18 replies to this topic

[3mp0w3r]

The idea of SARMS (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) seems too good to be true to me.  

 

I was wondering if there is anyone who has used testosterone at some point in their life has tried one of the SARMS (LGD-4033 etc).  

 

I am not training at any significant level to justify SARMs for myself.  However, I am fairly curious about them.  If someone could relate their experiences it would be good.

[cani!]

Well, N=1 but I tried both Ostarine and low level of Sustanon (testosterone blend) and depending on your objectives, I actually think steroids are safer than SARMS for now. The research is going good on that front so I'm sure they will come up with better substances but Ostarine failed at stage 3 trials for lack of efficiency (they added muscle mass but didn't increase exercise tolerance, but it was with elders and at 3 mg a day). Personnaly, I had no ill-effects from Ostarine at 12 mg a day and it did help with recovery and joint pain. I had no "shut down" of natural t production, acne or whatever but the effects were sublte.

 

With Sustanon, I had to be careful not to gain too much weight, I was stronger then I ever was before, recovered much faster but my joints were hindering me. I had not negatives from Sustanon at 150 mg a week (TRT doses really) but my balls did shrink and my LH was down. Also, Sustanon cost less than Ostarine in my case.

 

Anyways, this is just my experience and you will hear things all across the board: SARMS cannot be compared to steroids but I think it is mainly a dosage issue: bodybuilders take 10-20 times the amount of testosterone normally given, as high as 1000 mgs a week, and they want to compare those doses to low levels of SARMS (we don't know what the sweetspot is in terms of dosage for SARMS.).

 

The legal issue is another factor to weight in but my TRT were prescribed by a doctor...

 

If I had to quantify, looking at my training logs, here we my stats at the end of the Ostarine cycle (8 weeks) and at the end of the sustanon (12 weeks)

 

Ostarine:

Bench press: 275x4 (from 235 the year before)

Deadlift: 315x5 (from 290 the year before, my deadlift sucks!

Squat: 395 x 5 (from 370 the year before)

Clean and Jerk: 175x5

 

Sustanon:

Bench press: 315 x 5

Deadlift: 355 x5

Squat: 455 x 5

 

Those were one year apart but I don't train for strenght very long, just about 10 weeks before switching to more explosive movement. Some of the increases might be due to training but considering I was at a complete plateau for 3 years before doing either, I think it shows you just how efficient both of these are. 

 

Edit: sources

 

On steroids, very good and complete review of litterature, discussing side effects, results etc...

 

http://link.springer...80-00003#page-1

 

On Ostarine: 

 

http://www.businessw...on#.VP8Nn_mG9hw

Edited by cani!, 10 March 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[3mp0w3r]

Thanks for the reply cani,

 

I had suspected that the SARMS were being overhyped by those trying to sell them online.  I read stories about people claimed them equally as effective as real testosterone but I have remained sceptical.  

 

Out of curiosity, how old are you?  Those weights for the lifts are nothing to complain about.  

 

I stopped doing deadlifts after getting a herniated disc.  Shift work truly messed up my testosterone levels and negatively affected my training.  Once I stopped the night shifts my test levels returned to normal from super low.  It made me realise how variable your own production can be.  

 

SARMs still sound appealing if they improve recovery and help with joint pain.  I am no longer looking to gain mass but want to return my strength and get lean.  I will probably wait a while before there is more research.

 

 

 

Edited by 3mp0w3r, 11 March 2015 - 01:57 AM.

[cani!]

Thanks for the reply cani,

 

I had suspected that the SARMS were being overhyped by those trying to sell them online.  I read stories about people claimed them equally as effective as real testosterone but I have remained sceptical.  

 

Out of curiosity, how old are you?  Those weights for the lifts are nothing to complain about.  

 

I stopped doing deadlifts after getting a herniated disc.  Shift work truly messed up my testosterone levels and negatively affected my training.  Once I stopped the night shifts my test levels returned to normal from super low.  It made me realise how variable your own production can be.  

 

SARMs still sound appealing if they improve recovery and help with joint pain.  I am no longer looking to gain mass but want to return my strength and get lean.  I will probably wait a while before there is more research.

 

I don't think they are as efficient yet. From the studies, they didn't bind to only muscle or bones but raised bad cholesterol and liver enzymes were elevated too. IMO they are at best a "safer" alternatives to oral steroids (those are dangerous plain and simple, most bad side effects associated from steroids, including cholesterol numbers going up, liver toxicity etc are cause by orals steroids and their conversion in the liver). But if you are not afraid of pinning, real testosterone is safer and cheaper for now. 

 

I was really afraid of needles but my doctor showed me how to do it sub cutaneously and it is completely painless and easy. You can do it with an insulin needle (30g) once a week and you are done. People using peptides like SEMAX or diabetics do it everyday. 

 

I'm 34, I'm trying to play competitve soccer for a last season and we are not tested in our league. As a soccer player, strength plays a minimal role but we do a little bit of weights in the off-season then convert it to explosiveness with plyos and sprints. I didn't post my number to boast or anything and I'm not the strongest guy in the gym by far but I think it showed just how efficient those substances are. 

 

In my case, Ostarine was really effective with joint pain. My shin splints were really bad when I started it and they were gone after 2 weeks. They returned shortly after. The only thing that really worked permanently for shin splints and inflammation is C60... I have no clue why.

 

Apparently, Nandrolone is really good for joint pain but I would never use something like that. They are sexual side effects that can take years to recover from. 

 

Again, N=1 but do keep us posted if you ever try sarms. Ceretropic has some and I trust them more than weird guys probably brewing stuff in their bath tub while watching Jerry Springer :-)

Edited by cani!, 11 March 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Strelok]

SARMs can definitely supress the HPTA and reduce endogenous T production.  There are a number of reports of people thinking SARMs are a safe alternative to AAS, only to find out they aren't nearly as effective and require some level of PCT just like an AAS cycle. 

[kikai93]

I've used several different SARMs and a round of steroids that were medically prescribed. 
I use a compound exercise workout MWF and HIIT TThSat

Baseline (Trained for Eight Weeks after Four Years Sedentary Lifestyle)

Overhead Press  100 lbs 5x5
Benchpress         150 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row    150 lbs 5x5
Deadlift                220 lbs 5x5
Squat                   180 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat %              25
5k Time Trial          20 minutes

After Eight Week Cycle Test-E and Dianabol + Four Weeks PCT

Overhead Press  160 lbs 5x5
Benchpress         220 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row    210 lbs 5x5
Deadlift                280 lbs 5x5
Squat                   250 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat %              20
5k Time Trial          18 minutes

After Four Weeks of Just Creatine

Overhead Press  170 lbs 5x5
Benchpress         230 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row    230 lbs 5x5
Deadlift                290 lbs 5x5
Squat                   270 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat %              20
5k Time Trial          18 minutes

After Eight Weeks MK 2866 + GW 501506

Overhead Press  200 lbs 5x5
Benchpress         250 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row    250 lbs 5x5
Deadlift                320 lbs 5x5
Squat                   290 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat %              11
5k Time Trial          15 minutes

After Eight Weeks Just Creatine 

Overhead Press  210 lbs 5x5
Benchpress         260 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row    260 lbs 5x5
Deadlift                340 lbs 5x5
Squat                   300 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat %              14
5k Time Trial          15 minutes

After Twelve Weeks RAD 140 + MK 677

Overhead Press  230 lbs 5x5
Benchpress         320 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row    320 lbs 5x5
Deadlift                480 lbs 5x5
Squat                   400 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat %              13
5k Time Trial          13 minutes

My diet is near perfect  Added 40lbs. of muscle in 52 weeks, dropped a lot of fat. 
Subjectively, the "Just Creatine" periods were difficult from a mental/motivation standpoint (both Test and Sarms give a boost on that front).
Steroids are definitely more effective (and definitely have stronger undesirable side effects).  SARMs were effective and didn't give me any suppression or other noticeable side effects.
RAD 140 gave me a subjective feeling of mental clarity as well.

[zorba990]

I've used several different SARMs and a round of steroids that were medically prescribed.
I use a compound exercise workout MWF and HIIT TThSat

Baseline (Trained for Eight Weeks after Four Years Sedentary Lifestyle)

Overhead Press 100 lbs 5x5
Benchpress 150 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row 150 lbs 5x5
Deadlift 220 lbs 5x5
Squat 180 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat % 25
5k Time Trial 20 minutes

After Eight Week Cycle Test-E and Dianabol + Four Weeks PCT

Overhead Press 160 lbs 5x5
Benchpress 220 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row 210 lbs 5x5
Deadlift 280 lbs 5x5
Squat 250 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat % 20
5k Time Trial 18 minutes

After Four Weeks of Just Creatine

Overhead Press 170 lbs 5x5
Benchpress 230 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row 230 lbs 5x5
Deadlift 290 lbs 5x5
Squat 270 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat % 20
5k Time Trial 18 minutes

After Eight Weeks MK 2866 + GW 501506

Overhead Press 200 lbs 5x5
Benchpress 250 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row 250 lbs 5x5
Deadlift 320 lbs 5x5
Squat 290 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat % 11
5k Time Trial 15 minutes

After Eight Weeks Just Creatine

Overhead Press 210 lbs 5x5
Benchpress 260 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row 260 lbs 5x5
Deadlift 340 lbs 5x5
Squat 300 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat % 14
5k Time Trial 15 minutes

After Twelve Weeks RAD 140 + MK 677

Overhead Press 230 lbs 5x5
Benchpress 320 lbs 5x5
Bent Over Row 320 lbs 5x5
Deadlift 480 lbs 5x5
Squat 400 lbs 5x5
Bodyfat % 13
5k Time Trial 13 minutes

My diet is near perfect Added 40lbs. of muscle in 52 weeks, dropped a lot of fat.
Subjectively, the "Just Creatine" periods were difficult from a mental/motivation standpoint (both Test and Sarms give a boost on that front).
Steroids are definitely more effective (and definitely have stronger undesirable side effects). SARMs were effective and didn't give me any suppression or other noticeable side effects.
RAD 140 gave me a subjective feeling of mental clarity as well.

close to World record 5k times hmmmm.

[kikai93]

"close to World record 5k times hmmmm."

Last one was a mistype.  Still about 15 minutes.  I run a consistent five minute mile +/- 6 seconds.

[maximum411]

I used Ostarine from an supposedly very reliable source and had no noticeable effects, positive or negative. Not at all worth it IMO.

[Rocket]

Well, N=1 but I tried both Ostarine and low level of Sustanon (testosterone blend) and depending on your objectives, I actually think steroids are safer than SARMS for now. The research is going good on that front so I'm sure they will come up with better substances but Ostarine failed at stage 3 trials for lack of efficiency (they added muscle mass but didn't increase exercise tolerance, but it was with elders and at 3 mg a day). Personnaly, I had no ill-effects from Ostarine at 12 mg a day and it did help with recovery and joint pain. I had no "shut down" of natural t production, acne or whatever but the effects were sublte.

 

With Sustanon, I had to be careful not to gain too much weight, I was stronger then I ever was before, recovered much faster but my joints were hindering me. I had not negatives from Sustanon at 150 mg a week (TRT doses really) but my balls did shrink and my LH was down. Also, Sustanon cost less than Ostarine in my case.

 

Anyways, this is just my experience and you will hear things all across the board: SARMS cannot be compared to steroids but I think it is mainly a dosage issue: bodybuilders take 10-20 times the amount of testosterone normally given, as high as 1000 mgs a week, and they want to compare those doses to low levels of SARMS (we don't know what the sweetspot is in terms of dosage for SARMS.).

 

The legal issue is another factor to weight in but my TRT were prescribed by a doctor...

 

If I had to quantify, looking at my training logs, here we my stats at the end of the Ostarine cycle (8 weeks) and at the end of the sustanon (12 weeks)

 

Ostarine:

Bench press: 275x4 (from 235 the year before)

Deadlift: 315x5 (from 290 the year before, my deadlift sucks!

Squat: 395 x 5 (from 370 the year before)

Clean and Jerk: 175x5

 

Sustanon:

Bench press: 315 x 5

Deadlift: 355 x5

Squat: 455 x 5

 

Those were one year apart but I don't train for strenght very long, just about 10 weeks before switching to more explosive movement. Some of the increases might be due to training but considering I was at a complete plateau for 3 years before doing either, I think it shows you just how efficient both of these are. 

 

Edit: sources

 

On steroids, very good and complete review of litterature, discussing side effects, results etc...

 

http://link.springer...80-00003#page-1

 

On Ostarine: 

 

http://www.businessw...on#.VP8Nn_mG9hw

 

150mg Sustanon (or any testosterone) is not going to put a person into the super-physiological range for free testosterone to get the benefits you write about here.  150mg will put you in the 950-1100 range for a day or two and then taper off.  Unless you have hypogandism, you shut down your own testosterone production for NO REASON at all. 

 

This doesn't even take into account that Sustan 150 is a blend of different esters and some of those esters have a half life of 2 days, meaning that your T levels spiked for 2 days after the injection and then rapidly decreased.  You should have just used Test E or C or injected the Sustan 2x per week.

 

Even in clinical studies, levels below 300mg testosterone/week do not cause growth.  That's why bodybuilders take at least 500mg/week as a low dose cycle.

 

Your entire write up about 150mg Sustanon is FAR from the truth if you even did any.

[Manwhoworkstoomuch!]

I've heard so much about this for anti aging purposes. Mk 677 looks interesting and doesn't have much side effects.

[Junk Master]

I was just going to add, if you made that kind of strength jump on that little test, you my friend are a super responder!

 

There's a huge diff between 275 x 4 and 315 x 5 !  I couldn't help but think what you could do on 750 mg plus EQ 800 mg, Tren E 600 mg a week; and those are moderate numbers for a bodybuilder for the first ten weeks of a cycle.

 

Given the right genetics, i.e. full muscles, aesthetic frame, you could be Mr. Olympia!  Lol.

 

BTW  I'm sure there are people who respond much differently to exogenous hormones, which is why professional sports can, at times, almost be a game of who responds the best off the least, given some basic physiological starting points.

[Neuronaut91]

I never run SARMs without a test base anymore. I've run orals, pinned, and SARMs.. Have a great hook up for PCT and raw powder sarms. What do you want to know?

[saj87]

I am interested in this as well. The problem is that opinions are pretty different. I dont want to even get super big of anything, just a regular athletic body, but with some help to achieve it fast. Do you people think that claims of some SARMs about putting 6-8 lbs of muscle at the end of 4-8 weeks is true? That would be enough for me to try them. Also, for cutting fat which one do you recommend the most? the same question for endurance and strenght. Thank you.

[3mp0w3r]

Hmm, I haven't been on here in ages.  Looks like SARMs are not really catching on in general.  

[Rocket]

SARMS are ok. Better than being a "natty", but miles short of a simple run of a testosterone cycle. 250mg of test a week will beat something like ostarine hands down. I've done both and speak from experience.

[aconita]

Better than being a "natty"

 

LOL...

 

I guess you mean they lead to faster and more marked gains....

 

Not only anabolic steroids are more effective than SARMs but possibly are safer too, while the former are official drugs with many decades of clinical experience the latter are mostly of dubious manufacture and comparatively poorly researched, certainly not approved as drugs.

[John250]

LOL...

I guess you mean they lead to faster and more marked gains....

Not only anabolic steroids are more effective than SARMs but possibly are safer too, while the former are official drugs with many decades of clinical experience the latter are mostly of dubious manufacture and comparatively poorly researched, certainly not approved as drugs.

Agreed!

https://www.longecit...tc/#entry849859

[kurdishfella]

I advice YK-11 it is an myostatin inhibitor among other things but this particular effect leads not only to muscle but also health benefits unlike all the other steroids including trt.