21 replies to this topic

[cylon]

I experience mild tinnitus, usually only noticeable when in a quiet environment. I've experienced it the past few years (I'm middle aged male) but seems to have peaked recently with the onset of sporadic racetam use (noopept, aniracetam, piracetam). 

Wondering if its more than a coincidence.

Until I know better am going to cut out any racetam use and start with Lysine, zinc picolinate and some gingko first thing in the morning.

Have also introduced other things in my daily regimen including rhodiola, cordyceps, turmeric, lions mane, fish oil,D3, and 500mg magnesium before sleep.

 

After some googling it seems that Piracetam in particular is often recommended as a cure for some types of Tinnitus (along with Vinpocentine?) so I doubt that is the culprit. Perhaps noopept? I also tried Oxiracetam,but only once....too stimulating for me.

 

Anyone else experience mild tinnitus with nootropic use?

[cylon]

Quite honestly I doubt that any racetam I have been taking has exacerbated my tinnitus, but there are several anecdotal reports here on Longecity, of adverse effects including tinnitus, when taking various racetams and especially noopept. 

Better to be cautious however, since the goal should be optimized, not sub-optimal, health! hence my posting. Would luv to hear from other 'experienced' racetam users.  Is anyone aware of any scientific studies that actually show a statistically significant higher incidence of tinnitus in conjunction with any racetam usage?

 

[VerdeGo]

I can only speak for cordyceps. When I was dealing with some nerve issues, I had raging tinnitus out of nowhere. Cordyceps seemed to be the only thing that helped, perhaps because of its anti inflammatory properties. Tinnitus feels sometimes like it's a pressure change in my head, and usually affects one ear more profoundly than the other when it occurs. Try an anti inflammatory to see if that temporary relieves it. I'm still on the fence about taking racetams (I took pramiracetam three years ago, but it didn't do much for me except make colors brighter and give me wild spurts of energy that resulted in a crash). So I too would be interested to know if racetams may increase this unpleasant effect.

[cylon]

Thanks. Vinpocetine doesn't seem to help, other than giving me a headache and dulling my emotions. I've read several reports of Piracetam being used in the treatment of Tinnitus, but before I make matters worse, would like to get some confirmation that it IS an effective treatment. Also trying B12 sublingual + Zinc Picolinate + LLysine first thing upon waking.

Edited by cylon, 01 April 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[cylon]

After a week of the B12 sublingual + Zinc Picolinate + LLysine regimen with zero difference (I know, should give it more time but...) and based on further research I've switched to a 3x weekly regimen of

 

1- Gingko 120 mg

2- Pycnogenol 100mg

and

3- Rehmannia (Chinese Fox Glove) 

The latter apparently used in Oriental medicine for the treatment of both tinnitus and hearing loss.

 

 

Other herbs I'm researching for possible treatment

-Lion's Mane (since it stimulates NGF and a large portion of Tinnitus is nerve related,  based on this great thread http://www.longecity...-hearing-loss/)

 

-Longvida Curcumin (because of its ability to cross the BB barrier)

-Resveratrol  http://www.newsmax.c...1/05/id/484383/

-Astragulus

-Cordyceps

-Rhodiola

-GoldenSeal 

 

For preventative maintenance

-ALCAR

-CoQ10

http://www.lef.org/P...innitus/Page-07

 

Melatonin has shown some positive results but I can't take recommended dosage without feeling groggy the next morning and having nightmares that make me jump out of bed:)

 

 

Am hoping to hear from the Longecity community in regards to Piracetam, a quick search of pub med shows some promising reports

http://www.ncbi.nlm....acetam tinnitus

 

BUT, I've also read a few anecdotal reports of Piracetam making things worse...

 

 

 

Edited by cylon, 03 April 2015 - 11:23 PM.

[ceridwen]

Could anyone here tell me if Lysine or Valtrex can cross the blood brain barrier. Thanks I have tinnitus too. I don't want to frighten anyone but tinnitus and Menieres syndrome are said to be caused by HSV1 attacking the inner ear. Alzheimers may in some cases be caused by HSV1 in the brain. So do you know if there is anything that can tackle HSV1 that can cross the blood brain barrier

[VerdeGo]

When I experienced tinnitus on a daily basis, I got myself checked for HSV and the test came back negative. I think mine was more of a nerve issue, since I've had symptoms of a pinched nerve in the past. Cordyceps was the only supplement that temporarily eradicated it. I don't know if it was the anti-inflammatory properties of cordyceps, but it stopped all my symptoms (mostly nerve-related symptoms). I heard glycine is a novel anti-inflammatory and eases pressure in the spinal column. GABA and glycine are both inhibitory neurotransmitters in the brain and brain stem/spinal cord. 

 

Does boosting your GABA alleviate symptoms? If it's nerve-related, I'd either increase your GABA levels the natural way through superfoods (two servings of cherry tomatoes, or a few servings of brown rice have enough glutamic acid to convert to GABA and provide noticeable effects in both myself and my coworkers who are open-minded enough to try it), or try glycine, an amino acid that is available at most vitamin stores. I'm hearing great things about glycine for sleep and tranquility, and it also seems to have protective effects on the liver and other organs in animal studies. WebMD lists no substantial side effects or drug interactions (with the exception of clozapine, which is for schizophrenia). Since increasing GABA levels in my brain, I have not experienced any tinnitus whatsoever.

 

Hope this helps. 

[BieraK]

Rehmannia can inhibitis Nogo-a, and with Nogo-a you cran produces axogenesis in the Central Nervous System... Is a good way to go.

Think about potassium channel modulator and cochlear damage, tinnitus is related to this two things... the cochlear damage that then produces dorsal cochlear nucleus burst firing (an structure of the audotory stem) and the a disruption of the potassium channels (Kv3 and Kv7).

As I know (I've tinnitus from january of this year) tinnitus can be related to the cochlear-dorsal cochlear nucleus-potassium channel explanation or can be related to nerve damage... and for the last Rehmannia and NGF is a good option.

Edited by BieraK, 04 April 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[cylon]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'd love it if you could share your sources  re 'tinnitus is related to this two things'. The signal to noise ratio (pun intended) seems quite high when it comes to obtaining really useful information.

Gingko, which is often prescribed for T., only seems to exacerbate it in my case (increased blood flow to inner ear?). Besides it subjectively has a 'de-motivational' and slightly depressive effect on me.

Although still unclear whether its nerve damage related, will focus on trying to increase GABA, as well as possibly supplementation with Rehmannia and Lion's Mane.

 

I'm just paranoid about adding something to my daily regimen that might make T. subjectively worse.

Seeing an experienced acupuncturist is also on my agenda the next couple months.

Edited by cylon, 04 April 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[ceridwen]

I started Lysine and acupuncture today. They do not seem to have done anything at least yet. I'm sure my tinnitus is caused by nerve damage but thought that might been caused by HSV1 crossing the blood brain barrier

[ceridwen]

I started Lysine and acupuncture today. They do not seem to have done anything at least yet. I'm sure my tinnitus is caused by nerve damage but thought that might been caused by HSV1 crossing the blood brain barrier

[BieraK]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'd love it if you could share your sources  re 'tinnitus is related to this two things'. The signal to noise ratio (pun intended) seems quite high when it comes to obtaining really useful information.

Gingko, which is often prescribed for T., only seems to exacerbate it in my case (increased blood flow to inner ear?). Besides it subjectively has a 'de-motivational' and slightly depressive effect on me.

Although still unclear whether its nerve damage related, will focus on trying to increase GABA, as well as possibly supplementation with Rehmannia and Lion's Mane.

 

I'm just paranoid about adding something to my daily regimen that might make T. subjectively worse.

Seeing an experienced acupuncturist is also on my agenda the next couple months.

DORSAL COCHLEAR NUCLEUS
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22085487
Acoustic over-exposure triggers burst firing in dorsal cochlear nucleus fusiform cells.

Pilati N1, Large C, Forsythe ID, Hamann M.

Author information

 

Abstract

Acoustic over-exposure (AOE) triggers deafness in animals and humans and provokes auditory nerve degeneration. Weeks after exposure there is an increase in the cellular excitability within the dorsal cochlear nucleus (DCN) and this is considered as a possible neural correlate of tinnitus. The origin of this DCN hyperactivity phenomenon is still unknown but it is associated with neurons lying within the fusiform cell layer. Here we investigated changes of excitability within identified fusiform cells following AOE. Wistar rats were exposed to a loud (110 dB SPL) single tone (14.8 kHz) for 4 h. Auditory brainstem response recordings performed 3-4 days after AOE showed that the hearing thresholds were significantly elevated by about 20-30 dB SPL for frequencies above 15 kHz. Control fusiform cells fired with a regular firing pattern as assessed by the coefficient of variation of the inter-spike interval distribution of 0.19 ± 0.11 (n = 5). Three to four days after AOE, 40% of fusiform cells exhibited irregular bursting discharge patterns (coefficient of variation of the inter-spike interval distribution of 1.8 ± 0.6, n = 5; p < 0.05). Additionally the maximal firingfollowing step current injections was reduced in these cells (from 83 ± 11 Hz, n = 5 in unexposed condition to 43 ± 6 Hz, n = 5 after AOE) and this was accompanied by an increased firing gain (from 0.09 ± 0.01 Hz/pA, n = 5 in unexposed condition to 0.56 ± 0.25 Hz/pA, n = 5 after AOE). Current and voltage clamp recordings suggest that the presence of bursts in fusiform cells is related to a down regulation of high voltage activated potassium currents. In conclusion we showed that AOE triggers deafness at early stages and this is correlated with profound changes in the firing pattern and frequency of the DCN major output fusiform cells. The changes here described could represent the initial network imbalance prior to the emergence of tinnitus.

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DAMAGE TO THE INNER CELLS OF THE COCHLEA
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25477858

Cochlear damage affects neurotransmitter chemistry in the central auditory system.

Lee AC1, Godfrey DA1.

Author information

 

Abstract

Tinnitus, the perception of a monotonous sound not actually present in the environment, affects nearly 20% of the population of the United States. Although there has been great progress in tinnitus research over the past 25 years, the neurochemical basis of tinnitus is still poorly understood. We review current research about the effects of various types of cochlear damage on the neurotransmitter chemistry in the central auditory system and document evidence that different changes in this chemistry can underlie similar behaviorally measured tinnitus symptoms. Most available data have been obtained from rodents following cochlear damage produced by cochlear ablation, intense sound, or ototoxic drugs. Effects on neurotransmitter systems have been measured as changes in neurotransmitter level, synthesis, release, uptake, and receptors. In this review, magnitudes of changes are presented for neurotransmitter-related amino acids, acetylcholine, and serotonin. A variety of effects have been found in these studies that may be related to animal model, survival time, type and/or magnitude of cochlear damage, or methodology. The overall impression from the evidence presented is that any imbalance of neurotransmitter-related chemistry could disrupt auditory processing in such a way as to producetinnitus.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25266340

Tinnitus: animal models and findings in humans.

Eggermont JJ1, Roberts LE.

Author information

 

Abstract

Chronic tinnitus (ringing of the ears) is a medically untreatable condition that reduces quality of life for millions of individuals worldwide. Most cases are associated with hearing loss that may be detected by the audiogram or by more sensitive measures. Converging evidence from animal models and studies of human tinnitus sufferers indicates that, while cochlear damage is a trigger, most cases of tinnitus are not generated by irritative processes persisting in the cochlea but by changes that take place in central auditory pathways when auditory neurons lose their input from the ear. Forms of neural plasticity underlie these neural changes, which include increased spontaneous activity and neural gain in deafferented central auditory structures, increased synchronous activity in these structures, alterations in the tonotopic organization of auditory cortex, and changes in network behavior in nonauditory brain regions detected by functional imaging of individuals with tinnitus and corroborated by animal investigations. Research on the molecular mechanisms that underlie neural changes in tinnitus is in its infancy and represents a frontier for investigation.

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TINNITUS AND POTASSIUM CHANNELS
 

Pharmacodynamics of potassium channel openers in cultured neuronal networks.

Wu C1, V Gopal K2, Lukas TJ3, Gross GW4, Moore EJ5.

Author information

 

Abstract

A novel class of drugs - potassium (K(+)) channel openers or activators - has recently been shown to cause anticonvulsive and neuroprotective effects by activating hyperpolarizing K(+) currents, and therefore, may show efficacy for treating tinnitus. This study presents measurements of the modulatory effects of four K(+) channel openers on the spontaneous activity and action potential waveforms of neuronal networks. The networks were derived from mouse embryonic auditory cortices and grown on microelectrode arrays. Pentylenetetrazol was used to create hyperactivity states in the neuronal networks as a first approximation for mimicking tinnitus or tinnitus-like activity. We then compared the pharmacodynamics of the four channel activators, retigabine and flupirtine (voltage-gated K(+) channel KV7 activators), NS1619 and isopimaric acid ("big potassium" BK channel activators). The EC50 of retigabine, flupirtine, NS1619, and isopimaric acid were 8.0, 4.0, 5.8, and 7.8µM, respectively. The reduction of hyperactivity compared to the reference activity was significant. The present results highlight the notion of re-purposing the K(+) channel activators for reducing hyperactivity of spontaneously active auditory networks, serving as a platform for these drugs to show efficacy toward target identification, prevention, as well as treatment of tinnitus.

I started Lysine and acupuncture today. They do not seem to have done anything at least yet. I'm sure my tinnitus is caused by nerve damage but thought that might been caused by HSV1 crossing the blood brain barrier

Low Lever Laser Therapy can improve tinnitus.
 

[cylon]

Discovered something else on PubMed

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23127850

'Forskolin induced increase in spontaneous neural activity was comparable to supra-threshold tone evoke neural responses. These results are viewed in context of hyperexcitability as a correlate of tinnitus.'

Not sure I interpret the study properly or if it in any way suggests caution when taking Forskolin orally. Given its popularity and widespread use as a diet supplement, typically in 25mg or more per dose,  you would think that a quick google search would turn up at least a few anecdotal reports, but nothing

 

I have used Forskolin infrequently the past couple months. 

Although the amounts were extremely low (never more than10mg) something else I should probably avoid just in case there is some link.

 

Edited by cylon, 05 April 2015 - 12:51 AM.

[VerdeGo]

Brain Res. 2012 Nov 16;1485:77-87. doi: 10.1016/j.brainres.2012.02.014. Epub 2012 Feb 14.

Targeting inhibitory neurotransmission in tinnitus.

Richardson BD1, Brozoski TJ, Ling LL, Caspary DM.

Author information

 

Abstract

Tinnitus perception depends on the presence of its neural correlates within the auditory neuraxis and associated structures. Targeting specific circuits and receptors within the central nervous system in an effort to relieve the perception of tinnitus and its impact on one's emotional and mental state has become a focus of tinnitus research. One approach is to upregulate endogenous inhibitory neurotransmitter levels (e.g., glycine and GABA) and selectively target inhibitory receptors in key circuits to normalize tinnitus pathophysiology. Thus, the basic functional and molecular properties of two major ligand-gated inhibitory receptor systems, the GABA(A) receptor (GABA(A)R) and glycine receptor (GlyR) are described. Also reviewed is the rationale for targeting inhibition, which stems from reported tinnitus-related homeostatic plasticity of inhibitory neurotransmitter systems and associated enhanced neuronal excitability throughout most central auditory structures. However, the putative role of the medial geniculate body (MGB) in tinnitus has not been previously addressed, specifically in terms of its inhibitory afferents from inferior colliculus and thalamic reticular nucleus and its GABA(A)R functional heterogeneity. This heterogeneous population of GABA(A)Rs, which may be altered in tinnitus pathology, and its key anatomical position in the auditory CNS make the MGB a compelling structure for tinnitus research. Finally, some selective compounds, which enhance tonic inhibition, have successfully ameliorated tinnitus in animal studies, suggesting that the MGB and, to a lesser degree, the auditory cortex may be their primary locus of action. These pharmacological interventions are examined in terms of their mechanism of action and why these agents may be effective in tinnitus treatment. This article is part of a Special Issue entitled: Tinnitus Neuroscience.

 

[cylon]

In my case, even after 1 day, increasing GABA seems to reduce symptoms of T.. 

I've recently read The Edge Effect and taken the Braverman test to determine my dominant neurochemistry.  I'm highly skeptical of much in the book but the test results DID indicate I was GABA deficient.

http://advancedpsych...verman.test.pdf

 

So will continue to use the following as part of my 'sleep stack'

Magnesium(100mg)+Taurine(375mg) combo, Ashwaganda(400mg), L-Theanine(100mg)  and a mixed B complex. 

5HTP is also often suggested to help boost GABA but I'm not convinced of its long term safety.

 

Although nothing 'official', I have come across a few anecodotal reports suggesting either otoxicity or T. as a possible side effect, all of which suggest at least caution when using the following

Noopept, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam

Am going to avoid these as well as PhenylPiracetam just to be safe.

Piracetam is a big question mark for me but will continue to use occasionally and closely monitor for any increased-decreased symptoms.

Forskolin is another question mark. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can better interpret the aforementioned study.

 

As previously mentioned am going to add Lion's Mane and Rehmannia (if I can find a reliable source) to my daily regimen which includes D3, Omega 3, Pycnogenol and Turmeric. 

Curcumin, especially the Longvida brand, is also on my radar but am still waiting to see more reports on its long term safety

 

I highly doubt here is any 'TinnitusMiracle' since there are a 1000 causes to begin with, but pretty certain I am on the right path.

 

 

 

 

Edited by cylon, 05 April 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[VerdeGo]

I'm glad increasing your GABA levels helped you. This has helped me in so many ways with other symptoms as well. I think when we raise our ACh levels too high, GABA and dopamine get depleted, so perhaps the best way to lower ACh levels naturally is to increase GABA in the brain. I hope you continue to find relief from your symptoms.

[Nobrainer]

There seem to be two active threads about the subject now. I added to this one http://www.longecity...dings/?p=722300

[ceridwen]

I've tried low level lasar therapy. It usually lessened the tinnitus the day after except for 1 time when it increased it. I also tried lasers on my ears. Interestingly LLLT also seem to successfully attack HSV. I've just bought the Brain stimulator starter kit for tDCS.

[chung_pao]

Still experiencing Tinnitus?

I do too. But in my case, the triggers seem to be:

Oxidative stress: Triggered by excessive UV-radiation (sun), Excessive doses of Vitamin D or A (hypervitaminosis of these is known to cause tinnitus), Pro-oxidant (i.e. excessive) doses of Vitamin C or E or NAC. These things are not things I do intentionally, but I've noticed a causation serendipitously.
Liver damage or impairment (caused by aforementioned stimuli, or by other drugs/supplements).

And of course: Observing nuclear bomb explosions

IMO, any substance or stimulus that has a negative impact on your liver, can also trigger tinnitus.

Since we're not designed to experience Tinnitus all day, there must be a trigger for you.
Try to observe in the morning, before ingesting anything, if it's present. Then just observe what the trigger was when it appears.
If adding drugs, do it one by one.

Edited by chung_pao, 18 April 2015 - 12:30 PM.

[Geoffrey]

To answer your original question, piracetam does cause mild tinnitus for me, but so does noopept, oxiracetam and aniracetam (the latter very noticeably). The main racetam that doesn't cause tinnitus for me is pramiracetam. I don't know whether the tinnitus is the result of increased blood flow to the head, or whether the NMDA-receptors in the ear are getting over-excited due to the racetam usage. It sounds like a continuous background high-pitched tone (very high pitched -- higher than I can hear normally, but perfectly "audible" in this phantom form). It's probably just the high-frequency receptors which have become senescent being activated by the racetams. In all cases, the tinnitus dies down after 12-24 hours of abstention from the racetam in question.

[cylon]

To answer your original question, piracetam does cause mild tinnitus for me, but so does noopept, oxiracetam and aniracetam (the latter very noticeably). The main racetam that doesn't cause tinnitus for me is pramiracetam. I don't know whether the tinnitus is the result of increased blood flow to the head, or whether the NMDA-receptors in the ear are getting over-excited due to the racetam usage. It sounds like a continuous background high-pitched tone (very high pitched -- higher than I can hear normally, but perfectly "audible" in this phantom form). It's probably just the high-frequency receptors which have become senescent being activated by the racetams. In all cases, the tinnitus dies down after 12-24 hours of abstention from the racetam in question.

Thanks

'sounds like a continuous background high-pitched tone (very high pitched -- higher than I can hear normally, but perfectly "audible" in this phantom form).'

ditto

Unfortunately it does not subside at all and haven't touched any racetam for the past month.( only used them in moderate doses off and on for a couple months, Noopept and PhenyPiracetam just a few times each).

The level is low enough to be manageable, just paranoid about ingesting ANY substance that might make it worse. This means trashing a large quantity of Aniracetam and Piracetam. I'm not 100% certain that racetams played a factor in exacerbating my condition (wish there was some way I could find out for sure, but figure its not worth the risk to continue use.

Also noticed on factMed that T. is a reported symptom by roughly 7% of Piracetam users which to me seems significant enough to warrant caution.

Edited by cylon, 18 April 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[Nemo888]

I have tinnitus from blowing shit up and firing machine guns with no ear protection. Haven't found any Western medical treatments that helped yet, but I may try some spoken of here.

In TCM tinnitus is a sign of weak "kidneys" the organ that stores your vitality. It is treated with traditional tonics like cordyceps, ginseng, rehmania, etc. I find these traditional folk remedies somewhat effective and beneficial to my health in general. Stimulants can weaken ones internal energy exacerbating tinnitus according to TCM diagnostic principles.

Edited by Nemo888, 18 April 2015 - 11:20 PM.