731 replies to this topic

[Logic]

Dasatinib Tracking #s:

I have just sent out all the overseas (from the USA) tracking #s to those that have not notified me of receipt of their packages.

If anyone in the USA has not received their Dasatinib; plz contact me.

[Nate-2004]

 

 

There is no reason to over complicate things. Some need to be very young for his face to look good while skinny.
Aged indivudual quickly add up decade in appearance when go lower then 12% fat. And even if you gain extra weight later chances are that your face dont regain much of fatty tissue that gives that puffy younger look.

 

I think the same is happening for me. I'm not losing weight from fasting though, just calories in < out, I've lost 12 lbs very slowly over the past few months, but I go through a lot of refeeds. I'm also taking vitamin D and K and using the sauna to boost growth hormone. Yet apparently that's not enough. The question is how to get back that baby fat on the face and hands while keeping it off my belly I guess. Is that where brown adipose tissue comes in? 

 

This is way off topic at this point but this thread went there a long time ago.

 

 

Check my previous post. I did write it to cover this question after all!  

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=812287

Basically the stuff woman rub on their boobs to make them bigger does so by increasing adipose (fat) cell proliferation and cell size, so should work on old gaunt faces.
All these creams contain fenugreek, or its active ingredient/s, as one of the ingredients.

It's also a telomerase activator, so can be taken orally, but increases estrogen levels.

Further info is linked in the previous link: 
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=808997

I get the impression you/we're in too much of a panic/hurry to properly read these links..? 
You're not alone here, but people very often do themselves a disservice by grabbing onto just one straw like Senolytics, or Nicotinamide Riboside, or whatever,  rather than try and grasp the big picture.

This guy picked up on the causes of aging and worked out a bloody good preventative stack very quickly:
http://www.longecity...dation-targets/

Its a good place to start to quickly understand the 'damage' theory of aging IMHO.
For the 'programmed' theory; look into Heat Shock Proteins (HSP) for a start.

 

 

Yeah I use the sauna a lot, 20 mins 4 times a week, sometimes back to back sessions. I heard they boost GH, create heat shock proteins and activate FOXO3.  I also take hydrolyzed collagen powder with vitamin C. I read that post but I haven't looked into BHT yet. I have fenugreek actually, a bit of it in powder form from BulkSupplements, but don't always take it. It seems to boost my sex drive when I do though. Does rubbing that on my face actually boost subcutaneous adipose tissue or is that something else? Could I take fennel and the other ingredients and make a lotion out of it? Is fenugreek the main active ingredient?

Edited by Nate-2004, 16 April 2017 - 04:49 AM.

[ambivalent]

@Daredeveil: Thanks for providing the update DD.  This guy appears to have demonstrated improvements in regaining facial mass using NR; in the initial stages of heavy NR I felt I noticed changes which were perhaps not obviously visible but I felt it in addition to increased skin smoothness. However, a couple of weeks later I developed a rather bloated face due to elevated histamine levels which I'm certain NR was at least partially complicit in and my appetite surged while on NR, so it is hard to be causality-confident. 

 

 

@sthira I note you mentioned taking quercitin during your fast, did you observe an increase in detox symptoms? I added it to the second day of a 2-day fast and seemed to experience more headaches and achiness that I'd normally have anticipated, though I've been a rather lapse in fasting over the last 6 months.  

 

OT:  I would add that I have found that fasting to be enormously beneficial and felt very rejuvenated under it but I too wouldn't agree it made me look youthful, I was pretty gaunt, perhaps the fasting mimic diet will forestall facial fat lost for fasters. For this woman it worked well , a restoration of youth - although she is pregnant in the final video and appears the right side of forty!

 

After watching the Longo video posted by prophets, I was reminded of a study on rats with spinal chord injury where the EODF group demonstrated recovery above ad libitum groups, unlike the CR group. Separately, for the same injury, the ketogenic diet was shown to be of benefit.

 

Reading on Wikipedia about CR proponent Roy Walford, referenced in another Longo talk, it appears CR accelerates ALS in mouse models but the  ketogenic diet slows the diet, with no comparative IF - which, with the muscle shrinking properties of fasting, one would imagine be naturally problematic in later stages at least of the disease.

 

Both would appear to rather support Longo's claim that CR represses regeneration.

 

Very OT but for a bit of balance a paper which demonstrated the protective effects of calorie restriction against cortical injury

Edited by ambivalent, 16 April 2017 - 11:12 AM.

[Andey]

There is no reason to over complicate things. Some need to be very young for his face to look good while skinny.
Aged indivudual quickly add up decade in appearance when go lower then 12% fat. And even if you gain extra weight later chances are that your face dont regain much of fatty tissue that gives that puffy younger look.

I think the same is happening for me. I'm not losing weight from fasting though, just calories in < out, I've lost 12 lbs very slowly over the past few months, but I go through a lot of refeeds. I'm also taking vitamin D and K and using the sauna to boost growth hormone. Yet apparently that's not enough. The question is how to get back that baby fat on the face and hands while keeping it off my belly I guess. Is that where brown adipose tissue comes in?

This is way off topic at this point but this thread went there a long time ago.

Check my previous post. I did write it to cover this question after all!
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=812287

Basically the stuff woman rub on their boobs to make them bigger does so by increasing adipose (fat) cell proliferation and cell size, so should work on old gaunt faces.
All these creams contain fenugreek, or its active ingredient/s, as one of the ingredients.
It's also a telomerase activator, so can be taken orally, but increases estrogen levels.
Further info is linked in the previous link:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=808997
I get the impression you/we're in too much of a panic/hurry to properly read these links..?
You're not alone here, but people very often do themselves a disservice by grabbing onto just one straw like Senolytics, or Nicotinamide Riboside, or whatever, rather than try and grasp the big picture.

This guy picked up on the causes of aging and worked out a bloody good preventative stack very quickly:
http://www.longecity...dation-targets/
Its a good place to start to quickly understand the 'damage' theory of aging IMHO.
For the 'programmed' theory; look into Heat Shock Proteins (HSP) for a start.

The rationale behind massaging breasts is to increase prolactine production. Its a natural response and I even saw instruction to not touch breasts, especially nipples a day before blood test. Prolactin works well in that regard just look at woman during and after pregnancy. Massage oil is not neccesary for this, its just a way to move money from one pocket to another. Are you really sure that men in this thread need bigger breasts ?

[Logic]

 

 

 

There is no reason to over complicate things. Some need to be very young for his face to look good while skinny.
Aged indivudual quickly add up decade in appearance when go lower then 12% fat. And even if you gain extra weight later chances are that your face dont regain much of fatty tissue that gives that puffy younger look.

I think the same is happening for me. I'm not losing weight from fasting though, just calories in < out, I've lost 12 lbs very slowly over the past few months, but I go through a lot of refeeds. I'm also taking vitamin D and K and using the sauna to boost growth hormone. Yet apparently that's not enough. The question is how to get back that baby fat on the face and hands while keeping it off my belly I guess. Is that where brown adipose tissue comes in?

This is way off topic at this point but this thread went there a long time ago.

Check my previous post. I did write it to cover this question after all!
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=812287

Basically the stuff woman rub on their boobs to make them bigger does so by increasing adipose (fat) cell proliferation and cell size, so should work on old gaunt faces.
All these creams contain fenugreek, or its active ingredient/s, as one of the ingredients.
It's also a telomerase activator, so can be taken orally, but increases estrogen levels.
Further info is linked in the previous link:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=808997
I get the impression you/we're in too much of a panic/hurry to properly read these links..?
You're not alone here, but people very often do themselves a disservice by grabbing onto just one straw like Senolytics, or Nicotinamide Riboside, or whatever, rather than try and grasp the big picture.

This guy picked up on the causes of aging and worked out a bloody good preventative stack very quickly:
http://www.longecity...dation-targets/
Its a good place to start to quickly understand the 'damage' theory of aging IMHO.
For the 'programmed' theory; look into Heat Shock Proteins (HSP) for a start.

The rationale behind massaging breasts is to increase prolactine production. Its a natural response and I even saw instruction to not touch breasts, especially nipples a day before blood test. Prolactin works well in that regard just look at woman during and after pregnancy. Massage oil is not neccesary for this, its just a way to move money from one pocket to another. Are you really sure that men in this thread need bigger breasts ?

 

 

???! 

Either you are joking or you misunderstood what I was trying to impart completely?

The post is about rubbing creams, designed to boost adipose cell proliferation and/or cell size, onto the affected areas of the face, to avoid and/or repair hollow eyes and sunken cheeks etc.
Such creams are ready made and can be purchased, but are generally sold for the purpose of increasing breast size, not fixing gaunt faces.

Some of these ingredients can also be taken orally, but then wont have the targeted effect that rubbing a cream on the areas where you want more fat would.
I specifically mentioned Fenugreek as it is known to have telomerase activating properties, as well as a proliferative and/or cell size enlarging effect on adipose cells.
Fenugreek also has estrogenic and IIRC testosterone boosting effects, so its a good idea to research the different molecules that constitute Fenugreek to see what does what.

Then perhaps we can find concentrates of the molecules with the effects we desire, while avoiding those that dont...
I am not up to speed on the different constituents of Fenugreek and their effects, so everyone should do their own research on this and post in the relevant thread.

I recommend caution and some study of the supplied links to make sure any creams bought do in fact contain the ingredients, proven by research, to have these desired effects, as this segment of the market is probably crawling with hucksters.

My comment in the linked 'face and skin' thread saying that only I knew the special technique required to massage these creams into boobs was a joke!  

Edited by Logic, 16 April 2017 - 02:33 PM.

[sthira]

@sthira I note you mentioned taking quercitin during your fast, did you observe an increase in detox symptoms? I added it to the second day of a 2-day fast and seemed to experience more headaches and achiness that I'd normally have anticipated, though I've been a rather lapse in fasting over the last 6 months.

I didn't experience headaches and achiness; but since I haven't reported here my experience with D+Q+F, here's what I have to share.

I was on day five day of a five day fast when I experimented, so already feeling my typical high and low energy levels.

Background: I've fasted a lot over many years -- short, medium, and extended fasts, often in combo with calorie restriction. I document everything I eat on Cronometer, measure and weigh my food, try to hit daily RDAs, and supplement what I lack (B12, D). I eat a diet of green vegetables, legumes, olive oil, nuts, seeds, berries, and I eat no meat, grains, or junk food or beverage (coffee with dairy and occasional sour diesel are my sins). I take no medications. I exercise my ass off because of my line of work, and I'm in constant states of training and resting. My body is littered with the stereotypical dance injuries of redundancy.

So I'm attuned to how my body reacts. But I'm unable to regularly blood test -- a mistake -- which I would love to do every other month, or at least quarterly. Without blood tests, I'm just guessing at stuff, so all this you'll take with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I tried 70 mg of dasatinib as delivered in this group buy, and 400 mg of EMIQ ("Natural Factors" brand) at 6pm on Friday. I waited six hours, then repeated the same two compounds at midnight, then I slept eight hours as usual.

So my total was 140/mg D, 800/mg EMIQ, on day five of a fast (which wasn't water only because I drink coffee with small amounts of dairy all days). I wasn't supplementing with any blood thinners, no aspirin or fish oil.

When I awoke, I felt weak. Like I had no bones. This weakness was a weakness different and stronger than typical fasting weakness. I wanted to stay in bed all day, but no, couldn't. So out of bed, I dragged onto the street, into the subway, and all was this was tiring. I took an easy, restorative yoga class -- basically just lying around for two hours on a mat with props and pillows and stretching my fascia, controlled breathing, a cooing teacher, classical piano, candlelights, incense -- all this nonsense I found exhausting.

So after the D+Q + F experience I refed as normally after five days off the eating train (vegetable green smoothies) and I went back to bed, slept the day away, I had no interest in doing anything or seeing anyone, I felt depressed, anxious and tired, a little melodramatic panicky (oh shit what did I take...) then I awoke the next morning, and resumed breaking the fast. Now I'm back to normal now bounce right back.

The D+Q experience was profound because it added so much perceived non-placebo weakness to my day. I hope this doesn't sound like hyperbole, but I gained an entirely new respect for people who are struck down by cancer and who must take harsh cell killing chemicals. It must be hell. How do they do it? Man... and dasatinib is mild?

Respect. Empathy. Or I'm a wimp!

I wish I could offer blood test results, something, some indication my effort killed senescent cells. But after one day, I feel nothing different -- no skin, weight, or energy changes. Maybe any benefits or detriments to this shit happen later, in days or weeks to come. Meanwhile, I may try another D+Q experiment again in a few months, based on what others here report, and whatever more new information is revealed to us from on high.

I'm torn about whether fasting should or should not be added to the DQ mix, and I read that Longo is currently testing senolytics with FMD, but so far his lab has found no additive benefits fasting may bring to senolytic excursions.

Please be careful.

As Logic wrote above, dasatinib isn't like taking a multivitamin. It's a serious mfing cancer drug with consequences.

[Logic]

@sthira I note you mentioned taking quercitin during your fast, did you observe an increase in detox symptoms? I added it to the second day of a 2-day fast and seemed to experience more headaches and achiness that I'd normally have anticipated, though I've been a rather lapse in fasting over the last 6 months.  

 

This effect is probably due to Q killing off virii and/or infected cells.  (I dont recall if it has any effect on bacteria)
The same virii that stop senescent cells from dying off in the 1st place..!
Virii inject their own DNA into the DNA strand your cell/s; changing it into a factory for more virrii.
At the same time the virus will modify this hard won 'virus factory' to not be detected as a defective and/or senescent cell, to avoid it being taken out by the immune system.

 

Proof of Querciten's effect/s and why, in large part, its and effective senolytic:
https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8

ie:  

Medications like Bavituximab and DRACO which kill of vast swathes of such pathologically modified cells can be considered the most targeted and effective senolytics 'available'.
I expected a spate of research and a clamouring for group buys of these drugs, but somehow this nugget of information seems to have flown right over everyone's heads..!?

ie:  I been sitting here waiting for someone to pick up on this since I first posted it......!?

Someone?  Anyone!??  Heeeelp! I feel so lonely here!

[Nate-2004]

Thanks sthira. I wasn't aware of EMIQ till now. I took around 3000 to 3500mg of straight quercetin since I'd read somewhere that we absorb maybe 10% of whatever is taken. I'm on my experimental last round for today only at a higher dosage of D and Q. 

 

Let us know how you feel in a week or so.

 

What did you think of the re-feed suggestion?

[sthira]

Thanks sthira. I wasn't aware of EMIQ till now. I took around 3000 to 3500mg of straight quercetin since I'd read somewhere that we absorb maybe 10% of whatever is taken. I'm on my experimental last round for today only at a higher dosage of D and Q.

Let us know how you feel in a week or so.

What did you think of the re-feed suggestion?

I understand the bioavailability of Quercetin is reportedly poor. Does the jumped up manipulated shit improve pk? I doubt anyone knows.

If by refeeding suggestions, you mean Longo's publications, yes, this is what I've been doing since mid 2015. Fasting, refeeding, fasting, refeeding. Recall that the two CR macaque studies showed doubtful lifespan extension, so I've decided to follow Longo's approach (substituting his FMD with straight up fasting). Is it age defying? I seriously doubt it. Is it healthy? I'm betting the ranch on it until something better dawns upon us.

[Fafner55]

 

Thanks sthira. I wasn't aware of EMIQ till now. I took around 3000 to 3500mg of straight quercetin since I'd read somewhere that we absorb maybe 10% of whatever is taken. I'm on my experimental last round for today only at a higher dosage of D and Q.

Let us know how you feel in a week or so.

What did you think of the re-feed suggestion?

I understand the bioavailability of Quercetin is reportedly poor. Does the jumped up manipulated shit improve pk? I doubt anyone knows.

If by refeeding suggestions, you mean Longo's publications, yes, this is what I've been doing since mid 2015. Fasting, refeeding, fasting, refeeding. Recall that the two CR macaque studies showed doubtful lifespan extension, so I've decided to follow Longo's approach (substituting his FMD with straight up fasting). Is it age defying? I seriously doubt it. Is it healthy? I'm betting the ranch on it until something better dawns upon us.

 

 

It is reasonable to characterize something that stimulates regeneration as "age defying".

"Fasting-mimicking diet promotes Ngn3-driven β-cell regeneration to reverse diabetes" (2017) http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

[Nate-2004]

It is reasonable to characterize something that stimulates regeneration as "age defying".

"Fasting-mimicking diet promotes Ngn3-driven β-cell regeneration to reverse diabetes" (2017) http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

 

 

 

I've not read anything about the FMD but when I looked it up just now I saw that it was some patented (I absolutely hate patents) thing that doesn't share any information about what is done and how it is done. Anybody want to share?

Edited by Nate-2004, 16 April 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[Fafner55]

 

It is reasonable to characterize something that stimulates regeneration as "age defying".

"Fasting-mimicking diet promotes Ngn3-driven β-cell regeneration to reverse diabetes" (2017) http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

 

 

 

I've not read anything about the FMD but when I looked it up just now I saw that it was some patented (I absolutely hate patents) thing that doesn't share any information about what is done and how it is done. Anybody want to share?

 

 

1. http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2015/06/26/one-week-two-innovations-in-aging-and-health/
2. “A Periodic Diet that Mimics Fasting Promotes Multi-System Regeneration, Enhanced Cognitive Performance, and Healthspan” (2015) http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00224-7
3. “A Diet Mimicking Fasting Promotes Regeneration and Reduces Autoimmunity and Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms” (2016) https://prolonfmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/cell-press-may-2016.pdf
4. http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2017/02/24/fasting-mimicking-diet-can-you-make-it-a-habit/
5. “Fasting-mimicking diet and markers/risk factors for aging, diabetes, cancer, and cardiovascular disease” (2017) http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/377/eaai8700
6. “Fasting-mimicking diet may reverse diabetes” (2017) https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-02-fasting-mimicking-diet-reverse-diabetes.html
7. "Fasting-mimicking diet promotes Ngn3-driven β-cell regeneration to reverse diabetes" (2017) http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7
8. https://thequantifiedbody.net/fast-mimicking-diet/
9. http://agingadvice.org/FMD-Recipes.html

[Nate-2004]

So basically it breaks down to:

 

2 avocados per day for 5 days (2.5 on the first day), then eat normally for the rest of the month?

 

I really wish I could take that kind of torture. Why is everything good for you so miserable?

 

I do love this quote from that first article:

 

The search for drugs that extend human life has been held back bureaucratically by the FDA’s  outdated idea of what a drug is for.  A drug can only be recognized or approved if it treats a disease, and aging is not a disease.

Edited by Nate-2004, 16 April 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[ambivalent]

This is the FMD from the company Longo part founded. I believe he quoted around 800-1100 calories a day.

 

http://l-nutra.com/

[sthira]

This is the FMD from the company Longo part founded. I believe he quoted around 800-1100 calories a day.

http://l-nutra.com/

Just opinion here, but I think Longo's FMD aims to strike a balance between triggering the benefits of fasting, keeping fasting safe while attempting to minimize the discomforts and dangers. This may be especially true for cancer patients who may already be struggling against unwanted weight loss.

Also FMD is easily analyzed and replicated by conscious, controlled eating -- effectively severe, short term CR -- smaller portions of raw or steamed vegetables, e.g., a few nuts (?15/g or so), some unsweetened beverages like herbal teas, maybe some olive oil, avocado.... choose healthier fats over carbs to perhaps sustain the resting program that fasting offers, and ketosis, what signals the system to lower CRP, insulin, IGF-1...

Then after five to seven days return to better eating habits like the Mediterranean Diet.

FMD might also game food deprivation into play as a respected medical intervention for cancer patients -- billing companies can create, package, sell, and charge up the medical system.

Thanks sthira. I wasn't aware of EMIQ till now. I took around 3000 to 3500mg of straight quercetin since I'd read somewhere that we absorb maybe 10% of whatever is taken. I'm on my experimental last round for today only at a higher dosage of D and Q.

Let us know how you feel in a week or so.

What did you think of the re-feed suggestion?

I understand the bioavailability of Quercetin is reportedly poor. Does the jumped up manipulated shit improve pk? I doubt anyone knows.

If by refeeding suggestions, you mean Longo's publications, yes, this is what I've been doing since mid 2015. Fasting, refeeding, fasting, refeeding. Recall that the two CR macaque studies showed doubtful lifespan extension, so I've decided to follow Longo's approach (substituting his FMD with straight up fasting). Is it age defying? I seriously doubt it. Is it healthy? I'm betting the ranch on it until something better dawns upon us.

It is reasonable to characterize something that stimulates regeneration as "age defying".
"Fasting-mimicking diet promotes Ngn3-driven β-cell regeneration to reverse diabetes" (2017) http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

Yes, sorry for my confusing "age defying" characterization. My rough and evolving opinion is I think fasting is healthy (or else I wouldn't do it myself repeatedly); but I doubt it'll extend lifespan. I'd love to be proven wrong; Longo may be studying that hypothesis right now. IOW, are bouts of periodic fasting like FMD synergistic with bouts of periodic senolytics like DQ?

[Andey]

 

This is the FMD from the company Longo part founded. I believe he quoted around 800-1100 calories a day.

http://l-nutra.com/

Just opinion here, but I think Longo's FMD aims to strike a balance between triggering the benefits of fasting, keeping fasting safe while attempting to minimize the discomforts and dangers. This may be especially true for cancer patients who may already be struggling against unwanted weight loss.

Also FMD is easily analyzed and replicated by conscious, controlled eating -- effectively severe, short term CR -- smaller portions of raw or steamed vegetables, e.g., a few nuts (?15/g or so), some unsweetened beverages like herbal teas, maybe some olive oil, avocado.... choose healthier fats over carbs to perhaps sustain the resting program that fasting offers, and ketosis, what signals the system to lower CRP, insulin, IGF-1...

Then after five to seven days return to better eating habits like the Mediterranean Diet.

FMD might also game food deprivation into play as a respected medical intervention for cancer patients -- billing companies can create, package, sell, and charge up the medical system.

 

 

 

My takeaway from FMD is that some can(if he wants) to add some fats while fasting and dont compromise it. It also have added benefit of faster transition to ketosis.

I would say though that in my experience it have not helped with discomfort from fasting if anything it amplified it. 

 

P.S. This thread became Katamari Damacy type, if I were a moderator I would close it or the whole forum would collapse in one thread ))

[Nate-2004]

I took one last and final round of Dasatanib yesterday. 3 doses of 150mg with 4 doses at 1000mg (4000mg) of straight quercetin. I took no supplements the night before or the day of until bedtime.  I didn't fast or anything, not like I could successfully if I tried. 

 

About 6 hrs after the last dose, which was 1am. I took 375mg NR and a number of other things, honokiol, chamomile extract, curcumin (w/piperine), theanine, taurine, magnesium, fish oil.  I slept like a rock and overslept for work, luckily I work from home.

 

I feel groggy and my back hurts but always has for at least 12 years, after sleep. I also have a slight headache.

 

Anyway, I didn't feel anything bad though I did notice my fingers were very slightly blue under the nail at one point, but this has happened at other times as well. I'll report back about this in a week or so.

 

I have 9 grams left of the 10. I'm done with mine. It's being stored in a jar in the freezer.

[maxwatt]

...

I feel groggy and my back hurts but always has for at least 12 years, after sleep....

 

Off topic, but have you tried a new mattress?

[Nate-2004]

 

...

I feel groggy and my back hurts but always has for at least 12 years, after sleep....

 

Off topic, but have you tried a new mattress?

 

 

I've tried several different mattresses, there's no mattress in existence that helps with lower back pain, no matter what they advertise.

 

If there were an aeron mattress like my aeron chair, maybe, but they don't seem to be making one of those. 

 

I sleep on my side and back. While I'm asleep I have no control over that position, normally I wake up halfway between back and side and in pain, so getting back fully on my side with a pillow rammed up my crotch is the only way I can get rid of the pain, till I wake up again, pillow fallen out and me somewhere in between side and back. It's hopeless IMO, nobody can design a bed that covers all positions. I'd love an anti-gravity bed where you just sleep in a floating position.

[maxwatt]

ever try a water bed?

[Florian E.]

@Nate-2004

But, have you ever tried.... Aerobics ?! 

 

[Nate-2004]

I've tried literally *everything* people suggest *but* a water bed. My parents had one when I was a kid and I don't recall it being all that comfortable to sleep on. Probably the wrong thread to talk about lower back pain.

 

I exercise (HIIT) 4 times a week for 30 mins combined with full bodyweight calisthenics, I also use the sauna for 20 mins, sometimes twice back to back.

I do yoga style core building exercises after HIIT while stretching.

I have tried every mattress there is, I travel a lot too so I've been on a lot of different mattresses, none of which are any good. Sometimes I think I found one that works, but that only lasts a day.

 

The only thing that seems to relieve it for most of the day and sometimes even more days is hydrogen water combined with infrared light therapy.  The problem with the "therabulb" I got at first is that it eventually, after three weeks or so, started to burn my skin no matter how far away I set it. So I got this pad with a bunch of 660nm and 830nm LEDs on it that does the same job so far I think. This is just treatment though, not cure and not a root cause (sleeping in a bed) fix.  

 

That episode of Louis comes to mind where Louis CK goes to the doctor about his back pain and the doctor just tells him it's age, a loss of cartilage and collagen and the spine isn't designed well for upright walking. It was a funny episode but something along those lines.

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 18 April 2017 - 12:36 PM.

[mikey]

I've tried literally *everything* people suggest *but* a water bed. My parents had one when I was a kid and I don't recall it being all that comfortable to sleep on. Probably the wrong thread to talk about lower back pain.

 

I exercise (HIIT) 4 times a week for 30 mins combined with full bodyweight calisthenics, I also use the sauna for 20 mins, sometimes twice back to back.

I do yoga style core building exercises after HIIT while stretching.

I have tried every mattress there is, I travel a lot too so I've been on a lot of different mattresses, none of which are any good. Sometimes I think I found one that works, but that only lasts a day.

 

The only thing that seems to relieve it for most of the day and sometimes even more days is hydrogen water combined with infrared light therapy.  The problem with the "therabulb" I got at first is that it eventually, after three weeks or so, started to burn my skin no matter how far away I set it. So I got this pad with a bunch of 660nm and 830nm LEDs on it that does the same job so far I think. This is just treatment though, not cure and not a root cause (sleeping in a bed) fix.  

 

That episode of Louis comes to mind where Louis CK goes to the doctor about his back pain and the doctor just tells him it's age, a loss of cartilage and collagen and the spine isn't designed well for upright walking. It was a funny episode but something along those lines.

 

Dr. Frank Morris was handicapped with three crushed lumbar, did all kinds of therapies and nothing worked.

 

So, he worked out his own program for non-surgical treatment.

 

I am in the middle of his program and can say that it has contributed greatly to my goal of NOT having a triple fusion to resolve the cervical problem that I have. In other words, doing another thing that is considered to be "medically impossible" by the surgery vendors. I think that I will measure as being taller by the end of the program.

http://www.spinalstenosisanddisc.com/

 

I was 5'11" at 25 years of age.

 

I measured 5'9 3/4" last year at 62. I used a Teeter Hangup and took hydrolyzed collagen inconsistently for maybe a year and measured 5'10" a couple months ago, at 63 years of age. 

 

Regaining height is one consideration in an age-reversal program for those of us that have "shrunken," which is a normal part of aging. 

[DareDevil]

On an further Off Topic side note, I cured 5 inoperable crushed (not yet fused) lumbar discs with just a week's worth of Ostarine SARM pills. I went from being unable to sit up in bed to lifting luggage without pain. I can't vouch for anyone else's results but this fortunately worked for me.

 

Back On Topic (sort of) regarding what to take after Navitoclax lysis of senescent cells, I wanted to go to clinics for stem cell treatments but they cost up to 15000 euros in Ukraine, where they use the more potent embrionic stem cells.

 

This brought me to consider the following, a DIY home treatment using an IV catheter or butterfly perfusion needle and slowly infiltrating but only under the skin in a sub-Q infusion:

 

 

Bio Swiss Bio Celergen Stem Cell Injections

http://www.magic-pot...cell-injections

 

1 or 2 ampoules to be injected via IM or IV 2 to 3 times a week.

Contains:

 

Embryonic Stem Cells                     1250mg
Equiv to Stem Cell Extract                250mg
Thiamine Hydrochloride                    100mg
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride                   5mg
Cystein                                            0.5mg
Copper Peptide                                125mg
Glycine                                            3mg

 

Proteins
Myosin                                        22.5mg
Kinesin                                        250mcg
Collagen                                      50mg

 

Amino Acids
L-Lysine                                         3.5mg
L-Glutamine                                   3mg
L-Glutatione                                   120mg
L-Arginine                                      165mcg
L-Leucine                                       2mg
L-Alanine                                       1.5mg
L-Histanine                                    143mcg

 

Mineral
Calcium                                         15mg
Sodium                                          1mg
Potassium                                      250mcg
Iron                                               1mg
Zinc                                               1.35mg 

 

 

The substitution of Sub-Q for IV isn't as problematic as one might expect. It seems that they main issue is the quantity of liquid that can be infused, and the speed of infusion. Sub-Q is limited to 3 liters every 24 hours using 2 injection sites, whereas IV is less limited in volume and speed. Sub-Q reduces air bubble and septic risks also. Studies have shown that the results are pretty much identical when speed isn't an issue.

 

Hypodermoclysis: An Alternative Infusion Technique

   http://www.aafp.org/...1101/p1575.html

 

 

At 2 vials three times a week each infiltration would infuse 2500mg (2.5 grams) of Embryonic Stem Cells equivalent to 500mg of Stem Cell Extract.

 

 This puts it a fraction of the cost of clinical IV infusion of Embryonic Stem Cells done in the Ukraine. Would you know if this is way short of the benefits of the clinical infusions, or just a lesser amount at once? If this is viable we're at a positive breakthrough point for cost-effective anti-aging.

 

DareDevil

[Nate-2004]

Here is an update on my physical state after the big doses of Dasatanib & Quercetin on Sunday: 

 

I was a bit lethargic yesterday and Monday up until later in the evening last night when I hate a date. My mind felt pretty sharp on the date, at least till the alcohol kicked in. I had no hangover this morning despite having had more than two cocktails. Stayed out late. I am a bit tired this morning but that's all. No change with my lower back. I'm not noticing any real significant change yet but I'll give it a couple more days.

 

My face was looking horrible and old on Monday morning but this morning, after the last two days of hitting the gym, sauna and two back to back 20 min sessions in the sauna yesterday to boost GH, it's looking really good again. I am putting a fenugreek formula on my face at night. I'll post elsewhere on that after a couple weeks. I am also using red/infrared light on my face again. I assume it's probably good to boost GH/IGF-1 after a round of senolytics? This was discussed earlier and I don't recall the reasoning for keeping GH/IGF-1 low while taking them. So I also ordered more MK-677. Someone also suggested that GH is boosted with collagen at night.

 

Sorry for all the off-topic posts. Getting dinged a lot lately. Not a huge fan of the rating system. It'd be cool if you could just click something and have off topic posts turn into other threads. I'll start another thread here on lower back issues.

 

I'm interested in the Navitoclax but more so I'm interested in the new FOXO4 drug whenever we can gain access to that. I realize it's still in development and being tested on rats. We are all Dare Devils though. Do you think any of these researchers involved have tried it on themselves? If I were a researcher I'd do it.

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 19 April 2017 - 04:23 PM.

[sthira]

Thanks, Nate, your experiences are helpful and interesting. I do have some lower back pain advice for you since I lift my legs over my head for a living, so lower back and hip joint repetitive use problems are well known to me. But generally I don't think we primates were ever meant to be totally bipedal, exposing our hearts so defenselessly to any predator seems unusual in the animal kingdom. Mother Nature had no plan for our long lives after reproduction, I don't think.

I'm also of the opinion that we should boost IGF-1 and GH after playing around with senolytics. A way to increase stem cell production, as DD is search for above, also seems like part of the package. I've no experience whatsoever with peptides and sarms like MK-677. You've clearly found it beneficial?

[Nate-2004]

I do see a clear performance boost with MK-677 at the gym, especially in the area of muscle building (weights or bodyweight lifting). I can sort of see why you would want to boost GH after a round of senolytics so that's sort of why I'm doing it. I have a contact that's a reliable source, he only takes bitcoin though. People have lab tested his stuff as I recall, on reddit.

 

That's basically what the doctor said on Louis CK's show about lower back pain, we just weren't meant for this kind of thing for that long. I've been suffering from lower back pain since I was 29, so this is definitely not a problem of age. The only reason why I was hoping dasatinib would help with it was lowering inflammation. 

[sthira]

Well, you've only just now come off your DQ self trials. It could be that it'll take a few weeks or months for your body to figure the shit out.

Haha: Is This Some Serious BroSci Or WHAT?!?

But -- wild ass guess -- you killed some cells that were formerly spitting out some harsh inflammatory shit, and now your body's got to adjust to the new Nate. Maybe you'll awake one day and realize -- hey, my back pain is gone! That'd be fucking awesome...

[Rocket]

I do see a clear performance boost with MK-677 at the gym, especially in the area of muscle building (weights or bodyweight lifting). I can sort of see why you would want to boost GH after a round of senolytics so that's sort of why I'm doing it. I have a contact that's a reliable source, he only takes bitcoin though. People have lab tested his stuff as I recall, on reddit.

That's basically what the doctor said on Louis CK's show about lower back pain, we just weren't meant for this kind of thing for that long. I've been suffering from lower back pain since I was 29, so this is definitely not a problem of age. The only reason why I was hoping dasatinib would help with it was lowering inflammation.

Did you take a pre experiment blood test so you can look at pre and post bio markers?

I was looking at my last blood test which was a few weeks after D+Q and I noticed about a 15% increase in IGF1 over my baseline blood tests. I have tests going back about 2 years and my IGF1 was always a rock solid number when not on CJC1295 with DAC. I don't know if there is any correlation with this little spike and D+Q or not. All my blood tests are taken at nearly the same time of day and while fasting for 10 to 12h.

Maybe one of the "experts" can comment on this observation as potentially being due to clearing out senescent cells.

[Nate-2004]

 

I do see a clear performance boost with MK-677 at the gym, especially in the area of muscle building (weights or bodyweight lifting). I can sort of see why you would want to boost GH after a round of senolytics so that's sort of why I'm doing it. I have a contact that's a reliable source, he only takes bitcoin though. People have lab tested his stuff as I recall, on reddit.

That's basically what the doctor said on Louis CK's show about lower back pain, we just weren't meant for this kind of thing for that long. I've been suffering from lower back pain since I was 29, so this is definitely not a problem of age. The only reason why I was hoping dasatinib would help with it was lowering inflammation.

Did you take a pre experiment blood test so you can look at pre and post bio markers?

I was looking at my last blood test which was a few weeks after D+Q and I noticed about a 15% increase in IGF1 over my baseline blood tests. I have tests going back about 2 years and my IGF1 was always a rock solid number when not on CJC1295 with DAC. I don't know if there is any correlation with this little spike and D+Q or not. All my blood tests are taken at nearly the same time of day and while fasting for 10 to 12h.

Maybe one of the "experts" can comment on this observation as potentially being due to clearing out senescent cells.

 

 

The only biomarker I took was blood pressure, which has been a bit high on the systolic but in the couple weeks prior to taking D it was consistently a good 119 over 70. So now I have nothing to compare other than subjective feeling. I'm fine with that even though ideally I would have liked to have gotten some blood work. I could compare the upcoming blood work I have tomorrow to what I got last year.