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Alzheimer's Immunotherapy: the Amyloid Beta Hypothesis is Unwrong

alzheimers alzheimer amyloid beta tau vaccine immunotherapy

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#1 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:04 PM


It seems as though the once-popular assumption that amyloid beta is the root cause of Alzheimer's is only "wrong" because the clearance of amyloid plaques fails to alleviate symptoms, despite the apparent fact that amyloid clearance may delay or prevent the disease in the first place; and because immunologically induced amyloid clearance in asymptomatic individuals occasionally results in deleterious side effects. However, by applying a multifaceted approach to prevention which avoids these side-effects, and also attacking hyperphosphorylated tau (phosphotau) plaques in postdiagnostic cases via immunotherapy and induced autophagy, we might make more rapid progress. Obviously, combining these strategies with a long antidementia checklist would be prudent as well.

 

The big picture:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...93542-f0002.jpg

 

Related threads:

 

http://www.longecity...elopment-theory

http://www.longecity...-for-alzheimers

 

Papers (some are paywalled, some not):

 

Cessation of Neoangiogenesis in Alzheimer's Disease Follows Amyloid-beta Immunization

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC3584312

 

Anti-amyloid beta to tau-based immunization: Developments in immunotherapy for Alzheimer disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC4051350
 

Active immunotherapy for Alzheimer’s disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC3560289

 

Amyloid-β signals through tau to drive ectopic neuronal cell cycle re-entry in Alzheimer's disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23345405
 

Amyloid-β Peptide Remnants in AN-1792-Immunized Alzheimer’s Disease Patients
https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC1698828
 

Ameliorative Effects of a Combination of Baicalin, Jasminoidin and Cholic Acid [CBJC] on Ibotenic Acid-Induced Dementia Model in Rats
https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC3577735

 

Two Phase 3 Trials of Bapineuzumab in Mild-to-Moderate Alzheimer’s Disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC4159618

 

Low vitamin K intakes in community-dwelling elders at an early stage of Alzheimer's disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19027415

 

The possible role of vitamin K deficiency in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer’s disease and in augmenting brain damage associated with cardiovascular disease
http://www.medical-h...(01)91307-6/pdf

 

Summary:

 

Earlier in this millenium, it was thought that the amyloid beta (AB) plaques present in postmortem Alzheimer's dementia (AD) (and often, other dementia) brains had been causal in the disease. Thus AD prevention was ostensibly a mere matter of vaccination against AB.

One of the earliest attempts was AN-1792. It succeeded handily in the reduction of hydrophobic AB ("insoluble" AB42) in the brain, accompanied by an increase in the hydrophilic form ("insoluble" AB40) in the CSF. Disaggregated AB40 (and slightly, AB42) can pass through the blood-brain barrier (BBB) for excretion.

This process appears to have worked quite well in AN-1792 and other trials, but nevertheless the symptoms of AD were only slightly suppressed. Worse, cases of meningioencephalitis were observed in some patients, presumably the result of an autoimmune response targetting normal brain tissue. In other cases, cerebral amyloid angiopathy (CAA) resulted, lining the blood side of the BBB with AB40 plaque, not unlike cholesterol plaque resulting from oxidized LDL and foam cells.

Furthermore, it has been shown in numerous studies that the presence of AB plaque in levels comparable to that observed in AD nonetheless does not imply symptomatic dementia; a more discerning phenotype of an AD brain is the plaques and tangles of phosophotau.

All of this suggests that efforts to prevent or ameliorate AD by means of AB clearance is misguided, not unlike dying one's hair in order to appear more youthful. However, as the studies above suggest, the problem may be a combination of (1) prior to the appearance of symptoms, failing to address CAA and autoimmune hyperactivation in a manner which would permit successful excretion of AB and (2) in symptomatic individuals, clearing AB without simultaneously clearing phosophotau. Progress appears to have been made toward the goal of avoiding autoimmune reactions, but otherwise these issues remain unresolved.

It looks like AD pathology evolves as follows: (1) AB accretion damages the tight junction (TJ) seal between the cerebrovascular endothelium and white/gray matter, permitting backflow of toxins (including previously cleared AB) and inhibiting oxygen and nutrient delivery, (2) hyperneovascularization evolves as an ongoing response to the damage, (3) the increasingly incompetent new TJs create a positive feedback loop with AB deposition, (4) rising toxicity levels create phosphotau, and (5) phosphotau inihibts normal tau from performing its memory tasks and also activates further AB pathology in a positive feedback loop involving ectopic repetitive cell cycle reentry (CCR) culminating in neuronal death.

So this is why AB immunotherapy fails to alleviate postdiagnostic AD, even though it largely succeeds in AB clearance, even well into the disease process: hyperpermeable TJs are cropping up everywhere. It's rather like collecting garbage throughout a city where all the fences are ripped open: things appear cleaner, but the city is still dysfunctional because garbage and stray animals continue to flow uninhibited around the neighborhood. Worse, CAA inhibits the healing of TJs.

But I think it was a mistake to give up so easily, because we can quite possibly eliminate the CAA, allowing the TJs to heal. Vitamin K2 and endothelial rejuvenators (MitoQ/c60oo, raw cacao, olive oil, etc.) would perhaps accomplish this, especially because low vitamin K has been linked (above) to accelerated Alzheimer's. (It also turns out to have more direct involvement with AD prevention, involving Gas6.) Perhaps this is also the reason that aspirin goes a long way toward AD prevention, but only before symptoms emerge, at which point the phosphotau feedback loop has been activated, preventing AB excretion and eliminating the prophylactic value of aspirin.

In other words, AD prevention has little to do with the suppression of AB production or even clearance from the brain; it's more related to AB excretion, which implicitly requires vascular maintenance as indicated above. Immunotherapy can assist to the extent of delivering embedded AB to the BBB for disposal, courtesty of the microglia (brain immune cells). If you're asymptomatic, then there are substances that can help you remain that way, even in the interminable delay between now and evetual FDA approval of an AB vaccine: consume substances which (1) clear AB (EGCG, lipidated curcumin such as Longvida, and many others described on Longecity) and (2) prevent the emergence of CAA (MitoQ etc.as above). It also wouldn't hurt to pursue a ketogenic diet, thereby preventing diabetes types 2 (systemic) and 3 (cerebral), cancer, and adrenal dysregulation all at once. And definitely read the CBJC paper above.

But what if you already have AD, in which case the amyloid hypothesis is definitively "wrong" in the sense that AB clearance will not affect prognosis? In this case, absent any approved phosphotau immunotherapy (clinical trials are ongoing), you could do the above for AB excretion in addition to upregulating autophagy. Wogonin, rapamycin analogs, nilotinib, and other compounds might be useful here, although dosing is a sensitive issue on account of hyperautophagy killing too many normal neurons in the same manner that nilotinib causes cancer cells to digest themselves. You would likely also need to repair the TJ by means of mononuclear mesenchymal stem cell therapy (or whole bone marrow reinjection, which is widely available from competent osteopaths and various quack doctors alike), ideally after minimizing the plaques to the extent possible through supplements.

So what's the future of AD immunotherapy? Probably nothing, at least in developed countries, because the most effective prevention opportunity is obviously in young people, which means that the results won't be evident for decades. There is some chance, however, that a therapeutic (i.e. postdiagnostic) vaccine will be available for existing patients several years from now. (Of course, look to banana republics for early availability following successful trials in tightly regulated countries.) The latest techniques seem to involve "biolistics" (biological ballistics): the injection of DNA plasmids which encode for various AB epitopes directly into cells via reversible electroporesis (gene gun). If I understand the approach, this technique should provide an autorenewing continual low level exposure of AB antigens to the immune system, sustaining longterm immunity which reminds the microglia to bind with and fragment large tau and AB aggregates, thereby facilitating clearance and ultimately excretion. Given the failure of monoclonal antibody trial in the paper above, the AB plasmid approach may be more fruitful.

 

Other insights and contradictory arguments are invited. Evidence talks.

 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 16 February 2015 - 02:06 PM.

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#2 Astroid

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:12 AM

Inflammation of the brain is evident in people with Alzheimer's as well as those with Strokes.  I watched a youtube video of MDs in Boca Raton, FL injecting an anti-inflammation solution into a woman's neck.. to get it into the brain.. within 8 minutes she was normal ! 

 

Doctors ignore inflammation.. in the body.. It is associated with all problems. They are clueless... Systemic Enzymes fight inflammation naturally.  

 

 



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#3 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 02:27 AM

Tau vaccine clinical trial:

 

http://www.longecity...-clinical-trial

 

@Astroid: Sounds like the TNF inhibitor, Etanercept. Apparently it works wonders for ischemic stroke (and presumably cerebral vasculitis). Granted, I'm not sure I'd want to be suppressing TNF on a longterm basis without some form of antiwarburg supplementation. And all that money ($900/pop, if I recall) might be better spent on mesenchymal stem cell therapy. Still, it's good to have the option. In theory, it could inhibit some of the immune overreaction responsible for polluting the brain with amyloid beta.

 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 18 February 2015 - 02:28 AM.


#4 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 02:54 AM

Alternatively, we might be able to get rid of phosphotau by rejuvenating Alzheimer's neurons with virally-delivered NGF. When do you think we might be able to do that?

 

How about this year...

 

http://www.longecity...ial-cere-110-03

 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 19 February 2015 - 02:55 AM.


#5 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 09:24 PM

Clioquinol might be a way for Alzheimer's patients to buy some time...

 

So I've been investigating the theory that zinc and especially copper ions cause amlyoid beta to become toxic, and furthermore that clioquinol analogs can eliminate this toxicity, in particular by converting hydrophobic AB42 to hydrophilic AB40, thereby facilitating clearance into the circulatory system. (These ions compete, so nutrient intake management may result in some level of neuroprotection. In no event would eliminating copper or zinc entirely be a good idea.)

The seminal mouse study from 2001 prompted Prana Biotech to develop PBT2-201 and PBT2-204, used in phase 1 and 2 trials for 12 and 52 weeks @ 250 mg/d, respectively. (I'm assuming that there is no metabolically significant difference in their formulations.) It was reported in this thread last year that PBT2 had failed to improve cognition. But that's not exactly what the trial results say.

First of all, Prana said of PBT2-201: "Cognitive Executive Function as measured by the NTB (Neuropsychological Test Battery) was significantly improved for patients on the 250mg dose." But then, of PBT2-204: "Overall PiB retention [amyloid plaque load] in PBT2-treated patients did go down, but it went down in the placebo group as well." In other words, PBT2-204 failed because the control group also experienced a reduction in amyloid. It's possible that something was wrong with the amyloid scanner (essentially, modified PET). But a more mundane explanation was that most of the trial participants were aggressive with respect to getting their disease under control (because, after all, why would they otherwise have signed up for an experimental drug trial). Such interventions would be more likely to manifest in improved clinical outcomes over 52 weeks, than 12. This could explain the apparent discrepancy. In other words, the patients were using other therapies which obviated the need for the drug.

I think it's flawed to assume that just because clearing AB does not lead to reversal of AD (even though it appears to slow it down) that therefore clearing AB is unncessary. Thus PBT2 might be a useful weapon to have, whose full potential may only be realized when used in combination with other therapies, particularly in patients unwilling to assume the rigors of other antialzheimers therapies (especially dietary improvement). Alternatively, it could be used to achieve accelerated clearance, in light of the phase 1 results.

Nevertheless it is safe to assume that this drug will never arrive in the clinic, as most drugs with much more convincing results never do, either. Fortunately, clioquinol is readily available from banana republic mail order pharmacies (search "buy clioquinol"), whose purity could easily be verified. (Note the isolated but significant history of the SMON side effect mentioned in the aforelinked study.) "Our results suggest that CQ may be suitable for testing in clinical trials in AD patients. The recommended dose of CQ when it was prescribed as an antiamebic was 500 mg 3–4 times/day (20 mg/kg/d), which is a weight-normalized dosage level that achieved inhibition of Aβ deposition in our current studies." That dosage is much higher than the dose of PBT2, so tread carefully.

A related therapeutic approach to clioquinol administration would be the upregulation of metallothionein (especially metallothionein-III), along the lines of what the Walsh Institute does. The institute is a quasiscientific establishment which noneless seems to have a viable theory of amyloid detoxification, regardless of the now obvious fact that amyloid clearance is insufficient for AD remission.
 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 19 February 2015 - 09:34 PM.

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#6 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:56 PM

If you think that coconut oil is great for treating Alzheimer's, you're stuck in 2014. See here.

 



#7 Logic

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:33 PM

14. Methylene blue & niacin & Alzheimer's
http://www.longecity...769-turnbuckle/
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#8 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 03:57 PM

14. Methylene blue & niacin & Alzheimer's
http://www.longecity...769-turnbuckle/

 

Thanks for this! The PubMed full text is here. But I have some questions on this:

 

1. If nicotinamide is such a hero, then why was this 2008(!) study seemingly ignored? Does it not translate from mice to humans? Is it a money thing? (I've heard nothing of this in the popular press, versus other popular treatments such as vitamin D.)

 

2. Turnbuckle said that he takes niacin, but the study explored the role of nicotinamide. Wiki says: "Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacological and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion." Why take niacin instead of nicotinamide?

 

3. Indeed, why would he take a nicotinamide precursor (which targets SirT2), when I think he's still taking nicotinamide riboside (SirT1-7, including 2)? Obviously there's a targetting issue here that I don't understand.

 

But yeah, maybe you have an ignored gem here. Can you or anyone else (Turnbuckle?) answer these questions?

 

Note to the lurkers: niacinamide and nicotinamide are names for the same chemical, with the latter being preferred. Biologists just like to keep things complicated ;)



#9 Turnbuckle

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 08:21 PM

 

14. Methylene blue & niacin & Alzheimer's
http://www.longecity...769-turnbuckle/

 

Thanks for this! The PubMed full text is here. But I have some questions on this:

 

1. If nicotinamide is such a hero, then why was this 2008(!) study seemingly ignored? Does it not translate from mice to humans? Is it a money thing? (I've heard nothing of this in the popular press, versus other popular treatments such as vitamin D.)

 

2. Turnbuckle said that he takes niacin, but the study explored the role of nicotinamide. Wiki says: "Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacological and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion." Why take niacin instead of nicotinamide?

 

3. Indeed, why would he take a nicotinamide precursor (which targets SirT2), when I think he's still taking nicotinamide riboside (SirT1-7, including 2)? Obviously there's a targetting issue here that I don't understand.

 

But yeah, maybe you have an ignored gem here. Can you or anyone else (Turnbuckle?) answer these questions?

 

Note to the lurkers: niacinamide and nicotinamide are names for the same chemical, with the latter being preferred. Biologists just like to keep things complicated ;)

 

 

 

Niacin has other effects, such as on the circulatory system . As for niacin and AD, I've posted this before, but it bears reposting--

 

Conclusion: Dietary niacin may protect against AD and age related cognitive decline.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../v075p01093.pdf

 

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#10 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 08:41 PM

 

Niacin has other effects, such as on the circulatory system . As for niacin and AD, I've posted this before, but it bears reposting--

 

Conclusion: Dietary niacin may protect against AD and age related cognitive decline.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../v075p01093.pdf

 

 

 

Good to hear from you. So would you mind telling us your existing niacin and nicotinamide riboside dosage (per kg)? I'm surprised that niacin would confer circulatory benefits above and beyond nicotinamide riboside. Details, please?


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 22 February 2015 - 08:43 PM.


#11 Turnbuckle

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 01:06 AM

 

 

Niacin has other effects, such as on the circulatory system . As for niacin and AD, I've posted this before, but it bears reposting--

 

Conclusion: Dietary niacin may protect against AD and age related cognitive decline.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../v075p01093.pdf

 

 

 

Good to hear from you. So would you mind telling us your existing niacin and nicotinamide riboside dosage (per kg)? I'm surprised that niacin would confer circulatory benefits above and beyond nicotinamide riboside. Details, please?

 

 

 

I'm not taking nicotinamide riboside. Never have. I took niacin -- 3 grams daily in single gram doses -- for some decades. Nowadays I take 2 grams in a single dose maybe once or twice a week. I generally take a gram of nicotinamide at the same time.


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#12 ceridwen

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 05:49 PM

I tried nicotinamide. Needless to say it didn't work



#13 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 10:51 PM

 

 

I'm not taking nicotinamide riboside. Never have. I took niacin -- 3 grams daily in single gram doses -- for some decades. Nowadays I take 2 grams in a single dose maybe once or twice a week. I generally take a gram of nicotinamide at the same time.

 

 

Thanks for explaining that. Is there any fundamental reason why you don't take NR -- or it is just the not-really-tested aspect? And in light of the data you presented, ceridwen's comment would actually be expected, no? In other words, is the value of niacin and nicotinamide purely of the prevention variety, as opposed to something positively therapeutic?
 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 25 February 2015 - 10:53 PM.


#14 Turnbuckle

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 11:19 PM

 

 

 

I'm not taking nicotinamide riboside. Never have. I took niacin -- 3 grams daily in single gram doses -- for some decades. Nowadays I take 2 grams in a single dose maybe once or twice a week. I generally take a gram of nicotinamide at the same time.

 

 

Thanks for explaining that. Is there any fundamental reason why you don't take NR -- or it is just the not-really-tested aspect? And in light of the data you presented, ceridwen's comment would actually be expected, no? In other words, is the value of niacin and nicotinamide purely of the prevention variety, as opposed to something positively therapeutic?
 

 

 

I can't test everything. I've bought many hyped products that didn't do anything for me, so I'll let this one age a bit. Besides, it's not clear that it is actually better than niacin in its effects on mitochondria. As for AZ, I think niacin (and possibly niacinamide) does potentially have an ability to reverse problems with tau, and this comes from my own (dangerous) experimentation with methylene blue. (See section 14 of my profile page.) However, once neurons start to die off, niacin's ability to rescue the dead is obviously nil.



#15 Arisia

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 03:24 AM

Of course, this is in mice:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23312803

 

 

In this study we tested the hypothesis that NR treatment in an AD mouse model could attenuate Aβ toxicity through the activation of PGC-1α-mediated BACE1 degradation. Using the Tg2576 AD mouse model, using in vivo behavioral analyses, biochemistry assays, small hairpin RNA (shRNA) gene silencing and electrophysiological recording, we found (1) dietary treatment of Tg2576 mice with 250 mg/kg/day of NR for 3 months significantly attenuates cognitive deterioration in Tg2576 mice and coincides with an increase in the steady-state levels of NAD(+) in the cerebral cortex; (2) application of NR to hippocampal slices (10 μM) for 4 hours abolishes the deficits in long-term potentiation recorded in the CA1 region of Tg2576 mice; (3) NR treatment promotes PGC-1α expression in the brain coinciding with enhanced degradation of BACE1 and the reduction of Aβ production in Tg2576 mice. Further in vitro studies confirmed that BACE1 protein content is decreased by NR treatment in primary neuronal cultures derived from Tg2576 embryos, in which BACE1 degradation was prevented by PGC-1α-shRNA gene silencing; and (4) NR treatment and PGC-1α overexpression enhance BACE1 ubiquitination and proteasomal degradation. Our studies suggest that dietary treatment with NR might benefit AD cognitive function and synaptic plasticity, in part by promoting PGC-1α-mediated BACE1 ubiquitination and degradation, thus preventing Aβ production in the brain.



#16 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 07:15 PM

Thanks Turnbuckle and Arisia. Taking the above 2 posts in concert look like more evidence that NAD+ is a huge lever of cognitive protection, but we don't know whether niacin, nicotinamide, or nicotinamide riboside is the most effective (and/or economical) way to pull it. I suppose time will tell as users report their experiences in the appropriate threads.

 

As to cognitive repair, we have this exciting new trial, which clears amyloid and actually ameliorates dementia and has already been tested in humans (albeit retrospectively, hence the new trial).

 



#17 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 01:16 AM

I just read this brilliant essay by Stephanie Seneff of MIT. For something that was written in 2011, it's probably only more relevant in 2015. What does it have to do with AD? See part 8 (but the whole thing is well worth a read). Summary: statins for cholesterol reduction are a free ticket to dementia, catabolism, and kidney disease. Probably most of you already knew that, but I've never taken them and had no idea. Thanks to this recommended reading from Turnbuckle, I never will. (Note also Seneff's advocacy of a lactate-rich (i.e. proanaerobic) diet. Normally, this would set off the carcinogensis alarm bells, but she's talking about a special kind of anaerobic metabolism that takes place inside muscle cells without assistance from the mitochondria, so the usual cancer precautions might not apply.)

 


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#18 Arisia

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 03:52 AM

Interesting. The way statins negatively affect CoQ10 is definitely bad. Turnbuckle's experience was very scary. However:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22795384

 

 

Amyloid precursor protein (APP) transgenic (Tg) mice were used as a model of AD. Atorvastatin (30 mg/kg/day, p.o.) or pitavastatin (3mg/kg/day, p.o.) were administered from 5 to 20 months of age. These 2 statins improved behavioral memory and reduced the numbers of SP at 15 and 20 M without affecting serum lipid levels. There was a reduction in immunopositive staining for N-acetyl glucosamine oligomer (NAGO) in the endothelium and in collagen IV in the APP vehicle (APP/Ve) group, with collagen IV staining most weakest near SP. There was also an increase in intensity and numbers of glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) positive astrocytes, particularly around the SP, where MMP-9 was more strongly labeled. Double immunofluorescent analysis showed that astrocytic endfeet had detached from the capillary endothelium in the APP/Ve group. Overall, these data suggest that statins may have therapeutic potential for AD by protecting NVU.

 


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#19 Logic

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 04:19 AM

Statins stimulate atherosclerosis, heart failure. Mito toxin etc!
http://www.longecity...mito-toxin-etc/
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#20 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:32 PM

 

Interesting. The way statins negatively affect CoQ10 is definitely bad. Turnbuckle's experience was very scary. However:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22795384

 

 

Amyloid precursor protein (APP) transgenic (Tg) mice were used as a model of AD. Atorvastatin (30 mg/kg/day, p.o.) or pitavastatin (3mg/kg/day, p.o.) were administered from 5 to 20 months of age. These 2 statins improved behavioral memory and reduced the numbers of SP at 15 and 20 M without affecting serum lipid levels. There was a reduction in immunopositive staining for N-acetyl glucosamine oligomer (NAGO) in the endothelium and in collagen IV in the APP vehicle (APP/Ve) group, with collagen IV staining most weakest near SP. There was also an increase in intensity and numbers of glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) positive astrocytes, particularly around the SP, where MMP-9 was more strongly labeled. Double immunofluorescent analysis showed that astrocytic endfeet had detached from the capillary endothelium in the APP/Ve group. Overall, these data suggest that statins may have therapeutic potential for AD by protecting NVU.

 

 

It's helpful that you presented this positive aspect of statins. (Like anyone in this vein of analysis, I need to gaurd myself against the tendency to see pharmacokinetics as a black-and-white issue.) But given that this is a 2012 paper, it seems unlikely that any team has figured out a way to produce this effect without the negatives outlined in Seneff's essay. Anyone who can contradict this assumption on my part is encouraged to respond.
 



#21 Arisia

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 11:30 PM

I'm definitely not a proponent of statins. Just wanted to post that bit of information for sake of completeness.



#22 Logic

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 12:21 AM

Nilotinib group buy:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=765364
 
If you are interested in acquiring Nilotinib prices are as follows:

  • Nilotinib $ 8.61 per gram.
  • 3rd party testing: $ 600 divided by the number of people that commit to the buy.
  • 6 people have committed to the group buy so far, so $600/6 = $ 100 each. I am working on 6 people. ie: add $100 to the above cost.
  • Postage from the testing lab has to be added and will differ depending on you location.

So far the following people have committed to the group buy:

  • resveratrol_guy                   100 g     $ 961.00  
  • ceridwen                              30 g      $ 358.30      
  • Logic                                    30 g      $ 358.30     
  • noot_in_the_sky                  50 g       $ 530.50
  • LongLife                              100 g     $ 961.00
  • Der Springende Punkt         20 g       $ 272.20 

Persons who has paid so far:

  • resveratrol_guy
  • Logic
     

If you are interested please PM me with your address and I will supply my Paypal Email address and the cost of postage from the lab and the lab's details.

  • If a minimum of 200 grams is not reached I will refund those who have paid.
  • If the number of people is less than 6: More money will have to be paid in for testing.
  • If the number of people is more than 6: I will refund the difference.

Timeline:

  • Arrival at testing lab after payment of the supplier: 4-6 working days.
  • Testing and splitting/packaging for end destination: 5-7 working days.
  • Postage to final destination:  unknown.

I am holding thumbs that the buy will be successful, so do contact anyone you think may be interested to bring the cost down as much as possible.



#23 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:01 AM

per OP: "But I think it was a mistake to give up so easily, because we can quite possibly eliminate the CAA, allowing the TJs to heal. Vitamin K2 and endothelial rejuvenators (MitoQ/c60oo, raw cacao, olive oil, etc.) would perhaps accomplish this, especially because low vitamin K has been linked (above) to accelerated Alzheimer's. (It also turns out to have more direct involvement with AD prevention, involving Gas6.) Perhaps this is also the reason that aspirin goes a long way toward AD prevention, but only before symptoms emerge, at which point the phosphotau feedback loop has been activated, preventing AB excretion and eliminating the prophylactic value of aspirin.

In other words, AD prevention has little to do with the suppression of AB production or even clearance from the brain; it's more related to AB excretion, which implicitly requires vascular maintenance as indicated above. Immunotherapy can assist to the extent of delivering embedded AB to the BBB for disposal, courtesty of the microglia (brain immune cells). If you're asymptomatic, then there are substances that can help you remain that way, even in the interminable delay between now and evetual FDA approval of an AB vaccine: consume substances which (1) clear AB (EGCG, lipidated curcumin such as Longvida, and many others described on Longecity) and (2) prevent the emergence of CAA (MitoQ etc.as above). It also wouldn't hurt to pursue a ketogenic diet, thereby preventing diabetes types 2 (systemic) and 3 (cerebral), cancer, and adrenal dysregulation all at once. And definitely read the CBJC paper above."


Does anyone know if this refers to the MitoQ bioavailable copper supplement? If so, can somebody explain? I think I have copper toxicity causing neurodegenerative issues...

 



#24 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:26 PM

per OP: "But I think it was a mistake to give up so easily, because we can quite possibly eliminate the CAA, allowing the TJs to heal. Vitamin K2 and endothelial rejuvenators (MitoQ/c60oo, raw cacao, olive oil, etc.) would perhaps accomplish this, especially because low vitamin K has been linked (above) to accelerated Alzheimer's. (It also turns out to have more direct involvement with AD prevention, involving Gas6.) Perhaps this is also the reason that aspirin goes a long way toward AD prevention, but only before symptoms emerge, at which point the phosphotau feedback loop has been activated, preventing AB excretion and eliminating the prophylactic value of aspirin.

In other words, AD prevention has little to do with the suppression of AB production or even clearance from the brain; it's more related to AB excretion, which implicitly requires vascular maintenance as indicated above. Immunotherapy can assist to the extent of delivering embedded AB to the BBB for disposal, courtesty of the microglia (brain immune cells). If you're asymptomatic, then there are substances that can help you remain that way, even in the interminable delay between now and evetual FDA approval of an AB vaccine: consume substances which (1) clear AB (EGCG, lipidated curcumin such as Longvida, and many others described on Longecity) and (2) prevent the emergence of CAA (MitoQ etc.as above). It also wouldn't hurt to pursue a ketogenic diet, thereby preventing diabetes types 2 (systemic) and 3 (cerebral), cancer, and adrenal dysregulation all at once. And definitely read the CBJC paper above."


Does anyone know if this refers to the MitoQ bioavailable copper supplement? If so, can somebody explain? I think I have copper toxicity causing neurodegenerative issues...

 

 

What makes you think so? Did you grow up in a household with very old copper-based water-pipes?

Have you had your electrolytes tested? With a simple blood-sample one can see if you have less Zink and magnesium than you should, and if you have higher Copper.

 

Anyways... if you suspect copper-issues, then load up on ZINK! It competes with copper quite fiercely, and higher dosages is known to cause copper-deficiency (which is usually very difficult to get, since the body utilizes so little copper - anything above then starts being problematic).

 

If you have neurodegenerative issues as well, then try out Magnesium-L-Threonate, it's been proven to counteract the excitotoxicity of glutamate, for those who have such issues (i.e Alzheimers), and has been shown to enhance neurogenesis to some extent.

 

HOWever... have you actually talked to an EXPERT, a toxicologist, or a neurologist about your issues? You need an actual expert opinion on this. And finally, have you been diagnosed with ANY physical or mental health issue? Do you have any sort of neuropsychiatric disease?

 

Don't assume you have copper-poisoning too quickly here - many issues can be caused by many things.

 

With that said, Zink and Magnesium-supplements are harmless if used responsibly (i.e, no f***ing MEGA-dosing, you hear me?!), so go right ahead and try those, if you haven't already.



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#25 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:34 AM

What makes you think so? Did you grow up in a household with very old copper-based water-pipes?

 

Have you had your electrolytes tested? With a simple blood-sample one can see if you have less Zink and magnesium than you should, and if you have higher Copper.

 

Anyways... if you suspect copper-issues, then load up on ZINK! It competes with copper quite fiercely, and higher dosages is known to cause copper-deficiency (which is usually very difficult to get, since the body utilizes so little copper - anything above then starts being problematic).

 

If you have neurodegenerative issues as well, then try out Magnesium-L-Threonate, it's been proven to counteract the excitotoxicity of glutamate, for those who have such issues (i.e Alzheimers), and has been shown to enhance neurogenesis to some extent.

 

HOWever... have you actually talked to an EXPERT, a toxicologist, or a neurologist about your issues? You need an actual expert opinion on this. And finally, have you been diagnosed with ANY physical or mental health issue? Do you have any sort of neuropsychiatric disease?

 

Don't assume you have copper-poisoning too quickly here - many issues can be caused by many things.

 

With that said, Zink and Magnesium-supplements are harmless if used responsibly (i.e, no f***ing MEGA-dosing, you hear me?!), so go right ahead and try those, if you haven't already.

 

I used to drink out of a copper vessel, a couple times I carelessly added lemon water and then drank it.. after a while I noticed the inside was oxidized, so I definitely ingested quite a bit of it

My hair and blood copper are on the low end, but apparently copper toxicity from exogenous copper can cause it to read low on tests. My zinc was high normal, also consistent with low bioavailable copper. My other trace minerals were all very low. 

Have seen an MD, an environmental medicine specialist who thinks copper toxicity makes sense. 

Other doctors, inc. neurologists, have been kind of useless. I have a blood brain barrier test showing my BBB is compromised. And my organic acids test suggests same, with some neurotransmitter issues that could be caused by copper tox. 


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