31 replies to this topic

[resveratrol_guy]

I've noticed countless times over the years that eating a lot of nuts (especially cashews, almonds, and pecans, but less so macadamias) causes severe short term memory loss for the next few days after cessation. I made the catastrophic mistake of buying cashews on sale last week, which even Lumosity confirmed turned me into a slobbering moron for a few days. Fortunately, the episode has passed.

 

Yes, I do realize that this is heretical, because nuts are "good" paleo foods with healthy saturated fat and lots of selenium, which contribute nothing to blood sugar levels. But even plain unroasted unoiled unsalted nuts have this effect on me. Coconut is neutral. And remember, peanuts are beans, not nuts (and I avoid them on account of the aflatoxin issue).

 

I can't imagine what the mechanism could possibly be, except to say that we clearly did not evolve to eat copious amounts of nuts, considering the extreme physical difficulty of acquiring and opening them. In principle, they might be throwing me into ketosis, and my brain happens to work poorly without sugar. But I think it's deeper than that, because other fat sources (cheese, butter, olive oil, coconut oil, etc.) don't have this detrimental effect on me.

 

I thought I should bring this up because I doubt I'm the only person who has observed this, and most likely some of you health "nuts" are suffering the same effects without realizing it. They could be detracting in some huge way from many of you who, for otherwise good reason, are trying to follow ketogenic diets.

 

Suspects: manganese, magnesium, polyunsaturated fats, alpha linoleic acid, not sure what else...

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 07 February 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[ceridwen]

I haven't noticed that myself but my Dr told me that people with the HSV virus should not eat nuts and seeds but I used to get that way on sunflower oil or rapeseed oil not on nuts. Mind you there might well be a reason why nuts are called nuts. Unless that has set up a psychological reaction of course.

[resveratrol_guy]

Rapeseed oil is rumored to be rather carcinogenic. But to your point, maybe it's the PUFA.

[airplanepeanuts]

I eat nuts almost every day, memory is fine.

[Mind]

I eat nuts fairly regularly. Never notice anything like what you describe.

[StevesPetRat]

Maybe you're allergic... wait... does this thread give anyone else déjà vu? I swear there was a very similar thread several months back.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 08 February 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Nuts are one food which many people have varying degrees of allergy to...this sounds like a minor allergic reaction.

 

oops Steve beat me to it.....

Edited by Hebbeh, 08 February 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Thanks for the input, y'all. Now I'm only all the more perplexed. Could an allergic reaction cause memory issues? I have actually noticed that my throat closes a bit if I binge on walnuts, but I don't believe I have such a response to the other problematic nuts.

 

If this was discussed in another thread, please link here for everyone's benefit. Granted, I could be rare case, but it seems unlikely. BTW I see the effect starting around 200 g of nuts on a single day.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 February 2015 - 05:49 PM.

[airplanepeanuts]

200 g that is quite a lot of nuts.

 

I don't think it should be an allergy it it's caused by all kinds of nuts. Aren't allergies more specific than that?

Edited by airplanepeanuts, 08 February 2015 - 06:00 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

200 g that is quite a lot of nuts.

 

I don't think it should be an allergy it it's caused by all kinds of nuts. Aren't allergies more specific than that?

 

Yeah I tend to agree that it's not an allergic issue, pending contrary evidence. It happens with different nuts, some with skins on, some not. Another possibility is that they cause sleep problems due to elevated sleep temperature, because all the carbs are "slow" and come out at night. But then, they don't seem to make me all that tired. Manganese would certainly do the trick (manganism is actually a brain disease), but I think the effect would persist. So maybe we're back to acute effects of PUFA.

 

200 g is probably half of my max intake on any given day, so yes, it's significant (and an expensive addiction).

 

[nowayout]

My nuts have a tendency to block all higher mental functions. 

Edited by nowayout, 09 February 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[StevesPetRat]

I doubt it's manganese. Blueberries have a lot more than nuts do and my memory has done nothing but improve since I started eating them.
I ate about 100g of macademias a day over the past three days and had a lot of trouble recalling terms like... wait, I can't remember what I can't remember... oh yeah, "pellagra" and "beri-beri", subjects which I've studied extensively for a year. I also couldn't stop scarfing them down, which seems to happen paradoxically to a lot of people who have adverse reactions to foods. Thinking back, I always binged on cashews, almonds, and pistachios when they were available, though I don't recall any memory impairment (though HOW WOULD I?!!?!). Interestingly, I can easily eat just a couple Brazil nuts or walnuts and do not seem to binge on them.

So either there's something to this, or I'm highly suggestible. Or both!

[resveratrol_guy]

I doubt it's manganese. Blueberries have a lot more than nuts do and my memory has done nothing but improve since I started eating them.
I ate about 100g of macademias a day over the past three days and had a lot of trouble recalling terms like... wait, I can't remember what I can't remember... oh yeah, "pellagra" and "beri-beri", subjects which I've studied extensively for a year. I also couldn't stop scarfing them down, which seems to happen paradoxically to a lot of people who have adverse reactions to foods. Thinking back, I always binged on cashews, almonds, and pistachios when they were available, though I don't recall any memory impairment (though HOW WOULD I?!!?!). Interestingly, I can easily eat just a couple Brazil nuts or walnuts and do not seem to binge on them.

So either there's something to this, or I'm highly suggestible. Or both!

 

Good point, blueberries noticably imrpove my memory as well.

 

Were they raw mac nuts, or coated with oil, salt, or whatever? I can't say I'm sure about it, but I don't think the problem happens to me with macadamias. But I'm 100% sure it happens with cashews, almonds, pecans, and walnuts (in 200g plus quantities per day) within at most 3 days. And be advised that brazils reportedly contain elevated amounts of radium, which would be ionically consistent with their affinity for selenium (but perhaps this is just rumor, as my own geiger tests never registered noticeably above background).

 

Anyone else care to attempt a binge, especially on the unsalted unoiled variety, and report back? Just be careful of eating too many nuts! Nut rage can land you in prison, even if your daddy is rich and powerful.

[StevesPetRat]

Were they raw mac nuts, or coated with oil, salt, or whatever? I can't say I'm sure about it, but I don't think the problem happens to me with macadamias.

Dry roasted with sea salt.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

Were they raw mac nuts, or coated with oil, salt, or whatever? I can't say I'm sure about it, but I don't think the problem happens to me with macadamias.

Dry roasted with sea salt.

 

 

Then it could be acute acrylamide toxicity, PUFA, temporary memory loss related to elevated blood pressure, etc. We need to test raw shelled nuts.

 

Still it underscores the point that there are potentially other acute hazards to nut consumption that have nothing to do with the raw food itself.

[truboy]

Can relate to the OP on almonds.

Here are couple more interesting 'anecodes':

Almonds make my hearing better?

When I eat almonds my hearing becomes distinctly clearer and noticeably better. I thought that it may have been the magnesium in it so I bought some magnesium citrate powder, but it does not seem to be doing much for my hearing. My question is, which mineral or vitamin do you think is making my hearing better? Obviously this question is geared more toward people who have knowledge of this kind of thing. When I stop eating almonds my hearing goes back to being worse again, which is weird. Almonds also reduce my tinnitus a great deal, too.

Can a person get high on almonds

Around 4pm I ate the first thing I've eaten today, about 3oz of almonds. Around 430 I started to get nauseated, which I attributed to motion sickness as I was in a car. Then things got really weird. I started feeling like I was guaranteed to die, I got cold chills, I had a minor out of body experience and I felt like I was almost able to communicate with the dead. I also felt a mixture of pure peace and euphoria along with my terror over my feeling of impending death. This started around 430 and ended at about 630.

 

I don't think it's specific mineral dependant though.

It's more likely cause of food group and the way your body responds to it.

 

After being on strict no grain / no dairy / no nuts / no legumes diet one can easily track the response to specific food groups, and how well body tolerate them

For example for me:

Grains - bood sugar rollecoster and resulting energy/mood swings

Legumes - emotional and a bit hyper

Dairy - moody + tired

Nuts(almonds in my case, don't like others) - made me anxious, and not good in making even slightest challenging decision

 

It's interesting to track how body responds to food, but the only way to do it is firstly to find your optimal baseline - the food/diet that make you more or less stable and good.

[resveratrol_guy]

Can relate to the OP on almonds.

Here are couple more interesting 'anecodes':

Almonds make my hearing better?

When I eat almonds my hearing becomes distinctly clearer and noticeably better. I thought that it may have been the magnesium in it so I bought some magnesium citrate powder, but it does not seem to be doing much for my hearing. My question is, which mineral or vitamin do you think is making my hearing better? Obviously this question is geared more toward people who have knowledge of this kind of thing. When I stop eating almonds my hearing goes back to being worse again, which is weird. Almonds also reduce my tinnitus a great deal, too.

Can a person get high on almonds

Around 4pm I ate the first thing I've eaten today, about 3oz of almonds. Around 430 I started to get nauseated, which I attributed to motion sickness as I was in a car. Then things got really weird. I started feeling like I was guaranteed to die, I got cold chills, I had a minor out of body experience and I felt like I was almost able to communicate with the dead. I also felt a mixture of pure peace and euphoria along with my terror over my feeling of impending death. This started around 430 and ended at about 630.

 

I don't think it's specific mineral dependant though.

It's more likely cause of food group and the way your body responds to it.

 

After being on strict no grain / no dairy / no nuts / no legumes diet one can easily track the response to specific food groups, and how well body tolerate them

For example for me:

Grains - bood sugar rollecoster and resulting energy/mood swings

Legumes - emotional and a bit hyper

Dairy - moody + tired

Nuts(almonds in my case, don't like others) - made me anxious, and not good in making even slightest challenging decision

 

It's interesting to track how body responds to food, but the only way to do it is firstly to find your optimal baseline - the food/diet that make you more or less stable and good.

 

I take your point at face value that we basically have to give up eating anything the slightest bit appetizing in the name of maximimizing healthspan, let alone lifespan. Most everything "extra" is just an experiment that's doomed to end in disappointment.

 

I assume the case reports are not from you personally, so as to your comment that almonds impair your judgment -- why? Is this an issue with memory, reasoning, or what? They definitely impair my judgment: I always decide to eat more almonds.

 

I think some of the weird experiences may be related to the skins, which obviously receive more environmental exposure (e.g. mold spores, bacteria, etc.) during development than the meat, and therefore are more diverse in their composition.

 

Anyway some data here would be useful. I think nuts have historically been maligned due to their high saturated fat content (bad science) then upheld as ideal foods due to their low glycemic index. I'm not challenging the latter, but that doesn't mean that they can't be evil in subtle ways that are not immediately obvious, nut allergies being one such way, although I fail to see the connection between histamine aggravation and memory impediment. My going theory is that their slow-release carbs explode during sleep, raising body temperature and thereby lowering sleep quality, resulting in the memory effect, but this is just my best guess based on experience, and likely not the most important issue.

[Gerrans]

I eat unsalted nuts every day--not 200g, though--and, if anything, I feel they perk me up. They certainly seem to do me no harm.

 

I disagree that we were never supposed to eat many nuts. After all, we descend from the apes who ate them in the trees. Early man would not have found them difficult to open. I think of them as a primeval food--one that remains very similar to its wild state (you can pick hazelnuts along the riverbank near here). I have read that Brazil nuts are very close to wild in their manner of growth, as you cannot interfere with their environment too much, for example by transplanting them to other parts of the world than the ones they like to grow in. So I feel that when I am eating nuts I am eating one of the more natural foods around.

 

But very little disagrees with me, so I may not be typical.

[truboy]

 

Can relate to the OP on almonds.

Here are couple more interesting 'anecodes':

Almonds make my hearing better?

When I eat almonds my hearing becomes distinctly clearer and noticeably better. I thought that it may have been the magnesium in it so I bought some magnesium citrate powder, but it does not seem to be doing much for my hearing. My question is, which mineral or vitamin do you think is making my hearing better? Obviously this question is geared more toward people who have knowledge of this kind of thing. When I stop eating almonds my hearing goes back to being worse again, which is weird. Almonds also reduce my tinnitus a great deal, too.

Can a person get high on almonds

Around 4pm I ate the first thing I've eaten today, about 3oz of almonds. Around 430 I started to get nauseated, which I attributed to motion sickness as I was in a car. Then things got really weird. I started feeling like I was guaranteed to die, I got cold chills, I had a minor out of body experience and I felt like I was almost able to communicate with the dead. I also felt a mixture of pure peace and euphoria along with my terror over my feeling of impending death. This started around 430 and ended at about 630.

 

I don't think it's specific mineral dependant though.

It's more likely cause of food group and the way your body responds to it.

 

After being on strict no grain / no dairy / no nuts / no legumes diet one can easily track the response to specific food groups, and how well body tolerate them

For example for me:

Grains - bood sugar rollecoster and resulting energy/mood swings

Legumes - emotional and a bit hyper

Dairy - moody + tired

Nuts(almonds in my case, don't like others) - made me anxious, and not good in making even slightest challenging decision

 

It's interesting to track how body responds to food, but the only way to do it is firstly to find your optimal baseline - the food/diet that make you more or less stable and good.

 

I take your point at face value that we basically have to give up eating anything the slightest bit appetizing in the name of maximimizing healthspan, let alone lifespan. Most everything "extra" is just an experiment that's doomed to end in disappointment.

 

I assume the case reports are not from you personally, so as to your comment that almonds impair your judgment -- why? Is this an issue with memory, reasoning, or what? They definitely impair my judgment: I always decide to eat more almonds.

 

I think some of the weird experiences may be related to the skins, which obviously receive more environmental exposure (e.g. mold spores, bacteria, etc.) during development than the meat, and therefore are more diverse in their composition.

 

Anyway some data here would be useful. I think nuts have historically been maligned due to their high saturated fat content (bad science) then upheld as ideal foods due to their low glycemic index. I'm not challenging the latter, but that doesn't mean that they can't be evil in subtle ways that are not immediately obvious, nut allergies being one such way, although I fail to see the connection between histamine aggravation and memory impediment. My going theory is that their slow-release carbs explode during sleep, raising body temperature and thereby lowering sleep quality, resulting in the memory effect, but this is just my best guess based on experience, and likely not the most important issue.

 

 

i don't try to dig and investigate 'why'.

I just test and see what works/feels best for me.

 

Don't think it's about 'slow releasing carbs'... Almonds are pretty allergenic - google 'allergic to almonds' - lot's of people don't tolerate them well,

and allergy can have very different ways of presenting itself (loss of memory in your case)

 

And why it impair judgement - in my case it become TOO anxious about outcome, which makes decision making difficult/not effective.

[resveratrol_guy]

Update: Thanks to APBT's post about macadamias (raw, shelled, unsalted, un-anythinged), I now strongly suspect manganese. StevesPetRat pointed out above that "I doubt it's manganese. Blueberries have a lot more than nuts do and my memory has done nothing but improve since I started eating them." While may be true for some nuts, macadamias contain an order of magnitude more per unit of mass than blueberries. I don't see any other macadamia ingredient that stands out. Furthermore, manganese in nuts might be lipidated, unlike manganese in fruits and veggies, thereby permitting enhanced transport across the BBB. Once in the brain, presumably, it behaves like other heavy metal ions, for instance, by way of nucleating amyloid and tau plaques. Perhaps the short term memory decline is due to the associated spike in inflammation, which dissipates after several days.

 

Macadamias appear to be otherwise unremarkable in their content, being little more than a source of noninsulinemic energy. So while I may well be mistaken, I can't even hypothesize what else it would be. I've even ruled out funny chemicals in the skin, because they had none.

 

But... but... they're natural! Yeah, but have you ever tried to gather and shell enough to stuff your face to satiety? I really don't think we evolved to deal with such intake levels, even transiently.

 

Here's what a binge did to my memory scores on Lumosity, before recovering several days later (and which I realized only after the after the decline had occurred):

 

Attached Files

•  memory.png   18.78KB   1 downloads

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 August 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[Duchykins]

Maybe manganese.  I was also going to say I wouldn't think it's slow-releasing carbs since green veggies have are chock full of them and I literally eat handfuls and bowlfuls of spinach (only spinach, not a salad, I crave them like chips).  Spinach makes me happy all day long, broccoli, carrot, and cucumber too.  Lots of the plant foods.

 

I avoid almonds because they seem to increase the likelihood of triggering a migraine, and eat peanut butter and apricot jam sandwiches frequently, but I have a huge weakness for cashews and pistachios.

 

But I go a long time between having any of them.  Like a few months.  Then I'll be passing the trail mix section and see a can of unsalted whole cashews, and grab it,  I go home and have a small binge on some cashews, and they make me retarded for hours and I felt like an ton of bricks fell on me.  Once I noticed the pattern, I stopped eating them, but still get the cravings every once in a while, and I know it's not a good idea to resist cravings for foods that are real food (not junk food).... so I've been experimenting to see where the tipping point is, you know?  I haven't figured it out yet, but soon.

 

I originally assumed it was because my body does not appreciate getting slammed with protein (same thing happened when I ate a whole steak - first and last time I did that)  that's just hypothesis that needs some work.  I wonder if it's not just one thing in the nuts that's bugging us

 

 

Rhm I typed the second half of that post after ambien kicked in, sorry

[resveratrol_guy]

Maybe manganese.  I was also going to say I wouldn't think it's slow-releasing carbs since green veggies have are chock full of them and I literally eat handfuls and bowlfuls of spinach (only spinach, not a salad, I crave them like chips).  Spinach makes me happy all day long, broccoli, carrot, and cucumber too.  Lots of the plant foods.

 

I avoid almonds because they seem to increase the likelihood of triggering a migraine, and eat peanut butter and apricot jam sandwiches frequently, but I have a huge weakness for cashews and pistachios.

 

But I go a long time between having any of them.  Like a few months.  Then I'll be passing the trail mix section and see a can of unsalted whole cashews, and grab it,  I go home and have a small binge on some cashews, and they make me retarded for hours and I felt like an ton of bricks fell on me.  Once I noticed the pattern, I stopped eating them, but still get the cravings every once in a while, and I know it's not a good idea to resist cravings for foods that are real food (not junk food).... so I've been experimenting to see where the tipping point is, you know?  I haven't figured it out yet, but soon.

 

I originally assumed it was because my body does not appreciate getting slammed with protein (same thing happened when I ate a whole steak - first and last time I did that)  that's just hypothesis that needs some work.  I wonder if it's not just one thing in the nuts that's bugging us

 

 

Rhm I typed the second half of that post after ambien kicked in, sorry

 

I agree that slow-release carbs (or for that matter bulk protein) are unlikely subjects, because presumably, otherwise, we would notice the same effect to the same extent with other foods. The steak problem you have might just be due to transient narrowing of the vascular lumen, which would definitely promote temporary stupidity. (I think this occurs due to nitric oxide suppression, but I'm not sure.) I haven't noticed the same effect from large servings of seafood, even though I might still feel overfull.

 

And yes, cashews are definitely proidiotic for me as well.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 August 2015 - 12:04 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

It's the glutamate, stupid!

[ceridwen]

I hardly ever eat nuts. I think you might have an allergy.

[resveratrol_guy]

I now understand this in terms of the connection between glutamate, zinc, and ZnT3, which in some cases can conspire to inhibit cognition. But for most of us, they don't, which is why nuts are generally regarded as healthy.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 24 February 2017 - 01:46 AM.

[gamesguru]

Something about the macadamia is unusual.  Definitely makes me a bit sick if I eat too many.  Don't remember the context but Dr Greger even put it out there that eating too many was unhealthy.. in every sense of the word. Example,

 

In this study, we evaluated the onset and resolution of inflammation in control and macadamia oil-supplemented rats after a single session of exhaustive exercise. We also analysed the antioxidant enzymes catalase (CAT), glutathione peroxidase (GPx), superoxide dismutase (SOD), and thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS). Rats were supplemented for ten days with macadamia oil (25 mg/kg), which is rich in oleic and palmitoleic acids. On the 10th day, control and macadamia oil-treated rats exercised to physical exhaustion. Plasma and muscular levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines (tumour necrosis factor alpha [TNF-α], interleukin-1 beta [IL-1β], IL-6, cytokine-induced neutrophil chemoattractant-3 [CINC-3], macrophage inflammatory protein-3-alpha [MIP-3α]) and soluble L-selectin were measured prior to, immediately after, and 2, 24, and 48 h after exercise. Our data revealed increases in the muscle concentrations of IL-1β, L-selectin, CINC-3, and MIP-3α in the group supplemented with macadamia oil compared with the concentrations in the control group. CAT also increased in the treated group, which is important because pro-inflammatory cytokines precede growth factor production and might alter the muscle repair process. We concluded that inflammation resulting from exhaustive exercise was greater in animals that received macadamia oil than in control animals.

 

Palmitoleic acid is found in fish too (oleic in olive oil), so they're unlikely to be the culprit.  Still I would stick to pecans/walnuts, pistachios hazelnuts and a few almonds/peanuts.  And closer to 100g.  The sheer amount of fat is not good^[1].  Try not to go too crazy on seeds or legumes too.

[Duchykins]

I'm not disputing anything said, I just want to put out there that Dr Greger thinks humans are herbivores, which is bullshit and beyond his purview (MDs have no authority in biology).  I'd steer clear of that guy because he has a few quack ideas and I've read several of his articles where he tries to talk about human omnivorism and gets some things outrageously wrong.   Outrageous because some of the things he gets wrong should be within his purview (medicine) and so he should not have them so ass-backward.  

 

For example, he claims that dogs and other omnivores cannot get atherosclerosis, which is outrageously false since dogs can develop atherosclerosis just living in the average American household - and because for decades we've been using non-human omnivorous mammals like rats, chimps and baboons to develop models for studying atherosclerosis in humans.  It's easy for an omnivore to develop atherosclerosis, partly because there are multiple causes of the same disease and because omnivores are generalists, not specialists.   Even cats (carnivores) can get atherosclerosis.  So these are the kinds of facts he should not get wrong, as a doctor.  It represents a higher level of incompetence than an MD getting biology facts wrong.  MDs aren't much trained in biology (it's an empirical science and medicine is only an applied science) and that's why nearly a quarter of this country's MDs are creationists, so we can't expect them to be experts in biology - but medicine is different, that's what they trained for and should not get stuff like that wrong.  So be careful with this guy.

 

If you're looking for some info, and Greger is telling you something that you can verify with a more reliable source, then no worries.  But just be wary of doing things on his opinion alone.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 February 2017 - 04:06 AM.

[normalizing]

for the people who experience mental fog and other problems with nut consumption, you should research how they are processed before being sold. usually raw nuts are sprayed with various chemicals to prevent mold and various bacteria, especially almonds in raw state are always sprayed with various toxic chemicals. you should do research on that and see that "raw" foods in general must be pasterized and sprayed with things to keep lawsuits at bay if you get sick on them

[Duchykins]

for the people who experience mental fog and other problems with nut consumption, you should research how they are processed before being sold. usually raw nuts are sprayed with various chemicals to prevent mold and various bacteria, especially almonds in raw state are always sprayed with various toxic chemicals. you should do research on that and see that "raw" foods in general must be pasterized and sprayed with things to keep lawsuits at bay if you get sick on them

 

Many commercial "raw" almonds are not really raw since they must be heated to neutralize the natural toxins they contain.  

 

But yeah, after several salmonella outbreaks traced back to raw almonds, California law as of 2007 requires almonds to be treated to prevent these outbreaks from occurring again.  Since California supplies virtually 100% of America's almonds, and exports some of them elsewhere, chances are high that the raw almonds you're eating have been treated to prevent salmonella contamination.

 

If you're in the US, then your commercial raw almonds are certainly treated.  But foreign imports might not be.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 February 2017 - 09:10 AM.

[ketogeniclongevity]

Eating nuts insidiously replaces the robust saturated fats in your brain with delicate polyunsaturated fatty acids, increasing the oxidation in your brain that leads to dementia, parkinson's, and general neuroinflammation.