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Best way to actually help create positive change in the LE movement?

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#1 Sanhar

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:44 PM


Given that now we're at forefront of the time when real life extension is becoming actually possible I'm trying to put together some concrete plans on how to move things along for the better.  Some of this may be obvious but at least to me I'd like a discussion on how to better cause positive change.  Clearly donations are good to the appropriate institutions but I have seen in many places people comment on how engaging in actions to cause social change are also very important.  Reasons I can think of for this are:

 

1.  People who think it should not happen and thereby try to block its advancement

2.  People who don't take it seriously and think it's a waste of time

3.  People who don't understand it and therefore can't relate to it

4.  People who have an economic interest in making it not happen

 

... and so forth.

 

My point being, getting people to come around to the worth of the LE movement seems vital at the moment as it would reduce all four above factors against the movement and that clearly seems desirable.

 

Now my question is, what are good ways to accomplish this?  What are effective ways of persuading people to work with the LE movement?  Some basic concepts I know of are as follows:

 

1.  Form groups and associations of like minded people to both keep them "in the loop" and by strength of numbers/conviction impress other people to also join (i.e. nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd) and hopefully turn the collective numbers into some collective effort

2.  Engage in positive advertising, especially advertising that addresses the reasons (obvious or not) that cause people to work against or passively ignore the LE movement in such a way that they stop or reduce their opposition

3.  Engage in political actions (lobbying, petitions, etc.) that cause underpinning governmental entities to be more cooperative to the LE movement in ways both subtle and overt

4.  Convince entrepreneurs of the financial validity of supporting the LE movement (i.e. they can make money in this)

 

I'd like to know people's thoughts on these things and to hear more.  I personally like to take action but I also like to plan ahead of time to ensure that said action is effective.  I'm very interested to know what other people are doing, too.  I know about the major organizations (SENS, Methuselah, LongeCity itself, etc) and am familiar with what they are doing and, imo, doing things in concert with them is best, but what would seem to be most effective?

 

Thoughts please, thanks.


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#2 niner

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 09:59 PM

Thanks for a thoughtful post.  I think that there are two problems with acceptance of LE by the general public.  The biggest is that they are scared of it, based mostly on misconceptions.  Education could help there, but a few of the reasons people fear it are legitimate.  One that I consider legitimate is a fear that it will cement old power structures and ideologies in place for a much longer time.  That might actually be a net positive in a world where change is too fast for humans to keep up.    The other thing that keeps people from taking it seriously is that most people consider it to be impossible.  This is changing as we have more and more examples in short-lived animals of the plasticity of lifespan, but public perception lags scientific reality by a great degree.  This is another place where education could help.  I think that we are only going to get so far with education, because it is a very emotional topic and our entire society is built around the idea that we all have finite lifespans due to aging.

 

Now that LE is going mainstream (Calico, Venter's company, etc) it looks like the tide is turning and we mostly just need to get the billionaires and governments on board with funding research.


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#3 Sanhar

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:53 AM

Thanks for a thoughtful post.  I think that there are two problems with acceptance of LE by the general public.  The biggest is that they are scared of it, based mostly on misconceptions.  Education could help there, but a few of the reasons people fear it are legitimate.  One that I consider legitimate is a fear that it will cement old power structures and ideologies in place for a much longer time.  That might actually be a net positive in a world where change is too fast for humans to keep up.    The other thing that keeps people from taking it seriously is that most people consider it to be impossible.  This is changing as we have more and more examples in short-lived animals of the plasticity of lifespan, but public perception lags scientific reality by a great degree.  This is another place where education could help.  I think that we are only going to get so far with education, because it is a very emotional topic and our entire society is built around the idea that we all have finite lifespans due to aging.

 

Now that LE is going mainstream (Calico, Venter's company, etc) it looks like the tide is turning and we mostly just need to get the billionaires and governments on board with funding research.

 

Ok, if I read you correctly you're saying that:

 

1. In terms of the general public, emotional considerations trump education per se in terms of how to make the best impact (i.e. it's not what they think but what they feel that is the major issue, although what they feel may be affecting what they think).

2. It's not so much the general public that needs convincing but the money-holders and governments.

 

Now, given that my goal is to figure out what I can do to help make some change, I would conclude that the following would help:

 

a. I should engage in some kind of activity that would sway the emotional position of the general public.  As I am a musician I am capable of writing music that could help in that regard.  I'm also a writer and have thought that something like a webcomic or similar work of creative fiction (not just a blog, there are several of those already) could have a similar effect.  My graphical skills are not up to par at this time but I could possibly find someone to help me with illustration.
b. While I don't know any billionaires nor ways to convince them, if I could find some kind of political angle that would be productive I could help with that.  I do not at this time however and would need further information or to conduct further research in that regard.

What do you think of these conclusions?  Correct track?  Would that help?

Secondly, are there any projects here that need help?
 



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#4 niner

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 01:40 AM

Yeah, that's about right.  A lot of the problems with getting people to accept LE stem from (inaccurately) presenting it as "immortality".  If it were presented as "your grandmother not getting Alzheimers" and "your mom not getting cancer".   That makes it sound a lot more like the conventional medicine that everyone supports (even though it's not "natural"...).   The idea of people never dying is something that a lot of people will find extremely disturbing.   Thus it would be better to make it clear that of course people would still die, just not as horribly and not as soon.  People will still die from aneurisms and embolisms and bad infections and getting run over by steam rollers.

 

I do think it's important for everyone to learn the basic facts, like that it's about staying young longer, not staying old longer.  A large number of people raise the resource consumption issue, so they'd need to learn about shrinking populations and sub-replacement birthrates in the industrialized world.  Eventually the population of humans on Earth will shrink, and that will probably happen before LE has much of an effect on population sizes.

 

I think ignorance and fear are the biggest problems.  Taking care of the ignorance will lessen the fear, but people are going to need reassurance that something bad won't result from LE research.


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#5 TheFountain

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:32 PM

I think we need an active youtube channel for one. 

 

Hold panel discussions. 

 

Tweet the shit out of society.

 

And perform all this with levity. 


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#6 Sanhar

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:49 PM

I think we need an active youtube channel for one. 

 

Hold panel discussions. 

 

Tweet the shit out of society.

 

And perform all this with levity. 

 

Okay.  Questions on that:

 

1.  What do you think we should be putting on the Youtube channel?

 

2.  Do you mean online panels or what exactly, and on what topics (current issues?).  Who are the panels aimed at, existing LE members or the general public?

 

3.  What kind of tweeting would work?  Tweets are short status messages meant to be updates.  Do you mean tweeting links to new published research or what exactly?

4.  Humor is good as long as people still take us seriously ;)



#7 TheFountain

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 07:09 PM

 

I think we need an active youtube channel for one. 

 

Hold panel discussions. 

 

Tweet the shit out of society.

 

And perform all this with levity. 

 

Okay.  Questions on that:

 

1.  What do you think we should be putting on the Youtube channel?

 

2.  Do you mean online panels or what exactly, and on what topics (current issues?).  Who are the panels aimed at, existing LE members or the general public?

 

3.  What kind of tweeting would work?  Tweets are short status messages meant to be updates.  Do you mean tweeting links to new published research or what exactly?

4.  Humor is good as long as people still take us seriously ;)

 

 

1-Everything from interviews with the leading voices in longevity science to basic educational videos to introduce people into the fold. 

 

2-The topics will all be interrelated to life extension of course! And what I mean is various members and guests could get together either in person or via skype/facetime and talk on pre-selected issues, such as why people are so fat, etc. 

 

3-Encouraging, positive sound bites that reassure people it's alright to wanna live. See we live in a society full of cynical, slow death types. We need to re-invigorate the "want to live" spark in this society. And that's where the philosophies come into play. Most people die slow because they are disenfranchised with the current societies philosophy of greed and excess. Not feeling like team players. 

 

4-I think we need a mascot. Like a longevity clown or something. Something that is child friendly too. Since children naturally have that spark of life in them and do not yet understand the concept of limited life. I think it's children who will ultimately open the older people up to the feeling that it's alright to wanna live forever. 


Edited by TheFountain, 03 February 2015 - 07:14 PM.


#8 Sanhar

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 09:50 PM

 

1-Everything from interviews with the leading voices in longevity science to basic educational videos to introduce people into the fold. 

 

2-The topics will all be interrelated to life extension of course! And what I mean is various members and guests could get together either in person or via skype/facetime and talk on pre-selected issues, such as why people are so fat, etc. 

 

3-Encouraging, positive sound bites that reassure people it's alright to wanna live. See we live in a society full of cynical, slow death types. We need to re-invigorate the "want to live" spark in this society. And that's where the philosophies come into play. Most people die slow because they are disenfranchised with the current societies philosophy of greed and excess. Not feeling like team players. 

 

4-I think we need a mascot. Like a longevity clown or something. Something that is child friendly too. Since children naturally have that spark of life in them and do not yet understand the concept of limited life. I think it's children who will ultimately open the older people up to the feeling that it's alright to wanna live forever. 

 

 

 

Ok.  In order:

 

a.  The educational videos idea under #1 sounds like something that would have a lot of return for relatively little investment ahead of time (just prepare the videos with slides and a monologue and *boom* there you go).  I might be able to do something about that given that I have sound recording equipment and public speaking experience (I do MC work among other things).  I can also do basic video editing.

b.  Interviews sounds good.  I presume LongeCity has the pull to get interviews done with the leaders in the field.  Of course, there has to be a topic or topics appropriate to perform interviewing on at this time.  I have no real idea at this time what topics are currently extant that would qualify.  Who would need to deal with this?

c.  Live panels such as that would *definitely* need to have heavy promoting and organization ahead of time or few to no-one would attend.  I see this as a good idea once we collect a body of people who want to know.  Someone would need to take the lead in organizing both the panels and the promoting ahead of time and they'd need to be both knowledgeable and already respected to accomplish that.

d.  Tweeting sounds good, there'd need to be a hook to get people into it.  This could actually work well in the short term, but someone would need to take charge of this who is good at making such tweet material (although they may have people backing them up in the idea department).
 

e.  Mascot is good.  We should probably have a round table discussion on what motifs or icons would be appropriate for that.  If the concept works for McDonald's it will work for us.



#9 TheFountain

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 12:05 AM

 

 

1-Everything from interviews with the leading voices in longevity science to basic educational videos to introduce people into the fold. 

 

2-The topics will all be interrelated to life extension of course! And what I mean is various members and guests could get together either in person or via skype/facetime and talk on pre-selected issues, such as why people are so fat, etc. 

 

3-Encouraging, positive sound bites that reassure people it's alright to wanna live. See we live in a society full of cynical, slow death types. We need to re-invigorate the "want to live" spark in this society. And that's where the philosophies come into play. Most people die slow because they are disenfranchised with the current societies philosophy of greed and excess. Not feeling like team players. 

 

4-I think we need a mascot. Like a longevity clown or something. Something that is child friendly too. Since children naturally have that spark of life in them and do not yet understand the concept of limited life. I think it's children who will ultimately open the older people up to the feeling that it's alright to wanna live forever. 

 

 

 

Ok.  In order:

 

a.  The educational videos idea under #1 sounds like something that would have a lot of return for relatively little investment ahead of time (just prepare the videos with slides and a monologue and *boom* there you go).  I might be able to do something about that given that I have sound recording equipment and public speaking experience (I do MC work among other things).  I can also do basic video editing.

b.  Interviews sounds good.  I presume LongeCity has the pull to get interviews done with the leaders in the field.  Of course, there has to be a topic or topics appropriate to perform interviewing on at this time.  I have no real idea at this time what topics are currently extant that would qualify.  Who would need to deal with this?

c.  Live panels such as that would *definitely* need to have heavy promoting and organization ahead of time or few to no-one would attend.  I see this as a good idea once we collect a body of people who want to know.  Someone would need to take the lead in organizing both the panels and the promoting ahead of time and they'd need to be both knowledgeable and already respected to accomplish that.

d.  Tweeting sounds good, there'd need to be a hook to get people into it.  This could actually work well in the short term, but someone would need to take charge of this who is good at making such tweet material (although they may have people backing them up in the idea department).
 

e.  Mascot is good.  We should probably have a round table discussion on what motifs or icons would be appropriate for that.  If the concept works for McDonald's it will work for us.

 

 

A-The educational videos should consist of a few full motion videos. They have to look sophisticated man. And they have to be shot in full HD. We don't want to come off as a hole in the wall fringe movement with 240k videos. 

 

B-The moderators could moderate. We need them to be connected to the site of course. 

 

C-I think we're kinda over complicating the organizational aspect. All it really needs to be is "hey bro, let's call our other Bro's and do this" and they everything else will grow a new limb every week. 

 

D-Just like the website, there should be a few moderators for the tweets. 

 

E-We can call our Mascot Mr. Telomere. And when children feed him bad foods he gets shorter, when they feed him good food he gets taller. 



#10 Multivitz

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 09:52 AM

Doomed for failure? Whats this talk of population reduction? People won't like you calling it shrinking resource use. I thought there was enough for everyone? Who told you this, I have never seen anyone have no food, except when we refuse to share. Mr Telomere don't care. What about Mr Biofields, no ignore him, I don't have a clue about him, some jumped up crazy thing someone has proved but no one seems to care because they are all so desperate to get accepted by the crowd and are scared of being rejected by the ignorant aggressive opinion steerers that want more illusionary money. Its the subtle forces that ,if given out as true, get accepted. You know the butterfly effect, it's the strongest force at the end of the day. If we stopped the idiots going around with industrial poison that minght be a start. The worlds yearly supply of energy waste in a football pitch sized hole is a real possibility with Thorium. 'You're different to me so I'm going to be selfish' how immature, how under developed. Ignore religion or understand its purpose and reasons. Breaking away from Saturn's orbit was hard, can we reconise the resentful ones that are really at the helm of humanity and need to let go of the unrightly hold over righteousness. Thats how it is from my perspective, you live n learn when the right side has a good amount of magnesium to bridge with the left! Until then you won't see the wood for the trees. A Youtube channel would work if the tags were engineered with life knowledge.
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#11 Sanhar

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 01:43 PM

Right well it took me just over three weeks but I have something to show for my efforts.  My first LE video is done!

 

No, it doesn't involve HD video but I figure something is better than nothing and I'm actually pretty happy with how it turned out.  Do take a look, see link below:

 

p.s. was the last post meant for another thread?



#12 Karl909

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:18 PM

I recently wrote to my mp (member of parliament) and mep (members of European Parliament). Didn't get anything from my mp but did get some encouraging responses from my meps, esspially the green one, which you can see here: http://www.longecity...-writing-to-mp/

In the UK we have this website: https://www.writetothem.comwhich makes it incredibly easy to write to your mp, councillors and meps. Everyone from the uk should give it a go considering how easy it is, really nothing to lose for such little effort. i have always got a response when writing to them.

I would imagine other countries have the same sort of thing or at the least an easy way to write to your political represenatives
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#13 Sanhar

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 03:56 AM

Final version of my first LE 101 video is at the link below:



#14 niner

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 12:47 PM

Final version of my first LE 101 video is at the link below:

 

Wow Sanhar, that's awesome!  You did a great job on that!


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#15 Karl909

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 12:50 PM

Got a good response today from one of the MEPs for south west of England, which stated:

 

The Chancellor has previously announced funding of £600 million to invest in "eight great technologies" in which Britain can become world leaders. This included regenerative medicine. This demonstrates how government can bring together industry with academia and research to deliver world class technologies.

This link from Research Councils UK explains a little bit more:

http://www.rcuk.ac.u...ineTimeline.pdf

 

Anyone know much about this?


Edited by Karl909, 27 February 2015 - 12:51 PM.


#16 Sanhar

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 07:12 PM

I made another edit, hopefully the last one, here's the final final version :)

 



#17 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 07:30 PM

Nice idea, won't work.

 

Over 90% of the people, who haven't been thinking for life extension will not watch it until the end.

 

Those, who doesn't like the idea, will not watch it at all.

 

The rest will understand, that there are such things like life extension, and people, who want to live longer, and that will be it. They will not even move their finger for developing the technologies for immortality. In the best case they will simply sit and start waiting for the life extension and the immortality to come to them, as the majority of the lazy crowd does.

 

An effective movie has to be a movie, that to make the people DO something.


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#18 Sanhar

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 02:45 AM

Nice idea, won't work.

 

Over 90% of the people, who haven't been thinking for life extension will not watch it until the end.

 

Those, who doesn't like the idea, will not watch it at all.

 

The rest will understand, that there are such things like life extension, and people, who want to live longer, and that will be it. They will not even move their finger for developing the technologies for immortality. In the best case they will simply sit and start waiting for the life extension and the immortality to come to them, as the majority of the lazy crowd does.

 

An effective movie has to be a movie, that to make the people DO something.

 

Actually it will work because I am specifically targeting the 10% of people who care.  That's how social networking/marketing is effective.  You reach who wants to listen and then they in turn will inform people who are more likely to listen.  Repeated attempts over time "soften" the apathetic and resistant masses.

You are underestimating the power of this, but perhaps you will see what I mean as I build this.  This is only one of my first steps, not by far my last.
 


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#19 Karl909

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 01:37 PM

i don't know how apposed to it people are really, some obviously and maybe if you start talking about more transhumanism stuff you will probably freak people out perhaps. But recently I've been in many situations when it's not been me that's started the conversation, others have brought up they have heard things along the lines that 'people will be living to 150 soon' and all of that. In the British science museum there's a sign in the genetics bit saying 'will you be the first human to live to 1000'. 

 

I think there are perhaps two barriers in people getting behind life extension, firstly going from what we have now to what is suggested. Which is understandable, in all honesty like most people here, I'd have thought, I have no idea really the validity of this stuff or whether it will work, even people in the know I doubt can really say for sure. But I certainly would like it explored and for research to be done on it as if it can be done it would stop so much suffering.

 

Also I think people have, for some things, a good ability to block out the future as they'd really rather not think about it. Look at the way most people save for retirement now... They don't, why so many old people live in poverty, well one of the reasons...


Edited by Karl909, 28 February 2015 - 01:40 PM.

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#20 Sanhar

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 06:56 PM

i don't know how apposed to it people are really, some obviously and maybe if you start talking about more transhumanism stuff you will probably freak people out perhaps. But recently I've been in many situations when it's not been me that's started the conversation, others have brought up they have heard things along the lines that 'people will be living to 150 soon' and all of that. In the British science museum there's a sign in the genetics bit saying 'will you be the first human to live to 1000'. 

 

I think there are perhaps two barriers in people getting behind life extension, firstly going from what we have now to what is suggested. Which is understandable, in all honesty like most people here, I'd have thought, I have no idea really the validity of this stuff or whether it will work, even people in the know I doubt can really say for sure. But I certainly would like it explored and for research to be done on it as if it can be done it would stop so much suffering.

 

Also I think people have, for some things, a good ability to block out the future as they'd really rather not think about it. Look at the way most people save for retirement now... They don't, why so many old people live in poverty, well one of the reasons...

 

You're pretty much spot on.  The main point of where we're at is that we don't have proof yet and the average person will not plan for the future based on projections.  Thing being, we are looking at the state of science and we're pretty sure we see where this is going - for us it's not if, but when.  If the average person was willing to realize that as we have they would feel differently about it, proof or not.

We hear people saying "oh yeah we could live to 120 or so" because they like the idea.  Given more proof of concept, which I am quite sure will be stacking up over the short term, you will see more talk and thereby more action.  Any trickle will start to turn into a stream and so forth.

I only finally become seriously involved in the LE movement about three months ago and joined LC about a month ago despite having passively followed it for at least fifteen years.  Why?  I realized it was time.  My personal efforts will help some others (increasingly) see the same.

This isn't just hoping anymore - it's coming and 120 looks like a real start.


Edited by Sanhar, 28 February 2015 - 06:57 PM.


#21 Mind

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:32 PM

As to the point made earlier about convincing the money-holders to invest, that is the best strategy I can see going forward in the near term (this is the conclusion of many people who have been advocating for many years have come too as well). 1 or 2 billionaires investing in SENS, Methuselah, LongeCity Fundraisers, etc... would do more good more quickly than convincing a larger portion of the general population.



#22 Antonio2014

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:18 PM

Nice idea, won't work.

 

Over 90% of the people, who haven't been thinking for life extension will not watch it until the end.

 

Those, who doesn't like the idea, will not watch it at all.

 

The rest will understand, that there are such things like life extension, and people, who want to live longer, and that will be it. They will not even move their finger for developing the technologies for immortality. In the best case they will simply sit and start waiting for the life extension and the immortality to come to them, as the majority of the lazy crowd does.

 

An effective movie has to be a movie, that to make the people DO something.

 

I sometimes try to post about LE in other blogs/forums I participate in. I obtained a reply only one time, but it was entusiastic. It was in a space-related blog (someone said he will not see a mission to Titan in his lifetime, and I posted a link to a SENS video; he was very interested). Maybe we should focus on the right people (people from science, programming, and similar communities). For example, it seems to me that many people interested in cryonics come from the IT/computing world.
 


Edited by Antonio2014, 05 March 2015 - 11:23 PM.

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#23 Sanhar

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 03:27 AM

As to the point made earlier about convincing the money-holders to invest, that is the best strategy I can see going forward in the near term (this is the conclusion of many people who have been advocating for many years have come too as well). 1 or 2 billionaires investing in SENS, Methuselah, LongeCity Fundraisers, etc... would do more good more quickly than convincing a larger portion of the general population.

 

An important point here is that it isn't an either-or proposition.  To get a billionaire involved you have to be able to reach him/her and convince him of the merit of the program.  To convince the public (properly) involves a wide-angle campaign to find who's interested, recruit them to the cause and then have them slowly affect those around them.  It might in fact be the case that one way to get a billionaire involved is for them to see that more of the public is interested and that they can somehow make money off that interest.  After all, they become billionaires from business...

 

A greater question though is how otherwise do you even get a billionaire involved?  I read somewhere that they're waiting for their money to be more valuable, ostensibly via newer technology making research more productive.  If so I'm not sure where the breakpoint is but I do see tech causing this quite quickly over time.  If we could get a virtual physiological human (or at least get organ-on-a-chip widespread and effective) it would really help us in that regard.  LE research currently takes too long because you have to wait for things to get old.


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#24 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:17 AM

 

Nice idea, won't work.

 

Over 90% of the people, who haven't been thinking for life extension will not watch it until the end.

 

Those, who doesn't like the idea, will not watch it at all.

 

The rest will understand, that there are such things like life extension, and people, who want to live longer, and that will be it. They will not even move their finger for developing the technologies for immortality. In the best case they will simply sit and start waiting for the life extension and the immortality to come to them, as the majority of the lazy crowd does.

 

An effective movie has to be a movie, that to make the people DO something.

 

I sometimes try to post about LE in other blogs/forums I participate in. I obtained a reply only one time, but it was entusiastic. It was in a space-related blog (someone said he will not see a mission to Titan in his lifetime, and I posted a link to a SENS video; he was very interested). Maybe we should focus on the right people (people from science, programming, and similar communities). For example, it seems to me that many people interested in cryonics come from the IT/computing world.
 

 

 

This is very crucial, according to me. To get more people from science involved.
The big question, that we have to answer is how?
 



#25 niner

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 03:33 PM

I think that we're now seeing the tide turn.  When you're dealing with something that is baked into the human psyche as deeply as death by aging, the turn will take a long time.  Look at this recent Newsweek Magazine cover story.  It is about LE and the billionaires who are starting to back it.  It's a quite good article.  This is the point at which the general public will start paying attention and could be "flipped" to "our side", and Sanhar's great video is just the sort of thing that we need.   There are already some billionaires on board, but they are mostly funding conventional drug discovery pathways.  Only Peter Thiel is funding SENS afaik.



#26 Mind

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:32 PM

IMO, there is no "tide" to be turned (with a general audience) - but don't mistake me for being negative about prospects for our mission. The tide that we will see turn is getting most of the innate LE advocates on board. People who innately accept LE as a "good" thing is a tiny fraction of the entire human population, and so far we have only reached a small fraction of those people. All we have to do is connect with the remaining advocates who are unaware of what is possible, or are in regions of the world where the meme has not penetrated. If we focus on the true advocates and provide them with the proper tools and funding, that will help more than casting a wide net. The vast majority of the general population will just come along for the ride, kind-of oblivious, like usual.


Edited by Mind, 06 March 2015 - 07:33 PM.


#27 Sanhar

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:46 PM

IMO, there is no "tide" to be turned (with a general audience) - but don't mistake me for being negative about prospects for our mission. The tide that we will see turn is getting most of the innate LE advocates on board. People who innately accept LE as a "good" thing is a tiny fraction of the entire human population, and so far we have only reached a small fraction of those people. All we have to do is connect with the remaining advocates who are unaware of what is possible, or are in regions of the world where the meme has not penetrated. If we focus on the true advocates and provide them with the proper tools and funding, that will help more than casting a wide net. The vast majority of the general population will just come along for the ride, kind-of oblivious, like usual.

 

This is exactly what I do.  Find the ones who already care and connect them.  It would be enough.

 

Your last sentence reflects the remainder of what I do, which is to say to get everyone else to tolerate what the advocates are doing.  I guess that shouldn't be underestimated in importance either.


Edited by Sanhar, 06 March 2015 - 07:46 PM.


#28 2525

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 03:30 PM

 "your grandmother not getting Alzheimers" and "your mom not getting cancer".   That makes it sound a lot more like the conventional medicine that everyone supports (even though it's not "natural"...).  

 

I think also very important is for us to not procrastinate and leave changes for "later".

 

Since I was little child, I knew that this is what I must dedicate my life to... to end the

evilness of involuntary chronic diseases and involuntary death.

 

But I let pass so many years without actively researching, and this is what I must have done

all of the time. To find the others who think like us, that we can find solutions to have a

life without diseases, without pain and without death.

 

So many people just blind themselves into entertainment music and funny videos

and some corporation office job every day,

and they try to never think what they will be in 200 years from now.

 

This is the question that we can ask others: "Would you like to be alive in 2200 ?"

 

I think every sane, non suicidal person will respond an enthusiastic "Yes!"



#29 Sanhar

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:25 PM

I agree.  Don't feel bad that you didn't do much up until now however because until a few years ago there really wasn't any direction or capability in the concept.  The time truly is *now*.

 

That's why people like me (and you) have activated to make a difference.  I've been studying and practicing 8 or more hours a day recently upgrading my graphic design skills so that I can use those talents to assist the movement - there's a decided lack of progress on the social front and that's where my skills lie.

 

In terms of why people aren't moving with this, are you familiar with the concept of the "death trance"?  Basically it's the result of people convincing themselves over the hundreds and thousands of years we've been around that death is inevitable, and specifically, death by aging is inevitable.  This was useful when it actually WAS inevitable as a coping mechanism but that's no longer necessarily the case.

 

People need to be brought around to the fact that it isn't inevitable - I feel we've established that this is true even if we haven;t figured out how to make it happen yet.  Yet most people are not particularly science-minded nor do they have very large attention spans for this (they're busy, why would they?) so they need assistance gettting "the message" in a consumable and believable format.  That's where I come in.

 

If they do indeed get the message they will turn their support to us because, as you say, they don't want to die.  They also, however, don't want to be sick, infirm, and incapacitated when alive so this has to be made clear as part of the package.  People are also as concerned about the welfare of their loved ones as they are about themselves - or more, hence this is a very important selling point.  This particular point leads to an internal problem in the life extension movement: it is by and large still oriented to extending life at the end stage by slowing aging slightly.  This is not useful as an overall goal because at most it will extend life by a decade or two, not more.  True life extension requires REJUVENATION, a return to youth.  It cannot be understated how much of a problem this is right now; the LE market is set to grow by billions of dollars and the vast majority of it is headed in the wrong direction AND it is less appealing to the public than the real solution (rejuvenation) would be.

 

How do you fix this?  You ensure people know about rejuvenation and ensure that they demand it.  You ensure that businesses and governments hear them so the path is made clear.  You also do it very firmly with great dedication because there are people - powerful people - who have an interest in the direction staying the way it is because they've invested money in that way as is.  If things change at least some of that money will go nowhere so you need to be ready to oppose them hanging on to it, or ideally help them to convert it to what is actually needed (rejuvenation).

 

If this sounds like a massive, major issue, it is.  All the science in the world will mean nothing if it isn't implemented to the proper end and it won't get the funding it needs in the first place if that proper end is not what the public wants.  What we have on our side is that we're right - rejuvenation is the solution, so if we push people will come around to it, but how quickly and effectively that happens depends on our efforts and our lives may literally depend on it.

 

p.s. many people think that the situation will right itself and that we don't need to do any of this.  Even if this is true, which I dispute, it is virtually a certainty that our efforts will make things right sooner.  I am 41 years old and I suspect as things stand that I may be 80 or older by the time indefinite lifespan is achieved and that depends on things like quantum or at least highly advanced optical computer setups being the norm by then.  If I am correct then many of the people on these forums will either be dead or in cryo hoping to be revived by that point.  I consider this an unacceptable solution and will not let it be, hence I work to speed things up.

 

 

 "your grandmother not getting Alzheimers" and "your mom not getting cancer".   That makes it sound a lot more like the conventional medicine that everyone supports (even though it's not "natural"...).  

 

I think also very important is for us to not procrastinate and leave changes for "later".

 

Since I was little child, I knew that this is what I must dedicate my life to... to end the

evilness of involuntary chronic diseases and involuntary death.

 

But I let pass so many years without actively researching, and this is what I must have done

all of the time. To find the others who think like us, that we can find solutions to have a

life without diseases, without pain and without death.

 

So many people just blind themselves into entertainment music and funny videos

and some corporation office job every day,

and they try to never think what they will be in 200 years from now.

 

This is the question that we can ask others: "Would you like to be alive in 2200 ?"

 

I think every sane, non suicidal person will respond an enthusiastic "Yes!"

 

 


Edited by Sanhar, 29 March 2015 - 09:31 PM.

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#30 2525

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 11:02 AM

 

If they do indeed get the message they will turn their support to us because, as you say, they don't want to die.  They also, however, don't want to be sick, infirm, and incapacitated when alive so this has to be made clear as part of the package.  People are also as concerned about the welfare of their loved ones as they are about themselves - or more, hence this is a very important selling point.  This particular point leads to an internal problem in the life extension movement: it is by and large still oriented to extending life at the end stage by slowing aging slightly.  This is not useful as an overall goal because at most it will extend life by a decade or two, not more.  True life extension requires REJUVENATION, a return to youth.  It cannot be understated how much of a problem this is right now; the LE market is set to grow by billions of dollars and the vast majority of it is headed in the wrong direction AND it is less appealing to the public than the real solution (rejuvenation) would be.

 

How do you fix this?  You ensure people know about rejuvenation and ensure that they demand it.  You ensure that businesses and governments hear them so the path is made clear.  You also do it very firmly with great dedication because there are people - powerful people - who have an interest in the direction staying the way it is because they've invested money in that way as is.  If things change at least some of that money will go nowhere so you need to be ready to oppose them hanging on to it, or ideally help them to convert it to what is actually needed (rejuvenation).

 

If this sounds like a massive, major issue, it is.  All the science in the world will mean nothing if it isn't implemented to the proper end and it won't get the funding it needs in the first place if that proper end is not what the public wants.  What we have on our side is that we're right - rejuvenation is the solution, so if we push people will come around to it, but how quickly and effectively that happens depends on our efforts and our lives may literally depend on it.

 

p.s. many people think that the situation will right itself and that we don't need to do any of this.  Even if this is true, which I dispute, it is virtually a certainty that our efforts will make things right sooner.  I am 41 years old and I suspect as things stand that I may be 80 or older by the time indefinite lifespan is achieved and that depends on things like quantum or at least highly advanced optical computer setups being the norm by then.  If I am correct then many of the people on these forums will either be dead or in cryo hoping to be revived by that point.  I consider this an unacceptable solution and will not let it be, hence I work to speed things up.

 

 

 "your grandmother not getting Alzheimers" and "your mom not getting cancer".   That makes it sound a lot more like the conventional medicine that everyone supports (even though it's not "natural"...).  

 

I think also very important is for us to not procrastinate and leave changes for "later".

 

Since I was little child, I knew that this is what I must dedicate my life to... to end the

evilness of involuntary chronic diseases and involuntary death.

 

But I let pass so many years without actively researching, and this is what I must have done

all of the time. To find the others who think like us, that we can find solutions to have a

life without diseases, without pain and without death.

 

So many people just blind themselves into entertainment music and funny videos

and some corporation office job every day,

and they try to never think what they will be in 200 years from now.

 

This is the question that we can ask others: "Would you like to be alive in 2200 ?"

 

I think every sane, non suicidal person will respond an enthusiastic "Yes!"

 

 

 

Thank you Sanhar for your thoughts.

 

The opportunities:

 

- if each of us would bring every week, in a kind, interesting, catchy way, more of the people

that feel the same like us, our reach will grow exponentially.

 

there are very many people that feel that death is completely wrong, that death

takes away fully all you have ever achieved and learned, and it does it in an irreversible

way, without a second chance. that death is like an eternal sleep without feelings,

emotions or dreams, and that is truely the most terrifying thing ever

 

- a majority of people waste their lives and their money spending in casinos,

fast food restaurants,cheap entertainment (computer games)or on prostitution.

 

If people reallocate their financial resources into combating and putting an end

to involuntary death, then  they can enjoy everything else for a very long time

(as long as they wish to).

 

 

The challenges that we must fight against:

 

- procrastination

 

- waiting for others to do it (this is probably the worst, because it means that you

only let your life and you being alive in the hands of others who

maybe do not care about you)

 

- so many people see deaths everyday in newspapers, that they become numb or

indifferent to death







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