9 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

So here it is. If someone put a gun to your head and made you choose one or the other, which would it be and why? 

[niner]

When you say highly muscular bodybuilder, do you mean one of those roided-out freaks, or someone with more natural-looking musculature?   Being a fighter sounds like it would require a well-rounded degree of fitness and agility, so I'd probably choose that.  Then I could do a Bruce Lee thing on the guy with the gun.  A big part of the decision is based on which choice will get you laid more often.  I have a feeling that, all else being equal, you'd have a better chance with women if you have nice muscles, as long as they aren't freakish-looking.

[TheFountain]

Niner, I am talking about a body builders physique vs a natural fighters body. 

 

And to answer my own question I would much prefer a natural fighters body. 

 

This way a certain degree of muscle remains but the bulk s not required to take care of some business.

 

I will go right ahead and disagree with the getting laid part.

 

I find that body builder types don't get with the kind of girls I prefer. They get with them 'easy' women. The kind of women who, by the time they get to you, you can smell the mileage, if you catch my verbatim. 

 

I find that good women, women who a man would wanna actually reproduce with, prefer a well rounded individual on all fronts. 

 

Talkin yin/yang balance my friend. 

 

Any martial artists I have known have been far more totally confident in themselves than any body builders I have ever known. 

 

Because an MMA guy knows he can take care of business if some body builder tries some crap on him. To put it another way a guy who knows how to fight but is smaller will typically out 'alpha' the so called 'alpha'. 

 

And with the whole 'women' thing, it's quantity vs quality. 

 

I'll take one good woman over 50 street trash receptacles in any lifetime. 

 

My energy is a valuable thing so what it gets spent on is a valuable choice. 

 

BTW 

 

I do MMA myself, and I tap out bigger guys frequently enough to know how valuable that is. 

Edited by TheFountain, 11 January 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[TheFountain]

Anybody else? 

[DonManley]

I don't really care that much about my physical fitness compared to my mental fitness. Physical fitness for me is required mostly because it keeps my mind sharper and makes me happier. However, I definitely see the appeal in fighting. It activates something  primal. It can make everyday "problems" seem pale in contrast. After all, usually in everyday life nobody wants to choke you (e.g. Brazilian Jiu Jutsu) or knock you out (e.g. MMA). And if you come into martial arts late as a newbie, you'll probably get manhandled and humiliated for a couple of years, which will be good for character building. E.g., in BJJ even small girls can choke, tap out a big guy, if they had a lot more experience, going through that experience can be good for narcissistic / arrogant type of guys. Everything above can be a form of spiritual liberation.

 

That being said, obviously, fighting can be extremely dangerous for the brain. "Oh that MMA veteran is so sharp" - said no one ever. It's miserable to look at retired fighters. IMO, to be a fighter, you have to have a certain amount of naivete about how easy it is to damage the brain and how irreparable that damage is or you have to just genuinely don't give a damn about your well-being. And I don't posses both of those characteristics. I was naive enough to do parkour / acrobatics in the past and now I regret it, because it was a stupid decision. Doing movements where your body and head suddenly stops or hits something is a good recipe for brain micro trauma. Hearing Dr. Mark Gordon and Rhonda Patrick (on Joe Rogan podcast, who is an UFC commentator and ex MMA fighter, so he often asks about the brain) talk about how easy it is to damage the brain and how often undetectable that is makes me reluctant to desire any sport that can facilitate that damage happening.

 

As for bulking muscle, with all those methionine restriction studies coming out, it's getting increasingly confusing (at least for me) about how to think about all those trade-offs and whether it's even worth building extra muscles or not.

 

I think the question contains a double bind. You give a choice between one form of physical appearance or another form of physical appearance and the presupposition is that either one makes critical difference when it comes to attraction. I think what makes the critical difference is being able to out-fun, out-joke, out-talk, out-confidence other guys, while everything else are just merely bonus points. And I actually believe that mostly the same thing is true (perhaps just to a lesser degree) for women. I think we guys often tend to underestimate how subjective our perception of woman's attractiveness is. The woman's version of this question would be whether to have a miracle bottom or a big front. Admittedly either one will contribute to the first impression or your chance to a person's attention, but then there are a lot of other factors that can kill that attraction, from bad chemistry in bed to leaving a perception that the smartest thing that came out of her mouth was a d.

 

Look at RSD Tyler for example. The guy is self-proclaimed bald ginger troll, but, to repeat a cheesy phrase, he gets laid like a rock star.

[TheFountain]

I don't really care that much about my physical fitness compared to my mental fitness. Physical fitness for me is required mostly because it keeps my mind sharper and makes me happier. However, I definitely see the appeal in fighting. It activates something  primal. It can make everyday "problems" seem pale in contrast. After all, usually in everyday life nobody wants to choke you (e.g. Brazilian Jiu Jutsu) or knock you out (e.g. MMA). And if you come into martial arts late as a newbie, you'll probably get manhandled and humiliated for a couple of years, which will be good for character building. E.g., in BJJ even small girls can choke, tap out a big guy, if they had a lot more experience, going through that experience can be good for narcissistic / arrogant type of guys. Everything above can be a form of spiritual liberation.

 

That being said, obviously, fighting can be extremely dangerous for the brain. "Oh that MMA veteran is so sharp" - said no one ever. It's miserable to look at retired fighters. IMO, to be a fighter, you have to have a certain amount of naivete about how easy it is to damage the brain and how irreparable that damage is or you have to just genuinely don't give a damn about your well-being. And I don't posses both of those characteristics. I was naive enough to do parkour / acrobatics in the past and now I regret it, because it was a stupid decision. Doing movements where your body and head suddenly stops or hits something is a good recipe for brain micro trauma. Hearing Dr. Mark Gordon and Rhonda Patrick (on Joe Rogan podcast, who is an UFC commentator and ex MMA fighter, so he often asks about the brain) talk about how easy it is to damage the brain and how often undetectable that is makes me reluctant to desire any sport that can facilitate that damage happening.

 

As for bulking muscle, with all those methionine restriction studies coming out, it's getting increasingly confusing (at least for me) about how to think about all those trade-offs and whether it's even worth building extra muscles or not.

 

I think the question contains a double bind. You give a choice between one form of physical appearance or another form of physical appearance and the presupposition is that either one makes critical difference when it comes to attraction. I think what makes the critical difference is being able to out-fun, out-joke, out-talk, out-confidence other guys, while everything else are just merely bonus points. And I actually believe that mostly the same thing is true (perhaps just to a lesser degree) for women. I think we guys often tend to underestimate how subjective our perception of woman's attractiveness is. The woman's version of this question would be whether to have a miracle bottom or a big front. Admittedly either one will contribute to the first impression or your chance to a person's attention, but then there are a lot of other factors that can kill that attraction, from bad chemistry in bed to leaving a perception that the smartest thing that came out of her mouth was a d.

 

Look at RSD Tyler for example. The guy is self-proclaimed bald ginger troll, but, to repeat a cheesy phrase, he gets laid like a rock star.

 

If you train smartly, for self defense, peace of mind and physical fitness, your chances of brain damage are zero. 

 

The traumatic brain injury Joe Rogan and Dr. Rhonda Patrick were discussing had to do with full fledged cage fighting injuries. 

 

In sparring at the clubs I train at we usually use head gear so as to minimize the risks of concussive brain injuries which may accumulate over the years.

 

I am talking about equity. You have professional fighters and then you have people who are practitioners of the arts who do it for self betterment. 

 

If merely training MMA causes "micro-brain injury" then imagine what being a friggin football player does, or a construction worker for that matter. 

[TheFountain]

Oh the reason I asked this question BTW is two fold.

 

1-energy commitment. What do I want to commit my energy toward daily? What activity will help to keep me healthy and fit but also have functional significance? Muhammad Ali never lifted weights. Rhonda Rousey does not lift weights.

 

2-Muscle memory. I am not absolutely sure about this but I have a hunch that the kind of muscle memory we create in the fighting arts and the kind of muscle memory we create bodybuilding may potentially interfere with one another. So the question was meant, in a sense, to address this potential conflict in muscle memory expression. The "if" it came down to a choice thing. 

 

This could be the reason the best MMA fighters are not necessarily the biggest and most muscular. 

 

Fedor Emeliananko comes to mind. Had muscle but it was functional muscle, covered with a layer of fat. 

Edited by TheFountain, 15 January 2015 - 12:26 AM.

[DonManley]

 

 

If you train smartly, for self defense, peace of mind and physical fitness, your chances of brain damage are zero. 

 

The traumatic brain injury Joe Rogan and Dr. Rhonda Patrick were discussing had to do with full fledged cage fighting injuries. 

 

In sparring at the clubs I train at we usually use head gear so as to minimize the risks of concussive brain injuries which may accumulate over the years.

 

I am talking about equity. You have professional fighters and then you have people who are practitioners of the arts who do it for self betterment. 

 

If merely training MMA causes "micro-brain injury" then imagine what being a friggin football player does, or a construction worker for that matter. 

 

 

Actually, I heard on that podcast somebody talking about football players and construction workers as well. According to them, they were also at risk of getting brain trauma. To examine football in particular, if you play professional football, they all are at very high risk. The latest headlines were "76 of 79 of diseased NFL players found to have brain disease". Of course, that study in particular is a bit flawed, because people who suspect having a brain disease are more likely to donate their brain for examination. But it just a small piece of the trend, where more and more information comes out about the dangers of the sport, even when it's not played professionally.

 

Here is just one link about the high school study.

 

Talavage detected (possible) brain damage in 50% of High School football players who reported no concussion. They had plenty of “hits”, of course, but reportedly no concussion.

 

And if you google, construction workers "comprise one of the largest groups of workers who suffer from TBI".

 

I think it was Dr. Mark Gordon, who mentioned that he had a patient who managed to damage his brain by crashing his car at some extremely low speed. IIRC, it was something like 7 km / hr speed. And I think he also mentioned a couple of other ridiculously innocent examples which were unrelated to any professional sport. So it seems to be a lot easier to damage the brain that most  people think.

 

That being said, I'm merely parroting what I heard and read.  Logically, I don't think that the brain cares if it's a peaceful training or a cage fight. Of course, the latter will have a LOT more risk and power involved. But in the former scenario the brain also quickly gets displaced and has to absorb some force routinely. Look at any slo-mo videos of how even weak punches look.   I think there is no "zero risk" sport out there. When it comes to fighting in particular, probably grappling (like BJJ) will be the only one that will not have high risk. And here are links to the timelines from the JRE podcasts discussing those things: Rhonda Patrick and Mark Gordon.

Edited by DonManley, 15 January 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[TheFountain]

 

 

 

If you train smartly, for self defense, peace of mind and physical fitness, your chances of brain damage are zero. 

 

The traumatic brain injury Joe Rogan and Dr. Rhonda Patrick were discussing had to do with full fledged cage fighting injuries. 

 

In sparring at the clubs I train at we usually use head gear so as to minimize the risks of concussive brain injuries which may accumulate over the years.

 

I am talking about equity. You have professional fighters and then you have people who are practitioners of the arts who do it for self betterment. 

 

If merely training MMA causes "micro-brain injury" then imagine what being a friggin football player does, or a construction worker for that matter. 

 

 

Actually, I heard on that podcast somebody talking about football players and construction workers as well. According to them, they were also at risk of getting brain trauma. To examine football in particular, if you play professional football, they all are at very high risk. The latest headlines were "76 of 79 of diseased NFL players found to have brain disease". Of course, that study in particular is a bit flawed, because people who suspect having a brain disease are more likely to donate their brain for examination. But it just a small piece of the trend, where more and more information comes out about the dangers of the sport, even when it's not played professionally.

 

Here is just one link about the high school study.

 

Talavage detected (possible) brain damage in 50% of High School football players who reported no concussion. They had plenty of “hits”, of course, but reportedly no concussion.

 

And if you google, construction workers "comprise one of the largest groups of workers who suffer from TBI".

 

I think it was Dr. Mark Gordon, who mentioned that he had a patient who managed to damage his brain by crashing his car at some extremely low speed. IIRC, it was something like 7 km / hr speed. And I think he also mentioned a couple of other ridiculously innocent examples which were unrelated to any professional sport. So it seems to be a lot easier to damage the brain that most  people think.

 

That being said, I'm merely parroting what I heard and read.  Logically, I don't think that the brain cares if it's a peaceful training or a cage fight. Of course, the latter will have a LOT more risk and power involved. But in the former scenario the brain also quickly gets displaced and has to absorb some force routinely. Look at any slo-mo videos of how even weak punches look.   I think there is no "zero risk" sport out there. When it comes to fighting in particular, probably grappling (like BJJ) will be the only one that will not have high risk. And here are links to the timelines from the JRE podcasts discussing those things: Rhonda Patrick and Mark Gordon.

 

 

 

Look, do you wanna live or do you wanna merely exist?

 

I train MMA safely and sometimes I take calculated risks because I know they will not harm me long term.

 

I damaged my shoulder during a tournament (torn ligament) and the resiliency of my body took over and healed me within 6 months. 

 

I like living, having the feeling I am doing something, ya dig?

 

Waking up in the morning, eating breakfast and taking a walk is not 'zero risk'. 

 

What I meant is zero risk of any noticeable brain damage. 

 

Eat right, take your MCTs, your cognitive boosters, your resveratrol and you'll be fine. 

 

Part of longevity is the living proof factor of "hey I am here, I am doing this and it feels great and I look great"! Instead of opining that every other thing is a risk factor. 

 

Just watch yourself, move at a reasonable pace and everything will be fine. 

[StevesPetRat]

I would choose to be a French poodle.