11 replies to this topic

[airplanepeanuts]

I think this poll is interesting because the neurofeedback gear is so expensive. I only want to buy it if it's really worth it.

 

Of course the vendors want us to believe it's great..

[OpaqueMind]

Can we have life-changing as an option?

 

Also, this poll might give inconclusive or misdirective results. Like mushrooms, not all neurofeedback protocols were created equal.

 

Also, I am surprised that two people said it was only moderate, since I assume they were using either TAGsync or Brain Trainer protocols, and they should work for absolutely everyone who has still has functioning neuroplastic processes. In my case it took me a fair while to undergo profound transformations with neurofeedback, and in such cases extraneous and detrimental circumstances should be suspected. Important factors for successful neurofeedback training; inflammation management, plasticity management, not under constant stress, and appropriate neurodynamics processes in place to modulate plasticity. The first three are related to good diet (eg enough and the right nutrients, minimisation of allergens/toxins, enough protein/proper macronutrient ratios), appropriate supplementation (eg NAC, Fish oil, possibly other antioxidants) and stress management techniques (eg diaphragmatic breathing, proper posture).

 

The fourth (appropriate neurodynamics) is an especially important one which I have mentioned before but which has probably been buried in the large conversations we've had in the other neurofeedback threads. The key aspects here are Infra-low frequency training for developing glial cell networks, and SMR amplitude training for fine-tuning thalamocortcal interactions, which themselves module synchrony. The latter is especially important, and can be done by uptraining 12-15hz or 13.7-14.3hz at Cz or just in front of Cz. Whichever feels subjectively better and more relaxing, use that one. This is done in TAGx1. The thalamus acts kind of like a conductor for large parts of the cortex, so training without appropriate thalamic rhythms is quite difficult and certainly less fruitful. If you're a human with a brain, you should probably train this. If you have any kind of insomnia, attention problems, seizures, chronic muscle tension or anxiety you really need to train this. TAGsync will NOT be very effective if you have a dysfunctional SMR rhythm and have not first fixed it.

 

The way that neurofeedback works is not like taking nootropics. We are dealing here with universal and universally trainable brain dynamics, getting at things from the direction of experientially-modulated neuroplasticity. The effects of nootropics are very variable between individuals, but specific protocols of neurofeedback are generally much less so. If you have an appropriately neuroplastic brain, I have no doubt that this modality will, in the right circumstances, profoundly change your mind and life. If you are not having amazing results, it is because there is something blocking your progress. If anyone feels they are getting substandard results with this, feel free to message me with an overview of your situation and I will be happy to advise you 

[nootz]

I suggest people look into the side effect profile for their own safety. If indeed results such as Opaquemind's are possible

it means that it is a powerful technology and not to be taken lightly.

 

There are also non responders

 

Hopefully a lot more people chime in and the better quality

feedback the better we can better assess the risk to reward ratio

 

things like

what protocol

# of sessions

 

would be great and anything else people feel comfortable sharing

 

I'll start it off

 

protocol: Tag sync

sessions: 1 with clinician

results: headaches(not prone to these)

and a very bizarre wired and tired feeling (knocked out midday, and at night, intense dreams with coursing electricity through body)

 

pretty touch and go for a few days

did I feel better? Honestly only in contrast to feeling horrible

 

 

 

[Nikki Sopchak]

I found out about neurofeedback several years ago when looking for an alternative to medication for my daughter who was diagnosed with ADD, and anxiety. I can hnestly say it changed her life, it put her back on track, the results were profound and permenant (well, so far anyway and its been over 3 years).

 

I was so impressed with the results and I was pissed that my doctor put my kid on meds without telling me about this option first. Then I realized that most doctors just dont know aout it because no one wil ever get rich off of realling healing people so no one is educating the doctors about this.

 

I decided to become a trainer and make this more available and affordable in my community. I did a lot of research and chose NeurOptimal because it works on a different paradigm from the other systems, it does not push the brain but rather provides pure feedback (no "rewards" no "protocols" no trying to make your brain more like some idealized "normal" brain etc). NeurOptimal is like giving the brain a mirror and letting it choose what to do with the information. Because it doesnt push the brain, there is no risk of overtraining or negative side effects.

 

Of course the first person I trained was myself, I wrote about my experience in my newsletter (I can't link here because I am a newbie on this forum but I'm happy to share if anyone wants details just pm me on FB). In the past 3 years of training, I have seen nothing but excellent transformations in my clients. I have even seen some miracles. Now there is some talk about the possibility that this training could actually be reducing the rate of decline (or reducing peoples biological age) as evidenced by teleomere measures. I believe a sy=tudy is underway to test this theory. Exciting stuff!

 

I have seen enough to really believe this is the future of self health care. I regularly see people getting off medications and feeling better than they have in years, I see people finding their creative "flow" and effortlessly producing the best work of their lives. We see amazing things happen with people who have sufferred from TBI at some point in their past and we also see great developmental leaps in children who are on the autism spectrum. I have yet to see anyone complain of a negative side effect with NeurOptimal.

 

I now offer rental systems to people in my community as an affordable alternative to training in the office or purchasing a system. Those who have trained at home have reported excellent results. This year I agreed to become a rep for Zengar (the company that makes NeurOptimal) so I can help people who are thinking about buying systems for home use and/ who want to become trainers.

 

I fully expect to see the growth in demand outpace the growth in available trainers within the next few years as word of mouth spreads. I already have people driving as much as 4.5 hours to see me.

 

I hope this is helpful, I am not trying to spam or plug or slam any other system. This is just my personal experience and the reasons behind my choice.

[Irishdude]

I'd purchase it in a heart beat and get working on it if I truly believed in it. Ive seen too many things come and go. Its a big investment. I have seen a lot of genuine people tell me its amazing though. I should just buy it. The potential rewards are too great.

 

Whats the best entry level device these days? any cheaper alternatives out yet? Last time I saw it would cost over 1000e if not 1500e.

[airplanepeanuts]

I bought a Q-Wiz after starting this thread. About a year ago I started with HEG 

 

HEG definitely does something- I think it is supposed to strengthens the PFC. I felt it gave me a little bit of an edge at poker (which I rarely play). Also I felt that some part of my brain (maybe the PFC) developed a bit of a life of it's own where I would for example imitate someone without intending to and realizing later.

 

Then I did some sessions of  Alpha-Gamma synchronicity. EEG feedback is a little harder to get into because the signal is more chaotic and  applying the electrodes is a hassle.

I did notice subtle benefits from this, it kind of zones me in on my life and problems. This might also be a little painful because it takes me out of a comfortable numbness. Interestingly I felt that my boss liked me better the day after a session sometimes.

 

 

So it's no silver bullet for me, but it was an interesting albeit expensive experiment for me that I maybe should have invested more time in. (And maybe will in the future).

 

Edited by airplanepeanuts, 07 May 2016 - 10:06 PM.

[DRN2001]

I have a Brain Trainer Electro Cap for sale.  Used very little just a month - did my QEEG, and learned the 10-20 positons - no further use.  Large 58-62.  Comes with:

 

Cap(s), surgical
Ear Electrodes, pair 3.5″ Drops
Quick Insert Electrodes (3)
Sponge disks (100)
Electro-Gel, 16 oz.
Needle/Syringe Kit

 

Half new cost at US$220 + shipping

 

Cheers!

 

[bbminded]

@airplanepeanuts... what HEG device...nir or peg? And what software with your HEG device? I have the nir model that I need to get serious about and start using!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Major Legend]

I would say it does, i've experienced benefits from HEG devices, and you can learn to recreate the effect without the devices after you work out how to move the damn animation thing.

 

My experience is it is exactly what it says it is, which is having a feedback system to guide neuroplasticity, so very similar to building muscle. I'm not really sure if the results are permanent though, as I find

when I stop doing the HEG I quickly revert back to default.

 

Also the improvements are modest, but doesn't come close the NSI-189. It makes total sense because biofeedback uses natural mechanisms to achieve results. If for example the underlying cause is genetic

and those genes are still being expressed, then its likely the brain will fight against it. If problems are developmental or people are seeking to reach a "higher-level" - neurofeedback deserve to be looked at

despite even the price.

 

I think it holds great promise as the whole point of something like TagSync is to reach harmony in the brain, certainly HEG has allowed me to force my executive function up if needed, but it's also tiring, and you

can feel your brain pushing back to the old place like trying to stop a river with a dam.

 

However it is work, and I just don't have time and especially the money to invest in such a system. The set-up isn't exactly easy either.

 

Especially like Opaque says, the information is largely buried in the giant thread, so it's hard to know where to start. I sincerely believe it is akin to doing brain surgery using biofeedback, but surgery also requires

a lot of knowledge, and perhaps messing it up is also a possibility.

Edited by Major Legend, 18 January 2017 - 06:06 AM.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

I'm thinking of trying QEEG. My problems all seem to be located in the thalamus and hypothalamus. I recently had a 24 hour EEG at a hospital, and the technician said EEG can't reach deep structures of the brain like the thalamus and hypot. Does anyone know whether a QEEG can do this, and if so, how does it succeed where EEG does not?

[Daniel Cooper]

Any idea what system/protocol is best for anxiety?

 

If these things actually work for anxiety then they're worth whatever they're charging.

 

 

 

[Nuke]

I found that the basic SMR protocol works wonders for anxiety and tension. You can even do with with only a single channel EEG. It is still one of my favorite protocols, I end almost all of my sessions with some SMR.