731 replies to this topic

[Logic]

 

Hi Mikey,
 
I am new at this so don't take my suggestion as a rule to follow. I tried Quercetin with the smallest pharmaceutically available dosage of Dasatinib called Sprycel and it was in 10mg doses. I took two per day making my dosage 20mg. I noticed it having a definite positive effect and I will therefore start my own protocol, unless I hear otherwise from board members here, with 30mg daily of Dasatinib and 300mg daily of Quercetin. Others may propose entirely different proticols. But I think this is new enough that we don't have a lot of dosage data to work with. Starting small and working your way up seems wisest.
 
DareDevil

 
As to Dasatinib dosage - I wish I had retained the data - I can't find it now and I'm rushed.
I came up with about 300 mg for my body weight, 185 lbs.
 
So, I've taken 300 mg with about ten times as much quercitin, two times, spaced a month apart -- but as liposomal quercitin, and noticed tremendous age-reversal effects, this last time the most.
 
AND -- more importantly I had two friends independently, and without any prompting on my part, remark that my "hair was getting darker..." 

I have noticed a distinct diminishing of the depth of wrinkles on my face.

 

 
 
Here is my post based on the study/s that started all this:
 

From the study:
"...A single dose of D+Q (D: 5 mg/kg body weight and Q: 50 mg/kg by oral gavage
here and in the following studies)..."
(Mice)
http://onlinelibrary.../acel.12344/pdf

HED (mg/kg) = Animal Dose (mg/kg) x [Animal Km / Human Km]*
Human Km = 37
Mouse Km = 3
Rat Km = 6

So
HED for D is:  0.4054054054054054 mg/kg = 28.4mg/70kg human
HED for Q is:  4.054054054054054 mg/kg = 283.8 mg/70kg human

 

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=722108

IMHO that pretty much sews of the Dasatinib dosage question and the study found the effect to be permanent, so taking more than 0.4054054054054054 mg/kg (multiply this # by your weight in kg) for one or 2 days in a row, once every 6 months would be superfluous IMHO?
 

There are some questions surrounding the bioavailability of Quercetin however, that could use more research.
Here is a link to a site search for 'dasatinib quercetin dosage study':

https://cse.google.c...in dosage study

 

I'd love nothing more than to research this, rather than organise both this and a 4th Nilotinib group buy...
(Nilotinib also has some very interesting senescent cell killing and anti fibrotic properties, well worth researching, IMHO)

 

So; Yes I am emphasising the need for people to make the time to do some research!

 

[Nate-2004]

I'm skeptical of the claims on age reversal but intrigued and hopeful. I was surprised at the 300mg dosage as earlier in the thread I could swear it was supposed to be about 32mg for my weight, 180 lbs or ~81kg.

 

Dasatanib targets senescent cells in fat from what I understand and Quercetin, senescent cells in the endothelium. That leaves a lot of other senescent cells untouched from what I understand. 

[Logic]

I'm skeptical of the claims on age reversal but intrigued and hopeful. I was surprised at the 300mg dosage as earlier in the thread I could swear it was supposed to be about 32mg for my weight, 180 lbs or ~81kg.

 

Dasatanib targets senescent cells in fat from what I understand and Quercetin, senescent cells in the endothelium. That leaves a lot of other senescent cells untouched from what I understand. 

 

Dont confuse the Dasatinib dosage and the Quercetin dosage Nate

 

The Quercetin dosage, based on that study is around 10X the Dasatinib dosage.

 

For D:  Multiply your weight in kg by 0.405405
For Q: Multiply your weight in kg by  4.05405  (NB that this # is open to discussion, as stated)

 

The doses work out to around 30 mg of D and 300mg of Q for an average sized person.

 

I dont think its necessary to take this dose for more than a day or two, once every six months?  Probably longer?

Individuals will, hopefully do their own research and choose different doses. Hopefully!
Mikey is known for 'going BIG!!!'    Which adds another useful 'data point' for us.

 

Also; the older you are the more noticeable the effect will be, but an 'ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' so not seeing any difference now might well translate into not needing to see any difference later if you get my meaning. 

Edited by Logic, 01 December 2016 - 08:14 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Haha I'm aware of Mikey's being prone to "going big" as you call it.  I'm skeptical of his anecdotal reports. I actually thought that was you who'd said that, the e-mails I get for the thread aren't as well formatted to show that it was him, not you.

 

While I might talk about the science of biogerontology, I don't really talk to anyone about my self-experimentation or this message board for that matter.  I'm sort of waiting for people to comment on my youth without any prompt or being primed in any way, preferably people I just met. Last night I got a comment when talking to a guy I had just met, sitting next to me at the theater where I perform. We were talking about the gym and how I'd just injured my shoulder, and that I was upset about the loss of gains because I'd just begun to recover from the last injury and "I was lifting like I had in my mid 30's". He reacted really surprised saying "wait, how old are you??" I said 42, he's like "wow, have you always looked young for your age?". I said "haha thanks, maybe, I dunno". Left it at that. It was encouraging because that's the first of two comments I've gotten very recently in the past 2 years. I used to get that a lot, then it stopped till recently. It's encouraging but I won't be confident about it till I get a few more unsolicited remarks from strangers and friends who have no idea what I'm doing (the vast majority of them).

 

As for dosage, I was under the impression, based on the analysis at Examine.com, that Quercetin dosage had to be at least 800mg for a 150lb person. I normally take 1200mg because I'm 180, twice a day. I only took it for a few weeks and then stopped. 

 

The dasatinib should be 32mg at your formula. I may round that off a little higher at 50, for 2 days. I'll do the quercetin again with it just to be sure.

Edited by Nate-2004, 01 December 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[mikey]

 

I'm skeptical of the claims on age reversal but intrigued and hopeful. I was surprised at the 300mg dosage as earlier in the thread I could swear it was supposed to be about 32mg for my weight, 180 lbs or ~81kg.

 

Dasatanib targets senescent cells in fat from what I understand and Quercetin, senescent cells in the endothelium. That leaves a lot of other senescent cells untouched from what I understand. 

 

Dont confuse the Dasatinib dosage and the Quercetin dosage Nate

 

The Quercetin dosage, based on that study is around 10X the Dasatinib dosage.

 

For D:  Multiply your weight in kg by 0.405405
For Q: Multiply your weight in kg by  4.05405  (NB that this # is open to discussion, as stated)

 

The doses work out to around 30 mg of D and 300mg of Q for an average sized person.

 

I dont think its necessary to take this dose for more than a day or two, once every six months?  Probably longer?

Individuals will, hopefully do their own research and choose different doses. Hopefully!
Mikey is known for 'going BIG!!!'    Which adds another useful 'data point' for us.

 

Also; the older you are the more noticeable the effect will be, but an 'ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' so not seeing any difference now might well translate into not needing to see any difference later if you get my meaning. 

 

That is true. Going big is Mikey!

, 

For nutrients, my long-term field of study, I was always a "more is better" kind of person, until about 5 years ago. More about that soon enough.

 

This is because nutrients deliver their optimum health effects at doses that are much higher than the RDA's or Daily Value.

 

The RDA's were just calculations of what dosage of a nutrient would keep us from getting a nutrient deficiency syndrome that could kill us, like scurvy, caused by a vitamin C deficiency.

 

RDAs are just survival doses. They are just doses that keep us from getting sick and dying.

 

They are not doses where we thrive.

 

For instance, over 20,000+ dose comparison studies, demonstrate that there is an optimal dosage range for various vitamins, minerals and antioxidants.

 

The RDA for vitamin C is currently 60 mg.

 

Studies of vitamin C show that doses of vitamin C that have the potential to optimize various components of overall health, like bone density, begin at about 1,000 mg per day. (This is logical because of genetic programming.)

 

A three-year study showed that postmenopausal women that took supplements that contained between 1,000 mg and 5,000 mg of vitamin C per day experienced 5% greater bone density than women who took 500 mg or less per day.
Morton DJ, et al. Vitamin C supplement use and bone mineral density in postmenopausal women. J Bone Min Res 2001;16(1):135-140.

 

Another study found that vitamin C doses of 250 mg to 500 mg per day produced no effect on reduction of cold symptoms, while doses from 1,000 mg to 6,000 mg per day decreased the duration of cold symptom an average of 21%.
Hemila H, et al. Vitamin C and the common cold: a retrospective analysis of Chalmers’ review. J Am Coll Nutr 1995;14(2):116-123.

 

One of the first human studies that demonstrated increased human lifespans, showed that men who took 800 mg per day of Vitamin C lived six years longer than men who consumed the 60 mg per day that is the Daily Value.
Enstron, et al. Vitamin C intake and mortality among a sample of the United States population. Epidemiology 1992 May;3(3):194-202.

 

So, I took the highest potencies of all the nutrients that I took.

 

Alpha lipoic acid (ALA) had just become commonly available, and it's a fantastic antioxidant, in many respects.

 

So, for a half a dozen years I took 600 mg a day.

 

Oddly, I found that my TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) was increasing. This is an indication that my body is having a hard time converting T4 to T3.

 

Over a 5-year period my TSH rose to be over the top of normal, at which point my doctor said that I should be taking Armour thyroid. So I did take 1/2 grain twice a day.

 

As is my bent, I stumbled on a German study that showed that ALA inhibited the conversion of T4 to T3 because the ALA is the right antioxidant to inhibit the oxidative activity that happens for the conversion to occur.

 

At any rate, even the "safest" and a highly beneficial antioxidant has an optimal dose and apparently a U-curve, where too little or too much could result in health concerns.

 

So, knowing formulation, I usually take two when a label says take one.

 

The directions on a bottle are there because of FDA's ultra-conservative labeling regulations and then legal concerns.

 

Most nutrients and botanicals work better when the dose is higher - up to a certain point.

 

As to Dasatinib, I didn't notice anything when I took low doses. 

 

I didn't apparently suffer any ill consequences from taking 300 mg, twice, spaced out by about a month.

 

But having two friends tell me that my hair was darker as I am watching wrinkles literally fade compels me to be curious about what an optimal dose of Dasatinib really is.

 

Going big is Mikey! 

[mikey]

Haha I'm aware of Mikey's being prone to "going big" as you call it.  I'm skeptical of his anecdotal reports. I actually thought that was you who'd said that, the e-mails I get for the thread aren't as well formatted to show that it was him, not you.

 

While I might talk about the science of biogerontology, I don't really talk to anyone about my self-experimentation or this message board for that matter.  I'm sort of waiting for people to comment on my youth without any prompt or being primed in any way, preferably people I just met. Last night I got a comment when talking to a guy I had just met, sitting next to me at the theater where I perform. We were talking about the gym and how I'd just injured my shoulder, and that I was upset about the loss of gains because I'd just begun to recover from the last injury and "I was lifting like I had in my mid 30's". He reacted really surprised saying "wait, how old are you??" I said 42, he's like "wow, have you always looked young for your age?". I said "haha thanks, maybe, I dunno". Left it at that. It was encouraging because that's the first of two comments I've gotten very recently in the past 2 years. I used to get that a lot, then it stopped till recently. It's encouraging but I won't be confident about it till I get a few more unsolicited remarks from strangers and friends who have no idea what I'm doing (the vast majority of them).

 

As for dosage, I was under the impression, based on the analysis at Examine.com, that Quercetin dosage had to be at least 800mg for a 150lb person. I normally take 1200mg because I'm 180, twice a day. I only took it for a few weeks and then stopped. 

 

The dasatinib should be 32mg at your formula. I may round that off a little higher at 50, for 2 days. I'll do the quercetin again with it just to be sure.

 

I know the feeling, Nate.

 

I'm 63 and someone guessed that I was 38 last month.

 

I've had people think that I was in my '40's, but 38 ?!?!?

 

As to being skeptical my anecdotes, that's all they are is anecdotes.

 

And we should all be skeptical of not just anecdotes, but placebo-controlled studies, too.

Right?

[Logic]

I like that: 'Going big is Mikey!'   

And it seems to be working for you.
Researching the optimal dosages of the essential nutrients is something I have never gotten round to.

Nate:
IIRC you should look into Sitosterols for that pulled muscle.
http://ergo-log.com is a good, handy site for finding gym related info especially.

Dasatinib Group Buy

Things are looking good for the buy: Lots of people have sent me their addresses etc, but not everyone on the list.
I hope the higher price hasnt scared people away?
The supplier's excuse is that I missed their 'special introductory offer' on 500 grams of D.
Ye right!  If you look around the web; word is out and there are many sites selling D at vastly inflated prices, but selling, due to the small, infrequent amounts required. Thats why prices are up!

I have to leave for Johannesburg to get a back acter and get it into Mozambique with all the border crossing paperwork and bribes etc.
I'll be back on Monday or Tuesday and update the list and send out costings etc.
I hope to get us all D by Xmass! 

 

 

[Valijon]

I've been watching this thread for some time. I'm interested in knowing the new prices. Unfortunately,word always gets out. I've been taking Quercetin after learning about it here. I'm eyeballing the drug trials of rapamycin. There are suppliers of this on the Internet also. I'm concerned prices could go sky high for any proven effective antiaging treatments.

[Nate-2004]

Nate:
IIRC you should look into Sitosterols for that pulled muscle.
http://ergo-log.com is a good, handy site for finding gym related info especially.

 

 

Thanks, I updated my situation here.

[Longevitarian]

Dasitinib Group Buy. By Logic

SearchingForAnswers 20 grams
Niner 10
Logic 10
Fafner55 10
mikey 5
Cosmicalstorm 5
Rarefied 10
ClarkSims 20
Nate-2004 10
ceridwen 5
prophets 5
Authentic 5
mkp6019 5
DareDevil 50
Captain Obvious 5-10
LookingForTime 5
Ygdrasil 10
Vantika 50
Haste 5
Katkay 10
Fred_CALICO 10

Total 265 -270

Price:
The price was not as low as I anticipated:
Best I could get @ 255 grams is $ 6.46/g
Shipping: $ 0.12
Testing: $ 2.35
Total: $ 8.93 (Excluding Paypal Fees (0.5% + $0.30 IIRC) and postage from the lab which varies depending on your location. ($ 6.80 in the USA )

Order and Payment procedure:

• PM me your name and postal address and confirm the amount in grams of D you would like.
• Optional info: Your Email address as an alternate means of communication and a phone # for USPS should you be away when they deliver.

I will then send you a costing that includes the PayPal fee and Postage and my PayPal details.

Once all the funds are received I will place the order and pay the supplier.
Shipping to the lab takes about a week. (It may take longer at this time of year)
The good doctor at the testing lab 'marches to the tune of his own drum' so it can take anything from 5 days to 2 weeks for him to do the testing, aliquoting (Lab Conditions) and postage.

Amongst more general updates, I will post a redacted copy of the mass spectrography lab report here, as well as send the full report to Niner for confirmation.
(For those that are new; Niner used to be our trusted mentor and moderator here, before it was required he pay for membership!? He still is to my mind.
Check his post count and TY score here: http://www.longecity...ser/4238-niner/ )

I will PM or Email you your tracking # when I get it from the lab.

I have done 3 group buys (4th in progress) for Nilotinib so far and due to some diligent research, have not had any issues (customs etc) posting anywhere in the world. (touch wood)

Disclaimer:
I am not a doctor, nor do I claim to have any formal medical background.
I am not liable, either expressly or in an implied manner, nor claim any responsibility for any physical or emotional problems that may occur directly or indirectly from the use of any supplement or medication, or advice on this forum.
Products currently covered by valid patents are offered for R&D use in accordance with (i) 35 USC 271(e)+A13(1) in the U.S.; (ii) Section 69.1 of Japanese Patent Law in Japan; (iii) Section 11, No. 2 of the German Patent Act of 1981 in Germany; (iv) Section 60, Paragraph 5b of the U.K. Patents Act of 1977 in the U.K.; (v) Section 68B of the Patents Act of 1953 in New Zealand; (vi) such related legislation and/or case law as may be or become applicable in the aforementioned countries; and (vii) such similar laws and rules as may apply in various other countries. In the European Union, equivalent exemptions are allowed under the terms of EC Directives 2001/82/EC (as amended by Directive 2004/28/EC) and 2001/83/EC (as amended by Directives 2002/98/EC, 2003/63/EC, 2004/24/EC and 2004/27/EC). Any patent infringement issue and resulting liability is solely at buyer's risk.

Please read the warnings and contraindications etc carefully before beginning any research with Dasatinib or any other concomitant medication or supplement:
http://www.sprycel.com/side-effects
https://www.accessda...021986s7s8lbl.p

[Longevitarian]

Fifty grams of D , tested , for me please? What would be new price for that amount?
Also interested in nilotinib. Anybody is forming a group.

[SearchingForAnswers]

I'm still seeing 20 on the summary but I want 10, as previously indicated.

[stefan_001]

its a small study but quite interesting in-vitro results with dasatinib on rat hepatocytes

 

http://ir.library.or...ndle/1957/59748

These findings corroborate with our findings regarding an accumulation of senescent cells in the liver, and suggests that the liver undergoes an inflammatory stress. We then examined a possible treatment for cellular senescence: the drug known as dasatinib.

Edited by stefan_001, 06 December 2016 - 12:53 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Where are we at on this? 

[Rocket]

Logic - Sent email per directions. Add me to your list.

 

 

[Logic]

Hi everyone.

I'm back but having a hell of a time finding a collating the promised results of Nilotinib research I have been Emailed and PMd.

Note to self:  Set up a separate Email acc for collecting results so you don't have to spend 2 days sifting trough 100s of Emails, idiot!!!  

 

Some quick answers to the posted questions:

 

Price: $ 8.93 (Excluding Paypal Fees (0.5% + $0.30 IIRC) and postage from the lab which varies depending on your location. ($ 6.80 in the USA )

I will try to negotiate a better price based on the new total, but the steps seem to be 250, 500, 1000 grams.  Still worth a try though and the testing cost comes down.

 

Longevitarian:  The Nilotinib buy is on atm and I am currently collecting funds for it.
$ 10.15 per gram excluding Paypal & Postage.

 

Soz SearchingForAnswers.  I'll correct that in the morning and reply to PMs  etc.  Its 2.40 AM here!

 

'Yawn!'

Good night!

 

 

[Vantika]

Hey, Logic.

 

I'll make up the 10 gram difference arising from the change/correction in SearchingForAnswers' order.  You can change my quantity from 50g to 60g (tested, of course).

 

 

[DareDevil]

Hi Logic,

 

I've only just logged back in and am sending my coordinates by PM.

Thanks for your efforts!

 

DareDevil

[jmorris]

Hi Logic,

 

Please put me down for 20 grams of D.

 

Thank you,

 

jmorris

[tizak]

Hi Logic, I PM'ed you with my address for 5 grams of D. I am still researching the dangers and contraindications so, what is the group consensus of occasional use of Dasatinib in a healthy adult..

 

Cheers

 

Tizak

[Valijon]

Aren't the side effects similar to nilotinib? Anyone have reverse adverse effects on that drug?

[mikey]

 

As to Dasatinib dosage - I wish I had retained the data - I can't find it now and I'm rushed.

I came up with about 300 mg for my body weight, 185 lbs.

 

So, I've taken 300 mg with about ten times as much quercitin, two times, spaced a month apart -- but as liposomal quercitin, and noticed tremendous age-reversal effects, this last time the most.

 

Mikey, are you sure it was 300 mg?  That's a pretty large dose of Dasatinib.  The normal starting dose for Chronic Myeloid Leukemia is 100 or 140 mg/day, and the drug is supplied in dosage sizes as low as 20 mg.

 

Did you get it from TLR or was it pharmaceutical?  What did it look like?

 

This is the Dasatinib Package Insert from Bristol-Myers Squibb.  It's a very useful resource.

 

 

I did take 300 mg. that I got it from TLR. With liposomal quercitin.

 

There appeared to be a definite age-reversal effect, with two friends remarking that my hair was darker, independently and without prompting, about a week later.

 

I noticed that my facial wrinkles diminished.

 

The only odd thing was a breakout of blood blisters on my chest about a week later. They faded over a few days, though.

Was that cause by "shedding" - autophagy? 

 

I'll try lower daily doses, after doing some more reading.

[Valijon]

Please put me down for 2 grams of D to trial.

[Nate-2004]

Hi everyone.

I'm back but having a hell of a time finding a collating the promised results of Nilotinib research I have been Emailed and PMd.

Note to self:  Set up a separate Email acc for collecting results so you don't have to spend 2 days sifting trough 100s of Emails, idiot!!!  

 

Some quick answers to the posted questions:

 

Price: $ 8.93 (Excluding Paypal Fees (0.5% + $0.30 IIRC) and postage from the lab which varies depending on your location. ($ 6.80 in the USA )

I will try to negotiate a better price based on the new total, but the steps seem to be 250, 500, 1000 grams.  Still worth a try though and the testing cost comes down.

 

Longevitarian:  The Nilotinib buy is on atm and I am currently collecting funds for it.
$ 10.15 per gram excluding Paypal & Postage.

 

Soz SearchingForAnswers.  I'll correct that in the morning and reply to PMs  etc.  Its 2.40 AM here!

 

'Yawn!'

Good night!

 

Logic, any word?

[Logic]

 

Hi everyone.

I'm back but having a hell of a time finding a collating the promised results of Nilotinib research I have been Emailed and PMd.

Note to self:  Set up a separate Email acc for collecting results so you don't have to spend 2 days sifting trough 100s of Emails, idiot!!!  

 

Some quick answers to the posted questions:

 

Price: $ 8.93 (Excluding Paypal Fees (0.5% + $0.30 IIRC) and postage from the lab which varies depending on your location. ($ 6.80 in the USA )

I will try to negotiate a better price based on the new total, but the steps seem to be 250, 500, 1000 grams.  Still worth a try though and the testing cost comes down.

 

Longevitarian:  The Nilotinib buy is on atm and I am currently collecting funds for it.
$ 10.15 per gram excluding Paypal & Postage.

 

Soz SearchingForAnswers.  I'll correct that in the morning and reply to PMs  etc.  Its 2.40 AM here!

 

'Yawn!'

Good night!

 

Logic, any word?

 

 

I need to send out costings to everyone and collect the funds Nate.

I ended up in Cape Town after the family (car) rescue at Lamberts Bay.
Things have been ...bohemian!  
Including the 3G dongle being too old for her Windows 10 notebook.
I am dashing off to the beach with my daughter and friends and am unlikely to return in a business frame of mind.  
I hope to get to it tmrw.
 

[Vantika]

Welcome back, Logic.

 

Before you compute costings, go ahead and increase my order from my previous sixty grams (60g) to a new total of one hundred ten grams (110g), tested, of course.

 

That should put the total group batch size over 300g.  Maybe that would help secure a slightly better volume discount for everyone.

 

Thanks again, Logic, for organizing this.

 

[Rocket]

Welcome back, Logic.

 

Before you compute costings, go ahead and increase my order from my previous sixty grams (60g) to a new total of one hundred ten grams (110g), tested, of course.

 

That should put the total group batch size over 300g.  Maybe that would help secure a slightly better volume discount for everyone.

 

Thanks again, Logic, for organizing this.

 

Did I miss the boat on the group buy? I've been sending emails for 2 or 3 weeks with no replies.

[Valijon]

I haven't heard anything either. I don't think the buy has happened yet.

[Nate-2004]

Nope, I think Logic is on vacation right now.

[DareDevil]

Seems Logical - happy holidays !