28 replies to this topic

[MarianVB]

I used 1 dose of 1.5mg of C60 in olive oil last sunday.

 

Within half an hour/one hour i started to feel very strange and bad. Since that time I live in a mist, have extreme feelings of emptiness and depersonalisation, brain fog, dizziness, vertigo, attacks of severe fatigue, very weird headaches, stomachache attacks, fear, nightmares, mild memory issues. It has been almost 5 days now and it's not getting any better, depersonalisation and headaches seem to get worse. My symptoms sometimes get much worse after I have eaten (f.e. yesterday I was in an asian restaurant and my symptoms increased majorly). I am frightened, feel like I have done damage to my brain and feel extremely stupid for experimenting with C60, since it seems not much is known yet about side effects and interactions with other substances.

 

Some background info:

 

In october i had a strong adverse reaction to Ciprofloxacin: anxiety, psychosis, nightmares. I was treated with antipsychotics and benzo's and had very strong adverse reactions: depersonalisation, motor and vision issues, cognitive issues. Imho Cipro amplified the negative side effects of psychiatric drugs. Things finally started to be a little bit better recently. My energy was going up, my fear down, and I started to feel somewhat more happy and alive again. I read that C60 did wonders for some Ciprofloxacin victims, read the marketing stories about it being totally non-toxic and decided to give it one try. Instead of helping me with recovery, one dose of C60 immediately made symptoms of Cipro (especially depersonalisation) come back in ten fold. 

 

I feel there is some weird and scary interaction going on between either the C60/Cipro (but it's half a year ago?!?) or C60/haloperidol (but I am withdrawing and was only on a small amount of 0.5mg/day) or all three. Toxic combination? CNS damage? Mitochondrial damage?    

 

I have now quit the C60 immediately, quit the haldol on monday (don't want more of the two substances in my body at the same time), spoke to a GP ("supplements don't do anything, good or bad, it's all in your head") and a psychiatrist ("just stop focussing on it and it will go away by itself"). I also don't use any multivitamin or other supplements anymore. None of it was of any help.  

 

Did anyone experience something similar or hear of something similar?

Any ideas on the cause, if or when this will go away and if there is anything I can do to recover?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

A reaction between C60 and fluoroquinolones has been reported before. See here.

[MarianVB]

Thanks! Do you know this person? Would he be willing to share his experiences on this message board or private message? Did he recover?

 

It's interesting that he mentions both the fluoroquinole reaction and the response to the sun. My symptoms are there all the time but get much worse when I go outdoors (it's sunny here this week), to the point that I had to call my mum to come and immediately take care of my son after a short walk outside. I had been thinking about the sun exposure, but could not imagine how a short sun exposure would cause symptoms like this. I wonder if there is some link to the phototoxicity issue.

Edited by MarianVB, 08 May 2015 - 02:27 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

A reaction between C60 and fluoroquinolones has been reported before. See here.

 

But is the Cipro going to hang around for 6+ months?  I'm asking as I honestly don't know.

 

Now the Haldol on the other hand is a very strong medication.  I'm really surprised to see it prescribed in a situation like this.

[bixbyte]

I suggest you ask for medical advice prior to quitting your Haldol.

This medication is an antipsychotic and I would be very careful to quit this medication if your doctor

prescribed it for your wellness.

 

 

 

 

 

[AdamI]

I took a herb once and got an allergic reaction that lasted maybe 6 months. Anyway if u think u had some kind of reaction, have u tried to just take some antihistamine. Since histamines can also change brain chemicals and cause behaviour change. Histamine is released when the body beleaves it's under attack...

So maybe try Telfast (active ingreident: Fexofenadine) worked for me anyway tried it after 5 months... my hearth started to beat normal. It was beating way harder and faster during those 5 month.

Worth a try I think!

 

[MarianVB]

Thanks.

 

Cipro - I have no idea about the exact mechanism, but there are people who experience side effects and flare ups of the Cipro permanently or years after it was prescribed. I have read somewhere that it can be stored in your body for a long time. Maybe it's locked away somewhere and the C60 brings it out?!? 

 

Haldol - thanks for your concern. I have discussed this with the psychiatrist, I was withdrawing anyway. Haloperidol is a horrible med indeed, but I was only using a small dose now (0.5mg... normal dosing is 2 to 10mg).

[Turnbuckle]

My C60 hypothesis is that the spherical fullerene molecule ups the production of ATP by plugging the cylindrical UCP pores by which the cells regulate energy production. Increasing ATP production also increases ROS, and if you are borderline from use of antibiotics, you may end up with a problem, especially if you throw in even more ROS with exposure to UV. So a supplement to increase the mitochondria's endogenous antioxidant glutathione might help. Either glutathione itself--like Setria brand L-glutathione reduced--or a precursor such as NAC--

 

we focused on characterizing the mechanistic effects of clinically relevant levels of bactericidal antibiotics on mammalian cells, both in vitro and in vivo. We showed that bactericidal antibiotics— quinolones, aminoglycosides, and β-lactams—caused mitochondrial dysfunction and ROS overproduction in mammalian cells, ultimately leading to the accumulation of oxidative tissue damage. We found that these deleterious effects could be alleviated by administration of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)–approved antioxidant, N-acetyl- L-cysteine (NAC), or prevented by preferential use of bacteriostatic antibiotics. These results reflect two therapeutic strategies to combat the adverse side effects of long-term antibiotic treatment.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3760005/

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 May 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[MarianVB]

That's interesting, thanks! Both Cipro and haldol cause mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress and I already felt that my body could not handle the meds anymore. Apparantly C60 increases ROS as well, I thought it would decrease it! I can imagine the combination is too much. I actually have some gluthatione here... but I am a little scared of adding anything to my body at the moment, whether it's supplements or prescription drugs. I will consider it though... it can't get much worse...

[MarianVB]

In case Someone is in the same position: glutathione seems to make it worse. More nausea, more headache, more fog. Doesn't glutathione also bring toxics out, and is it possibly to re-toxify yourself then? Especially if your body already had a problem getting rid of toxics?

I also found an interesting read, that Someone with previous cipro poisoning responsed with relapse to mitochondrial healing products like mitoq and pqq.

Edited by MarianVB, 09 May 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

In case Someone is in the same position: glutathione seems to make it worse. More nausea, more headache, more fog. Doesn't glutathione also bring toxics out, and is it possibly to re-toxify yourself then? Especially if your body already had a problem getting rid of toxics?

I also found an interesting read, that Someone with previous cipro poisoning responsed with relapse to mitochondrial healing products like mitoq and pqq.

 

 

This is paradoxical considering cipro and others are known to depress endogenous antioxidants, particularly glutathione. On the other hand, it seems these mitochondrial antioxidants and stimulants are acting the same way in making the floxing worse. This paper suggests that the long term damage may be due to epigenetic changes, though how that would make one sensitive to enhanced mitochondrial activity is mysterious--

 

 

Chloroquine and fluoroquinolone antibiotics

 

The quinolones are a family of broad-spectrum antibiotics. They

inhibit the bacterial DNA gyrase or the topoisomerase IV enzyme,

thereby inhibiting DNA replication and transcription [148].

Eukaryotic cells do not contain DNA gyrase or topoisomerase IV,

so it has been assumed that quinolones and fluoroquinolones have

no effect on human cells, but they have been shown to inhibit

eukaryotic DNA polymerase alpha and beta, and terminal deoxynucleotidyl

transferase [152], affect cell cycle progression and function

of lymphocytes in vitro [153], and cause other genotoxic

effects [154]. These agents have been associated with a diverse array

of side-effects including hypoglycemia, hyperglycemia, dysglycemia,

QTc prolongation, torsades des pointes, seizures,

phototoxicity, tendon rupture, and pseudomembranous colitis

[155]. Cases of persistent neuropathy resulting in paresthesias,

hypoaesthesias, dysesthesias, and weakness are quite common

[156]. Even more common are ruptures of the shoulder, hand,

Achilles, or other tendons that require surgical repair or result in

prolonged disability [157]. Interestingly, extensive changes in gene

expression were found in articular cartilage of rats receiving the

quinolone antibacterial agent ofloxacin, suggesting a potential epigenetic

mechanism for the arthropathy caused by these agents

[158]. It has also been documented that the incidence of hepatic

and dysrhythmic cardiovascular events following use of fluoroquinolones

is increased compared to controls, suggesting the possibility

of persistent gene expression changes in the liver and heart

[159].

 

 

 

Since the major output of mitochondria is ATP, this suggests some connection, such as via the ATP-sensitive potassium channels, and could be tied in with low potassium levels. (Pure speculation.)

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 09 May 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

A magnesium deficiency may be involved, and magnesium is needed by ATP--

 

If you or someone you love are placed on these dangerous antibiotics, for whatever reason, one of the ways you can compensate for this toxicity is by taking magnesium. ...animal studies have shown that magnesium deficient animals can develop similar damage to those exposed to fluroquinolone drugs.  Lack of extracellular magnesium impairs the function of integrins which are transmembrane proteins that connect the cells to the extracellular matrix proteins which provide the functional strength for collagen.

 

http://articles.merc...ntibiotics.aspx

 

 

[niner]

In case Someone is in the same position: glutathione seems to make it worse. More nausea, more headache, more fog. Doesn't glutathione also bring toxics out, and is it possibly to re-toxify yourself then? Especially if your body already had a problem getting rid of toxics?

I also found an interesting read, that Someone with previous cipro poisoning responsed with relapse to mitochondrial healing products like mitoq and pqq.

 

Glutathione is an antioxidant that is produced by the body.  It's not involved in getting rid of toxic substances as far as I'm aware, although it might detoxify certain oxidant poisons.  This would render them harmless, but not get rid of them.  The body has a lot of other systems for getting rid of molecules that don't belong.   MitoQ is a classic mitochondrial antioxidant, and C60oo is structurally similar to it.  (an antioxidant moiety attached to a polar head group by a ~ten carbon linkage)  Mitochondrial antioxidants have been shown to improve mitochondrial function by reducing the peroxidation of cardiolipin, which in turn improves ETC efficiency.   PQQ improves mitochondrial function, but I don't know the mechanism.  The point of all this is that people who have certain types of quinolone injuries seem to be harmed by potent antioxidants and/or improved mitochondrial function.   I have no idea what the mechanism for that would be.  It's a puzzlement.

[MarianVB]

Yes, it's a puzzle to me as well and it frustrates me that I can't solve it. Someone with ME/CFS, which I believe is also caused by mitochondrial dysfunction (?), had a strong and partly permanent adverse response as well, a combination of gut and mental problems.  

 

I have also read somewhere that C60 can increase the toxicity of certain other substances. There are quite different interactions, either increasing or decreasing toxicity. http://www.sciencedi...166445X07004250 I have no idea how this works with the olive oil type. Maybe there is some weird interaction going on with C60&fluoride, making it more toxic? Or Cipro ruined my liver enzymes, this led to a build up of toxins in my body, C60 enhances toxicity of some of these substances even more, brain and body can't bear the toxic load and crash... so C60 is bad for people with a big toxic load and/or bad methylation? Or am I rambling now?

 

I guess the rats in the study were in the dark and on a controlled diet, not sunbathing or eating things like msg or ciprofloxacin

 

I seem to respond badly to everything at the moment. C60 brought back all symptoms. Asian food was a huge trigger (msg toxicity increased?). Sunlight is a trigger (phototoxicity?). Glutathione was a trigger (but there were some other substances in the capsule as well). Most food and drinks make me vomit (cipro causes reflux and vomitting). Maybe my body is just refusing everything now to avoid further intoxication.  

 

Argh. This is not fun. I'll try fasting for a couple of days now, since that's what my body is obviously telling me. Pfff... learned my lesson not to experiment with unknown substances... hope it goes away some time. :-(

Edited by MarianVB, 09 May 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Anecdotal report on magnesium--CIPRO & MAGNESIUM

 

Within days of taking the medication, I noticed that the tendons in my fingers and hands were aching: a wicked feeling that I had never felt before. “Was I typing too much yesterday? But my hands have never felt like this. I can feel every aspect of each tendon.”

 

As the hours rolled on, my body began to ache worse than any Fibromyalgia pain that had ever plagued me. Near my shoulder blade, I felt a sharp stabbing pain. As I attempted to walk, I experienced leg cramps. In my mind, I went from my usual sunny disposition to a severe depression with a doll-like stare over my eyes. My stomach had an ache that lasted for days...

 

Within moments of searching online, I found two accounts of people turning almost completely around with the help of topical magnesium. Springing from my chair, for the first time in a week, I went to the cabinet and pulled out a bottle of magnesium cream I had almost forgotten about. Applying this cream to multiple thin-skinned areas of my body, two to three times a day for two weeks, I desperately hoped this would relieve some of my symptoms. Expecting my recovery to take anywhere between 10-14 days, I was elated when I woke up on the second day as if nothing had ever happened. The nightmare was over!

 

Attributing my quick recovery to my short duration of taking the medication, I realized I am one of the lucky ones. I escaped, but many others still suffer or still have the prospect of also falling victim to this horror.

 

 

 

[niner]

Yes, it's a puzzle to me as well and it frustrates me that I can't solve it. Someone with ME/CFS, which I believe is also caused by mitochondrial dysfunction (?), had a strong and partly permanent adverse response as well, a combination of gut and mental problems.  

 

I have also read somewhere that C60 can increase the toxicity of certain other substances. There are quite different interactions, either increasing or decreasing toxicity. http://www.sciencedi...166445X07004250 I have no idea how this works with the olive oil type. Maybe there is some weird interaction going on with C60&fluoride, making it more toxic? Or Cipro ruined my liver enzymes, this led to a build up of toxins in my body, C60 enhances toxicity of some of these substances even more, brain and body can't bear the toxic load and crash... so C60 is bad for people with a big toxic load and/or bad methylation? Or am I rambling now?

 

I guess the rats in the study were in the dark and on a controlled diet, not sunbathing or eating things like msg or ciprofloxacin

 

I seem to respond badly to everything at the moment. C60 brought back all symptoms. Asian food was a huge trigger (msg toxicity increased?). Sunlight is a trigger (phototoxicity?). Glutathione was a trigger (but there were some other substances in the capsule as well). Most food and drinks make me vomit (cipro causes reflux and vomitting). Maybe my body is just refusing everything now to avoid further intoxication.  

 

Argh. This is not fun. I'll try fasting for a couple of days now, since that's what my body is obviously telling me. Pfff... learned my lesson not to experiment with unknown substances... hope it goes away some time. :-(

 

I'm sorry that you're feeling so horrible.  I hope that time will heal you.   The increase in toxicity in the paper you linked was a case of c60 aggregates acting like activated charcoal, absorbing and concentrating environmental contaminants that were released after organisms ingested the c60.  That isn't going to be an issue with c60oo, since it's a molecular species, so things are not going to absorb onto it in any significant way.  Cipro messed up something in your body that is now aggravated by certain antioxidants and/or more efficient mitochondria.  Since the same effect has been seen with C60oo, MitoQ, glutathione, and PQQ, I really don't think it's an issue of any of these things damaging something.  It's more that the damage done by Cipro is made worse by the normal actions of these four compounds.

 

The person with ME/CFS, did they have a problem with c60oo or with cipro?  We've had reports of c60oo being really great for a guy with ME/CFS, but the effect faded away over time.  He then switched to MitoQ and had good results with that.

[MarianVB]

Thanks!

This man had an issue with c60, mainly gi problems were lasting.

In me, i feel there is Some weird interplay beteren c60 and cipro. Cipro damaged a lot of course. But there are others noticing brain fog headaches and sleepiness with c60 as well... Could it cause mild inflammative response in the brain or overexite the brain? I noticed msg increased symptoms exponentially btw, which is more often seen in cipro victims.

[MarianVB]

Hurray! I decided to focus on food and herbs, natural healing. Found something that seems to help for the nausea and headache.

Fresh ginger. Is supposed to be very helpful against nausea, inflammation and reverses msg induced symptoms and brain damage.

[MarianVB]

Ginger also increases neurotransmitters. Haldol, c60 and msg all seem to deplete neurotransmitters like dopamine. I am not fully okay but a lot better, happier and more clear. I also decided to stop worrying.

[niner]

Ginger also increases neurotransmitters. Haldol, c60 and msg all seem to deplete neurotransmitters like dopamine. I am not fully okay but a lot better, happier and more clear. I also decided to stop worrying.

 

I'm glad to hear that.  Are you feeling any better physically, or just relieved of mental stress?  (that's a very big part of feeling awful)  Have you started the ginger yet, and if so, did it help?

[bixbyte]

Ginger also increases neurotransmitters. Haldol, c60 and msg all seem to deplete neurotransmitters like dopamine. I am not fully okay but a lot better, happier and more clear. I also decided to stop worrying.

 

 

Hi, I am reading multiple C60 posts and 

After some research, I think C60 blocks certain medicines from working.

Maybe you were taking Haldol and the C60 blocked it.

C60 might also block painkillers, narcotics, morphine and Antidepressants.

Someone will have to do some research in the future about taking C60 with other medications.

[MarianVB]

That could be part of the problem, since haldol withdrawal also gives problems like fatigue and headaches.

I also think c60 had odd effects on it's own though. It's just not a natural thing to put in your body. And i suspect some link with msg. I have never been so sensitive to msg and now i have a heavy reaction to that. It could also explain why vitamins and glutathione give a reaction - isn't there msg in the caps?

I read somewhere c60 raises acetylcholine and msg does as well. This rise overexites your brain, kills neurons, gives you brain fog and decreases other neurotransmitters. I probably was already low in dopamine, serotonine etc and higher in acetylcholine because of haldol. Might be another link.

Ginger helped against nausea and headaches and very temporarily lifter my mood. No lasting effect for the later till now.

Edited by MarianVB, 11 May 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 It could also explain why ... glutathione gives a reaction - isn't there msg in the caps?
 

 

There is no msg, but glutathione is one-third glutamate.

 

Glutathione is a Physiologic Reservoir of Neuronal Glutamate

 

Glutamate, the principal excitatory neurotransmitter of the brain, participates in a multitude of physiologic and pathologic processes, including learning and memory. Glutathione, a tripeptide composed of the amino acids glutamate, cysteine, and glycine, serves important cofactor roles in antioxidant defense and drug detoxification, but glutathione deficits occur in multiple neuropsychiatric disorders. Glutathione synthesis and metabolism are governed by a cycle of enzymes, the γ-glutamyl cycle, which can achieve intracellular glutathione concentrations of 1-10 millimolar. Because of the considerable quantity of brain glutathione and its rapid turnover, we hypothesized that glutathione may serve as a reservoir of neural glutamate. We quantified glutamate in HT22 hippocampal neurons, PC12 cells and primary cortical neurons after treatment with molecular inhibitors targeting three different enzymes of the glutathione metabolic cycle. Inhibiting 5-oxoprolinase and γ-glutamyl transferase, enzymes that liberate glutamate from glutathione, leads to decreases in glutamate. In contrast, inhibition of γ-glutamyl cysteine ligase, which uses glutamate to synthesize glutathione, results in substantial glutamate accumulation. Increased glutamate levels following inhibition of glutathione synthesis temporally precede later effects upon oxidative stress.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3923312/

 

 

 

So, anything that inhibited γ-glutamyl cysteine ligase (GCL) would increase glutamate and decrease glutathione. Which is not good. But if you could increase the other two peptides going into glutathione, the body's load of glutamate could get used up. Cysteine, in particular, and Durk and Sandy  Pearson suggest taking it for this purpose--

Of the three amino acids comprising glutathione, cysteine is in the shortest supply; thus glutathione synthesis is limited by cysteine availability. A very recent paper reported on the effects of various amino acids on cellular glutathione levels. Cysteine was found to enhance glutathione (GSH) biosynthesis enzyme activity and increase cellular GSH levels. In fact, the researchers noted, “. . . supplementation with Cys [cysteine] would be a reasonable strategy for inducing de novo GSH synthesis.”

 

http://www.life-enha...i-aging-regimen

 

 

And presumably you would lower your glutamate levels while increasing your antioxidant levels. Whereas taking glutathione itself would not lower glutamate as it already has it in its chemical structure. 

 

I read somewhere c60 raises acetylcholine and msg does as well. This rise overexites your brain, kills neurons, gives you brain fog and decreases other neurotransmitters. 

 

You may be thinking of the Zebrafish study, in which C60 was dispersed into DMSO (as undissolved particles) and injected. The particle size was typically a hundred to a million times larger than dissolved C60 and thus not likely to be acting in the same way.

 

 

Another study showed that msg treatment results in a lowering of several neurotransmitters, and ginger root extract increased them again. Also--

 

From these results, we can say that the ginger extract has a neuroprotective role against monosodium glutamate toxicity effect.

 

 

And finally, a connection between ciprofloxacin and glutamate--

 

These results suggest that elevation of brain glutamate levels with consequent oxidative stress and increase in the expression and activity of brain inducible NO synthase may play a pivotal role in ciprofloxacin-induced convulsive seizures.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22542655

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 May 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Magic imagination]

Hi MarianVB, 

 

So very sorry you're experiencing such distress. 

 

You may want to research fluoroquinolone toxicity. The effects can be debilitating and long-lasting, manifesting and re-manifesting in various mystifying ways. There seems for some people to be a heightened sensitivity that results from the initial toxic overload. This can be seen with others who become chemically sensitive. The body gets overloaded and thereafter has little tolerance. I would also suggest trying to eliminate all sources of fluoride from your intake. The "fluoro" part refers to fluoride. It can hide in a number of sources. If your water is fluoridated, you might consider a specialized filter for your drinking and bathing water. Also, fluoridated water in aluminum cookware is a recipe for disaster, as the fluoride apparently can draw aluminum out of the pot, binds with it, and lodge in your brain. Also consider being very careful about other fluoride drugs (requires research as it is present in a lot of not-obvious places), including various anti-depressants. I am aware of people who have significantly reduced their symptoms by reducing/eliminating fluoride intake. 

 

All the best in your recovery!

[MarianVB]

Thanks for your responses. I will avoid fluoride and glutamate from now on... I think glutamate is very important here. Excess glutamate is also linked to schizophrenia (i had a psychosis).

[YOLF]

 

In case Someone is in the same position: glutathione seems to make it worse. More nausea, more headache, more fog. Doesn't glutathione also bring toxics out, and is it possibly to re-toxify yourself then? Especially if your body already had a problem getting rid of toxics?

I also found an interesting read, that Someone with previous cipro poisoning responsed with relapse to mitochondrial healing products like mitoq and pqq.

 

 

This is paradoxical considering cipro and others are known to depress endogenous antioxidants, particularly glutathione. On the other hand, it seems these mitochondrial antioxidants and stimulants are acting the same way in making the floxing worse. This paper suggests that the long term damage may be due to epigenetic changes, though how that would make one sensitive to enhanced mitochondrial activity is mysterious--

 

 

Chloroquine and fluoroquinolone antibiotics

 

The quinolones are a family of broad-spectrum antibiotics. They

inhibit the bacterial DNA gyrase or the topoisomerase IV enzyme,

thereby inhibiting DNA replication and transcription [148].

Eukaryotic cells do not contain DNA gyrase or topoisomerase IV,

so it has been assumed that quinolones and fluoroquinolones have

no effect on human cells, but they have been shown to inhibit

eukaryotic DNA polymerase alpha and beta, and terminal deoxynucleotidyl

transferase [152], affect cell cycle progression and function

of lymphocytes in vitro [153], and cause other genotoxic

effects [154]. These agents have been associated with a diverse array

of side-effects including hypoglycemia, hyperglycemia, dysglycemia,

QTc prolongation, torsades des pointes, seizures,

phototoxicity, tendon rupture, and pseudomembranous colitis

[155]. Cases of persistent neuropathy resulting in paresthesias,

hypoaesthesias, dysesthesias, and weakness are quite common

[156]. Even more common are ruptures of the shoulder, hand,

Achilles, or other tendons that require surgical repair or result in

prolonged disability [157]. Interestingly, extensive changes in gene

expression were found in articular cartilage of rats receiving the

quinolone antibacterial agent ofloxacin, suggesting a potential epigenetic

mechanism for the arthropathy caused by these agents

[158]. It has also been documented that the incidence of hepatic

and dysrhythmic cardiovascular events following use of fluoroquinolones

is increased compared to controls, suggesting the possibility

of persistent gene expression changes in the liver and heart

[159].

 

 

 

Since the major output of mitochondria is ATP, this suggests some connection, such as via the ATP-sensitive potassium channels, and could be tied in with low potassium levels. (Pure speculation.)

 

If she's got damaged mitochondria that are damaged from two different medications and you throw a mitochondrial antiox into the mix and they start producing more energy and ROS, that might lead to some problems... Think about the engine in your car running with something wrong with it, add a supercharger and your just supercharged the problem. If C60 is mimetic for SOD and possibly Glutathione and other upper level antiox, it's going to compete elsewhere and drive more of the C60 into the mitos IMHO. 

 

Perhaps what she needs is more ROS to deplete the C60 that won't cause acute injury. Maybe eating some refined fats and carbohydrates, and if that improves things. If it does, keeping eating junk and stay away from fruits or anything enriched with E or C. If improvement persists, hen maybe move on to some stronger other form of ROS such as ??? (excess junk food?) and then some more highly potent inhibitor such as acetaminophen? Aceraminophen can be very dangerous despite just being tylenol, don't go using more then the recommended dose on the bottle. It's the number one cause of acute liver failure in the US IIRC.

 

C60 is assumed to be highly recyclable though, so suppression will need to be continuous.

 

I'd wait for others to give feedback on my suggestions before trying it, but eating junk food shouldn't hurt too much.

 

This may also be telling you that you need to boost mitochondrial health or have something else going on that is affecting your mitos that you should address. 

[sensei]

I believe it is related to GABA receptors. Cipro negatively affect GABA receptors magnesium is a allosteric modulator of GABA receptors and I personally have noticed that GABA agonists like benzodiazepines are rendered much less effective by c60. As is alcohol which is also a known GABA agonist.

[MarianVB]

Yes, that could explain it. Since Ciprofloxacin I have extremely bad responses to everything that does something bad to GABA - zyprexa withdrawal, benzodiazepines, alcohol. And apparently C60.

[sensei]

Yes, that could explain it. Since Ciprofloxacin I have extremely bad responses to everything that does something bad to GABA - zyprexa withdrawal, benzodiazepines, alcohol. And apparently C60.

 

Actually I should have identified benzodiazepines and ethanol as Positive Allosteric Modulators as well (they are not agonists).

 

That said,

 

I believe that somehow C60 interferes with the positive allosteric modulation of the GABA receptors (a and b). I conclude this by my own observation of a 350% increase in dose needed to get the same effect using valium (14 mg vs 4 mg), and the numerous anecdotal reports, as well as my own experience of the difficulty to become intoxicated by ethanol when taking large doses of C60.

 

Downregulation of GABA results in an imbalance in the GABA-glutamate neurotransmitter system in the brain.

 

If one is sensitive to glutamate downregulation of PAM effects on the GABA receptor complex by C60 may cause the same effects as benzo or alcohol withdrawal:

 

tension (physical and mental)

gastrointestinal issues

irritability

insomnia

etc

 

 

In my own experience large doses of C60 helped me heal more quickly following benzo withdrawal

 

Disclosure -- I have ingested as much as 135 mg of C60 in a single dose, and multiple doses of 45 mg in a week

Edited by sensei, 11 December 2015 - 10:47 PM.