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What can I expect after stopping Piracetam use?


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#1 rednukleus

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 10:09 PM


I have a 700 g. jar of piracetam that I used for a few days short of 3 weeks, stopping a few days ago. My dose ranged from 900 mg/day to 4500 mg one day. I changed the dose up to get a feel for the effects. In a way they were positive. It took over a week for effects to kick in but I felt more aware and I guess I could say more immersed in the world. Some days it would have negative effects, and I would feel fuzzy and unable to pay attention in class at all. It also seemed to be counter-productive for studying because it makes me tired. I stopped taking it because I became depressed last week, and thought the piracetam might have something to do with it. I feel somewhat better now. I did not take a choline supplement, but I do eat chicken every day. Is that enough choline? I assume that perhaps the higher doses I was taking (around 2700 mg at once) were causing chemical imbalance in my nervous system.

Back to my question. Assume I start using Piracetam again, with a choline supplement this time. I pick some certain dose and keep it consistent. Let's say I use piracetam every day for a year, and then run out and stop using it. Won't I have bad withdrawl effects? I don't want to make myself any more scatterbrained than I am naturally.

Side note: I am 20 years old and have ADD, which I have never been medicated for. I bought piracetam for this reason. Positive results were inconsistent, but then again, so was my dosage. It seemed (this is just my impression people) that a dose of 900 mg gave no real effect. A dose of 1800 mg consistently reduced my ability to pay attention to my professor. A dose of 2700 mg gave mixed results, and eventually seemed to cause emotional problems for me.

#2 rednukleus

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 10:12 PM

Please answer my first question, which was about the side effects I will have after stopping piracetam use. However I have one more question. Was I even using piracetam long enough for the effects to start? Like I said I used it for 2 and a half weeks.

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#3 atp_none

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 10:14 AM

I've been using piracetam on and off for a while now (started in 2001) and have never experienced any withdrawl symptoms. I also have never read any mention of such symptoms in medical publications. For me, after quitting piracetam, the effects on memory retention and mental focus seem to last for a while, but eventually subside to baseline (i.e. your mental status before commencing piracetam use). I highly doubt it will leave you more scatterbrained than you were originally, although the transition might throw you off a little. I'm not thoroughly educated on the subject however, so all I can offer is advice from my own experience.

It's strange that you mention experiencing emotional problems while on piracetam, because I noticed the very same after a period of 2 months at a dose of 3gr. a day, but have never attributed that to the use of piracetam. I used to get unexplicable and severe 'flashes' of depression at random moments, so I decided to quit nootropics for a while after which these moments vanished. Still don't know what caused them exactly...

As for the period of use before you start noticing effects, I believe it was around 2 or 3 months. Using Alpha-GPC for a choline source instead of chicken, might give better results too;]

#4 magister

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 12:19 AM

Most literature suggests initializing a piracetam supplementation regime with a series of "attack" doses of 1600-2400mg 2 or even 3 times a day. Gradually subsiding over 3 or 4 days into a steady pattern of 800mg 2-3 times a day. Since the introduction of inexpensive bulk powder piractam I have come across more instances of what could be deemed "killer" doses, some even as high as 9 grams at once on avant labs....and on rec.drugs.smart a Creatine/Piracetam cocktail of 3g each was christened the Bababing mix last year. Personally I approach it for the long-run, much like a distance runner, pacing on smaller doses over longer periods of time. I tried the bababing and it doesn't work after the 2nd or 3rd day so you have to lay-off to feel the burst effect of cerebral activity.

Back in '94 at age 23 when I first began my investigations with piractam & liquid lechthin mix, back when you still had to order branded piracetam in pink-coated pills from european sources, I did 2 3-month courses in my final year of college, I too was concerned about "always" taking a pill. Generally the piracetam takes 1-2 weeks to sink in, for me it was a somewhat subtle difference which took some time to quantitatively or qualitatively "nail-down". The most prominent feature, again for me, was a distinct shift in my use of language. I could use it with more versatility, there was also seemingly spontaneous connections being made where ideas would just pop into my mouth which would make everyone burst out laughing or completely captivated, I could navigate sentance permutations and word choices while talking in realtime and even add almost rhythmic sycopation on top . I could also write better and think I was more creative on the whole. In some ways it is also good for enjoying life and having fun with people, not what many would expect from a nootropic. When I stopped 3 months later it was like if superman lost his special powers, there was a week where I noticed the lose of linguistic fluidity and having to think harder to put moderately complex sentance structures together without too many "ummms" and "ahhhs". About after a week I stopped noticing and things went back to how it was before piractam.

In the years since I have been here and there with it. Sometimes I could not make a pattern with it, or I was on a course of something else and was not sure of the interaction. The good thing was that I accomplished some major intellectual achievements without it, including teaching myself how to program computers. About a year and a half ago I got 700g of piracetam which is almost finished....when you start you do notice it but after awhile the effect do not seem so pronounced. I do take breaks, usually short minibreaks of 2 or 3 days where I come close to baseline, but sometimes I take 2 week breaks and just rest and vegetate so my brain activity is not so important.

You say you have ADD, which maybe it is just me but it seems like all the young people have that these days. When I go to ADD websites and read about what it actually is I get a case of cybercondria. Prehaps I had ADD, but just a mere 10 years ago people didn't do much about it, although some got ritalin, but it was usually cause their parents hauled them into a shrink cause they were caught smoking pot or something. Personally I quite happy to self-medicate with a daily prescription of a good racetam, instead of on some weird anti-depressive. Also get bioavailable choline, many go for AlphaGPC, personally I find it too much, but I am not very experienced with it.
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#5 rednukleus

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 04:56 AM

Thanks both of you. I will start up piracetam again (already have). Magister, my ADD is from recreational use of drugs in my senior year of high school. I used dextromethorphan and marijuana (which in my trashy town is commonly laced with some unknown chemical so that it causes hallucinations). I experience some permanent effects in the form of difficulty listening and recalling minute details of past events. I now do not partake in any recreational drugs or alcohol, but I hope piracetam may be a good choice to counteract the effects of the bad decisions I have made.

#6 xanadu

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 04:44 PM

Piracetam and some other noots are prescribed to treat brain injuries. I think you have an excellent chance of recovery. I think pir is a marvelous drug myself. I love all the effects though it tires me out after a while. I'm in the middle of a layoff period from it but will resume likely tomorrow. When I do, I'll go back to my 1.25gm per day dose. I noticed the effects of that within a couple days when I first tried it. I don't see the need for a huge starting dose myself. I have no plans to up the amount I take though I do plan to go on some centrophenoxine as well. Centro is also supposed to help heal brain injuries. Scientists told us for years that the brain didn't ever repair itself. Now they find they are wrong. Probably half the things we believe today are wrong.

#7 magister

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 11:59 PM

no sweat rednudleus I started smoking hash at 14 and didn't quit till I was nearly 29, during that time I experimented with every drug under the sun except for maybe PCP, unless there was some in the "chocolate buddha" weed I smoked in NYC in the late '80s.
I have done a few hundred LSD,mushroom,mescaline (plus analogues) trips (which didn't damage my brain so much as floss it, although some trips were a bit alienating depending on circumstances, some were gloriously integrating). I slipped up on speed a few times before I learned a lesson for good, and got a bit shifty with ketamine for awhile and got even got a bad with the binge alcohol drinking for awhile, this was probably the most damaging. I even tried RobotussinDM when things went "dry" in high school. Sometimes I don't listen well, but it is usually because I have some thoughts going on in my own head which are more interesting than the person talking. Sometimes it is better not to remember memories, it is all about being selective and then getting just the details you want to bring to mind. One thing to remember is how amazing the brain is, it can adapt and rewire, not at the rate of a baby, it is all about making the decision to really focus on improving Perhaps some of us have to go thru these hoops to come to the realization we want to go a different way, and regardless of all this damage we think we might have...the truth is we learned something. I feel I have gained a bit more than I lost we my drug use, and continue to improve this ratio with nootropic supplements now. Remember from the movie "Dune"...."Fear is the mind-killer"...don't worry about all damage you think you have, perhaps it is a byproduct of some antidrug propagada you came accross on TV. Actually I very rarely even think about the fact that I have done all these drugs in the past which may or may not have "damaged" me, as it is hard to tell unless we had a photographic memory before....I think god, how broad my experience and knowledge.

Anyhow Actyl-L-Carnitate is also good for past-drug use although I think more specifically for abusers of speed and cocaine, although I could be wrong. Its good for tons of things anyhow so that is what is really important. Take it with ALA aphla lipoic acid of right chalated with potassium

#8 zoolander

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 12:00 AM

Most nootropics may show affects at the start but I think in most situations they shift the baseline of mental function upwards towards higher levels. Friends of mine have taken nootropics and then tell me they aren't working anymore. I do not believe that this is so. They simply are not getting the stimulation effects or can not feel the marked changed from a normal level of functioning to higher levels of functioning. It is quite easy after a while to make the assumption that your supplements are not working anymore when your have reached a constant steady state of higher functioning.

#9 xanadu

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 12:59 AM

Does anyone think that improvements made while using pir, or any drug, would be permanent? Would there be measurable or subjective changes that don't all fade away? If it helps your health, that is a long lasting improvement isn't it? I don't think you go back to being unhealthy as if you hadn't taken the stuff all those years. Why would you lose all the mental improvement?

#10 zoolander

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 01:11 AM

Basically, piracetam, like most nootropics and supplements, protect and give benefit only whilst you are taking them. Of course there may be lingering changes from taking supplements but they are exactly that...supplements. They supplement a process that may be otherwise ineffective at what it does.

The long lasting effects and perhaps you could say permanent, would be when you make comparisons to someone of similar age. Whilst they age and undergo biological wear and tear in an unsupplemented/unprotected state you have preserve what you have.

In the case of piracetam i would say there are no permanent effect and that you will need to pretty much take it for the rest of your life to experiance the benefits. In the case of drugs and now with some supplements, we are seeing physiological changes occuring even at the molecular level. For example, creatine supplementation has been shown to increase the translocation of glut4 (glucose transporters) to the cell membrane and hence increase muscle glucose uptake. This is perhaps why some so called supplements are now becoming regulated and classified as drugs because they can stimulate changes that are above and beyond "normal" physiological changes.

#11 magister

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 01:19 AM

I think the knowledge you gain while on piracetam will stay with you but you will lose the effect and functioning. I once thought perhaps with the use of brain machines while in a floatation tank and perhaps with a small crystal of pure LSD some of the mechanisms could be imprinted but I am skeptical now.

#12 rednukleus

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 05:55 PM

Thanks Magister- that was really uplifting, you know?

Also, long live the psilocybe mushroom! I am worried that it may not be safe to eat those while I am a piracetam user. I don't have any reason to believe either way, except for the fact that you can't just predict how drugs will interact. However, I have had my fun and I'm ok with turning down psilocybes in the future.

One last thing. Consider joining The Shroomery forums. There are a bunch of interesting people to chat with. I go there more than any other site; my favorite forum is the philosophy one. www.shroomery.org

Edited by rednukleus, 19 August 2005 - 06:12 PM.


#13 rednukleus

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 06:01 PM

Xanadu said: "Does anyone think that improvements made while using pir, or any drug, would be permanent? Would there be measurable or subjective changes that don't all fade away? If it helps your health, that is a long lasting improvement isn't it? I don't think you go back to being unhealthy as if you hadn't taken the stuff all those years. Why would you lose all the mental improvement?"

Well Xanadu you could not lose "all" mental improvement. If your brain was enhanced by piracetam, and you expanded your knowledge or thinking skills as a result, these newly learned mental functions would be a part of you for life. Perhaps the artificial stimulation of the brain chemistry would be gone, but you would certainly be better off for the experience. Right?

#14 xanadu

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 10:43 PM

Red, that is more or less what I was thinking. I also suspect that it may have made some changes in brain circuitry. If nothing else, it may save you the decline you would have experienced during those years. Does anyone know where you can pick up a good deal on quantity of piracetam? I'd like to lay in a few kilos so I don't have to keep going out and looking for it.

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#15 lemon

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 11:39 PM

Piracetam should be consistantly taken over the long haul... it's researched uses are:

Age associated mental impairment management
Alzheimers disease management
Brain cell protection in trauma
Down's Syndrome management
Hemorrhagic stroke management
Neuroprotection
Stroke recovery management
Vertigo management

And for how very inexpensive it is... it's cheap medical insurance (some people are gonna be thankfull they've taken care of themselves in old-age as my employer, for example, just pulled our medical plan for retirees [thumb] )




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