of the few substances capable of doing this.

 

Quick question; do you take lithium, depakote or other mood stabilizers known to affect cortisol secretion?

 

 

No, I don't.  I have lithium orotate capsules but I never opened them.  I never had a cortisol problem, I came off finasteride in November of 2013 and was using stimulants heavy for working out.  It slowly got harder and harder to sleep as time went on (all the way until about March 2014) until I figured out it had to be cortisol related.  Then I got tested and said high midnight cortisol and low morning cortisol.  I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if it's mainly related to coming off finasteride (taxes adrenals too) and having low DHT/low GABA which lead me to high nighttime cortisol or just abusing stimulants and overworking my adrenals.  Other symptoms that lead me to believe it's adrenal burnout is consistent sickness, really hard time dealing with stress and headaches.  I believe my DHEA was in the normal range.  My HPTA axis must be out of wack.

 

Acetylcholine may be my best bet to restore homeostatis.

 

Basically I need to normalize my abnormal circadian rhythm somehow.

Edited by Tubzy, 16 January 2015 - 02:13 AM.

[Tubzy]

Also, I should have mentioned I am using 100mg of RU58841 every night since I came off of fin. It's not really suppose to get systematic but some people have experienced side effects. I'm going to get off and see if anything changes.

[Tubzy]

I just picked up a bottle of epi andro. Someone on another forum mentioned they used androhard from PP and it helped restore 5ar/DHT levels to homeostasis.  I'm going to run a cycle and see what happens.

 

I had a blood test last week..everything came back normal test was at 760.  I didn't have DHT checked though and estrogen was about mid range.  Cholestrol and CBC was all good as well.

 

I started a DAA/Erase cycle this week and I have more confidence and can handle stress now way easier which has to be DHT related.  I'm assuming since the DAA is increasing free test and it cant convert to estro so it's going the DHT route.  I read that DHT inhibits cortisol so hence that's why I can handle stress way better.

Edited by Tubzy, 15 February 2015 - 12:57 AM.