12 replies to this topic

[Speculosity]

Hi everyone, 

 

I've been doing a lot of research on striatal neurogenesis and BDNF, and found that most oral supplements that increase it, only do so (or possibly say they only do so) in the hippocampus.

I've had a dark past with drugs (I quit for obvious reasons), and I believe my stratum is less functional than it was before, as my working memory isn't as good, and I can actually feel it (I know you can't "feel" your brain, but I feel pressure within the exact area) strained in my head during the day, especially when I'm doing complex tasks. It's weird.

 

Anyway here's what I've learned so far (will include links to studies for any person that stumbles upon this from google with the same question):

- Retinoic Acid (metabolite from Vitamin A) has been shown to induce striatal neurogenesis. 1 2

 

- Exercise increases BDNF in the striatum. 1

 

- Some cells made in the subventricular zone of the brain actually migrate to other places in the brain like the striatum to settle. (solution would be to somehow increase neurogenesis here, if anyone knows how) 1

 

- An ampakine (I don't know if this will apply to ALL ampakines) have been shown to increase BDNF in striatum. 1

 

 

I started taking Vitamin A, and running more, and ordered sunifiram (an ampakine) to test and see what happens, but I want to see what else I can do. 

 

 

I know science is still trying to find a better answer to this question in order to treat and cure diseases like Huntington's Disease, but I would love to learn more leads and clues for this dilemma if you guys know any.

[gamesguru]

a relationship to keep in mind ...
 

striatal BDNF expression may be altered by activation of dopamine receptors DR1 and DR2.¹⁴²

^{http://www.dovepress...t-article-JRLCR}

 

 

here's a few I came across

L-theanine elevates intracellular Ca²⁺ concentration in cortical neurons [hmm ... see below study]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21861094

 

BDNF induces sustained intracellular Ca²⁺ elevation

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24811179

 

Neuroprotective effects of 17B-estradiol and extracts from Panax Quinquefolius L., Ginkgo Biloba and Hypericum Perforatum against MPTP induced nigral-striatal neuronal degeneration [probably via induction of neurotrophic synthesis]

http://hub.hku.hk/handle/10722/33744

 

Effects of Ginkgo Lactone on the Expressions of BDNF in Cortical Neuron

en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-HAIX200506024.htm

 

Ginseng (Rg₅) up-regulates BDNF in rat cerebral cortex

https://books.google...actors"&f=false

 

Epimedium and Polygonatum elevate BDNF levels in the striatum [courtesy of Flex]

http://en.cnki.com.c...XZ201103033.htm

 

Olive polyphenols administration down-regulates nerve growth factor and brain-derived neurotrophic factor in the mouse striatum and frontal cortex

http://www.sciencedi...899900712004303

 

 

[gamesguru]

Same relationship [see above post], I think it generalizes to many brain regions ...

Dopamine receptor activation promotes adult neurogenesis in subventricular zone

http://www.sciencedi...014488609002799

 

Dopamine regulates brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression in cultured embryonic mouse striatal cells

http://journals.lww....trophic.25.aspx

 

Vascular health is relevant to nerve growth ...

Production of NGF, BDNF and GDNF in mouse astrocyte cultures is strongly enhanced by a cerebral vasodilator

http://www.sciencedi...304394005000121

 

VEGF overexpression enhances striatal neurogenesis in brain of adult rat

http://onlinelibrary....21091/abstract

 

Platelet-Derived Growth Factor (PDGF-BB) and Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) induce striatal neurogenesis in adult rats

http://www.sciencedi...306452204011248

 

Perhaps GDNF secreted or applied in one region will have a spillover- or cascade-effect, and cause growth in a far away region ...

Intracerebral infusion of glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor promotes striatal neurogenesis after stroke in adult rats

http://stroke.ahajou...37/9/2361.short

 

Exercise boosts striatal GDNF

http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/9875/

http://www.sciencedi...014488603004369

 

[EDIT: It's abundantly clear I don't read OPs as closely as I ought to]

Maybe increasing dietary vitamin A will help ...

Nolz1 promotes striatal neurogenesis

http://www.neuraldev.../content/5/1/21

 

Nolz1 is induced by retinoid signals

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19056829

 

Dietary vitamin A modulates the properties of retinoic acid

The influence of dietary vitamin A on triiodothyronine, retinoic acid

Edited by gamesguru, 11 August 2015 - 03:12 AM.

[Speculosity]

Lol thank you Gamesguru.

[gamesguru]

Btw, ampakines modulate gluatminergic activity, which shares a reciprocal influence with the expression of growth-related factors ...

 

Glutamate promotes proliferation of striatal neuronal progenitors by an NMDA receptor-mediated mechanism

The role of GABA and glutamate on adult neurogenesis

NMDA and AMPA/kainate glutamate receptors modulate dentate neurogenesis and CA3 synapsin-I

 

Pay attention to nurturing new nerve cells, or else they may die or not properly branch their dendrites and axon.

Get enough dietary magnesium to adequately quiet the glutaminergic system ...

 

Effect of excess extracellular glutamate on dendrite growth: Involvement of NMDA receptors
*too much glutamate is toxic, better to slightly increase receptor density than glutamate concentration*

Glutamate Receptor 1-Induced Upregulation of NMDA Receptor Current

 

Magnesium chloride: NMDA receptor antagonist

NMDA/glutamate mechanism of magnesium-induced anxiolytic-like effect
Long-term Potentiation in the Striatum and the Voltage-dependent Magnesium Block of NMDA Receptor Channels

 

Magnesium attenuates regional cerebral edema following brain injury: roles of glutamate release inhibitor and sodium channel blocker

*in the long-term, less glutamate release = more glutamate receptors ---> higher baseline glutaminergic activity*

 

Epicatechin up-regulates GluR2 in cortical neurons

AMPA/NMDA properties of L-theanine and catechins

Ginkgo upregulates (AMPA)-2 receptor and calcium and chloride channel density in cortex and hippocampus

Neuroprotective Role of Bacopa: Glutamate Receptor Gene Expression     [1]

Glutamate receptor binding and NMDA R1 gene expression: Neuroprotective role of Bacopa

 

Curcumin inhibits the increase of glutamate

Curcumin inhibits glutamate release in nerve terminals from rat prefrontal cortex

 

Treadmill running induces striatal Fos expression via NMDA glutamate and dopamine receptors

Effect of Treadmill Training Pre-Exercise on Glutamate Receptor Expression in Rats

Effects of treadmill training on motor performance and extracellular glutamate level in striatum in rats

Treadmill exercise enhances NMDA receptor expression

Effects of exercise on NMDA receptor subunit contributions to bidirectional synaptic plasticity in the mouse dentate gyrus

Uncoupling Dendrite Growth and Patterning: Single-Cell Knockout Analysis of NMDA Receptor 2B

[Speculosity]

 

Pay attention to nurturing new nerve cells, or else they may die or not properly branch their dendrites and axon.

 

 

How do I nurture them?

[gamesguru]

Many things for which I have neither the patience nor memory to recite ...

 

Exercise enhances the survival of neuronal progenitor cells

[treadmill running] enhances survival of newborn neurons in middle-aged mice.

It has been shown that most adult newborn neurons die quickly after birth; hence, the survival of newborn neurons critically determines the final outcome of neurogenesis

 

A few others off the top of my head ...

• Enhanced blood flow-related factors, and all aspects of nutrition
• Upregulation/increased expression of growth-related factors
• Downregulation/decreased expression of inflammatory- or apoptotic-related factors
• Adequate, but not excessive/toxic excitation of the synapse (hebbian theory, strengthening synapse) ... this is where the balancing glutamate with magnesium/gabaergics comes in
• General balance of neurotransmitter systems across all brain regions
• Probably mental exercise: reading/studying, polite debate, chess, maybe even crossword puzzles to an extent, etc.

 

Role of Dietary Polyphenols on Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis

curcumin effects in restoring BDNF protein levels is important in the context of BDNF signalling in adult neurogenesis, shown to increase neuronal differentiation, survival, and dendritic arborisation

 

The neuroprotective effects of cocoa flavanol and its influence on cognitive performance

flavonoids interact with signalization cascades involving protein and lipid kinases that lead to the inhibition of neuronal death by apoptosis induced by neurotoxicants such as oxygen radicals, and promote neuronal survival and synaptic plasticity

 

Surprisingly and disappointingly, green tea has no effect ...

Plant-derived flavanol (−)epicatechin mitigates anxiety in association with elevated hippocampal monoamine and BDNF levels, but does not influence pattern separation in mice

No difference in the number of surviving newborn DG cells was observed

 

etc ...

Enhancement of Amygdaloid Neuronal Dendritic Arborization by Fresh Leaf Juice of Centella asiatica
http://www.hindawi.c...009/247831/abs/

Centella asiatica Leaf Extract Treatment During the Growth Spurt Period Enhances Hippocampal CA3 Neuronal Dendritic Arborization
http://www.hindawi.c...006/627102/abs/

Altered dendritic arborization of amygdala neurons in young adult rats orally intubated with Clitorea ternatea aqueous root extract
http://onlinelibrary...r.1657/abstract

 

Enhancement of basolateral amygdaloid neuronal dendritic arborization following Bacopa monniera extract treatment in adult rats
http://www.scielo.br...ipt=sci_arttext

Enhanced dendritic arborization of amygdala neurons during growth spurt periods in rats orally intubated with Bacopa monniera extract
http://link.springer...2565-011-0104-z

Edited by gamesguru, 13 August 2015 - 06:30 PM.

[Speculosity]

Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate the info! It seems that BDNF does promote the survival or neurons as well as promote neurogenesis.

[gamesguru]

Probably.  Looking at epicatechin, which does not enhance newborn hippocampal cell survival ([1], [2]), but does increase hippocampal BDNF levels, one has to remember it may suppress VEGF, which is bad for cell survival ([1], [2]), and which must practically cancel out the benefits of increased BDNF.

 

Though I found one conflicting study, suggesting pro-vascular effects of epicatechin.  Then I really have no explanation, science falls apart, truth eludes me.  Flawed study methodology?  Not my fault! [Also note that the first two studies ([1], [2]) conflict, with [1] finding no enhancement of spatial memory and [2] finding significant enhancement]

As well, epicatechin gallate may be pro-vascular.

 

Caffeine is bad for the hippocampus (probably via excess excitation or stimulation of the young synapse), not sure if this applies to the striatum or NAc, likely it does.  I personally go for sencha, not decaffeinated GTE; I don't go to extremes to save a few cells (but that's just my opinion) ...

Inhibitory effects of caffeine on hippocampal neurogenesis and function

 

I already mentioned nutrition/wholesome diet ...

Neural precursor proliferation and newborn cell survival in the adult rat dentate gyrus are affected by vitamin E deficiency

Levels of ω-3 fatty acids in plants [flax remains the cheapest]

Levels of alpha- and gamma-tocorpherol in foods ([1],  [2],  [3])

Nutrition, adult hippocampal neurogenesis and mental health [see Table 1 on page 10:  survival was only enhanced by ω-3 fatty acids, vitamin E, and caloric restriction ]

 

Just an aside ...

Melatonin promotes neurogenesis in dentate gyrus in the pinealectomized rat

Melatonin potentiates running wheel-induced neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus of adult C3H/HeN mice hippocampus

Protective effect of melatonin against mitochondrial dysfunction
Melatonin content in plants

Edited by gamesguru, 14 August 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[Sleepdealer]

Probably.  Looking at epicatechin, which does not enhance newborn hippocampal cell survival ([1], [2]), but does increase hippocampal BDNF levels, one has to remember it may suppress VEGF, which is bad for cell survival ([1], [2]), and which must practically cancel out the benefits of increased BDNF.

 

Though I found one conflicting study, suggesting pro-vascular effects of epicatechin.  Then I really have no explanation, science falls apart, truth eludes me.  Flawed study methodology?  Not my fault! [Also note that the first two studies ([1], [2]) conflict, with [1] finding no enhancement of spatial memory and [2] finding significant enhancement]

As well, epicatechin gallate may be pro-vascular.

 

Caffeine is bad for the hippocampus (probably via excess excitation or stimulation of the young synapse), not sure if this applies to the striatum or NAc, likely it does.  I personally go for sencha, not decaffeinated GTE; I don't go to extremes to save a few cells (but that's just my opinion) ...

Inhibitory effects of caffeine on hippocampal neurogenesis and function

 

I already mentioned nutrition/wholesome diet ...

Neural precursor proliferation and newborn cell survival in the adult rat dentate gyrus are affected by vitamin E deficiency

Levels of ω-3 fatty acids in plants [flax remains the cheapest]

Levels of alpha- and gamma-tocorpherol in foods ([1],  [2],  [3])

Nutrition, adult hippocampal neurogenesis and mental health [see Table 1 on page 10:  survival was only enhanced by ω-3 fatty acids, vitamin E, and caloric restriction ]

 

Just an aside ...

Melatonin promotes neurogenesis in dentate gyrus in the pinealectomized rat

Melatonin potentiates running wheel-induced neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus of adult C3H/HeN mice hippocampus

Protective effect of melatonin against mitochondrial dysfunction
Melatonin content in plants

 

This Catechin Epicatechin Gallate being pro-vascular, could it be possible for it to stimulate grows of new, or increase, the cerebral blood vessels too? I suppose it is reasonable but I cannot be sure.

[gamesguru]

Most of the studies I'm finding are suggesting green tea inhibits vascular differentiation, proliferation, and minor processes involved in angiogenesis [1].

This may sound unhealthy, but cells dividing less is actually good for longevity because they approach the Hayflick limit later in life ... also cancer cells tend to be very metabolically inefficient and demand extensive microcapillarization, and so a reduction in blood flow and cell division (one which hardly affects healthy tissue) could very well induce hypoxia and apoptosis in cancerous tissue.  So basically tea suffocates cancer by reducing vascular expression, while leaving healthy tissue unaffected.

 

As for a positive correlation between catechins and vascular expression, I could only find the two in the above post.
 

Epigallocathechin-3 Gallate Selectively Inhibits the PDGF-BB–induced Intracellular Signaling Transduction Pathway in Vascular Smooth Muscle Cells and Inhibits Transformation of sis-transfected NIH 3T3 Fibroblasts and Human Glioblastoma Cells

Inhibition of the PDGFβ-receptor tyrosine phosphorylation and its downstream intracellular signal transduction pathway in rat and human vascular smooth muscle cells by different catechins.

Inhibition of fibroblast growth factors by green tea.

Green Tea Catechins Inhibit Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor Receptor Phosphorylation

Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) receptors (VEGFR) play a major role in tumor angiogenesis and, thus, represent attractive targets for the development of novel anticancer therapeutics.

 

Curcumin Inhibits Platelet-Derived Growth Factor–Stimulated Vascular Smooth Muscle Cell Function and Injury-Induced Neointima Formation

Identification and characterization of [6]-shogaol from ginger as inhibitor of vascular smooth muscle cell proliferation

 

 

For non-cancerous organs and healthy blood:
More blood = more life

Less blood = less life

 

That's why optimizing vascular health should contribute to pro-cognitive, you ensure adequate delivery to nerves of whatever nutrition you obtain from foods.

But upregulating angiogenesis is a double edged sword, it can also contribute to brain cancer, especially if you have bad blood.

 

Obviously if you have unhealthy blood you should adjust your lifestyle (purify diet, increase activity, etc etc), and if you have cancer, perhaps considering lifestyle choices which do NOT EXPRESS PRIMARY VASCULAR FACTORS unless the cancer goes away.

Edited by gamesguru, 20 August 2015 - 01:44 AM.

[kurdishfella]

Careful increasing BDNF usually those are increased or produce together with in level to all the non essential and essential nutrients in the body not more or less. So forcing BDNF production by a drug and having not enough say vitamins to act as an base or support it can be bad.

[kurdishfella]

BDNF, NGF etc are made of proteins so thats one way of increasing as is basically everything. Take it with like an BDNF releaser. if you dont have enough protein in brain taking semax wont do anything.

Edited by kurdishfella, 29 May 2022 - 08:23 AM.