21 replies to this topic

[NilsOlav]

I am taking an off-brand multivitamin/multimineral supplement, almost 100% similar to this brand in its contents. If you go to the "customer images" section on the right side of the page, you can see the exact amount of each vitamin/mineral and the exact form in the ingredients list. I for one do not want to excessively supplement myself with vitamins, so I take half a pill once every other day so that my body receives all these vitamins, but not in excess.

 

I read on here that certain forms of B6, such as pyridoxine hydrochloride, can actually be harmful, and that is the type of B6 that is in this supplement, though I'm not sure if its only harmful in large does...

[Mind]

Most people around here think that low dose multis are the best. If you have a good balanced diet, then you do not need much supplementation of the most common vitamins and minerals. 

[mikeinnaples]

Most multi's use too much of some ingredients and the wrong forms of others. In addition, they have a habit of throwing in random things in for marketing purposes that have no real value at such trace amounts.... but HEY its on the label!

[NilsOlav]

Thanks for the info guys...do you have any low-dose multivitamins to recommend? Ones that have the best form of niacin, B6, B12, etc, since I know certain forms are not as good as others (B12 as methylcobalamin is better than cyanocobalamin, etc.)

 

I found one that seems promising, but I'm not sure if the doses are too high. Here is a picture of the label (it's called Source Naturals Life Force Multiple, 180 Capsules on amazon)

 

 

 

Also considering this one, but I would just take 1 capsule a day:
 

http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B00B35A7YU/

Edited by NilsOlav, 02 February 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[niner]

Most males shouldn't supplement iron- they might have a version without it.  I'd prefer more iodine, and no NAC.  I find multis to be very frustrating.  It's really hard to have one size fit all. 

[NilsOlav]

Most males shouldn't supplement iron- they might have a version without it.  I'd prefer more iodine, and no NAC.  I find multis to be very frustrating.  It's really hard to have one size fit all. 

 

Hmm. Here's the label of the 2nd one I linked, which has more iodine and no NAC in it, how does this one look?

[Dorian Grey]

Thumbs-up to the second one...  Some of the trace mins seem a bit high.  

 

I think your idea of taking the single cap instead of the normal 2 cap dose is a great idea.  

 

I'll never know why most supplement formulations seem to mega-dose, but I don't like it.  More is not always better!  

[niner]

Normally I'd prefer no copper, but with all the zinc in the second one, I think I'd like about a milligram of copper.  I would worry about developing a copper deficiency with that much zinc.  That would of course depend on your diet.  If you get enough dietary copper, you'd be ok.  I'd rather see less selenium.  Maybe take a half dose of this one.

[NilsOlav]

Just found another promising one with the correct form of vitamin B12. What do you guys think of this one? I might go with it over the LEF brand since I like the added vegetable extracts and whatnot. Not sure if I can take it due to the amino acid content though--- I know not all amino acids are a problem with people who have acid reflux, but I've supplemented L-arginine before and it caused me a great deal of acid reflux.

 

http://www.vitacost....ron-180-tablets

Edited by NilsOlav, 05 February 2015 - 08:24 PM.

[mustardseed41]

I take this one  http://www.vitacost....min-60-capsules

[Wry]

In the past I took variations of the Source Naturals Life Force Multiple, but now I take NOW Foods Adam Superior Men's Multi. I find that taking the suggested two softgel capsules a day to be a little bit extreme concerning some of the ingredients, and the suggested dosage for the Life Force Multiple being more so. Many of the ingredients in multis have known adverse side effects in high doses, so I think in this case that less is more. Yet there remains the question of how well certain ingredients are absorbed when in the multi format, and if that justifies taking less or more.

[NilsOlav]

Hi guys, I just made a chart comparing NOW Foods Adam Superior Men's Multi with LEF's Two Per Day Capsules/Tablets. I did the math so that you can see the actual % in a single pill rather than 2 pills a day. The values in green are the values closer to 100%, since I believe that it's better to take the minimum suggested vitamin intake. I also marked higher content in green for the ingredients that don't have an established daily %, and I also listed the unique ingredients each one has at the bottom....of these two, which do you guys think looks best now?

 

 

I also highlighted the fact that LEF sells theirs in tablet form, which some people say is the best way to take a multivitamin to properly digest all its ingredients.

[Wry]

I also highlighted the fact that LEF sells theirs in tablet form, which some people say is the best way to take a multivitamin to properly digest all its ingredients.

 
The Now multi softgels are claimed to be easier to swallow, and are formulated for better GI tolerability and quick absorption. Yet some time ago ConsumerLab did a test on Multis and found that NOW multis take too long to disintegrate by their standards. This is the company's response:
 

"Hello, 
Here is some information to help you. 
Thank You, 
NOW FOODS 



Disintegration of tablets 
By Neil E. Levin, CCN, DANLA 

Every lot of each NOW formula that is made into tablet form is tested for proper disintegration to ensure that you get the full benefit of the ingredients. NOW has a QC (Quality Control) department with a physical testing lab that does disintegration tests on tablets. Our trained technicians measure disintegration of the tablet samples using USP method <2040> on accurately calibrated equipment. This is the accepted industry method. 

While the pharmacopeia disintegration test method is the accepted industry standard, its recommended times for disintegration are simply not appropriate or accepted for all dietary supplements. The pharmaceutical compendial standard for disintegration of vitamins and minerals is to allow no greater than 30 minutes for tablets and 45 minutes for capsules; which actually is counterintuitive, considering that capsules normally are believed to disintegrate more quickly than tablets. In fact, this difference is well-accepted by consumers. 

Furthermore, many dietary supplements are formulated to contain natural ingredients other than vitamins and minerals, with natural physical characteristics that can vary. Since food often lingers in the stomach for an hour or two during digestion and most vitamins are designed to be taken with meals, the 30 minute recommended standard based on a drug model is unnecessary and unrealistic for many natural products. There is no sound reason to apply this model to formulas containing ingredients other than isolated vitamins and minerals.

NOW has a specific specification for disintegration of each tableted product, typically 45 minutes. Capsules are typically tested to disintegrate within a 40 minute window, but some capsule materials (hard 2-piece gelatin, gelatin softgels, cellulose or polysaccharide Vcaps®) disintegrate within different timeframes that may be shorter. Of course, enteric coated and sustained release formulas will take longer to disintegrate, by design.

Advanced nutrient forms - such as coenzyme forms of vitamins or chelated minerals - may actually be degraded by excessive time in the acidic stomach. This may be a cause for concern if tablets disintegrate too quickly. 

NOW Foods sets its own standards for disintegration times based on manufacturing experience, product design and consumer acceptance. We are confident that every lot produced in our facility using independently audited Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) meets all of our critical specifications. 

For example, during 2005 and 2006 all 20 Adam Multivitamin tablet lots manufactured by NOW Foods passed our validated disintegration testing and met specifications for release. Disintegration times for this particular formula ranged between 20-40 minutes, with a maximum of 45 minutes allowed. Testing by an independent lab has confirmed that samples from one lot of Adam tablets disintegrated within 40 minutes, meeting NOW’s own specification.

You can be assured that the highly skilled Quality Control Technicians at NOW Foods continually monitor our production of tablets and test every lot for proper disintegration within our specified timeframes. This competence ensures that the contents of our tablets will be available because the tablet will deliver the active ingredients to your stomach.




REFERENCES: 

From the NIH Institute of Medicine (IOM) website: "The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for niacin for adults is 35 mg/day, which was based on flushing as the critical adverse effect."http://books.nap.edu....=6015&page=123 

2. Although nicotinamide appears not to be associated with flushing effects, a UL for nicotinic acid that is based on flushing is considered protective against potential adverse effects of nicotinamide.http://books.nap.edu....=6015&page=142

3. "Nicotinic acid is a safe, broad-spectrum lipid agent shown to prevent cardiovascular disease, yet its widespread use is limited by the prostaglandin D(2) (PGD(2)) mediated niacin flush...The PGD(2) secretion was dependent on the concentration of nicotinic acid and the time of exposure. Nicotinuric acid, but not nicotinamide, also induced PGD(2) secretion. Meyers CD, Liu P, Kamanna VS, Kashyap ML. Nicotinic acid induces secretion of prostaglandin D(2) in human macrophages: An in vitro model of the niacin flush. Atherosclerosis. 2006 Aug 29; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 16945375

4. Bolzano K, Krempler F, Haslauer F. [Treatment of various types of hyperlipoproteinaemia with a combination of Mg-chlorophenoxy-isobutyrate and mesoinositol-hexanicotinate (author's transl)]. Arzneimittelforschung. 1979;29(10):1621-4. German. PMID: 583231

5. The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) developed here applies to all forms of niacin added to foods or taken as supplements (e.g., immediate release, slow or sustained-release nicotinic acid, and niacinamide [nicotinamide]). Adverse effects such as nausea, vomiting, and signs and symptoms of liver toxicity have been observed at nicotinamide intakes of 3,000 mg/day (Rader et al., 1992) compared with intakes of nicotinic acid of 1,500 mg/day (McKenney et al., 1994). http://books.nap.edu....=6015&page=140

6. Meyers CD, Carr MC, Park S, Brunzell JD. Varying cost and free nicotinic acid content in over-the-counter niacin preparations for dyslipidemia. Ann Intern Med 2003;139:996–1002.

7. Stern RH, Spence JD, Freeman DJ, Parbtani A. Tolerance to nicotinic acid flushing. Clin Pharmacol Ther 1991;50:66–70.

8. Gray DR, Morgan T, Chretien SD, Kashyap ML. Efficacy and safety of controlled-release niacin in dyslipoproteinemic veterans. Ann Intern Med 1994;121:252–8.

9. Ring EFJ, Porto LO, Bacon PA. Quantitative thermal imaging to assess inositol nicotinate treatment for Raynaud's syndrome. J Int Med Res. 1981;9:393-400. 

10. O'Hara J, Jolly PN, Nicol CG. The therapeutic efficacy of inositol hexanicotinate (Hexopal®) in intermittent claudication: A controlled trial. Br J Clin Pract. 1988;42:377-383. 

11. Murphy R. The effect of inositol hexanicotinate (Hexopal) in patients with Raynaud's syndrome. Clin Trials J. 1985;22:521-529.

12. Kiff RS. Does inositol hexanicotinate (Hexopal) influence intermittent claudication? Br J Clin Pract. 1988;42:141-145. 

13. Head A. Treatment of intermittent claudication with inositol nicotinate. Practitioner. 1986;230:49-54. 

14. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1979 Aug;16(1):11-5. Nocturnal inhibition of lipolysis in man by nicotinic acid and derivatives. Kruse W, Kruse W, Raetzer H, Heuck CC, Oster P, Schellenberg B, Schlierf G. PMID: 499296 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 

15. Welsh AL, Ede M. Inositol hexanicotinate for improved nicotinic acid therapy. Int Record Med. 1961;174:9-15. 

16. Hammerl H, Kraenzyl CH, Sudlar M. Metabolic studies for determination of the action mechanism of a ß-sympathometic. Wein Klin Woschenschr. 1968;80:269. 

17. Sommer H. Nicotinic acid levels in the blood and fibrinolysis under the influence of the hexanicotinic ester of m-inositol. Arzneim Forsch. 1975;15:1337. 

18. Dorner VG, Fischer FW. The influence of m-inositol hexanicotinate ester on the serum lipids and lipoproteins. Arzneim Forsch. 1961;11:110-113. 

19. El-Eneim AMA, Hafez YS, Salem H, Abdel M. The role of nicotinic acid and inositol hexanicotinate as anticholesterolemic and antilipemic agents. Nutr Reports Int. 1983;28:899-911. 

20. Mercier J, Gavend MR, Dessaigne S. Effect of inositol and its derivatives on hypercholesterolemic rabbits. Cong Union Therap Intern (Brussels). 1963;8:11. 

21. Kruse W, Kruse W, Raetzer H, et al. Nocturnal inhibition of lipolysis in man by nicotinic acid and derivatives. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1979;16:11-15. 

22. Chromate: http://www.interheal...h/research.aspx 

23. Preuss HG, Grojec PL, Lieberman S and Anderson RA, Effects of Different Chromium Compounds on Blood Pressure and Lipid Peroxidation in Spontaneously Hypertensive Rats, Clinical Nephrology, 47:325-330, 1997

24. T. Yasmin, M.A., Shara, D. Bagchi, A. Kincaid, A. Limpach, R. Sandstrom, and M. Bagchi, Long-Term Safety Evaluation of a Novel Oxygen-Coordinated Niacin-bound Chromium (III) Complex, Annual Meeting of the American College of Nutrition, Reno, Nevada, Abs. 95, Pg. 465, Vol. 25, No. 5, October 5-8, 2006

25. M. Shara, T. Yasmin, A.E. Kincaid, A.L. Limpach, J. Bartz, K.A. Brenneman, A.Chatterjee, M. Bagchi, S.J. Stohs and D. Bagchi. Safety and toxicological evaluation of a novel niacin-bound chromium (III) complex. Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry 99: 2161-2183 (2005).

26. McCarty MF. Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy. Med Hypotheses. 2000 Sep;55(3):189-94. PMID: 10985907."

 

The response on their site comparing capsules and tablets:

 

The Tablet Vs. Capsules Controversy: Which Is Better?
By Allen Studzinski, NOW Quality Assurance Department, May 12, 2004Some people prefer their nutritional supplements in tablets, yet others prefer theirs in capsules. In this article, we will take a look at the technical differences between these two forms.

At NOW, we continually monitor tablet disintegration. This is important because a tablet that breaks down too slowly will fail to provide the specific nutrient to critical intestinal sites, decreasing absorption and potentially causing gastrointestinal upset. As such, we have strict specifications for tablet disintegration, testing every lot to assure that it meets industry specifications.

We also check tablet friability (chipping) and hardness (breaking strength) where necessary. Our mineral tablets, for example, unlike those from many other manufacturers, disintegrate in less than 45 minutes, as specified by the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP).

We test tablets for disintegration using specialized and standardized equipment. We typically use water or simulated stomach or intestinal fluids, where required. Vinegar (acetic acid) or any other arbitrary chemical is not an appropriate test medium.

NOW's Quality Control Department recently tested a tablet that disintegrated almost instantly when dropped into a glass of water. We are looking at newer technologies for improved tablet disintegration, because a tablet that disintegrates this fast in only water is not good. Reactivity with moisture in the air could cause tablet agglomeration or disintegration in the bottle and could potentially cause problems with swallowing.

Capsules are usually made from animal source gelatin or, if vegetarian, from starch hydrolysate or hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, a plant fiber derivative. At NOW, we strive to use the smallest capsule possible, minimizing the use of excipients.

Here is a brief summary of the relative characteristics of encapsulated and tableted supplements:

ADVANTAGES OF CAPSULES
Unique mixes and ingredients are possible
Sealed hard gelatin caps can be good oxygen barriers
Protection for sensitive ingredients
Shell normally breaks down/opens in 4 minutes
Reduced gastrointestinal irritation
Odorless, tasteless, easy to swallow
Oil and fat-soluble nutrient delivery

ADVANTAGES OF TABLETS
Well accepted, elegant
Custom size, shape, and appearance
Notching possible for dose splitting
Low cost
Low cost coatings for enteric delivery
Dissolution control for quick, delayed, or extended release

DISADANTAGES OF CAPSULES
Bulky materials can result in large capsule size
Can be susceptible to moisture
Ingredients can interact with capsule shell
More difficult to fill accurately
Costly
Capsule or lubricant allergies/sensitivities are possible
Softgel contents restricted to a tight pH range

DISADVANTAGES OF TABLETS
Excessive compaction, poor dissolution
Granulation technique can add heat/moisture to viable components
Customer concerns/self-testing of tablet dissolution
Problems with irritant compounds exacerbated by poor tableting
Coating sensitivities

Because capsules and tablets each have their merits, our customers can rest assured that the quality and research and development departments at NOW Foods are on top of the latest technologies that provide you with the highest quality in both delivery systems.

 

 

Edited by Wry, 06 February 2015 - 07:48 PM.

[NilsOlav]

Oh, I wasn't aware that NOW Adam multis are available in tablet form as well, just found it here:

 

http://www.amazon.co...ds adam tablets

 

So, 120 NOW Adam tablets are about $24, while 120 LEF tablets are $18. If you guys think it's worth $6 more for what NOW has to offer, I would go with that then. Just curious what you guys think of the content comparison in the chart I made.

Edited by NilsOlav, 06 February 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[kurdishfella]

multivitamin works better on healthy people

[JohnGioLuca]

What about Passion for Life liquid multivitamin?

[Mind]

I couldn't find "Passion for Life" products on Labdoor, but that is a good place to get honest testing and results for supplements and food products.

[Neurocryo]

I took a bottle of centrum before this most recent one a day for athletes.  Sometimes I felt nauseous when I started taking centrum.  I think they may have an optimized distribution of vitamins/minerals as they aren’t all at 100% DV.  Never know what kind of r and d big pharma did for these multis.

[Neurocryo]

Multivitamins worked great for me as I was able to quit being addicted to sugar. I went from craving sugary things to occasionally enjoying quality desserts w/o the desire to devour the entire cake by myself. I can't tell which microelement did this to me, but I started XXXXXXXXX CoQ10 /Red Yeast Rice /Omega-3 blend a few months ago and have not wanted any sugar since. I'll gladly read your theories if anyone can tell me what happened and why.

That’s interesting.  To separate the two variables you should take the multivitamin first for a month or so without the other supplement and report your experience.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 26 April 2024 - 04:05 PM.

[Gal220]

I prefer multiminerals instead, and build off that

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000T88CKI

 

d/k2

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B076DBV1MG

 

trace minerals

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B07JVTSW9C

 

time release B vitamins

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/B084HH913J

 

omegas + natural A from cod liver oil -Rosita or Virgin(best)

 

1:1 calc/mag/potassium(several brands)

 

Mixed vitamin E once or twice a week, more if you high dose omegas

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B0013OSI5G

 

 

 

You can read some brand guides in this thread, a few posts down are what many online nutritionist are taking

https://www.longecit...plement-brands/

 

Edited by Gal220, 28 April 2024 - 07:00 AM.

[adamh]

I think a multi is good since it gives you a little of everything. But its always going to be short on things like magnesium which we need a lot of. The last multi with the ingredients has 100mg of mg but its mg oxide which is the hardest to absorb. In fact I use mg oxide as a laxative. So you are getting very little mg and calcium is 12mg or 1%? Some of the ingredients are thousands of percent and some are almost nothing. I would recommend taking extra supplements if you are using this one.

 

The rda is not the goal, that is simply the amount that usually prevents deficiency diseases. To have optimum levels you need more but not super mega doses. I take about 50 things per day including herbal extracts like curcumin. Too much of anything is not good but a little of a lot of good things will add up. 

 

No one gets optimum levels of everything from diet even if they eat a good diet. A good diet is the best place to start. Taking a pill will not make up for eating junk food. A good diet and good supplements keep the doctor away

 

 

[Galaxyshock]

I consider multivitamin sort of an insurance to get all the essential nutrients. Ideally I would get them from diet but it's not always practical. I use cheap market multivitamin, but have thought about taking some more advanced one like Life-Extension brand's multi.

 

I also supplement some superfoods to support nutrition.