24 replies to this topic

[pone11]

Has anyone found any research literature in which catalase is added in vitro or supplemented in vivo, specifically to measure the effects on oxidative stress?   Surprisingly, the research literature seems very very sparse on this topic.

 

Superoxide radicals are produced in the mitochondria as a byproduct of aerobic metabolism and the electron transport chain.   Superoxide dismutase converts the superoxide radicals to hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).  Catalase is one of two enzymes to neutralize H2O2.  Catalase specifically will neutralize H2O2 to O2 and water.   So catalase performs a key role in the antioxidant system at neutralizing a very toxic chemical.

 

When scientists genetically engineer mice to overexpress catalase, those mice live longer:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2464724/

 

But genetic engineering isn't an option for most humans, so these studies are suggestive rather than directly helpful for supplementation.

 

Direct supplementation I guess is more problematic, because apparently the supplements are destroyed in digestion.   I don't see any reason why we could not design a liposomal catalase.   People are creating their own Vitamin C liposomes, so you could certain brew some liposomes that get catalase past digestion and deliver catalase intracellular.

 

But I was imagining that some scientists would at least attempt some kind of supplementation, maybe intravenously, and maybe through liposomal delivery.  I cannot find any good in vivo studies.

 

There are some studies - and I cannot find many - that suggest supplemental catalase does improve exercise recovery:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11003786

 

There are also some suggestions that pseudocatalase formulas may help to lessen grey hair:

http://www.medicalne...cles/260089.php

 

Aside from wanting to understand catalase research and supplementation options, one reason I want to know about this topic is that the new C60+olive oil supplementation people are trying appears to create more H2O2, while simultaneously acting as an anti oxidant against the added H2O2.  To the extent that C60+OO might behave like an SOD mimic without lowering endogenous levels of SOD in the body, it's worth considering how can we elevate the levels of catalase through supplementation in order to deal with higher effective conversion rates of superoxide to H2O2.

 

 

 

Edited by pone11, 14 February 2015 - 04:44 AM.

[Logic]

From my notes.
ie:  more research reqd.

Nrf2 inducers upregulate catalase.

If you don't mind being more blond?:
green tea polyphenols
curcumin
sulforaphane
quercitin
carnosic acid
carnosol
sappanone A
gedunin

If you want to keep your dark hair:
Tanshinone IIA from Salvia miltiorrhiza root (tan shen)
genistein

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=670312

cocoa?
resveratrol?
Protandim???
http://www.longecity...zyme-naturally/

chelator M30
http://www.longecity...f-catalase-sod/

Product B??
http://www.longecity...ivation/page-20

melatonin?
Picrorhiza kurroa?
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=585740

Bacopa?!
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=420046

Gotu Kola
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=614383

Curcumin
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=593880

Garlic. (Sulphur? MSM??)
http://www.longecity...inst-glycation/

SODzyme with GliSODin & Wolfberry ??
http://www.lef.org/V...SODin-Wolfberry

Deprenyl
http://www.longecity...b-and-deprenyl/

Centrophenoxine
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=489239

various cell lines treated with pterostilbene have shown increased expression of the antioxidants catalase, total glutathione (GSH), glutathione peroxidase (GPx), glutathione reductase (GR), and superoxide dismutase (SOD)
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3649683/

[pone11]

SODzyme with GliSODin & Wolfberry ??
http://www.lef.org/V...SODin-Wolfberry
 

 

GliSODin based SOD supplements have been shown by research to lower total SOD because the body downregulates the endogenous SOD:

https://www.jstage.j...5/53_5_608/_pdf

 

I've become very skeptical of dietary supplements.  Unless you find very dramatic and conclusion research almost always in my experience supplements have unintended consequences.

[pone11]

 

SODzyme with GliSODin & Wolfberry ??
http://www.lef.org/V...SODin-Wolfberry
 

 

GliSODin based SOD supplements have been shown by research to lower total SOD because the body downregulates the endogenous SOD:

https://www.jstage.j...5/53_5_608/_pdf

 

I've become very skeptical of dietary supplements.  Unless you find very dramatic and conclusion research almost always in my experience supplements have unintended consequences.

 

 

conclusive not conclusion....

 

Really wish Longecity would let us edit posts indefinitely.

[tunt01]

I sympathize with your plight to find something that upregulates endogenous catalase levels.  I spent a bit of time on this matter and also found very sparse results.

 

This paper on lutein increasing catalase is one of the few bright spots in my notes.

 

I think it might be best to focus on upregulating SIRT3, as it is implicated in longevity and seems to drive higher catalase levels via SIRT3-FOX01 pathway.

[Kirito]

Purslane extract could also be worth a look.

 

"catalase and superoxide dismutase activity, increased significantly in all examined organs. The increase in catalase was by 15.7, 79.8 and 50% respectively, in liver, kidney and testes..."

 

http://www.academicj...Dkhil et al.pdf

[HighDesertWizard]

I think C60-OO increases Catalase... What is the evidence that C60 increases H2O2?

 

 

Should have posted this here...

 

 

Thinking out loud here about a C60-OO Common Anecdotal Effects Explanation focused on Catalase and H2O2... A few studies...

 

Gray Hair Reduction

• Premature Graying as a Consequence of Compromised Antioxidant Activity in Hair Bulb Melanocytes and Their Precursor

Increased Alcohol Tolerance

• Reduction in Central H2O2 Levels Prevents Voluntary Ethanol Intake in Mice: A Role for the Brain Catalase-H2O2 System in Alcohol Binge Drinking

Reduced Skin Wrinkling

• H2O2 Accumulation by Catalase Reduction Changes MAP Kinase Signaling in Aged Human Skin In Vivo

And there's this, with implications for dosage regimen?

• Bioaccumulation of fullerene (C60) and corresponding catalase elevation in Lumbriculus variegatus

 

 

 

 

 

[pone11]

 

I think C60-OO increases Catalase... What is the evidence that C60 increases H2O2?

 

And there's this, with implications for dosage regimen?

• Bioaccumulation of fullerene (C60) and corresponding catalase elevation in Lumbriculus variegatus

 

 

One hypothesis would be that C60 acted as an SOD mimetic, increased H202, and the body responded to this normally by raising its catalase levels.   Remember that the normal role of SOD is to convert superoxide radical to H2O2.   

 

Here is a study in which a hydrophilic carbon cluster (HCC) acts as an SOD mimetic, and like SOD does the conversion to H2O2:

http://www.pnas.org....12/8/2343.short

 

The only direct study for C60 superoxide action I have so far is this one, and it is confusing to me:

http://www.howard.ed...g fullerene.pdf

 

This study on C60 says that it can scavenge many kinds of free radicals including superoxide, and that it can also scavenge many toxic byproducts of H202.   But what I am not clear on from this study is what does C60 convert superoxide to?  What is the actual chemical transformation?   The study almost makes it sound like the superoxide gets "stuck" to the C60 but clearly it cannot just stay there forever?

 

There are also issues around both of the above studies using hydrophilic fullerenes, and C60+OO is probably hydrophobic.   

 

So, bottom line, if you took C60 and thought it might act like an SOD mimetic, you might want to cover your bets and see if you can support your catalase levels.  Even if C60 fights the byproducts of H2O2 well, the cleanest way to remove H2O2 is to use catalase or glutathione peroxidase to convert it to water.  It's far better to not have H2O2 at all than to deal with its toxic byproducts.

Edited by pone11, 28 February 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[HighDesertWizard]

<< SNIP >>

 

So, bottom line, if you took C60 and thought it might act like an SOD mimetic, you might want to cover your bets and see if you can support your catalase levels.  Even if C60 fights the byproducts of H2O2 well, the cleanest way to remove H2O2 is to use catalase or glutathione peroxidase to convert it to water.  It's far better to not have H2O2 at all than to deal with its toxic byproducts.

 

But as I noted immediately above, many people, including myself, are experiencing C60-OO effects that implicate an increase in catalase... (Like the hair in my goatee getting visibly less white/gray).

 

Seems to me that the anecdotal evidence suggests C60 is increasing catalase without any additional supplementation necessary.

[pone11]

 

<< SNIP >>

 

So, bottom line, if you took C60 and thought it might act like an SOD mimetic, you might want to cover your bets and see if you can support your catalase levels.  Even if C60 fights the byproducts of H2O2 well, the cleanest way to remove H2O2 is to use catalase or glutathione peroxidase to convert it to water.  It's far better to not have H2O2 at all than to deal with its toxic byproducts.

 

But as I noted immediately above, many people, including myself, are experiencing C60-OO effects that implicate an increase in catalase... (Like the hair in my goatee getting visibly less white/gray).

 

Seems to me that the anecdotal evidence suggests C60 is increasing catalase without any additional supplementation necessary.

 

 

I never denied anywhere that people are reporting less grey hair and other signs of hydrogen peroxide.   The question is the reason for this more catalase or because of C60?

 

In a reaction where superoxide is converted - by C60 or similar fullerene - to extra H2O2, the body raises catalase levels to respond, and the C60 itself also counteracts some of the byproducts. And the net effect of those things together is fewer H2O2 byproducts.

 

The fact that catalase rises probably is not the reason people are seeing less grey hair.   More catalase is the body's natural response to more H2O2.   The lessening of grey hair is probably the C60 scavenging byproducts of H2O2, acting synergistically to catalase.   So the body is getting a new and extra defense that it did not have before when it has the C60.

 

If it works that way, then additional catalase might be synergistic and might give even better results.   Because it would always be better to neutralize H2O2 entirely than to let it stay in the system and hope to scavenge its byproducts.   Unfortunately, supplementing catalase isn't easy because if taken orally it will not escape digestion.

Edited by pone11, 28 February 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[Luminosity]

I don't understand most of what has been posted.  Is there something I can take that might help me with age spots and gray hair?  Does anyone know where to buy it and how to take it?

[Logic]

 

SODzyme with GliSODin & Wolfberry ??
http://www.lef.org/V...SODin-Wolfberry

 
GliSODin based SOD supplements have been shown by research to lower total SOD because the body downregulates the endogenous SOD:
https://www.jstage.j...5/53_5_608/_pdf
 
I've become very skeptical of dietary supplements.  Unless you find very dramatic and conclusion research almost always in my experience supplements have unintended consequences.

 

Hence the double '??' rating in my notes.
Note the '!?' for Bacopa:
 
kbal's post:

"...Was just doing a research on SOD effect on acne (h**p://ibmi.mf.uni-lj.si/acta-apa/acta-apa-05-2/1.pdf), and from Muscular Development July 09 found:
''Published peer-reviewed scientific research suggests that a very specific combination of five natural phytonutrients in the proper ratio can achieve a profound degree of cellular antioxidant enzyme induction.
These ingredients are as follows:

Milk Thistle— Scientific name Silybum marianum, used in naturopathy for liver and body cleansing.
Bacopa— Scientific name Bacopa monnieri, known for ability to increase SOD and catalase.
Ashwaganda— Scientific name Withania somnifora, an ancient Indian ayruvedic used for centuries.
Green tea extract— Scientific name Camellia sinensis, known for ability to increase metabolism and burn fat.
Turmeric— Scientific name Curcuma Longa, same turmeric found in the spice cabinet and a true ‘super-antioxidant.’

When these ingredients are put together in the proper ratio and ingested, the human body can expediently counter the toxic side effects of free radical damage at the cellular level. In this way the body achieves an exponentially greater degree of free radical off-loading. The result is far more focused in that the pure antioxidant protection has no possibility of producing more oxidative stress, as we see with vitamin C. Plus, in sharp contrast to the neutralizing ability of vitamin C, which works on a 1:1 molecular ratio, one molecule of catalase eliminates 1,000,000 molecules of H2O2/sec, without being consumed in the process...''
 
Ayurvedic and Traditional Chinese medicines never have one ingredient for a reason IMHO.
The ingredients have been refined over centuries for their abilitiy the synergise for good effect/s while cancelling out the bad.

look at the opposing effect/s of Ashwaganda and Bacopa on testosterone for example?

These types of synergies are very important to look out for in our searches for nuggets of info in the sea of BS that is the Internet.
The above may be such a nugget.  Then again it may not...


There is no one supp to rule them all, One supp for finding,
One supp to save them all and from the darkness hide them.

[pone11]

 

 

SODzyme with GliSODin & Wolfberry ??
http://www.lef.org/V...SODin-Wolfberry

 
GliSODin based SOD supplements have been shown by research to lower total SOD because the body downregulates the endogenous SOD:
https://www.jstage.j...5/53_5_608/_pdf
 
I've become very skeptical of dietary supplements.  Unless you find very dramatic and conclusion research almost always in my experience supplements have unintended consequences.

 

Hence the double '??' rating in my notes.

 

?? doesn't mean you reject the suggestion.  It just means you have questions, and that is okay.

 

I was just pointing out that this is a supplement that is probably better never taken.

[Logic]

?? doesn't mean you reject the suggestion.  It just means you have questions, and that is okay.
 
I was just pointing out that this is a supplement that is probably better never taken.

I agree, but by the same token it could be argued that one should not take melatonin...?

I should not have quoted you to hightlight the possibility that a combination of supps similar to the one linked may be what we are looking for here however.
My apologies; I got a little carried away.

[HighDesertWizard]

Purslane extract could also be worth a look.

 

"catalase and superoxide dismutase activity, increased significantly in all examined organs. The increase in catalase was by 15.7, 79.8 and 50% respectively, in liver, kidney and testes..."

 

http://www.academicj...Dkhil et al.pdf

 

Supplement purslane?

 

http://www.bulksuppl...-purslane.html?

[Kirito]

 

Purslane extract could also be worth a look.

 

"catalase and superoxide dismutase activity, increased significantly in all examined organs. The increase in catalase was by 15.7, 79.8 and 50% respectively, in liver, kidney and testes..."

 

http://www.academicj...Dkhil et al.pdf

 

Supplement purslane?

 

http://www.bulksuppl...-purslane.html?

 

 

I currently take Swanson Purslane capsules, but want to try the Bulksupplements powder in the near future.

 

[pone11]

 

Purslane extract could also be worth a look.

 

"catalase and superoxide dismutase activity, increased significantly in all examined organs. The increase in catalase was by 15.7, 79.8 and 50% respectively, in liver, kidney and testes..."

 

http://www.academicj...Dkhil et al.pdf

 

Supplement purslane?

 

http://www.bulksuppl...-purslane.html?

 

 

I have seen a lot of herbal supplements like Hiritaki have very similar kinds of stimulative effects on glutathione and other antioxidants.  The problem with these is the body compensates over time by lowering its endogenous levels.   That's a similar effect to the study I linked on Gliadin SOD supplements.   It's a shame that the study you linked did not study the body's response over time.

 

Where you see these herbs used a lot (and appropriately) is in detox protocols.  If you know you are going to chelate mercury or lead for a five day period, you can use these herbs to temporarily uplift you antioxidant levels to hopefully help with anything the chelator moves out of a stable location.   I'm not clear on what the quantified benefit is even in that case.

 

I would say you have to be very very careful about taking supplements based on studies like that one on purslane.   You start taking 40 things similar to that based on similar levels of information, and you can end up horribly sick.  That did happen to me and recovering from it has not been straightforward.   I'm so skeptical of supplements now I want the research to be slam dunk with major benefits, little toxicity, little controversy.    MitoQ is getting close to that for me.     I did bookmark your study and will come back and study purslane further.

Edited by pone11, 02 March 2015 - 02:01 AM.

[Logic]

Purslane is very interesting for two other reasons too:
 
It grows everywhere, like a weed.  In fact its classified as a weed meaning the govt or someone may actually pay you to pull is up and eat it.
ie: Its cheap and probably growing in your back yard!
(This fact is studiously ignored on this forum. I would love to know why members would rather buy a less effective extract than just go pick some fresh and free Purslane??? It speaks of some strange mind-set..?)
 
It displays telomere lengthening properties.
http://www.google.co...&gsc.q=Purslane
This may well have a lot to do with its SOD and catalase upregulation and I wonder if c60oo might have a similar effect?

[Kirito]

I want to eventually grow some Purslane in my small urban apartment, or maybe I can convince my sister grow some at her house. I could enjoy it in just about every meal.

 

Aronia extract seems to have this effect as well: CAT (261.30+/-59.78 vs. 213.34+/-47.36 U/mg-Hb) and significant increases in SOD (2380.63+/-419.91 vs. 3066.53+/-542.24

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20037491

 

It's a nice bonus to go along with the CD38-inhibiting properties of the C3G.

Edited by Kirito, 02 March 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[Luminosity]

Anyone know the answer to my question?

[pone11]

I don't understand most of what has been posted.  Is there something I can take that might help me with age spots and gray hair?  Does anyone know where to buy it and how to take it?

 

This isn't the kind of forum that dispenses casual supplement advice.  This place is a gathering of science-oriented individuals who struggle to understand the latest research on aging and life extension.

 

You can read the threads on C60, and that probably has the greatest chances of helping with grey hair (no guarantee).  However I would caution you that taking C60 is highly experimental at this point - in spite of the many positive reports from individuals taking it.   No one knows the toxicity level and the really scary point is that it could accumulate over time in lipid structures of cells and reach toxicity only after many years.  This isn't a C60 thread, and this isn't the place anyone should argue about C60.   I would say go read the many threads on this site and be very very conservative about how much you take, if you decide that you want to make yourself part of that experiment.

[Luminosity]

Thanks for answering but there's all kinds of conversations on this forum.  I recall something about catalase doing something like what I wanted it so, so I asked.  

[pone11]

Thanks for answering but there's all kinds of conversations on this forum.  I recall something about catalase doing something like what I wanted it so, so I asked.  

 

Catalase is one way to get rid of grey hair, but the problem is how do you get the catalase into your body in the right places.

 

Catalase pill supplements are destroyed by digestion.

 

There is a study recently done that used a proprietary catalase cream to partially reverse grey hair.    No one sells that.

[YoungFresh]

From my notes.
ie:  more research reqd.

Nrf2 inducers upregulate catalase.

If you don't mind being more blond?:
green tea polyphenols
curcumin
sulforaphane
quercitin
carnosic acid
carnosol
sappanone A
gedunin

If you want to keep your dark hair:
Tanshinone IIA from Salvia miltiorrhiza root (tan shen)
genistein

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=670312

cocoa?
resveratrol?
Protandim???
http://www.longecity...zyme-naturally/

chelator M30
http://www.longecity...f-catalase-sod/

Product B??
http://www.longecity...ivation/page-20

melatonin?
Picrorhiza kurroa?
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=585740

Bacopa?!
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=420046

Gotu Kola
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=614383

Curcumin
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=593880

Garlic. (Sulphur? MSM??)
http://www.longecity...inst-glycation/

SODzyme with GliSODin & Wolfberry ??
http://www.lef.org/V...SODin-Wolfberry

Deprenyl
http://www.longecity...b-and-deprenyl/

Centrophenoxine
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=489239

various cell lines treated with pterostilbene have shown increased expression of the antioxidants catalase, total glutathione (GSH), glutathione peroxidase (GPx), glutathione reductase (GR), and superoxide dismutase (SOD)
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3649683/

 

Can anyone explain to me what this guy is saying ?

 

Is he saying that 

 

green tea polyphenols

curcumin
sulforaphane
quercitin
carnosic acid
carnosol
sappanone A
gedunin

 

Cause hair to lighten up therefore causing even grey hairs ? 

 

And if you want darker hair to try the other ones (Tanshinone IIA from Salvia miltiorrhiza root , cocoa reservatrol curcumin, etc ) ? 

 

Or did I get this wrong ?

 

Because I usually want to supplement with green tea and I want to know if it can lighten hair (I dont want lighter hair/grey) !!

 

Please explain to me............................................................. tx

[baccheion]

Vitamin D is said to increase catalase.