731 replies to this topic

[Rocket]

2nd and final dose of 300mg D and 1g Q. I will give an update tomorrow as that will be time enough for the mixture to have started doing something.

[Rocket]

Wow, where to start? 2 days of 300mg D and 1g Q and....

 

My lab mouse today....

 

1. woke up feeling like a zombie that needs 8 more hours of sleep

2. big sore on left thumb that looks and feels like it was rubbed raw with sandpaper. Ouch! Hurts!

3. entire body is sore

4. feel like it's the flu without the coughing and sneezing and no fever

5. so sick today can't go to work... feels like going to pass out if on feet too long

 

Either this is all good signs of good things to come, or it's not.

Edited by Rocket, 16 February 2017 - 03:29 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Pretty sure 300mg is too much. Someone earlier in the thread explained why.

Has anyone gotten their D from the group buy yet? Haven't heard what the status is.

[Rocket]

I will update tomorrow as I don't 'feel' these symptoms shall last very long (except the very oddly bruised thumb). The initial feeling of being run over by a freight train is already lessened, but I'm still not able to do too much other than watch TV in bed.

[sthira]

Wow, where to start? 2 days of 300mg D and 1g Q and....

My lab mouse today....

1. woke up feeling like a zombie that needs 8 more hours of sleep
2. big sore on left thumb that looks and feels like it was rubbed raw with sandpaper. Ouch! Hurts!
3. entire body is sore
4. feel like it's the flu without the coughing and sneezing and no fever
5. so sick today can't go to work... feels like going to pass out if on feet too long

Either this is all good signs of good things to come, or it's not.

That's interesting, thank you for reporting. How did you determine your two doses of 300 mg D for two days?

I hope you feel better soon!

[Longevitarian]

Rocket

Did you take your ecq and blood pressure tests before the experiments? It should be done at the same time ,

best in the morning for it to be valid.It might be very valuable marker

of improvement in your cardiovascular health , which you might observe over next 2 months or so...., Also related would

be impovement in the ability to hold erection as a marker of the vascular system health .....NOT KIDDING AT ALL...

Also blood tests should show increased white blood cells count ....which would be related to your symptoms as you have

described ....a marker of the immune system killing your bad cells ....it may last for few weeks....

300 mg seems excessive , though.....but good for toxicity studies ....your lack of posting to the board in the future

will indicate whether the experiment worked or not ....he he he ...

[Longevitarian]

it was ecg not ecq in my previous posting.

[Rocket]

 

Wow, where to start? 2 days of 300mg D and 1g Q and....

My lab mouse today....

1. woke up feeling like a zombie that needs 8 more hours of sleep
2. big sore on left thumb that looks and feels like it was rubbed raw with sandpaper. Ouch! Hurts!
3. entire body is sore
4. feel like it's the flu without the coughing and sneezing and no fever
5. so sick today can't go to work... feels like going to pass out if on feet too long

Either this is all good signs of good things to come, or it's not.

That's interesting, thank you for reporting. How did you determine your two doses of 300 mg D for two days?

I hope you feel better soon!

 

 

I have used a lot of peptides and grey market performance enhancing chemicals, and always done a good bit of research. In this case I got sloppy and loosey goosey (but well within safety protocol).

 

I read about the mouse study one time and extrapolated a one or two course of treatment to a 215lb muscular male. I think that I also read about someone else using 300mg. I also scanned literature on a real medical study using D to kill senescent cells in kidney's or the liver some other organ. Also the mouse study was a high dose per body weight as I recall that was administered... Again I've been sloppy on this one but I kept the dose reasonable (but higher) within safety limits of liver toxicity and other factors.

[Rocket]

Rocket

Did you take your ecq and blood pressure tests before the experiments? It should be done at the same time ,

best in the morning for it to be valid.It might be very valuable marker

of improvement in your cardiovascular health , which you might observe over next 2 months or so...., Also related would

be impovement in the ability to hold erection as a marker of the vascular system health .....NOT KIDDING AT ALL...

Also blood tests should show increased white blood cells count ....which would be related to your symptoms as you have

described ....a marker of the immune system killing your bad cells ....it may last for few weeks....

300 mg seems excessive , though.....but good for toxicity studies ....your lack of posting to the board in the future

will indicate whether the experiment worked or not ....he he he ...

 

My hobby is weight training, so I am very in tune with my body and probably healthier than other 40s men. But I definitely notice all the aches and pains from weight training.... wrists, shoulders, feet and all the odd places that things ache for a while and go away. It would be nice if that get's better from killing off a boat load of senescent cells, meaning less aches and pains. I have a heal spur that BPC157 has done much to improve but it still lingers from time to time.

 

My BP has always been spot on perfect (even when taking large doses of anabolics). So unfortunately there will be nothing to report with BP. It would be nice to have the cardiovascular system I had at 25!!

 

In fact I am planning on a comprehensive blood test in the following week because I have recently finished an anabolic cycle (6 weeks ago) and I need to see my blood counts (I with medical assistance remove blood to bring them down during and post cycle) and that my lipids are back to normal, and that the Tudca has kept my liver protected and that all the large amounts of protein I eat are not impacting my kidneys. I will pay attention to the white cell counts and I have so many previous blood tests on hand that I can give you my baseline white cell count and post D&Q white cell counts.

 

I can now report that I am feeling much better than this morning. My body seems to be "fighting off" whatever was the cause for the flu like symptoms. The raw red sore on my thumb will take a 4 or 5 days to heal up completely. But I am definitely recovering quickly.

 

I am recovering so quickly that I will make up my lost gym day on Friday which is always my rest day. I anticipate feeling 100% normal by morning after a night of sleep. I haven't even taken an aspirin today to assist with feeling better.

 

I can tell something is happening and it doesn't feel like a negative thing. I know how vague and placebo-like that sounds!

 

My only supplements at this time are Tudca and phenibut for sleep.

 

I will report back tomorrow, but I think all I will have to say is that I am 100% recovered.

Edited by Rocket, 16 February 2017 - 10:09 PM.

[sthira]

I will report back tomorrow, but I think all I will have to say is that I am 100% recovered.

I'm happy you're feeling better. Be careful!

And so given this new experience you've had with two rounds of 300 mg dasatinib and 1 g of quercetin, what are your plans moving ahead? I think I read that you aim to take this D+Q amount two days per month?

For what it's worth, the dose of quercetin used was 50mg/kg body weight. (From the full paper in PDF.) That would be about 4,800 mg for you. Have you considered upping your quercetin? It's not very bioavailable.

And back to dasatinib, you probably already have researched the risks and sides, but I want you to be safe and not injure yourself so I'm posting it anyway:

http://chemocare.com.../dasatinib.aspx

"When to contact your doctor or health care provider: Contact your health care provider immediately, day or night, if you should experience any of the following symptoms:

* Fever of 100.5° F (38° C) or higher, chills (possible signs of infection)

* Experience bleeding or easy bruising. 

The following symptoms require medical attention, but are not an emergency. Contact your health care provider within 24 hours of noticing any of the following:

* Swelling, weight gain, or increasing shortness of breath.

* Nausea (interferes with ability to eat and unrelieved with prescribed medication).

* Vomiting (vomiting more than 4-5 times in a 24 hour period).

* Diarrhea (4-6 episodes in a 24-hour period).

* Unusual bleeding or bruising.

* Black or tarry stools, or blood in your stools.

* Blood in the urine.

* Pain or burning with urination.

* Extreme fatigue (unable to carry on self-care activities).

* Mouth sores (painful redness, swelling or ulcers)"

[maxwatt]

Rocket-

Dose is to high.  It's killing too many cells, not just the senescent ones.  stop for now. 

[DareDevil]

Hi DD'

I don't think mixing the D+Q therapy with GH and GH related juicing is a good idea....
[...........]
....Simply speaking you make the cancer
and senescent cells very happy and comfy with any anabolic therapy at the same time you try
to whack them with D+Q....and make them die .....

To conclude here.....by mixing D+Q with GH you are trying to SUCK and BLOW at the same
time......obviously it will not work ...By using this kind of intervention (again , very extensive
theory involved) ......most likely you produce more rather than less of senescent cells (or other
bad cells) and you exhaust your pool of stem cells...Good Luck with that ......

Hi Longevitaruan,

Thanks for your interesting analysis.

However if this were entirely accurate then taking HGH at any time would also make your senescent cells very happy and not provide anti aging benefits? Yet human growth hormone has brought many people anti aging benefits without visibly boosting their senescent cells.

FYI prior to trying this combination I did a time of about 10 days with Dasatinib and Quercetin which probably reduced the population of older cells prior to taking growth hormone.

While I could be wrong, from the perceived effects in my subjective experimentation I have noticed a form of synergy with D+Q taken in conjunction with HGH in small 2iu doses. Possibly individual cells get a choice to either get younger or die? In any case I find the HGH more effective in this protocol.

Please note that I have frequent blood tests done to make sure I have no cancerous cells prior to taking HGH. Therefore there is no concurrent anti-cancer action taking place in my experiments.

However I will take your advice under consideration and try Day 1 D+Q, Day 2 HGH, Day 3 Rest.

Cheers,

DareDevil

Hi DD'

I don't think mixing the D+Q therapy with GH and GH related juicing is a good idea....
[...........]
....Simply speaking you make the cancer
and senescent cells very happy and comfy with any anabolic therapy at the same time you try
to whack them with D+Q....and make them die .....

To conclude here.....by mixing D+Q with GH you are trying to SUCK and BLOW at the same
time......obviously it will not work ...By using this kind of intervention (again , very extensive
theory involved) ......most likely you produce more rather than less of senescent cells (or other
bad cells) and you exhaust your pool of stem cells...Good Luck with that ......

Hi Longevitaruan,

Thanks for your interesting analysis.

However if this were entirely accurate then taking HGH at any time would also make your senescent cells very happy and not provide anti aging benefits? Yet human growth hormone has brought many people anti aging benefits without visibly boosting their senescent cells.

FYI prior to trying this combination I did a time of about 10 days with Dasatinib and Quercetin which probably reduced the population of older cells prior to taking growth hormone.

While I could be wrong, from the perceived effects in my subjective experimentation I have noticed a form of synergy with D+Q taken in conjunction with HGH in small 2iu doses. Possibly individual cells get a choice to either get younger or die? In any case I find the HGH more effective in this protocol.

Please note that I have frequent blood tests done to make sure I have no cancerous cells prior to taking HGH. Therefore there is no concurrent anti-cancer action taking place in my experiments.

However I will take your advice under consideration and try Day 1 D+Q, Day 2 HGH, Day 3 Rest.

Cheers,

DareDevil

[DareDevil]

2nd and final dose of 300mg D and 1g Q. I will give an update tomorrow as that will be time enough for the mixture to have started doing something.

Hi Rocket,

That sounds like an extreme version of how I felt when I decided to take a break. It made me empathize with how rough an attack cancer patients must endure with chemotherapy when we consider that this is a comparatively mild chemo drug.

I'm not sure how much of a visible effect you'll notice at your fairly young age but it should have been beneficial results despite the harsh side effects. I found that the flu-like symptoms last for almost a week after stopping taking D+Q (it did so twice).

Regarding doses. I'd expect that 100mg of Dasatinib should be enough for someone with your body mass? The higher dose given to leukemia patients is 140mg/day and about a quarter of them need to lower the dose.

Glad you've recovered quickly

DD

[Longevitarian]

DD

 

Sorry to disapoint you. but facts speak for themselves.....Instead talking I will bring an

article which ,even in the title is self explanatory and proves my point.....

Let me mention what is my point ....Against popular beliefs the GH is not antiaging .....

The science has proven beyond reasonable doubt that GH it is among main drivers of aging ......

 

Growth hormone action predicts age-related white adipose tissue dysfunction and senescent cell burden in mice

 

http://www.aging-us....cle/100681/text

 

cheers

 

[Rocket]

Update: I feel really damned great today after yesterday and feeling like I was ran over by a freight train. It's like yesterday never even occurred! Whatever the cause of the flu symptoms are, has been completely fought off by my immune system (I assume the immune system fought it off).

 

Bruise on thumb starting to heal over.

 

Feel really great.

 

I'll give an update this weekend or Monday about any changes or improvements I notice to my health. I think that I am noticing already an improvement in one area of my health. I just want a few days to see if it's real or placebo.

 

 

Edited by Rocket, 17 February 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Logic]

Group Buy progress report:

 

I am in the process of setting up a group buy 'online shop' as I simply cannot afford the time it takes to do them manually AND research, source, vet suppliers etc for the anti aging stack I hope to put together affordably by doing group buys.  Hence my lack of activity on the forums.

I also dont like to post no news, hence my silence here, but I have good news at last:
I wont go into details as that may compromise this and future buys, but can say that there was an outdated license that caused considerable delay in the transportation chain of the D.
The issue is now sorted out and the D is on its way to the lab at last!  (Confirmed via tracking #)
Phew!  

 

The COA looks good (99.81% pure) and has been sent to the lab for comparison with their test results.

 

I will post again when it clears customs in the USA.
Thx for everyones patience with this group buy of a new substance.

[Rocket]

Here is my update: Nothing to report. I do not feel better, worse, or anything different. Gym workouts unaffected. Maybe I don't have enough senescent cells in my 40s for anything to be noticeable. Perhaps if I can target a dose to run it for 1 week a month, that will be enough to slow down the progression of aging related changes and diseases to my body.

 

I don't think that I will run back to back 300mg doses anymore. The first dose was fine, but the 2nd caused the incredible flu like symptoms and bruise on my thumb.  Maybe 300mg once EW is enough... I don't know. But looking at the side effects of D, it is not something I want to run ED. 1 week on and 3 off would be nice.

[LOOKINGFORTIME]

oh I am sorry

[Logic]

Group Buy progress report:

 

The D cleared customs and has arrived at the lab.

[Nate-2004]

Awesome, so couple more weeks I guess. Thanks for doing all this work Logic!

[Logic]

I am concerned about the high and frequent doses of D+Q some people are using:

Consider that the HED of the rat study was around 30 mg of D and 300 mg of Q and that the effect is permanent. 

ie: Senescent cells that have been killed aren't coming back to life!

I see no reason to dose for more than 1-2 days every 3 to 6 months (thumb suck) considering the side effects of D.  

Especially if you are in your 40s or younger.
The right thing to do would be to try and find studies on how fast the effected senescent cell types accumulate to come up with a dosage schedule.

 

I am sure Niner is reading this as he has intends to document the dosages etc and effects seen.

I am also sure he, like me, is probably a little concerned at the huge doses used and intentions to do so, so often.

(new guys:  NB the post count and thankyou points below member's names before deciding whose posts to heed here if you aren't going to do your own due diligence and research!)

Its important to remember that D+Q is not THE anti aging magic bullet.

There are many other cell types that become senescent.

I suggest looking at Fafner55 etc's posts  to learn about other senescent cell killing substances for a start.
Also:
http://majormouse.org/?q=research

There is a 'Search' dropdown menu at the top of the page:  GoogleSiteSearch is your friend..!

 

Also there are many other reasons for inflam-aging like:

• Advanced Glycation Endproducts etc,
• an ever more leaky and dysbiotic gut letting toxins (LPS etc) and pathogens in. (IMHO)
• low level chronic infections
• etc.

I don't think Dasatinib would be able to hold a candle to and effective AGE breaker.

None that I know of has been found, but there is a lot one can do about the other causes on the list.

This site is (or was...) about careful and informed research..!  Plz do some!!!  

 

 

Dasatinib is a powerful anti cancer drug!
Read up on side effects and especially interactions with other substances via CYP3A4 etc as CYP inducers and inhibitors can and do effect the effective dosage of strong drugs dramatically.
Note my earlier disclaimer.
I certainly don't want to see anyone here harming or killing themselves, so please don't get carried away and end up getting the thing that scared you here in the 1st place..!
 

Edited by Logic, 20 February 2017 - 11:26 PM.

[Iuvenale]

Experience with overdose of SPRYCEL in clinical studies is limited to isolated cases. The highest overdosage of 280 mg per day for 1 week was reported in two patients and both developed severe myelosuppression and bleeding. Since SPRYCEL is associated with severe myelosuppression [see WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS and ADVERSE REACTIONS], monitor patients who ingest more than the recommended dosage closely for myelosuppression and give appropriate supportive treatment.

Acute overdose in animals was associated with cardiotoxicity. Evidence of cardiotoxicity included ventricular necrosis and valvular/ventricular/atrial hemorrhage at single doses ≥ 100 mg/kg (600 mg/m²) in rodents. There was a tendency for increased systolic and diastolic blood pressure in monkeys at single doses ≥ 10 mg/kg (120 mg/m²).

From http://www.rxlist.co...x-od&monopage=8

[Logic]

Group buy round 2?

 

I have noted  the people that showed interest in D after the closing of the 1st group buy and have added them to a new spreadsheet.
So far there is interest in 40 grams.
If we can get up to a 200 gram minimum I am willing to do another buy, so post here if you are interested.

[Agent0023]

I'm in for Round 2 for 5 grams D. Thanks, Logic

[Longevitarian]

Hi Guys"

 

Logic  Is Entirely Right. The modern cancer meds , specifically tyrosine kinase inhibitors and monoclonal antibodies

have relatively little side effects in comparison with the older "puke", "hair loss" and "complete knokout for few weeks"

type meds. However , this can be deceiving to people who have no background in medicine and who did not make

their proper due dilligence. Those meds work like a razor targetting specific biochemical pathways , which do

specific things and typically nothing else only when used exactly as intended by manufacturers .

However , when mixed with other meds (or some food) they might stimulate , or inhibit biochemical pathways which

can do things which are far beyond ,and may have completely uninteded biological effect. You may end up

crippled or even dead....by doing stupid stuff. Best advice....if you do not know what you are doing ....DONT DO IT.

 

Just for your knowledge, whenever I go to a doctor and he prescribes some medications I spend considerable

time researching it from every possible angle ...yes,..I don"t even trust the doctors.!!!!....And some of the meds I

have been prescribed by the docs, I spent several years studying and researching , before adding  anything else....

even when prescribed by a doc.

 

E.g thorough research of dislipidemia  meds or even certain vitamins saved me lots of trouble long term.....

 

For example;(this is directed at Body Builders).....do you know that having antioxidants such as vitamin C within

half an hour of exercise basically inhibits many positive effects of the training .....or juicing? No Kidding....simple

vitamins can void benefits of exercise when taken in wrong time....

 

 

[DareDevil]

Hi Logic,

 

Thanks for your concern. I have decided to continue taking 100mg doses of Dasatinib but only once a week or every two weeks. I think that the positive synergy I found it had with HGH may have to do with the latter not having any senescent cells to boost, therefore only producing youthening effects? This treatment has produced what I perceive to be positive youthening benefits. I feel better and stronger, crisper and cleaner, to sum it up I feel several years younger since taking it. My brother, without any discussion of age or appearance told my friends, once in my presence and to other friends a few days later in my absence, that although we're only 18 months apart that I look 20 years younger than him. While this may be an exaggeration, I find it interesting that this occurred right after my undergoing a first treatment Epitalon and then this one with Dasatinib. He isn't aware of my interest in self-medication and we never eer talk about age. FWIW.

 

DareDevil

[sthira]

Hi Logic,

Thanks for your concern. I have decided to continue taking 100mg doses of Dasatinib but only once a week or every two weeks. I think that the positive synergy I found it had with HGH may have to do with the latter not having any senescent cells to boost, therefore only producing youthening effects? This treatment has produced what I perceive to be positive youthening benefits. I feel better and stronger, crisper and cleaner, to sum it up I feel several years younger since taking it. My brother, without any discussion of age or appearance told my friends, once in my presence and to other friends a few days later in my absence, that although we're only 18 months apart that I look 20 years younger than him. While this may be an exaggeration, I find it interesting that this occurred right after my undergoing a first treatment Epitalon and then this one with Dasatinib. He isn't aware of my interest in self-medication and we never eer talk about age. FWIW.

DareDevil

Have you considered fasting (which tends to increase HGH) in conjunction with your weekly D+Q trials? However, like others above mentioned, I'd think once you've killed senescent fat and endothelial cells then you've killed them dead. They ain't coming back. So now arises the potential monster head of killing healthy cells, and how do you know when you're doing that? Maybe testing inflammatory rough markers like CRP and Sedimentation Rate might give you an indication?

Congratulations on feeling and looking better: even if this is placebo (not saying it is placebo since dasatinib is some serious stuff) I hope your positive reports continue. To me, though, once a week sounds like a lot. Where do you source your dasatinib again?

In conclusion, I like taking this combo of Dasatinib + Quercetin and like it more than any other supplement or anti-aging drugs I've ever tried. While Epitalon has its own very different positive effects and both NR and MitoQ have been good to take, I feel that this is so far the most powerful substance I have tried so far. In note, I have taken Human Growth Hormone over the past few years, but as HGH itself in liquid or powder form, and also with HGH precursors. I have also done Testosterone replacement and HCG (Gonadotropin). I find the DQ (Dasatinib Quercetin) combo to be my favorite to date.

DareDevil

With regard to HGH, are you watching out for hyperinsulinemia induced by it? What are your blood glucose levels looking like under your regime? HbA1c?

Edited by sthira, 21 February 2017 - 04:46 PM.

[Rocket]

So some people here are already supplementing with D.

 

1. Do you notice that your skin feels softer? I really notice it on the palms of my hands and fingers.

2. I wear reading glasses that I am constantly putting on and taking off when I work on the computer. I don't really need them to read my monitor, but they help my eyes feel less strained and tired. The last couple of days I haven't reached for them while working. I tried to assess if my eyesight is improved, but it does not appear to be. My eyes feel less tired and strained while working on the computer.

 

[Fred C. Dobbs]

How valuable is it to fast when taking D+Q?

 

Are we coming to any consensus on the best dosing/frequency/cycle?

 

Thanks!

[eigenber]

Count me in for 5gm on round 2.

Thanks