179 replies to this topic

[Metagene]

I found a few similar reports posted here.

http://m.steadyhealt...ng_t123962.html

[mani16]

Yes Thankyou.  I have read them.  Sadly no one has said whether they ended up achieving full recovery :(

[OneScrewLoose]

I really think you need to consider nocebo effects. This is not from a place of judgement, I have dealt with many myself, and it doesn't make one's mind weaker. Placebo effects seem to be strong in about 30% of the population, and there seems to be no personality aspects that predispose one to these effects. Not intelligence, willpower, stability, or anything. It seems to be randomly distributed in the population.

Let me tell you about my experiences. After 1 DXM trip, 3 weeks later I started to get bad HPPD (visual distortions). it seemed so strange that one trip, especially from a dissociative instead of a psychedelic, could cause this, but I accepted it. What kept happening though, was that, more and more, any drug I took, no matter the class, made my HPPD worse. Even supplements at one point were contributing. It only stopped, when I convinced myself 100%, that it was a nocebo effect. What people don't realize is that psychogenic/placebo does not mean it's not real. It is a very real, authentic experience that just has a different mechanism. Convincing myself it was nocebo stopped drugs from making it worse, but that didn't fix it. I still have around the same level from before I convinced myself. Strange, no?

I like the idea of being susceptible to placebos though. To me, this indicates, that eventually, perhaps I can have direct effects on my mind that people who aren't susceptible might not be able to have! What seems like a weakness might very well be able to be developed into a strength. This is why I meditate.

Check out this documentary:


Those weren't the only nocebo effects I was having. I was getting increased spasm w/ vocalizations, to the point where I thought I had Tourette's for a while. I still have those spasm, but now it's only when I lay down. I also got increased social anxiety from about everything I took around this period. I knew it was nocebo when Green Tea Extract did that. It was scary, but empowering in the long run, as I knew it was something I could stop, and I did. For context, all of this happened around a nervous breakdown.

For perspective, at one point, for a year, I was convinced that 100% of my problems were psychogenic. This made me happy, as I felt I could 'fix crazy'. I got deeply depressed when I came across convincing evidence that it is probably biological.

A much more recent nocebo effect was CBD. The first 3-5 times I vaped it, it seemed to greatly increase my anxiety at rather small doses. But given its mechanism of action, I became pretty convinced it was nocebo. Once I convinced myself 100%, those effects disappeared, it seemed to help me a bit, and now I take 10x as much.

 

For me, placebo effects are good, it means there's nothing wrong with me, and if I sharpen my mind, perhaps I can take control! I invite you to consider that you are not permanently damaged. Sure, cocaine can change the brain after one or a few uses. But you have to take a mathematical approach to it: For how many people are those effects significant? What is the probability that the one time did this to me? And to reiterate, I'm not saying it's not real; this is often an implication when people take about psychogenic problems. It is 100% happening to you and you are experiencing it and going through it. All I'm saying is that the mechanism would be different, and this empowers you in the long run.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 06 May 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Metagene]

I really think you need to consider nocebo effects. This is not from a place of judgement, I have dealt with many myself, and it doesn't make one's mind weaker. Placebo effects seem to be strong in about 30% of the population, and there seems to be no personality aspects that predispose one to these effects. Not intelligence, willpower, stability, or anything. It seems to be randomly distributed in the population.

Let me tell you about my experiences. After 1 DXM trip, 3 weeks later I started to get bad HPPD (visual distortions). it seemed so strange that one trip, especially from a dissociative instead of a psychedelic, could cause this, but I accepted it. What kept happening though, was that, more and more, any drug I took, no matter the class, made my HPPD worse. Even supplements at one point were contributing. It only stopped, when I convinced myself 100%, that it was a nocebo effect. What people don't realize is that psychogenic/placebo does not mean it's not real. It is a very real, authentic experience that just has a different mechanism. Convincing myself it was nocebo stopped drugs from making it worse, but that didn't fix it. I still have around the same level from before I convinced myself. Strange, no?

I like the idea of being susceptible to placebos though. To me, this indicates, that eventually, perhaps I can have direct effects on my mind that people who aren't susceptible might not be able to have! What seems like a weakness might very well be able to be developed into a strength. This is why I meditate.

Check out this documentary:


Those weren't the only nocebo effects I was having. I was getting increased spasm w/ vocalizations, to the point where I thought I had Tourette's for a while. I still have those spasm, but now it's only when I lay down. I also got increased social anxiety from about everything I took around this period. I knew it was nocebo when Green Tea Extract did that. It was scary, but empowering in the long run, as I knew it was something I could stop, and I did. For context, all of this happened around a nervous breakdown.

For perspective, at one point, for a year, I was convinced that 100% of my problems were psychogenic. This made me happy, as I felt I could 'fix crazy'. I got deeply depressed when I came across convincing evidence that it is probably biological.

A much more recent nocebo effect was CBD. The first 3-5 times I vaped it, it seemed to greatly increase my anxiety at rather small doses. But given its mechanism of action, I became pretty convinced it was nocebo. Once I convinced myself 100%, those effects disappeared, it seemed to help me a bit, and now I take 10x as much.

For me, placebo effects are good, it means there's nothing wrong with me, and if I sharpen my mind, perhaps I can take control! I invite you to consider that you are not permanently damaged. Sure, cocaine can change the brain after one or a few uses. But you have to take a mathematical approach to it: For how many people are those effects significant? What is the probability that the one time did this to me? And to reiterate, I'm not saying it's not real; this is often an implication when people take about psychogenic problems. It is 100% happening to you and you are experiencing it and going through it. All I'm saying is that the mechanism would be different, and this empowers you in the long run.

None of this applicable to the issue at hand. Btw the answer to both of your questions is greater than zero.

[OneScrewLoose]

How can you be so sure that it's not applicable? It's very possible that there was damage, so it's greater than zero. However, on a simple statistical level in the population, it's very unlikely. Sure it has to happen to some people, but it doesn't happen to the vast majority. It could have happened to him, but it's more likely he's in the vast majority.

I'm just trying to give him an alternate perspective that empowers him. If he's broken, he's broken, that's it, and that's going to take a long, bit-by-bit approach. So, given that, there's no harm in trying another perspective for 3 months or so and so if it gives results.

Interesting study I just found:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23452061

 

So in some cases a single use can be beneficial. I know this is a pretty specific setup, but fascinating nonetheless.

Just found another one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15295029

Anyway, I found those looking for studies on behavioral changes from a single dose of cocaine. Not just chemical changes, as every drug is going to cause chemical changes, but behavioral changes measured by common tests like the PHQ-9. I can't find them but I'm open to seeing them. The reason it can't be just chemical is that what those chemical changes in each mind effect vary from person to person far too greatly. It's only extrapolation and conjecture to predict what they may be doing in this particular case if all we have are chemical studies, especially only in vitro studies.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 06 May 2015 - 08:18 PM.

[Metagene]

I would like to add my experience to this thread in the hope that somebody will have some sort of an answer.
I have been chatting with the creator of this thread who is going through persistent pain after a night of cocaine use. We both know what we are going through and as easy as it is to say its all psychological, its hard to believe such a conclusion because we were perfectly normal before our individual cocaine use event.
About six months ago, for the first time in my life, I snorted cocaine with work mates. We all work in a professional world, we weren't addicts and it was just recreational. For me it was the very first time. I snorted about 500mg over the course of 3 or 4 hours. I drank some iced green tea with it too, just so that my throat doesn't feel too dry when i was doing it. After my last line, my heart was racing, I could not sit still because my arms and legs felt very shaky. Then came nausea and the need to vomit (didn't vomit though). Then I thought i would pass out. I went outside and stood in the cold. I thought I overdosed and it took me about 2 hours to feel normal. The next morning I woke up with a very bad (and I do mean very very bad) headache. I thought my head was exploding. Quickly went to the doctors, got all blood work done, and got a CT scan done. Surprisingly but fortunately, everything was normal. The doctor mentioned that it was possibly withdrawal and I should wait it out.
Unfortunately, it continued for a month, then two months, without any improvement. The pain was pressure type, heaviness type, not so much throbbing type. Slowly, i started feeling it in my nose as well, pressure and unbearable tingling sensations in my nose - as if someones trying to take my nose off. Saw a neurologist, who ordered an MRI. It came back normal. Saw an ENT specialist, who put a camera up my nose, and said he doesn't see anything abnormal. Neurologist prescribed tricyclic antidepressants (for the head pain). They made me feel a whole lot worse because they knocked me out and i could not wake up. So i gave up on them after a week. Went back to him, and he said he doesn't have any more solutions.
It has been six months now. Yes the pain is about 20 to 30% better than what it was when it started. But the fact that its still there is worrying. Because of the pain (pressure heaviness in the head, and pressure and tinglings in my nose), i feel dizzy most of the times, and my surroundings seem a little shaky, which constantly worries me as I am unable to see or feel what it is like to be normal.
The pain leads to emotional symptoms, constant stress and worry and feeling detached (because its hard to go out when you have pain). But I don't believe its the emotional symptoms that cause it.
I am able to read, write and communicate normally. I do go to work which is a struggle when you have pain but Im trying to stay strong. I do feel dreamy because again its rarely that I would visualise surroundings like a normal person would because of the constant pressure/shakiness in the head and the nose.
I do not know if I have done permanent damage. It is debilitating and I would appreciate any sort of help.
I truly feel for the creator of this post. I am able to sympathise with him because although we may not have same/similar symptoms, we share the same cause.
Thank you

I would look beyond MRI's and CT scans:

Neurobiology of cocaine-induced organic brain impairment: contributions from functional neuroimaging.

"The residual cerebropathologic consequences of cocaine are seen only in significant or pronounced brain events when structural neuroimaging techniques such as computed tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) are employed. However, recent research with newer functional neuroimaging techniques such as single photon emission, positron emission tomography, and quantitative electroencephalography have revealed high rates of significant alteration in brain function among cocaine users, with negative structural imaging studies. These findings are often associated with impairment on neuropsychological evaluation, also in the absence of positive findings on CT and MRI. Both cerebral metabolic and hypoperfusion anomalies are seen, especially in anterior and temporal brain regions. Observed changes can persist for months, and for some patients, may represent a permanent change in brain functioning."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2856656/related

[mani16]

The brain impairment that link is talking about - would it cause the headpain/nasal pain I'm talking about.  My brain functioning seems to be normal.  I can read/write and communicate normally.  Its just that the pressure/pain causes dizziness/shakiness, which doesn't let me visualise things properly.

 

 

I would like to add my experience to this thread in the hope that somebody will have some sort of an answer.
I have been chatting with the creator of this thread who is going through persistent pain after a night of cocaine use. We both know what we are going through and as easy as it is to say its all psychological, its hard to believe such a conclusion because we were perfectly normal before our individual cocaine use event.
About six months ago, for the first time in my life, I snorted cocaine with work mates. We all work in a professional world, we weren't addicts and it was just recreational. For me it was the very first time. I snorted about 500mg over the course of 3 or 4 hours. I drank some iced green tea with it too, just so that my throat doesn't feel too dry when i was doing it. After my last line, my heart was racing, I could not sit still because my arms and legs felt very shaky. Then came nausea and the need to vomit (didn't vomit though). Then I thought i would pass out. I went outside and stood in the cold. I thought I overdosed and it took me about 2 hours to feel normal. The next morning I woke up with a very bad (and I do mean very very bad) headache. I thought my head was exploding. Quickly went to the doctors, got all blood work done, and got a CT scan done. Surprisingly but fortunately, everything was normal. The doctor mentioned that it was possibly withdrawal and I should wait it out.
Unfortunately, it continued for a month, then two months, without any improvement. The pain was pressure type, heaviness type, not so much throbbing type. Slowly, i started feeling it in my nose as well, pressure and unbearable tingling sensations in my nose - as if someones trying to take my nose off. Saw a neurologist, who ordered an MRI. It came back normal. Saw an ENT specialist, who put a camera up my nose, and said he doesn't see anything abnormal. Neurologist prescribed tricyclic antidepressants (for the head pain). They made me feel a whole lot worse because they knocked me out and i could not wake up. So i gave up on them after a week. Went back to him, and he said he doesn't have any more solutions.
It has been six months now. Yes the pain is about 20 to 30% better than what it was when it started. But the fact that its still there is worrying. Because of the pain (pressure heaviness in the head, and pressure and tinglings in my nose), i feel dizzy most of the times, and my surroundings seem a little shaky, which constantly worries me as I am unable to see or feel what it is like to be normal.
The pain leads to emotional symptoms, constant stress and worry and feeling detached (because its hard to go out when you have pain). But I don't believe its the emotional symptoms that cause it.
I am able to read, write and communicate normally. I do go to work which is a struggle when you have pain but Im trying to stay strong. I do feel dreamy because again its rarely that I would visualise surroundings like a normal person would because of the constant pressure/shakiness in the head and the nose.
I do not know if I have done permanent damage. It is debilitating and I would appreciate any sort of help.
I truly feel for the creator of this post. I am able to sympathise with him because although we may not have same/similar symptoms, we share the same cause.
Thank you

I would look beyond MRI's and CT scans:

Neurobiology of cocaine-induced organic brain impairment: contributions from functional neuroimaging.

"The residual cerebropathologic consequences of cocaine are seen only in significant or pronounced brain events when structural neuroimaging techniques such as computed tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) are employed. However, recent research with newer functional neuroimaging techniques such as single photon emission, positron emission tomography, and quantitative electroencephalography have revealed high rates of significant alteration in brain function among cocaine users, with negative structural imaging studies. These findings are often associated with impairment on neuropsychological evaluation, also in the absence of positive findings on CT and MRI. Both cerebral metabolic and hypoperfusion anomalies are seen, especially in anterior and temporal brain regions. Observed changes can persist for months, and for some patients, may represent a permanent change in brain functioning."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2856656/related

 

 

[OneScrewLoose]

That's an interesting study that I'd like to read. Usually, my university account gets me through 95% of paywalls, but this is falling in that 5%. It doesn't seem like a single site well let me have it, despite the university account. So I can't tell if it's acute or chronic use, and other important variables. :( If you have the full one, maybe you could totally not PM it me? Anyone from ResearchGate or Singer: she totally wouldn't do that.

[OneScrewLoose]

@mani: May I ask what you are taking right now, both supps and pharm?

[Metagene]

The brain impairment that link is talking about - would it cause the headpain/nasal pain I'm talking about.  My brain functioning seems to be normal.  I can read/write and communicate normally.  Its just that the pressure/pain causes dizziness/shakiness, which doesn't let me visualise things properly.
 

I would like to add my experience to this thread in the hope that somebody will have some sort of an answer.
I have been chatting with the creator of this thread who is going through persistent pain after a night of cocaine use. We both know what we are going through and as easy as it is to say its all psychological, its hard to believe such a conclusion because we were perfectly normal before our individual cocaine use event.
About six months ago, for the first time in my life, I snorted cocaine with work mates. We all work in a professional world, we weren't addicts and it was just recreational. For me it was the very first time. I snorted about 500mg over the course of 3 or 4 hours. I drank some iced green tea with it too, just so that my throat doesn't feel too dry when i was doing it. After my last line, my heart was racing, I could not sit still because my arms and legs felt very shaky. Then came nausea and the need to vomit (didn't vomit though). Then I thought i would pass out. I went outside and stood in the cold. I thought I overdosed and it took me about 2 hours to feel normal. The next morning I woke up with a very bad (and I do mean very very bad) headache. I thought my head was exploding. Quickly went to the doctors, got all blood work done, and got a CT scan done. Surprisingly but fortunately, everything was normal. The doctor mentioned that it was possibly withdrawal and I should wait it out.
Unfortunately, it continued for a month, then two months, without any improvement. The pain was pressure type, heaviness type, not so much throbbing type. Slowly, i started feeling it in my nose as well, pressure and unbearable tingling sensations in my nose - as if someones trying to take my nose off. Saw a neurologist, who ordered an MRI. It came back normal. Saw an ENT specialist, who put a camera up my nose, and said he doesn't see anything abnormal. Neurologist prescribed tricyclic antidepressants (for the head pain). They made me feel a whole lot worse because they knocked me out and i could not wake up. So i gave up on them after a week. Went back to him, and he said he doesn't have any more solutions.
It has been six months now. Yes the pain is about 20 to 30% better than what it was when it started. But the fact that its still there is worrying. Because of the pain (pressure heaviness in the head, and pressure and tinglings in my nose), i feel dizzy most of the times, and my surroundings seem a little shaky, which constantly worries me as I am unable to see or feel what it is like to be normal.
The pain leads to emotional symptoms, constant stress and worry and feeling detached (because its hard to go out when you have pain). But I don't believe its the emotional symptoms that cause it.
I am able to read, write and communicate normally. I do go to work which is a struggle when you have pain but Im trying to stay strong. I do feel dreamy because again its rarely that I would visualise surroundings like a normal person would because of the constant pressure/shakiness in the head and the nose.
I do not know if I have done permanent damage. It is debilitating and I would appreciate any sort of help.
I truly feel for the creator of this post. I am able to sympathise with him because although we may not have same/similar symptoms, we share the same cause.
Thank you

I would look beyond MRI's and CT scans:Neurobiology of cocaine-induced organic brain impairment: contributions from functional neuroimaging.
"The residual cerebropathologic consequences of cocaine are seen only in significant or pronounced brain events when structural neuroimaging techniques such as computed tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) are employed. However, recent research with newer functional neuroimaging techniques such as single photon emission, positron emission tomography, and quantitative electroencephalography have revealed high rates of significant alteration in brain function among cocaine users, with negative structural imaging studies. These findings are often associated with impairment on neuropsychological evaluation, also in the absence of positive findings on CT and MRI. Both cerebral metabolic and hypoperfusion anomalies are seen, especially in anterior and temporal brain regions. Observed changes can persist for months, and for some patients, may represent a permanent change in brain functioning."http://www.ncbi.nlm....2856656/related

 

I really don't know. Worst case scenario you simply rule out what isn't the cause.

 

That's an interesting study that I'd like to read. Usually, my university account gets me through 95% of paywalls, but this is falling in that 5%. It doesn't seem like a single site well let me have it, despite the university account. So I can't tell if it's acute or chronic use, and other important variables. :( If you have the full one, maybe you could totally not PM it me? Anyone from ResearchGate or Singer: she totally wouldn't do that.

Libgen works.

https://docs.google....sp=docslist_api

[Metagene]

Hey mani16.

The dizziness/shakiness you described, could it be a type of nystagmus accompanied by vertigo?

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Nystagmus

More useful imaging techniques: MR angiography and transcranial doppler.

https://books.google...cocaine&f=false

Read section 41.6.1 Arterial vasoconstriction.

https://books.google...cocaine&f=false

[Flex]

I really think you need to consider nocebo effects. This is not from a place of judgement, I have dealt with many myself, and it doesn't make one's mind weaker. Placebo effects seem to be strong in about 30% of the population, and there seems to be no personality aspects that predispose one to these effects. Not intelligence, willpower, stability, or anything. It seems to be randomly distributed in the population.

Let me tell you about my experiences. After 1 DXM trip, 3 weeks later I started to get bad HPPD (visual distortions). it seemed so strange that one trip, especially from a dissociative instead of a psychedelic, could cause this, but I accepted it. What kept happening though, was that, more and more, any drug I took, no matter the class, made my HPPD worse. Even supplements at one point were contributing. It only stopped, when I convinced myself 100%, that it was a nocebo effect. What people don't realize is that psychogenic/placebo does not mean it's not real. It is a very real, authentic experience that just has a different mechanism. Convincing myself it was nocebo stopped drugs from making it worse, but that didn't fix it. I still have around the same level from before I convinced myself. Strange, no?

I like the idea of being susceptible to placebos though. To me, this indicates, that eventually, perhaps I can have direct effects on my mind that people who aren't susceptible might not be able to have! What seems like a weakness might very well be able to be developed into a strength. This is why I meditate.
 

 

If it helps to solve partly the enigma behind:

I read somewhere that the behavior can affect epigenetics as well as vice versa

 

Psychotherapy as an epigenetic ‘drug’: psychiatric therapeutics target symptoms linked to malfunctioning brain circuits with psychotherapy as well as with drugs

http://www.beckinsti...brain-circuits/

 

Science reference:

Psychotherapy as an epigenetic ‘drug’: psychiatric therapeutics target symptoms linked to malfunctioning brain circuits with psychotherapy as well as with drugs

http://onlinelibrary...1301.x/abstract

[OneScrewLoose]

I read the study metagene. First of all, it seems to focus on chronic abuse, with damage from acute use related to brain damage instead of behavioral change:
 

 

Cocaine use, even in first-time users, can cause a wide variety of pathologies such as acute myocardial infarction, cardiac arrhythmias, intestinal ischemia, brain hemorrhage, ischemic stroke, cerebral vasculitis, and pulmonary and hepatic disease

 

The damage from single use seems to be focused on severe instances of brain damage, not functional changes in receptor function or behavior. The rest seems to be data of chronic use.

 

Unfortunately, with modern imaging techniques, brain imaging scans can only show us correlation, not causation. This has become the major crux of research in consciousness: So far our studies into the nature of consciousnes are only as deep as this. Since this is only correlation, it has no causative implications for the overarching nature of consciousness. That's why the bulk of consciousness discussion seems to be on a philosophical level (see John Searle, Daniel Dennette, Chalmers), each with their philosopher having their own idea, and an ego match.(less so with Searle). The neuroimaging studies have left us relatively dead in the water in progressing in our understanding of consciousness, since as the maxim goes, correlation does not equal causation.

 

In order to truly conclude that acute use of cocaine can cause behavior changes apart from psychosomatic ones, those behavior studies must be done, double-blind, and not extrapolated from other data.
 

If OP wants to explore the effects of DA, my thread here is a very simple and pretty safe starting point.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 07 May 2015 - 08:33 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

 

I really think you need to consider nocebo effects. This is not from a place of judgement, I have dealt with many myself, and it doesn't make one's mind weaker. Placebo effects seem to be strong in about 30% of the population, and there seems to be no personality aspects that predispose one to these effects. Not intelligence, willpower, stability, or anything. It seems to be randomly distributed in the population.

Let me tell you about my experiences. After 1 DXM trip, 3 weeks later I started to get bad HPPD (visual distortions). it seemed so strange that one trip, especially from a dissociative instead of a psychedelic, could cause this, but I accepted it. What kept happening though, was that, more and more, any drug I took, no matter the class, made my HPPD worse. Even supplements at one point were contributing. It only stopped, when I convinced myself 100%, that it was a nocebo effect. What people don't realize is that psychogenic/placebo does not mean it's not real. It is a very real, authentic experience that just has a different mechanism. Convincing myself it was nocebo stopped drugs from making it worse, but that didn't fix it. I still have around the same level from before I convinced myself. Strange, no?

I like the idea of being susceptible to placebos though. To me, this indicates, that eventually, perhaps I can have direct effects on my mind that people who aren't susceptible might not be able to have! What seems like a weakness might very well be able to be developed into a strength. This is why I meditate.
 

 

If it helps to solve partly the enigma behind:

I read somewhere that the behavior can affect epigenetics as well as vice versa

 

Psychotherapy as an epigenetic ‘drug’: psychiatric therapeutics target symptoms linked to malfunctioning brain circuits with psychotherapy as well as with drugs

http://www.beckinsti...brain-circuits/

 

Science reference:

Psychotherapy as an epigenetic ‘drug’: psychiatric therapeutics target symptoms linked to malfunctioning brain circuits with psychotherapy as well as with drugs

http://onlinelibrary...1301.x/abstract

 

People really need to understand this. What people are stuck in is dualism, where the mind and its chemistry, and our resulting perceptions, are separate entities.. In a monism approach, all states of though and the mind are simply a reflection of chemical states, and then feedback into perception in an unending loop. But everything we do effects these chemical states to different degrees: walking forward, what we eat, social health, exercise, meditation, simply talking or sleeping. Pharmacological substances is just another way of altering these chemical states that to me, is little different than all the above listed things, except for perhaps the speed in which they work.

I highly recommend the book "The Mystery of Consciousness" for a discussion on dualism, it's implications, and where we are in the study of consciousness.

[Metagene]

I read the study metagene. First of all, it seems to focus on chronic abuse, with damage from acute use related to brain damage instead of behavioral change:

Cocaine use, even in first-time users, can cause a wide variety of pathologies such as acute myocardial infarction, cardiac arrhythmias, intestinal ischemia, brain hemorrhage, ischemic stroke, cerebral vasculitis, and pulmonary and hepatic disease

The damage from single use seems to be focused on severe instances of brain damage, not functional changes in receptor function or behavior. The rest seems to be data of chronic use.

Unfortunately, with modern imaging techniques, brain imaging scans can only show us correlation, not causation. This has become the major crux of research in consciousness: So far our studies into the nature of consciousnes are only as deep as this. Since this is only correlation, it has no causative implications for the overarching nature of consciousness. That's why the bulk of consciousness discussion seems to be on a philosophical level (see John Searle, Daniel Dennette, Chalmers), each with their philosopher having their own idea, and an ego match.(less so with Searle). The neuroimaging studies have left us relatively dead in the water in progressing in our understanding of consciousness, since as the maxim goes, correlation does not equal causation.

In order to truly conclude that acute use of cocaine can cause behavior changes apart from psychosomatic ones, those behavior studies must be done, double-blind, and not extrapolated from other data.

If OP wants to explore the effects of DA, my thread here is a very simple and pretty safe starting point.

"Cocaine use, even in first-time users, can cause a wide variety of pathologies such as acute myocardial infarction, cardiac arrhythmias, intestinal ischemia, brain hemorrhage, ischemic stroke, cerebral vasculitis, and pulmonary and hepatic disease"

If this statement is true the study reaches a perfectly valid conclusion. Imaging techniques are simply diagnostic tools, a means to an end. Your argument serves little purpose from a practical standpoint.

[OneScrewLoose]

If any of these happened to him, his afflictions would be entirely different. That's my point.

[mani16]

@mani: May I ask what you are taking right now, both supps and pharm?

 

Not taking anything.  Don't really know what to take.

Hey mani16.

The dizziness/shakiness you described, could it be a type of nystagmus accompanied by vertigo?

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Nystagmus

More useful imaging techniques: MR angiography and transcranial doppler.

https://books.google...cocaine&f=false

Read section 41.6.1 Arterial vasoconstriction.

https://books.google...cocaine&f=false

 I have had a eye check.  It came back normal.

[OneScrewLoose]

If you're nervous about it, I would try what I mentioned. It can all be bought on Amazon.

[mani16]

If you're nervous about it, I would try what I mentioned. It can all be bought on Amazon.

 

what exactly did you suggest.  My concern mainly is pain.  Pain and pressure and tinglings in the forehead, temples, below the eyes, in the nose, and sometimes on the top and side of the head.

when pain increases, thats when i start to feel dizzy and then because I can't go out much, i feel detached.

[OneScrewLoose]

For starters I would take 100mg of 5-HTP at night (usually sold at this dose) with 500mg of EGCG (usually sold that that dose). Skip the L-Dopa for now. I have to think a bit in depth about other possibilities, let me get back to you soon. Do you think you could try that?

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 08 May 2015 - 07:14 AM.

[Metagene]

If any of these happened to him, his afflictions would be entirely different. That's my point.

It says "Cocaine use, even in first-time users, can cause a wide variety of pathologies such as...." not limited to. How does that exclude lesser forms of injury?

[Metagene]

 

@mani: May I ask what you are taking right now, both supps and pharm?

 

Not taking anything.  Don't really know what to take.

Hey mani16.

The dizziness/shakiness you described, could it be a type of nystagmus accompanied by vertigo?

http://en.m.wikipedi.../wiki/Nystagmus

More useful imaging techniques: MR angiography and transcranial doppler.

https://books.google...cocaine&f=false

Read section 41.6.1 Arterial vasoconstriction.

https://books.google...cocaine&f=false

 I have had a eye check.  It came back normal.

 

 

More ideas:

 

Atypical trigeminal neuralgia

 

"ATN pain can be described as heavy, aching, stabbing, and burning. Some sufferers have a constant migraine-like headache. Others may experience intense pain in one or in all three trigeminal nerve branches, affecting teeth, ears, sinuses, cheeks, forehead, upper and lower jaws, "behind" the eyes, and scalp. In addition, those with ATN may also experience the shocks or stabs found in type 1 TN."

 

http://en.wikipedia....minal_neuralgia

 

Cerebral vasculitis or Vasculitis 

 

Cerebral vasculitis or central nervous system vasculitis (sometimes the word angiitis is used instead of "vasculitis") is vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessel wall) involving the brain and occasionally the spinal cord. It affects all of the vessels: very small blood vessels (capillaries), medium-size blood vessels (arterioles and venules), or large blood vessels (arteries and veins). If blood flow in a vessel with vasculitis is reduced or stopped, the parts of the body that receive blood from that vessel begins to die. It may produce a wide range of neurological symptoms, such as headache, skin rashes, feeling very tired, joint pains, difficulty moving or coordinating part of the body, changes in sensation, and alterations in perception, thought or behavior, as well as the phenomena of a mass lesion in the brain leading to coma and herniation. Some of its signs and symptoms may resemble multiple sclerosis.[1] 10% have associated bleeding in the brain.[2]

 

http://en.wikipedia....bral_vasculitis

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Vasculitis

Edited by Metagene, 10 May 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[OneScrewLoose]

Yes, those things can happen. But what he's far more concerned with seems to be fog, reading comprehension and problem solving. I want to see the double-blind studies that show this as a result off a single use of cocaine. In a scientific context, that's not asking for much. Hell, it's the bare minimum.

[savagek]

Yes, those things can happen. But what he's far more concerned with seems to be fog, reading comprehension and problem solving. I want to see the double-blind studies that show this as a result off a single use of cocaine. In a scientific context, that's not asking for much. Hell, it's the bare minimum.

 

Well i did use xanax and alcohol in combination with the cocaine. Not to sure there would be a scientific study on all three together.

[OneScrewLoose]

Even together, it's extraordinarily unlike that permanently damaged wirings/neurons/receptors in your brain. What's likely is that it changed the focus in your brain towards certain wiring and its corresponding thought-processes. It will just take some time and effort to pull it back. But I promise you, what you had is fully attainable in a relatively short period of time, as long as you can let go other notion that you're broken.

[Metagene]

One use or a hundred uses, double blind studies will not change the fact cocaine abuse is very dangerous. I don't denie damaging effects in some cocaine users could be due to adulterants, individual susceptibility, underlying health conditions, a prior history of drug abuse, etc.

Edited by Metagene, 12 May 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[Flex]

 

Yes, those things can happen. But what he's far more concerned with seems to be fog, reading comprehension and problem solving. I want to see the double-blind studies that show this as a result off a single use of cocaine. In a scientific context, that's not asking for much. Hell, it's the bare minimum.

 

Well i did use xanax and alcohol in combination with the cocaine. Not to sure there would be a scientific study on all three together.

 

 

Have You tried something that increases or lowers GABA ?

dyhydromyrtecine or Thujone could decrease it but I´m not sure about the former

 

increase is easy: Alcohol or herbs like lemonbalm, centella asiatica, kava kava

 

I guess its somehow concerning to sugest something like this but it could be a lucky shot.

[Voku_Hila]

Brisk walk for about 45 mins, ride with your bike in nature or exercise daily if possible, this will grow new braincells and will clear your thinking. Drink enough water 1,5-2 litres, important for brain health. Eat healthy, lot of vegetables and avoid sugar. Get into the sun and nature. Start brain training. Learn complicated stuff. Do this for 2,3 months and you probably will be fine again.

 

[OneScrewLoose]

One use or a hundred uses, double blind studies will not change the fact cocaine abuse is very dangerous. I don't denie damaging effects in some cocaine users could be due to adulterants, individual susceptibility, underlying health conditions, a prior history of drug abuse, etc.

 

Of course it's dangerous. I'm not arguing that. What I am arguing against is permanent brain damage from a single use.

 

OP, how do you feel about starting with the EGCG and 5-HTP I mentioned?

[Flex]

 

One use or a hundred uses, double blind studies will not change the fact cocaine abuse is very dangerous. I don't denie damaging effects in some cocaine users could be due to adulterants, individual susceptibility, underlying health conditions, a prior history of drug abuse, etc.

 

Of course it's dangerous. I'm not arguing that. What I am arguing against is permanent brain damage from a single use.

 

OP, how do you feel about starting with the EGCG and 5-HTP I mentioned?

 

 

It might be possible solely because Cocaine and Amphetamine do increase the risk of a stroke within 24 hours.

A stroke or silent stroke could freely occur in this case.

and as mentioned before, cocaine causes a strong vasoconstriction that lasts longer than 45 min so some Brain cells do defineately die, though not so many i.e. no noticable brain damage.

Edited by Flex, 13 May 2015 - 02:53 PM.