20 replies to this topic

[JAGuy2000]

Hello guys,

 

I'll make this short.  L-Taurine has numerous of benefits, but it is hard on the digestive track.  People think L-Taurine is an amino acid, but it is actually an organic acid along the same lines as malic and citric acid.  To get around its harshness, I think we should buffer it using a combination of sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate, and maybe magnesium carbonate.  Here is my current recipe, but it needs to be improved and  thought some of the scientific minds here could help...

 

Spring Water = 8 oz

Potassium Bicarbonate = 1/32 = 37.5 mg

Magnesium Carbonate = 1/16 = 43.6 mg

Taurine = 1/8 = 125 mg 

 

 

My measurements could be off...  I bought a digital scale that I will use at a later date to reformulate.  The Potassium Bicarbonate flushed too much sodium out of my body, so I am going to replace the Magnesium Carbonate with Sodium Bicarbonate.  I also plan to double the Taurine amount.  Feel free to improve my formula and share it.  Please be more scientific that myself and use a digital scale and pH reader.

[Turnbuckle]

Why not just buy magnesium (or magnesium/potassium) taurate?

Edited by Turnbuckle, 25 May 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[JAGuy2000]

Why not just buy magnesium (or magnesium/potassium) taurate?

 

Hi Turnbuckle,

 

I want to be able to control the amount of taurine in the solution.  Existing supplements have too much taurine which causes major diuretic effects.  Or, some supplements have it combined with malic acid to an already existing acidic solution.  In my opinion, there are only two good buffered taurine supplements in the market...

 

http://www.pastorefo...&Show=TechSpecs

 

http://www.aor.ca/pr.../mag-k-taurine/

 

Both of these supplements are a bit hard to obtain.  The Pastore one is very expensive and sold at select retailers.  The AOR is only sold in Canada at the moment, but can be shipped to the US.  I can obtain the L-Taurine Powder and the carbonates faster using Amazon Same-Day shipping.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Existing supplements have too much taurine which causes major diuretic effects.  

 

 

If existing magnesium taurate supplements have "too much taurine," then buy the powder and take only what you want. You can by a kg from vitaspace for $36.

[JAGuy2000]

 

 

 

Existing supplements have too much taurine which causes major diuretic effects.  

 

 

If existing magnesium taurate supplements have "too much taurine," then buy the powder and take only what you want. You can by a kg from vitaspace for $36.

 

 

Hi again Turnbuckle,

 

Everyone, I only have one post left after this one.  So, if you don't hear from me, then that is why...  About supplementing magnesium taurate, I think it probably varies by manufacturer.  Please take a look at the following magnesium taurate supplements...

 

http://www.pastorefo...ProductCode=001- One Capsule = 100 mg Magnesium / 356 mg Taurine

 

http://www.swansonvi...100-mg-120-tabs- One Capsule = 100 mg Magnesium / 1250 mg Taurine

 

http://www.swansonvi...125-mg-180-caps- Unknown, but it is probably along the same lines as the Swanson Brand due to how my body reacts

 

All these brands claim to be fully reacted complexes.  I am no chemist, so I don't understand how the same magnesium amounts yield different Taurine amounts.  I rather just control the portions myself.

 

Turnbuckle, I appreciate you are taking the time to respond to me.  Please keep it coming!

 

Here is the new formula I may try later on today...

 

It is inspired by Bi-Carb Formula... https://www.pureform...laire-labs.html

 

Spring Water = 8 oz

Potassium Bicarbonate = 94 mg

Sodium Bicarbonate = 94 mg

Taurine = 500 mg

 

Again, I am just using "Supplemental Facts" from different supplements to come up with a solution.  Nothing scientific at all, which is why I am reaching out to you guys.

[Turnbuckle]

The first product appears to be mislabeled. Either it has less magnesium in it than claimed, or not all of the magnesium comes from magnesium taurate, as magnesium taurate should have only about 8% magnesium by weight. In any case, you would not have too much taurate.

[JAGuy2000]

A better formula...

 

Spring Water = 8 oz

Potassium Bicarbonate = 125 mg

Sodium Bicarbonate = 125 mg

Taurine = 375 mg

 

I think the acid-buffer ratio is perfect now.  1.5 (acid) : 1 (buffer).  I am actually excited and confident to try this formula.  All the benefits of taurine without the awful side effects.  It is slightly acidic, but not too acidic.  It will replace any sodium displaced.  If I feel it makes my body too alkaline, then I will raise it back to 500 mg of taurine (2 : 1 ratio).  I guess I will chat with you guys tomorrow (Ran out of daily posts).

[VerdeGo]

Have you noticed any side effects with taurine beyond the acidity? Not only did it elevate my mood in the days following use, it also made me very lethargic and greatly lightened my stool color (perhaps increased bile?) during the day I used it. I've been hesitant to use it since, but by all accounts it seems to be about the healthiest substance someone can consume. 

[ironfistx]

THe magnesium taurate I use makes me sleepy. 

[JAGuy2000]

Hello guys,

 

I discovered that doing exact measurements each time is a tedious tasks, so I decided to stick with the measure spoons.  I tried this formulation yesterday...

 

Spring Water = 8 oz

Potassium Bicarbonate = 1/32

Sodium Bicarbonate = 1/32

Taurine = 1/16

 

I think the Sodium portion is too large...  I almost gave myself a mini-stroke due to the raise in blood pressure.

 

I am going to give this experiment one more try...  I am going to buy one of these mini scoops...   http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B0044EOKLI

 

Here is the formulation I am going to try...

 

Spring Water = 8 oz

Potassium Bicarbonate = 2 scoops of 30-35mg

Sodium Bicarbonate = 1 scoop of 10-15mg

Taurine = 3-4 scoops of 30-35mg

 

Please thank your big brother JAGuy2000 for being a lab rat.  I am through with Taurine if this does not work out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zorba990]

I have a somewhat sensitive stomach, yet 3-6g taurine does not give me issues. Are you sure your source is pure? I use NOW powder.

[JAGuy2000]

I have a somewhat sensitive stomach, yet 3-6g taurine does not give me issues. Are you sure your source is pure? I use NOW powder.

 

Hello Zobra990,

 

Thank you for stopping by this thread.  I have tried various taurine supplements, but I still get some irritation whether it is in my stomach or intestines.  I think it is because of the following issues:

 

1.  I have depleted my alkaline/bicarbonate mineral reserve in my body.  I need to take a supplement like Klaire Labs Bi-Carb Formula or  Enzymedica pH-Basic to get it back in order.

 

2.  I think I probably have a lack of protective mucus layer in my intestines.  I need to take L-Threonine, L-Proline, L-Lysine, L-Glycine, and L-Serine to get it back in order.  Probably some N-A-G and MSM also.

 

Overall guys, I think I probably need to stop the experimenting after the high blood pressure accident because I don't want to do any irreversible damage.  I think I will try again and that will be it.  Also guys, I have contacted iHerb and Swanson Vitamins about stocking Mag-K-Taurine by AOR.  Perhaps, if you guys are interested in Taurine like I am, you guys could contact them also and we can expedite this process before I hurt myself.

[zorba990]

Sounds like a fairly severe intestinal issue. Have you had an upper gi test? In any case usually zinc carnosine , dgl, chamomile tea, and phoschol are indicated for gastritis with low mucosal layer. Glutamine helps some people as well, but testing including h pylori test might be best if the otc stuff isn't fixing the issue. Definately stop anything that increases the irritation.

Try Mag threonate with a full meal.

Edited by zorba990, 28 May 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[JAGuy2000]

Hello everyone,

 

Your big brother aka Taurine Man aka Lab Rat aka the Hard Working Man in Natural Alternatives is back.  I am going to try the mixture that I proposed in my last post, but I am waiting on my mini scoops to come in the mail.  In the meantime, I am going to buy some magnesium oxide powder, and try to make my own bootleg magnesium taurate compound.  Like Turnbuckle stated, the average magnesium taurate has 8% magnesium.  I think the average magnesium taurate pill ratio is 100 mg Magnesium : 1250 mg Taurine.  Almost 13 times as much taurine than magnesium.

 

I plan to make my mixture with the ratio of 1 (Magnesium) : 3 (Taurine).  If this works, then I may do the same for Malic Acid.

 

[rcol1441]

I'm enthused about taurine for multiple reasons, including the fact that it quickly brought my mildly elevated blood pressue back to normal.  (Whether that effect persists for more than the 3 weeks I've been taking it, or at less than the 3 grams per day I've been taking, remains to be seen.)

 

But isn't anyone concerned about the fact that reflux of taurine-containing bile and taurine-based bile acids (among others) has been strongly linked to Barrett's esophagus and thus esophageal cancer?  For example:

http://gut.bmj.com/c...5/598.abstract7 and

 

http://www.urmc.roch...dex.cfm?id=3476

 

Or simply Google "taurocholic bile acid reflux esophagus."

 

I have acid reflux, for which I take PPI's.  It seemed to be well controlled, especially after I lost a lot of weight, so I had cut my omeprazole from daily to every-other day.  But after an upper-GI endoscopy in 2011 I was told I have (silent-)reflux-related corrosive esophagitis (non-Barrett's), and that I should take the omeprazole back to daily.  At another endoscopy a year ago I was told the esophagitis had healed.  But naturally I'm concerned, especially in case I am also having silent bile reflux (and once every month or two I do wake up at night with a fiery liquid shooting into my throat).  As you may know, even people who have no heartburn or indigestion may have acid and/or bile reflux without even knowing it.

 

In supplementation discussions, every time I see taurine mentioned as promoting the creation of bile, and being involved in bile acid conjugation, it is stated as if this is entirely a positive (e.g., to enhance digestion of meats).  But aren't there some red flags here regarding espohageal cancer risk -- and perhaps colorectal cancer risk as well (where bile has also been implicated as a possible contributor)?

Edited by rcol1441, 12 June 2015 - 09:10 AM.

[Treath]

I've been taking 2 grams of Taurine daily and on an empty stomach for the past 3 years.
No stomach or esophagus issues have ever arisen in my experience.
I have to take it to keep my heart in rhythm.

[rcol1441]

Thanks for the reply.  Do you take the full 2 grams at one time?

[Treath]

Thanks for the reply. Do you take the full 2 grams at one time?

No, I take one gram in the morning and then one gram at night.

Edited by Treath, 13 June 2015 - 06:40 AM.

[Duchykins]

This thread doesn't make sense... taurine is sulfur- containing compound derived from methionine (amino acid) and one of its uses is for supporting bile production and flow, improving digestive functions and reducing heartburn and acid reflux.  It makes no sense that taurine in appropriate doses would be "too acidic" for the stomach.  Malic acid is a dicarboxylic acid and taurine is not, these are not comparable.  The  dicarboxylic acids themselves are not as acidic as OP makes them seem; eg others would include glutamic and aspartic acid. 

 

I understand that taurine may be disturbing the OP.    The solution is definitely NOT taking a bunch of bicarbonate because that can be dangerous, as OP learned.

 

There's a lot of bullshit about acid reflux primarily perpetuated by the media trying to sell people antiacids, etc.  These are inappropriate long-term solutions for many people with heartburn/reflux who actually don't have enough acid in their stomach (but don't have ulcers).  The problem is NOT too much acid or too much bile; it's actually not enough acid, which means food isn't being digested swiftly enough which causes its own problems.  That is why home remedies like apple cider vinegar (should be organic, unfiltered and containing all the naturally-occurring enzymes) are popular.  That's also why taurine can help with reflex especially in older people who are making less bile.

 

JAGuy, instead of turning to taking more amino acids to help your GI as a first choice, try some kefir.   But keep in mind that there are many different causes of reflux, sometimes really easy-to-miss things like not having enough magnesium.

 

 

Edited by Duchykins, 13 June 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[rcol1441]

I definitely seem to be seeing more reflux related symptoms since taking taurine.  Not classic heartburn, but things like coughing and a "frog in the throat" feeling.  They've already subsided some in the days since I cut back on the amount of taurine.  Yes, that's highly anecdotal and may not be a typical reaction, but AFAIK the assertions about *insufficient* acid being the "real" cause of reflux are anecdotal as well.  In the past I have tried things like ACV and Betaine HCI and they just made things much worse.  (After the esophagitis episode I'd now be afraid go near those, except for reasonable amounts of ACV as part of food dishes).  That said, I do worry about PPIs, and some of the actual scientific evidence of the harm potential they have, especially in the long-term (in addition to the highly-proven short-term benefits for symptom relief and healing of some types of ulcers and erosive esophagitis).

 

As an aside, I find the charade hilarious where the monograph's for OTC PPI's warn "don't take continuously for more than 14 days except under supervision of a doctor," while on TV commercials Larry the Cable Guy repeatedly exclaims, "I take Prilosec OTC *every day* for my frequent heartburn!  Why get heartburn in the first place?"

Edited by rcol1441, 14 June 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[Duchykins]

Yeah the PPIs have their own issues.  My husband's doc put him on Prilosec a good while ago and he eventually started to get a daily general malaise.  It's because PPIs interfere with the body's ability to absorb cobalamin, ascorbic acid, calcium, magnesium and I think a few other nutrients.  Sublingual methyl B-12 and other supps helped a lot but didn't bring him back to 100%, I'm fairly sure there's more going on we just don't know about.

 

And he still guzzles the pink stuff at least 3 times a week.

 

He's a bit of a whiner but recently I've been telling him to drink my kefir instead of pepto and just see what happens.  He says they "work the same" on his stomach except that if he remembers to do the kefir instead of the pepto, he usually can go longer before his stomach is hurting again