63 replies to this topic

[Strangelove]

http://uanews.org/st...rain-ultrasound

In a followup study of ultrasound on UA psychology student volunteers, recording vital signs such as heart rate and breath rate, and narrowed down the optimum treatment to 2 megahertz for 30 seconds as the most likely to produce a positive mood change in patients.

"With 2 megahertz those who were stimulated with ultrasound reported feeling 'lighter,' or 'happier;' a little more attentive, a little more focused and a general increase in well-being," Sanguinetti said.

Allen and Sanguinetti then began a double blind clinical trial to verify the statistical significance of their findings and to rule out any possibility of a placebo effect in their patients.


A special thanks to lostfalco for giving a link for this reasonably priced device.

https://www.medexsup..._pid-23546.html

I am not going to buy it right now, due to money issues, but most importantly to give TULIP at least two months, without much else except possibly the CILTEP stack the days I am not using the LEDs.

If anyone is thinking to buy it, as of now (from researching online, TUS, seems to be safe). There are experiences from people using much more than the 2 megahertz recommended in the study, with no serious ill effects, and also there are commercial ultrasound face massagers at 2 megahertz, on sale for quite some time now.


A possible place to start using TUS would be the Reticular Activating System.

If anyones tries activating RAS (or any brain part for that matter) please start at even less time than the 30 seconds recommended in the above study.

A simple diagram for RAS activation with ultrasound, Check FIG. 1A , 130, 140

http://www.google.co...s/US20110208094


FIG. 1A shows sagittal view of brain highlighting the Reticular Activating System 130 including skull 100 with cerebrum 110along with cerebellum 120. FIG. 1B again shows the Reticular Activating System 130 including skull 100 with cerebrum 110along with cerebellum 120, but this time with ultrasound transducer 140 approximately aligned along the axis of the Reticular Activating System and placed against the neck. The ultrasound transducer 140 does not cover the entire length of the Reticular Activating System (RAS) first because the upper part of the is not physically accessible (although the top of the outline 130 is the midbrain which is outside the RAS) and second because the ultrasound field can be steered to a point above the top of the ultrasound transducer 140. In another embodiment, the ultrasound transducer is perturbed laterally, up and down, and/or in and out causing enhanced change in the target neural tissue.

Edited by Mind, 22 April 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[lostfalco]

haha This feels a little like deja vu. =)

Thanks for the info Strangelove!

I'm actually a big fan of Dr. Jamie Tyler and his work on transcranial ultrasound stimulation (TUS). I have done this a handful of times (6 or 7) and it is VERY stimulating. I usually had energy for around 2 to 4 hours and then I would crash. I still need to do quite a bit of tweaking to figure this one out but it is very intriguing.

I still have my device (a friend just gave it to me!) and I'm going to try the 2 MHz probe soon. 8 MHz was originally postulated as the best http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22664271 but now I think they are leaning more towards 2 MHz.

Dr. Tyler's company, Neurotrek, is still paying people ($100) to try out TUS in the Boston area. I'm going in October (I originally signed up for the end of August but got too busy). http://neurotrek.youcanbook.me/

Dr. Jamie Tyler's Lab: http://www.tylerlab.com/

Neurotrek: http://neurotrek.com/

My Device: https://www.medexsup...oducts_id=23548

Study I imitated: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22664271

TUS report from June 2013: http://www.longecity...210#entry594400

Videos on TUS: http://www.longecity...240#entry595490

ScienceDaily articles: http://www.scienceda...00609122832.htm
http://www.scienceda...10908091027.htm

Edited by lostfalco, 17 September 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Jochen]

Hey Falco, keen to find out how your Neurotrek visit was (if it already took place).

[formergenius]

Any updates on your experiences with TUS, lostfalco? Have you tried other areas?
Also, concerning safety, IIRC I read that some form of TUS was also used for selectively killing neurons.. Might be wrong there, as I can't find the articles now, but if so; which factor is responsible for whether or not it is invasive?

[Jochen]

lostfalco hasn't been online since beginning of May.

 

Still keen to hear if other people have experience with this.

[BieraK]

I'm interested in trying this... for now I have access to a one Ultrasound Massager of 1 MHZ... According to this paper they recommend to use frequencies of <1mhz

The human studies that I've seen use 8 mhz for 15 seconds and 2mhz for 30 seconds. What do you think?

Attached Files

•  Ultrasonic neuromodulation by brain stimulation with transcranial ultrasound - Nature Protocols - 2011.pdf   1.91MB   9 downloads

Edited by Arsonista, 17 February 2015 - 07:35 PM.

[h2o]

I remember lostfalco referring to transcranial ultrasound stimulation a few years back and I recently read about an Alzheirmer’s study breakthrough that used ultrasound stimulation to completely remove the amyloid plaques of the disease in mouse models.

 

Publishing in Science Translational Medicine, the team describes the technique as using a particular type of ultrasound called a focused therapeutic ultrasound, which non-invasively beams sound waves into the brain tissue.  By oscillating super-fast, these sound waves are able to gently open up the blood-brain barrier, which is a layer that protects the brain against bacteria, and stimulate the brain’s microglial cells to move in. Microglila cells are basically waste-removal cells, so once they get past the blood-brain barrier, they’re able to clear out the toxic beta-amyloid clumps before the blood-brain barrier is restored within a few hours.

 

The team reports fully restoring the memories of 75 percent of the mice they tested it on, with zero damage to the surrounding brain tissue. They found that the treated mice displayed improved performance in three memory tasks - a maze, a test to get them to recognise new objects, and one to get them to remember the places they should avoid.

 

 

Here is the link to the article: http://www.scienceal...memory-function

 

 

Now this got me interested in wanting to buy an ultrasound device. If I do eventually try it, then I can officially say that I have stimulated my brain using light, sound, and electricity all in the comfort of my own house, haha. (I have already done LLLT and tDCS in the past)

 

The link to the device posted above no longer works, but if I look at the URL I can get the product keywords:

 

https://www.google.c...ved=0CFgQpiswAA

 

Would this be the device be classified as a “focused energetic ultrasound?” The researchers in the Alzheimer’s study said this was the key feature. Also, the brains of mice are obviously much smaller so the waves can more deeply penetrate than in human's brains so it's not yet clear how effective ultrasound waves can treat Alz in humans.

[h2o]

Yesterday, I tried the 2 MHz ultrasound for the first time. I have to say that I was more alert, more energetic, and overall more enhanced.   For those 6 hours or so, processing was more "amplified." I was working on some web coding exercises and  reading and typing were noticeably faster than usual. In my opinion, there is definite possibility of using transcranial ultrasound for cognitive enhancement. It could be a powerful tool for treating ADD and depression.  I wish the initial effects would be permanent but I think there is also the possibility of gradually increasing baseline functioning. Also just judging on this first time use, I think the effects are stronger than both tDCS and LLLT.

 

The probe diameter is about 1 inch and I stimulated 5 areas on my forehead. At first I tried 30 seconds on one area, but I didn't notice an effect. Then I decided to increase to 1 - 1.5 minutes for each of the 5 regions, and then the stimulating effects were very obvious to me for 6 hours before I needed to rest for an hour.

 

If anyone is interested in trying this, I have found some affordable options. I purchased a Sonotrax Lite 2 Mhz doppler off ebay for $100. Here's an exact link:

 

Sonotrax lite Fetal Heart Doppler

 

 

I like this particular device because the probes are interchangeable. It would be easy to swap a 2 Mhz for a 8 Mhz for instance. The more expensive models have fancy features such as a LCD screen but this is not required for our purposes since the LCD screen is designed to display heart rate. 

 

I have also seen 2 mH portable dopplers for as low as $40:

 

Sonoline B Fetal Heart Doppler, Backlight LCD FDA 2Mhz- USA Seller

 

 

[BieraK]

Yesterday, I tried the 2 MHz ultrasound for the first time. I have to say that I was more alert, more energetic, and overall more enhanced.   For those 6 hours or so, processing was more "amplified." I was working on some web coding exercises and  reading and typing were noticeably faster than usual. In my opinion, there is definite possibility of using transcranial ultrasound for cognitive enhancement. It could be a powerful tool for treating ADD and depression.  I wish the initial effects would be permanent but I think there is also the possibility of gradually increasing baseline functioning. Also just judging on this first time use, I think the effects are stronger than both tDCS and LLLT.

 

The probe diameter is about 1 inch and I stimulated 5 areas on my forehead. At first I tried 30 seconds on one area, but I didn't notice an effect. Then I decided to increase to 1 - 1.5 minutes for each of the 5 regions, and then the stimulating effects were very obvious to me for 6 hours before I needed to rest for an hour.

 

If anyone is interested in trying this, I have found some affordable options. I purchased a Sonotrax Lite 2 Mhz doppler off ebay for $100. Here's an exact link:

 

Sonotrax lite Fetal Heart Doppler

 

 

I like this particular device because the probes are interchangeable. It would be easy to swap a 2 Mhz for a 8 Mhz for instance. The more expensive models have fancy features such as a LCD screen but this is not required for our purposes since the LCD screen is designed to display heart rate. 

 

I have also seen 2 mH portable dopplers for as low as $40:

 

Sonoline B Fetal Heart Doppler, Backlight LCD FDA 2Mhz- USA Seller

Great! excellent experience.

Is there more parameters besides the 2 mhz?

I remember reading an article about the capacity of Ultrasound of inhibiting or activating the neurons (similar to cathodal and anodal in TDCS), apparently that depends on the velocity of application... I need to find that article again.

[h2o]

Hi BieraK,

 

I agree that the effects are interesting. You also need to use ultrasound transmission gel because the soundwaves don't travel well in air. The machine I got came with some, but the ultrasound gel is easily available online if you look around. From my understanding the lower frequencies such as 2 mHz penetrate deeper but have lower resolution while higher frequencies like the 8 mHz which was used in the first ultrasound mood study in humans has a higher resolution but does not penetrate as deep. I found 2 mHz stimulating and lostfalco said that he found 8 mHz stimulating as well.  In tDCS, the theory is that the cathode inhibits neurons, but I'm not sure what, if any,  soundwave frequency range inhibits neurons in humans.

[ceridwen]

That's very exciting! I had some LLT today. Do you think it would mix well with it? I bought some ultra sound devices and some gel just in case people decided it could help the brain even at this stage of technological development. I feel greatly encouraged by this and may experiment tonight.

[ceridwen]

1 of my machines is 1mHz. I would appreciate feedback as to what this could do to me knowing my health condition at this setting if anyone knows yet before I try this.

[BieraK]

In a study that I posted before says <1mhz.... I don't know if understand this like greather than or equal, or just only greather than 1 mhz.

Anyway I dont think that 1 mhz can be harmful. If 2 Mhz penetrates deeper than 8 mhz, then 1 mhz could be a little bit deeper than 2 Mhz.

What is your device?

I've a Chinese Ultrasound massager device in home of 1 mhz, but I don't if good to use it. 

And for LLLT+Ultrasound....There is no study about both interventions, but I want to use three devices, TDCS+LLLT+Ultrasound  .

I've only combined TDCS with LLLT... No negatives, I do the TDCS the day after LLLT.

  

[BieraK]

Spoiler

Ultrasound 'breakthrough' in treating Alzheimer's - in mice

Thursday March 12 2015

Treated mice performed better in maze testing

Ultrasound removed clumps of protein from the brain

"Alzheimer's breakthrough as ultrasound successfully treats disease in mice," The Guardian reports.

New research found high-energy sound waves helped remove abnormal clumps of proteins from the brains of mice, and also improved their memory.

The mice used in this study were genetically engineered to produce amyloid plaques – abnormal clumps of protein fragment amyloid-β typically found in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease.

There was a 50% reduction in plaques in mice whose brains were exposed to ultrasound once a week for five to seven weeks.

Memory also improved to the extent that the mice were able to negotiate a maze as well as healthy mice after the treatment. They were also better able to avoid a section of a spinning wheel that would give them an electric shock.

While the treated mice appeared to be unharmed, with no obvious tissue damage, human brains are much more complex. Ultrasound could damage brain function in ways that we cannot predict.

The current study used mice that have plaques, but not the other two main brain features of Alzheimer's: cell damage and loss of neural connections. Both these differences limit our certainty of how well the findings represent what would happen in humans. Therefore, further animal studies are needed.

http://www.nhs.uk/ne...rs-in-mice.aspx
 

[OpaqueMind]

Transcranial ultrasound stimulation is thought to work by affecting microtubules [see here and here].

 

Evidence is piling up for the Orch OR theory of consciousness, the latest study can found here and a review of Orch OR here. I highly recommend reading the Orch OR paper, the implications of this theory for not only mind/brain science but also physics and biology at large are profound.

 

The theory is absolutely fascinating and with this latest study it has been proven beyond doubt that microtubules play an indisposable role in the facilitation of consciousness.

 

h20, thanks so much for reporting your experience. How is it going for you? Are you noticing an increase in the effects over time? Could you describe your mental state after using the TUS device?

 

I've ordered one already, will be with me soon hopefully :D

[ceridwen]

I'm taking some and some Hydergiene. Memories might be coming back. I don't feel at all well though 

[ceridwen]

Still really confused I just told the wrong thread about my HomeCare ultrasound HT906. I also made the comment that I had thought that 1mHz was weaker than 8 mHz but apparently I'm wrong.

Stupid dementia.

Still really confused I just told the wrong thread about my HomeCare ultrasound HT906. I also made the comment that I had thought that 1mHz was weaker than 8 mHz but apparently I'm wrong.

Stupid dementia.

[ramos]

The frequency of the ultrasound wave is not an indication of the power.  Normally, when used on pulse echo diagnostic devices, a lower frequency (about 2.0 megahertz, that means two million cycles per second) is used in order to penetrate the tissue to the depth of interest.  The handheld device is called a transducer and operates with an electronic screen that measures the time for the reflected pulse to return after bouncing back from  identified changes in density.  Hence, pulse echo.  Higher frequency transducers such as 8 megahertz, will not penetrate tissue as deeply and may only be used for small structures such as the eye.  Usually, for pulse echo devices used on the cranium, they use 2.0 Mhz.  That means megahertz.

 

Unless an operator is using the ultrasound device for creating images using pulse echo, there is then only the need to penetrate the skull (which would require the lower frequencies such as 1.0 or 2.0 megahertz.  Pulse echo transducers are focused to millimeter widths.

 

If the operator is not creating images, there is no need to use pulse echo.  A continuous sound wave would then suffice.  The pulse echo device would only have merit based on low used prices.

 

When attempting to evaluate what may be useful, it may be worthwhile to consider using much lower frequency devices such as simple vibrating devices.  I haven't researched the frequency they operate at but in creating a mechanical wave that is obviously felt, the depth of tissue that is affected is large (bigger than a cranium).  They are not focused.  Because the mechanical wave is continuous and with much higher power than a pulse echo device, no ultrasound gel is required to help the wave enter the body.  Just as a note, water is also good for the interface between the transducer and the cranium (anything would work that allows the sound wave to continue).

 

The question then becomes, "is the barrier that we are attempting to penetrate frequency dependent?".  I suspect not.  I think the main concern I would have is that if a mechanical vibrator used for more than a few seconds it might scramble one's brains.  Short periods of use should do less injury than head contact in a football game.  That would also be considered low frequency. 

[ramos]

A further note on the use of Doppler ultrasound.  A pulse echo instrument can be built to distinguish a change in frequency in the returning echos.  This is an indication that the target is moving (such as blood flow).  Unless the operator has the ability to show an image of the moving target, or listen to it (movement is converted to a sound such as a whistling up and down) there would be no value in using Doppler ultrasound.

 

On the other hand, if one could image the plaque, that would be valuable.

 

To those that are concerned about brain damage: I have used 2.0 Mhz. ultrasound transducers on my own cranium thousands of times decades ago.  This may explain my lack of coherency. 

[BieraK]

Hello guys this my question, Finally I found the papers I was looking for, I will quote a part of it:

By transducing the expression of exogenous light-activated ion channels or transporters in neurons, optogenetic methods confer the ability to stimulate and/or inhibit the activity of individual cells in brain circuits 15,16

Our data indicate that low-intensity, low-­frequency pulsed US activates a nonspecific population of cells within acoustic pressure field4,5 . Such nonspecific activation is a property shared by brain stimulation approaches using electrodes, TMS or tDCS in rodents and other animal species including humans, as referenced above. The diffraction-limited resolution of US for brain stimulation presently resides somewhere between those achievable with microelectrodes and TMS

 Choice of UNMOD stimulus waveform parameters. The acoustic frequency and intensity characteristics of an UNMOD stimulus waveform underlie its core effect on brain activity. As highlighted in Table 1, the acoustic frequencies used to manipulate neuronal activity range from 0.25 (ref. 5) to 7.0 MHz51 . Although lower frequencies of US have longer wavelengths and thus lower spatial resolutions compared with higher US frequencies, we recommend the use of acoustic frequencies <1 MHz for stimulating intact brain circuits with US. This is primarily because US frequencies <0.7 MHz represent a range in which optimal gains between transcranial transmission and brain absorption of US have been observed52–54 . In mice, we have found that the optimal waveforms for evoking intact brain circuit activity are composed of acoustic frequencies ranging between 0.25 and 0.65 MHz5 . Although we anticipate that other acoustic frequencies will be useful for UNMOD, we recommend initially implementing transducers having a center frequency between 0.2 and 0.7 MHz for intact brain stimulation with US

 Our previous observations indicate that the optimal US waveforms for stimulating brain activity in mice have temporal average intensity values between 30 and 300 mW cm−1 (ref. 14)

And from this second study: Transcranial Pulsed Ultrasound Stimulates Brain Circuits

 While these prior studies support the general potential of US for neurostimulation, high-intensity US can readily produce mechanical and/or thermal tissue damage (Dalecki, 2004; Hynynen and Clement, 2007; O’Brien, 2007; ter Haar, 2007), precluding it from use in noninvasive brain-circuit stimulation. At acoustic intensities <500 mW/cm2 , pulsed US can produce mechanical bioeffects without producing thermal effects or tissue damage (Dalecki, 2004; Dinno et al., 1989; O’Brien, 2007; ter Haar, 2007). In hippocampal slices, we previously reported low-intensity US (<300 mW/cm2 ), low-frequency US (<0.65 MHz) is capable of stimulating action potentials and synaptic transmission (Tyler et al., 2008). Since low-frequency US can be reliably transmitted through skull bone (Hynynen and Clement, 2007; Hynynen et al., 2004), the motivation for the present study was to investigate the influence of lowfrequency, low-intensity transcranial pulsed US on intact brain circuits in pursuit of a novel brain-stimulation method. We report that transcranial US is capable of safely and reliably stimulating in vivo brain circuits, such as the motor cortex and intact hippocampus of mice.

http://cdn2.hubspot....t=1427910054457

So in addition to frequency, other major parameter is the intensity?

 

Attached Files

•  Ultrasonic neuromodulation by brain stimulation with transcranial ultrasound.pdf   1.91MB   4 downloads

[pone11]

This appears to be a potentially major piece of research that is working it's way through the media now.   Researchers in Australia have discovered in mice that use of a therapeutic ultrasound on the brain can clear plaques of the type associated with alzheimers.   The mice under study regained their lost memory after the therapy, so they not only got clearance on an MRI but actually fundamentally altered the disease symptoms.

 

The original research is at:

 

http://stm.sciencema...t/7/278/278ra33

 

I was not able to find full text yet, so maybe someone else can publish that.

 

Here's an article discussing the research:

http://www.scienceal...memory-function

 

I chose to make this a separate topic rather than shoving it into the huge alzheimer's thread because the research is quite dramatic and we should probably have a separate tracker for this.  

 

Does anyone know of any clinician who currently uses this kind of therapy for any purpose on humans?   This seems like a low risk procedure, and it would not surprise me to find some osteopath who currently uses it for some kind of "soft" condition.   

[ceridwen]

I contacted the University they said that ordinary ultrasound wouldn't work because it doesn't make micro bubbles. They would say that though wouldn't they

[Kalliste]

Lostfalco tried something like it but it might have been something different.

[ceridwen]

we could ask him about it?

[Kalliste]

http://www.longecity...s/?fromsearch=1

[Mind]

 

 

This seems like a low risk procedure, and it would not surprise me to find some osteopath who currently uses it for some kind of "soft" condition.   

 

To asses risk, the next level of experimentation, should test this frequency of ultrasound on various tissues and cells, IMO. Would need to find out if the vibrational/mechanical motion that affects the plaques (breaks it into small pieces, I assume, that can be effectively removed innate systems?) affects other types of structures/tissues in the brain or body.

 

I would also add, that if this is proven safe, I would get it done "tomorrow" (so to speak). Seems like it could be one of the least toxic methods with the least side effects, of clearing plaques from the brain.

Edited by Mind, 20 April 2015 - 06:35 PM.

[Kalliste]

This is all very interesting. I wonder how hard it would be to measure the effects of this procedure in humans. I worry the first tests will be done on broken brains and give negative results.

[pone11]

Has anyone read what ultrasound frequencies and durations were used in the alzheimer's research?

[APBT]

FULL TEXT:  

Attached Files

•  Scanning ultrasound removes amyloid-b and restores memory in an Alzheimer’s disease mouse model.pdf   530.18KB   23 downloads

[Kalliste]

I wonder if the brain is the only organ that could benefit from this?

 

Maybe we should be SUS'ing our entire body once every X number of months/years

 

There are two threads about this now, maybe the moderators of this forum would consider merging them?

 

If there are others please post them here?

 

www.longecity.org/forum/topic/65846-transcranial-ultrasound-stimulation-tus/

 

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 21 April 2015 - 06:45 PM.