39 replies to this topic

[Seganfredo]

I started this thread to join ideas on when/how to use Piracetam, when to avoid it, and to spread awereness about the need to be careful with it. So, if it's not your cup o'tea and you're in love with the substance, I totally understand - but please understand it's good practice to spread awareness so people can take educated decisions, and respect it. Also, on a more positive note and even more important, this thread is about gathering info on how to (quickly) recover oneself from any undesirable effects it may cause (revert and heal any possible hypothalamic oxidative stress and dysregulation). This is certainly precious information to many that can't be easily found, currently.

 

While it needs to be asserted that many people do enjoy benefits from Piracetam, many others don't get any response from it. Now, it turns out it can also have very serious and predictable side effects that aren't that uncommon at all.

Piracetam *IS* potentially harmful - tenfold what people wrongly assume it to be basing themselves on studies of very dubious quality and low scientific rigor.

 

Commonly reported undesirable effects include:

1. Brain fog - from severe to light ¹, ², ³;
2. Depression ¹, ²;
3. Tiredness - from severe to light ¹, ², ³
4. Anhedonia  ¹, ³
5. Apathy / lack of motivation ¹, ²
6. Drowsiness - from severe to mild ¹, ², ³
7. Insomnia ¹, ²
8. Irritatability/tension - from severe to mild ¹, ², ³
9. Headaches - severe ¹ mild/light ¹, ², ³
10. Lowered IQ/cognitive decline (long/short-term memory, slow/faulty thought formulation, absent mindedness, etc) - all, from severe to light ¹, ², ³

 

Less commonly reported undesirable effects include:

1. Muscle twitches/convulsions (eyes, hands, feet) - severe ¹, - mild/light ¹, ², ³
2. Distortion on the perception of time (minutes seem hours, days seem hours, a week seems a couple of days) ¹, ²
3. Lowered verbal fluency/eloquence (spelling mistakes, difficulty retrieving simple words) ¹, ², ³
4. Foggy/Blurred vision/ strange ocular sensations of tightness; ¹, ²
5. Poor circulation to body extremities ¹
6. Sweating palms ¹
7. Digestive problems/constipation ²
8. Erectile dysfunction ¹, ² rare ³
9. Muscle weakness ²

Other reported undesirable effects include:

1. High HCT (Hemocrit) and Hemoglobin levels ¹
2. Foul smelling urine ¹
3. Elder appearance (bags under eyes, bad hair, pale face) ²
4. Extremely low body temperature (shivering uncrontrollably, blue nails) ¹
5. Feeling of terror ¹
6. Bloated stomach ¹, ²
7. Loss of muscle ²
8. Inability to practice sports ²
9. Lowered defense

 

¹ Reported as a short-lived symptom - effect disappeared once Piracetam was discontinued, one got used to it, changed doses, etc.

² Reported as a somewhat persistent symptom - remaining after a while even whitout the drug.

³ Reported as a seemingly chronic and/or a more serious symptom.
 

 

 

 

If you're interested to see some of the self-reports, check this extensive blog entry http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
I personally got many of those side effects, but won't go into my own personal situation as I've posted about it in another thread already ( www.longecity.org/forum/topic/79337-piracetam-effects/ ). Onwards.

 

 

 

The Probable Cause

 

Joseph Cohen - member of this forum and owner of the aforementioned blog - has a theory that Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus (by changing serotonin and dopamine levels, it seems).

That would, in turn, lead to hypothalamic damage and dysregulation which is the probable cause of many (most?) symptoms listed above.

 

He says [added bold],

 

"Due to the abundant reports of brain fog, I would also add 500mg of NAC, just in case piracetam is causing oxidative stress in the brain"

(...)

[original bold]

The two symptoms of brain fog and drowsiness were consistent with my theory that piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus.

 

After some research, I found a few studies that confirmed my suspicions:

MDA[a marker for oxidative stress]…. increased in cortex and hippocampus and in cortex, hypothalamus and striatum by the higher dose of vinpocetine or piracetam, respectively along with decreased TAC (total antioxidant capacity)….at their high concentration, these drugs exhibit pro-oxidant properties and increase free radical production or act as a free radical….[Ref.]

 

 

He also adds that some "people are sleep deprived, stressed and engage in many other behaviors that increase oxidative stress of the hypothalamus", which leads to a worsened effect. Also, many "have a hypothalamus that isn’t working optimally".

 

According to the post, people with very healthy hypnothalami are less likely to notice these effects - which does not necessarily mean all is well. Still, while this type of hypothalamic damage doesn't necessarily disappear in a day, it usually does end up healing. Long term issues are well explained by the equally long term dysregulation caused in susceptible people who do many other things that compound the damage. Also, the sleep, irritability and sweat issues reported are probably caused by excessive cortisol release exacerbated by stress and/or overusage of stimulants.

 

 

 

Now, if anyone has any useful information or comment about this, especially about reverting possible damages to the brain caused by Piracetam and fine tuning the hypothalamus back into great shape, please do speak up.

Edited by Seganfredo, 21 July 2015 - 10:42 AM.

[Coffeee]

I still have no idea how to get my sexual function working again after 6 years, high amounts of racetams are the key to effective chemical castration. I bought NAC it does absolutely nothing to help, No Fap is also completely useless to cure ED from racetams. I've tried every mineral and vitamin under the sun. NOTHING WORKS only viagra which gives me nice heart attack like symptoms later on. FML

[Puppalupacus]

Come on.  Using selfhacked.com as a reference instantly invalidates any argument.  That entire thread is nothing but a bunch of self-diagnoses gone wrong.  It is unfortunate that with Google, you can now cross-reference anything with anything and confirm your own bias.

[Coffeee]

Self hacked is right

Come on. Using selfhacked.com as a reference instantly invalidates any argument. That entire thread is nothing but a bunch of self-diagnoses gone wrong. It is unfortunate that with Google, you can now cross-reference anything with anything and confirm your own bias.

[BioHacker=Life]

 

The Probable Cause

 

Joseph Cohen - member of this forum and owner of the aforementioned blog - has a theory that Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus (by changing serotonin and dopamine levels, it seems).

That would, in turn, lead to hypothalamic damage and dysregulation which is the probable cause of many (most?) symptoms listed above.

 

 

...Probably cause? This is broscience bs at it's worse.

 

Piracetam does not in anyway increase oxidative stress at clinically used doses. It is in fact an antioxidant and highly neuroprotective hence why it's shown usefulness in stroke, head injuries, and other neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Your post is similar to a canary with a head injury trying to make sense of a perception piece from Self Hacked written solely to try to discredit Piracetam with cherry picked reports ignoring the massive amounts of clinical data on Piracetam that goes back over 50 years. There's a reason Piracetam was approved in 100 countries and it's not because of it's so called extremely rare side effects presented as somehow relevant to most users.

Edited by BioHacker=Life, 26 January 2019 - 11:00 PM.

[gamesguru]

Piracetam does not in anyway increase oxidative stress at clinically used doses. It is in fact an antioxidant and highly neuroprotective hence why it's shown usefulness in stroke, head injuries, and other neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Levadopa shows promise in short-term treatment of parkinsons, yet in the long-term it clearly causes harm.  Vitamin C can both reduce peroxides (anti-oxidant) and reduce metal ions (pro-oxidant).  Ginkgo can promote nerve growth in one brain region while simultaneously promoting excitotoxic stress in a neighboring region.  Different medicines can affect different people differently at different doses.  Proponents of truth often divide themselves into clear opposing camps, when the actual real truth typically falls between in a fog.

 

Many who have experimented extendedly with piracetam have attested to its deleterious side.  Anyone who claims not to experience these is either immune or not paying close attention, regardless they should not presumptuously seek to discredit those who have.

 

I'm not sure simple oxidative stress can explain the all annotated side effects, but it is definitely a player here. The remainder may be explained by a complex interplay between calcium influx, modulation of ADP, PKC and cAMP, as well as dynamics at the ACh, GABA and AMPA receptor sites.  That's what happens when you play with something you think you know everything about: you get unexpected results.

[BioHacker=Life]

Levadopa shows promise in short-term treatment of parkinsons, yet in the long-term it clearly causes harm.  Vitamin C can both reduce peroxides (anti-oxidant) and reduce metal ions (pro-oxidant).  Ginkgo can promote nerve growth in one brain region while simultaneously promoting excitotoxic stress in a neighboring region.  Different medicines can affect different people differently at different doses.  Proponents of truth often divide themselves into clear opposing camps, when the actual real truth typically falls between in a fog.

 

Many who have experimented extendedly with piracetam have attested to its deleterious side.  Anyone who claims not to experience these is either immune or not paying close attention, regardless they should not presumptuously seek to discredit those who have.

 

I'm not sure simple oxidative stress can explain the all annotated side effects, but it is definitely a player here. The remainder may be explained by a complex interplay between calcium influx, modulation of ADP, PKC and cAMP, as well as dynamics at the ACh, GABA and AMPA receptor sites.  That's what happens when you play with something you think you know everything about: you get unexpected results.

 

That's debatable many studies show neuroprotective effects of l-dopa.

 

I've seen zero clinical studies where these so called reported deleterious side effects is in any way meaningful for most users. A few case reports has no bearing on the overall research on it. 

 

The blog cites 1 brain injection study for Piracetam when used at od doses for humans utter meaningless to people.

 

Being a pam for glutamate receptors does not equate in cognitive dysfunction. Rather neuroprotective and cognitive enhancing.

[gamesguru]

That's debatable many studies show neuroprotective effects of l-dopa.

 

I've seen zero clinical studies where these so called reported deleterious side effects is in any way meaningful for most users. 

 

this is quite serious for long-term treatment patients.  they only get worse in certain departments, look at anyone being treated for parkinsons

L-dopa-induced dopamine synthesis and oxidative stress in serotonergic cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23196068

 

Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

(see table 1)

• Psychomotor agitation
• Dysphoria
• Dizziness
• Memory loss
• Diarrhea

pro glutamate isn't always a great thing.  i'd rather regulate serotonin and dopamine by something like bacopa and let downstream effects wind their way into the glutamate system than hammer it directly.  don't swat a fly with a hammer approach

[BioHacker=Life]

this is quite serious for long-term treatment patients.  they only get worse in certain departments, look at anyone being treated for parkinsons

L-dopa-induced dopamine synthesis and oxidative stress in serotonergic cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23196068

 

Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

(see table 1)

• Psychomotor agitation
• Dysphoria
• Dizziness
• Memory loss
• Diarrhea

pro glutamate isn't always a great thing.  i'd rather regulate serotonin and dopamine by something like bacopa and let downstream effects wind their way into the glutamate system than hammer it directly.  don't swat a fly with a hammer approach

 

Here's a fun read on L-DOPA with an excellent section examing studies showing positive effects in humans and animals. Dosage of l-dopa, other meds, severity all play a factor in those with PD less so in those with normal brain functioning. Taking r-lipoic acid and vitamins c with say 50-100 mg I consider relatively safe.

 

All key neurotransmitter can be positively modulated each with differing cognitive or emotional improvement or alteration. L-Theanine alters glutamate and is a safe and useful nootropic.

 

You can safely effect most neurotransmitters but some do require some caution such as GABA, Opioid receptors, and Dopamine due to addiction risk, Serotonin due to Syndrome, etc but you can still modify them.

Edited by BioHacker=Life, 29 January 2019 - 02:04 AM.

[Seganfredo]

Four years later… Pretty mixed responses. Good. A debate was really needed and better late than never.

 

Different medicines can affect different people differently at different doses.  Proponents of truth often divide themselves into clear opposing camps, when the actual real truth typically falls between in a fog.

 

Many who have experimented extendedly with piracetam have attested to its deleterious side.  Anyone who claims not to experience these is either immune or not paying close attention, regardless they should not presumptuously seek to discredit those who have.

 

I'm not sure simple oxidative stress can explain the all annotated side effects, but it is definitely a player here. The remainder may be explained by a complex interplay between calcium influx, modulation of ADP, PKC and cAMP, as well as dynamics at the ACh, GABA and AMPA receptor sites.  That's what happens when you play with something you think you know everything about: you get unexpected results.

 

Exactly. Very well said. Hard to believe it has to be openly stated.

 

 

Come on.  Using selfhacked.com as a reference instantly invalidates any argument.  That entire thread is nothing but a bunch of self-diagnoses gone wrong.  It is unfortunate that with Google, you can now cross-reference anything with anything and confirm your own bias.

 

 

Nothing instantly invalidates any arguments, except being close-minded and partial for being emotionally attached to a product or POV. (That's clearly not correlated with rational individuality, but with the thinking of the masses) Let's keep it more fact-based.

 

 

...Probably cause? This is broscience bs at it's worse.

 

Piracetam does not in anyway increase oxidative stress at clinically used doses. It is in fact an antioxidant and highly neuroprotective hence why it's shown usefulness in stroke, head injuries, and other neurodegenerative disorders.

 

Your post is similar to a canary with a head injury trying to make sense of a perception piece from Self Hacked written solely to try to discredit Piracetam with cherry picked reports ignoring the massive amounts of clinical data on Piracetam that goes back over 50 years. There's a reason Piracetam was approved in 100 countries and it's not because of it's so called extremely rare side effects presented as somehow relevant to most users.

 

Not calling you an idiot, like you’re quick to try do to others – but anyone who discredits so quickly a growing body of personal experiences popping everywhere without much thought has got a long way to go. And "aren't that uncommon" isn't "pervasive" or "ubiquitous", you must learn. Delegating all your thinking to secondary knowledge is the lowest type of cognitive laziness or ineptitude (not to mention brutal naïveté). No one's trying to kill your baby - plainly substantiate your point of view dispassionately. 

 

 

-----

 

As stated on the OP, the two relevant points here are 1) the good practice of spreading awareness about the need to be careful with Piracetam so people can take educated decisions and 2) publishing info on how to (quickly) recover oneself from any undesirable effects it may cause.

 

 

...Onwards to that.

[Seganfredo]

Now, to help Coffee and other fellows healing:

 

Floor stress levels, make yourself feel physically/psychologically safe (solve any internal threat-signals, do some BJJ - lol), drastically down-regulate excessive cortisol, REINFORCE YOUR CIRCADIAN PATTERNS, (avoid stimulats INCLUDING COFFEE!!!! – funny that’s your nick, I bet you’ve been a coffee maniac for years/decades too) 

 

 

..and supplement abundantly with Melissa officinalis.

 

 

I’m aware of the simplicity of this contribution, but I gotta go to a party and I’m pressed for time.

 

(I’ll substantiate and expand on it shortly.)

[Αυθόρμητα Επιφάνεια]

Personally I had a very bad experience a nightmare with Pir when I was in college

All that hype and when I took it I was confused, felt like shit, depressed, mentally blunt, couldn't concentrate. What a huge disappointment, took it out of my stack.

I'll keep checking this topic, I'd still like to make it work for me.

[BioHacker=Life]

Personally I had a very bad experience a nightmare with Pir when I was in college

All that hype and when I took it I was confused, felt like shit, depressed, mentally blunt, couldn't concentrate. What a huge disappointment, took it out of my stack.

I'll keep checking this topic, I'd still like to make it work for me.

 

How did you dose it? Some people take an attack dose or some other nonsense. It's best to start low and slowly increase to 9.6 grams a day. Many people will see side effects if their taking more than their system can handle but in most cases the sides disappear with prolonged use.

[Αυθόρμητα Επιφάνεια]

Guy on another topic said it's elevated ACh activity, or rather that u'd better not take choline with racetams. But how or why is pir the trigger??? I mean the mechanism?

 

Check this out Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

 

Adverse effects. Piracetam users have reported symptoms of psychomotor agitation, dysphoria, tiredness, dizziness, memory loss, headache, and diarrhea. Many users reported to have neither felt any cognitive improvement nor psychedelic effects after taking piracetam.17-19

 

 

What's the mechanism of those symptoms!? The same that I had. and how to protect against them???

[BioHacker=Life]

 

Guy on another topic said it's elevated ACh activity, or rather that u'd better not take choline with racetams. But how or why is pir the trigger??? I mean the mechanism?

 

Check this out Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

 

Adverse effects. Piracetam users have reported symptoms of psychomotor agitation, dysphoria, tiredness, dizziness, memory loss, headache, and diarrhea. Many users reported to have neither felt any cognitive improvement nor psychedelic effects after taking piracetam.17-19

 

 

What's the mechanism of those symptoms!? The same that I had. and how to protect against them???

 

 

It's your brain that's the issue. Piracetam is the same chemical no matter who takes it. The only difference is your brain and body is different from others. You could have a mental illness that is worsened by glutamate agonists.

 

But keep in mind these are case reports and very very few. The majority of people respond very well to Piracetam.

 

You had every side effect in these case reports? Are you sure you didn't read that then take Piracetam? You can make yourself feel any side effects if you convince yourself it's going to happen.

 

I would try a lower dose and increase slowly over a month.

 

When did you take it, how much did you take, when did you notice the side effects, and what dose did you use?

[BioHacker=Life]

Joseph Cohen - member of this forum and owner of the aforementioned blog - has a theory that Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus (by changing serotonin and dopamine levels, it seems).

That would, in turn, lead to hypothalamic damage and dysregulation which is the probable cause of many (most?) symptoms listed above.

 

 

The biggest joke of the blog. Context is king here.

 

The actual study was done on rats injected with ethidium bromide to cause ms like effects. When the rats received low doses of vinpocetine and piracetam it reversed these effects.

 

"MDA decreased in striatum and cortex by the lower doses of vinpocetine or piracetam"

 

High doses did seem to increase in this study when combined with ethidium but that does not mean you can state 

" Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus" as a general statement. In every other study that looked at Piracetam's effects on oxidative stress it showed a reduction due to multiple causes. See here for all the studies and highlights. 

 

https://www.longecit...-stress-levels/

 

Not all antioxidants protect against every type of oxidate some as expected may have pro-oxidant effects when overdosing or in reaction to certain chemicals. 

 

Oh and I have to know how you decided Piracetam  changes serotonin and dopamine levels from this study since it's not mentioned anywhere in the study.

[Seganfredo]

So, guys. Our objective of discrediting Piracetam for fun and profit has been found out. :'((((

(Truly won’t feed lil c*nt trolls who got little to share but bitching anymore.)

 

Back to helping Coffee and anyone else who's lying about having serious troubles with Pir (because it's such a pure sacred-cow no one can have a problem with it, 'course. But let's pretend.)

 

 

I’ll “mindread” Coffee and maybe other people who have had trouble with Pir: you’re usually stressed, addicted to stimulants (this' basically a given with that nick of yours!), may have a kind of a "warrior" type of worldview, get easily angered, constantly anxious about stuff, have a ton of worries and/or responsibilities, might have even suffered panic attacks (which seems not to be uncommon for overly high-strung ones). Meaning: you pump cortisol like crazy, might have poor emotional health, and have dealt with primary-importance long-term worries in your life which you might consider too-much-of-a-big-deal (which causes you stress and maybe a threat response).

 

I've no idea if this kind of fits you and your worldview. Let me know if it does or not and it'll help me refine my understandings.

 

 

Now, Full Disclosure: My brain MUST be atypical as I DO have a long-term history of heavy "psychological mayhem" (am kinda "crazy" - never said otherwise. But nowadays it's probably even more atypical to have a "typical" brain, isn't it.) Had depersonalization in my teens (which I now assume it’s due to acute stress over violence and constant threat of bodily harm during childhood which - I theorize - might have gotten EBV out of control and caused even worse stress on the system), am as emotional as a crocodile, have unusual hunger patterns (intermittent "faster" for years, which is natural and spontaneous in me - eat like an animal but only once or twice a day), sweat profusely very easily while being of athletic build, am way more thermally-regulated then anyone I know (usually am very warm at any given moment, except under sleep deprivation, when I get shivering cold), did Wim Hof for years (mostly cold immersion every day, but also the breathing - quit that as it gave me pneumonia 3x in 6 stressful months living abroad and studying), am extremely energetic (except when I had a hard crash two months ago for the first time in my life due to both physical and psychological acute stress), satyriasis, slept 3-5 hours a night for two decades plus (after 3 or 6am), long-term severe caffeine abuse, and severe “chronic” depression for years (got over it more than one and a half decade ago by following my researches and studying unorthodox paths to mental health recovery). As I do weight training/bjj (and enjoy merrily fornicating into coital bliss), I take extreme care of good androgen levels and have always been crazy about stimulants, so I had never taken or really researched much about soporifics/tranquilizers before.

 

As many would have noted, these peculiarities may be indicative of an unusual HPA axis (dys)regulation.

 

The HPA axis is involved in threat response (cortisol regulation/stress/fight-flight), and hormones/androgens, catecholamines (I have a weird, non-emotional startle response), mineral balance, circadian rhythm, body temperature, hunger and thirst, parenting/attachment behavior (father brutality issues, as stated), digestion, regulates growth, blood pressure (I have it low), immunity/inflammation, mood/emotions, sexuality/sex organ function and physical energetic patterns/fatigue, thyroid/metabolism, pain relief (I basically don’t feel pain in some moments that I clearly should – including emotional pain), among many others.

 

 

I work in the Health industry and am a last semester premed. While some fellows take 2-6 methylphenidate pills when cramming for exams, only ½ a pill has a huge impact in me. Even a ¼ pill has a clear, noticeable effect. Half a pill quickly has a “bang” with strong anxiolytic effect (nothing ever brought such a calm, focused feeling), heightens my information retrieval and renews cognitive clarity but gives me a depersonalized sight/feeling and makes me crash asleep very strangely (or have irritating “zombie insomnia”) after the effect is gone.

Piracetam has only (very) negative effects and I’ll never come anywhere close that bloody evil thing again. (Oh. I'm lying, obviously.)

 

 

So, here's what I found out so far about recovery:

 

1. If you're forcing your HPA axis long-term, it needs to rest & recover, obviously.
2. Stimulants, being high strung, lack of correct sleep, hidration, improper levels of vitamins/minerals and/or body acidity all force your adrenals/hypothalamus/pituitary to keep pumping their juices
3. You recover/balance by quiting those above and doing the opposite of that: relaxing, putting your circadian rythm back into place, learning how to live laid back and being more easy going in life (stuff just ain't so big of a deal).

Now, Melissa officinalis (lemon balm), has been used for over 2 millennia as a medicine precisely for this (it was well-know even before 300BC). Paracelsus called it the “elixir of life”, and other protoscientists had it as a miracle plant. Thomas Jefferson cultivated it in his garden. Among many other uses, it’s prescribed for internal use as treatment for the nervous system. It induces restorative sleep/reduces insomnia, improves restlessness. anti-stress and anxiolytic (and helps kicking EBV's ass - which can get out control in "unrelaxed" people). 

 

As a good point for you, it's also sexually restorative (at least in females - but I believe it can help everyone who need to restore the nervous system.)

 

Studies about it:

 

From Effect of Melissa officinalis (Lemon balm) on Sexual Dysfunction in Women: A Double- blind, Randomized, Placebo-controlled Study:

“Medicinal plants for traditional medicine are focused on by researchers in different domains of medical science. Many clinical trials have been conducted in this regard to evaluate the effects of these drugs on different domains of FSD; these include study on Ginseng (12), Saffron (13), Elaeagnus angustifolia (14) and Tribulus terrestris (15).

According to Persian Medicine experts (such as Ibn Sina), strong and healthy body is essential for healthy sexual function which is essential for maintaining good health (16).

The valuable book, Canon of Medicine, was written by Ibn Sina (One of the most prominent Iranian scientists between 9 and 14 AD) (17). Chapter 12 of the third volume of this book is related to sexual health, measures and treatment of its disorders. In this chapter, libido is described as "Bah" (15) which explains the cause of decreased sexual desire, signs and treatment of any of the causes in detail (18).

In Persian Medicine sources, weakness of the main organs (heart, brain and live) is one of the leading causes of decreased sexual desire (Bah). Accordingly, strengthening the main organs is the main priority of weak sexual desire treatment (18, 19). Melissa officinalis is one of the tonic drugs for the main organs in ITM (20). This medicinal herb was mentioned in PM with the name "Badranjboye". The history of use of this medicinal plant is ancient Persia and its cultivation ability in different regions of Iran indicates that it is indigenous, available and it has been used for thousands of years in Iran (21).

 

Recent animal and human studies have shown the different therapeutic applications of M. officinalis which are: as anti-anxiety (24), antidepressants (25, 26), for improvement of cognitive function and mood (27), for calming and positive effect on the immune system and stress (28), for Alzheimer's disease (29), nervous sleeping disorders and functional gastrointestinal complaints (22). Even though the treatment of nervous debility has been reported to be among the pharmacological effects of M. officinalis in PDR which is used in folk medicine (23), there has not been any trial that evaluated its effect on the improvement of decreased sexual desire in women.

The objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of M. officinalis extract on the improvement of sexual dysfunction in women aged 18 to 50 years.

 

 

Anyone chilled out who will politely develop a line of thought based on rational arguments is most welcome to agree, disagree, question or whatever.

Edited by Seganfredo, 07 February 2019 - 03:02 PM.

[Seganfredo]

Personally I had a very bad experience a nightmare with Pir when I was in college

All that hype and when I took it I was confused, felt like shit, depressed, mentally blunt, couldn't concentrate. What a huge disappointment, took it out of my stack.

I'll keep checking this topic, I'd still like to make it work for me.

 

Exactly same feeling over here: felt brutally disappointed about Pir. I obviously took it hoping it'd have all those amazing effects people describe without all those awful side-effects. (truly "nightmarish")

My objective with this topic is not to hurt Pir's reputation at all. I want to help people who get damaged by it and PERHAPS find a way to use it and get all the benefits without all the horrible side effects. THIS WOULD BE AWESOME.

 

 

 

Guy on another topic said it's elevated ACh activity, or rather that u'd better not take choline with racetams. But how or why is pir the trigger??? I mean the mechanism?

 

Check this out Probable Nootropicinduced Psychiatric Adverse Effects: A Series of Four Cases https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4756795/

 

Adverse effects. Piracetam users have reported symptoms of psychomotor agitation, dysphoria, tiredness, dizziness, memory loss, headache, and diarrhea. Many users reported to have neither felt any cognitive improvement nor psychedelic effects after taking piracetam.17-19

 

 

What's the mechanism of those symptoms!? The same that I had. and how to protect against them???

 

 

Unhappily, I've been busy lately, and I still don't have a clearer understanding of what could be the mechanism except what was mentioned before - possible hypothalamus oxidative stress/HPA dysregulation.

About the study you've mentioned, yeah - that's exactly it.

A way to protect against could be Cohen's idea to "add 500mg of NAC, just in case piracetam is causing oxidative stress in the brain"

But, honestly, I won't be getting anywhere near Pir while I don't have a very good understanding on how to counter its side-effects/use it safely.

[Bubbles]

In my country on all piracetam supplements it is written in caps lock, to not stop the intake abruptly and just reduce the dosage each day a little bit until you don't take it at all. A doctor explained me that some of the problems comes from the instant stop use. Been taking piracetam on and off for more than a decade, I'm all good. I still wonder why is it that some people have certain bad side effects from this. My uncle use this since the 80s almost non stop and he's a sharp lad. So why is it he never had the problems listed by OP?

Oh, just realized OP made this post based on that selfhacked article, oh boy, there are so many wrong things with that article I won't even bother.

[neural tweaking]

I think that some of the ideas discussed in this post might be incorrect. Small amounts of oxidative damage are not going to be causing the symptoms listed, and as mentioned it doesn't seem like piracetam causes much oxidative damage in clinical use. The common symptom of short term cognitive decline is very likely related to the downregulation of AMPA receptors (fast excitatory signaling + induction of LTP). If this is the case, it's highly unlikely that the "damage" is permanent and is a temporary debilitation caused by the body's adaptation to increased AMPA activity. I think the cycling of AMPA antagonists would offset the possibility of the kind of decline and withdrawal symptoms people have observed. It would also solve tolerance issues. I believe that this approach has been used to high efficacy in medical settings before (morphine for instance). If anyone has found something else that worked, I would definitely be interested in hearing

Edited by neural tweaking, 01 June 2019 - 01:02 AM.

[BlueCloud]

Dosage is key. The problem is the insane uber-amounts being touted around various blogs and forums as being the minimum dosage, when the maximum dosage being indicated in the notice of the pharmaceutical version prescribed in Europe is a MAXIMUM of 800 mg three times a day.   That's 2,4 Grams maximum a day.

 

 

Edited by BlueCloud, 04 June 2019 - 04:23 PM.

[Seganfredo]

I BELIEVE I DISCOVERED A CENTRAL PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.

 

TL;DR: Piracetam is an antiherpetic drug and most of the absurdly negative symptoms have a logical correlation with EBV/HHV7/HHV8 [herpetic] reactivation to nerves and brain tissue and herxheimer reaction/die-off syndrome.

(to skip to the end, check the dotted line below)

 

If you still with me and had a nasty side-effect with pir or would like to understand what may be going on with this drug, do bear with me.

 

You guys know what happened when I took pir. (I'm OP.) It's NOT that uncommon for people to have similar side-effects. That's a true nightmare.

 

After a hell of a story that happened all within 6 months (long woe list: do skip paragraph) living abroad by myself, having moved house every month, financial rollercoaster on highly speculative risky investments that hold almost EVERYTHING that I have, abusing of "partying", taking too many T-augmenting supplements, overexercise to try to relax, my grandma whom I loved dying, 3 pneumonias in 4 months that seemed like tuberculosis, final exams, having to leave medschool during finals and all the roster of girls I met and learned to love cause my father was diagnosed as terminal with aggressive MM cancer, fighting 2 highly dangerous legal battles in my father's place against truly evil people who should be shot right to the face, dealing with semi-catastrophic real state problems in my father's place, researching day and night how to save his life (which is working - prognosis' "strangely" not terminal anymore), not eating for whole days, living off tons of coffee and cold showers, etc...)

 

...after all this, one morning, in my break at the hospital, eating for 2 days in one sitting after almost 2 days fasting (cause I was worried, didn't go home, wasn't hungry, needed desperately the clarity and mettle only fasting had given given me, etc), my body just burst. Loudly. Had a severe trouble with my adrenals leading to what I've termed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - couldn't do shit anymore. Couldn't think straight. Forgot words, had everything mixed up, looked at a cooktop without knowing what it was knowing that I should know. Libido got to a low level. Autoimmunities of all types. Sharp, nasty pain on nerves. Weird headache with cracks. Instead of helping the family until all hardships are fixed and gone, I've stopped and am just bumming aroud at at their house, doing everything imaginable and more to fix myself.

 

Now.. most symptoms were undeniable, but doctors were clueless as to what was happening. The only thing that they knew was that it was autoimmune (noo... rly?) and that I'd have to bathe myself in corticosteroids to lower my immunity, and there's no cure, sorry. Heck no, ain't gonna accept that.

I researched the symptoms extensively, discussed the case with friends, and found out it all points to Epstein Barr Virus (or HHV7, HHV6, - some developed herpetic virus - they're very hard to distinguish by symptomatology). Yes, a huge EBV infestation in the whole body - lungs, hands/legs and feet, eyes, internal organs and, most scary of all, brain - would create exactly all those awful symptoms.

 

The more I checked into descriptions (and studied 200-300 research papers and case studies) the more it became evident that indeed it had to be a monster herpetic load out of control, most probably EBV.

 

95%+ of the population has some living strain of EBV within their system, giving it's nickname "Every Body's Virus" - but it rarely does it obviously cause such a huge mess so early in life. (I'm in my early 30s.)

 

Now, what will doctors do to try to prove or disprove the infection of EBV? Like any other virus, they'll look for the specific immunoglobulins M and G, taking the M expression as a recent infection and G as only past infection. Which is right. Except in the case of this effin lymphocryptoviridae that hides and proliferates inside organs and, searching by serum, it commonly gives off false negatives. "Recent infection" hardly if ever will show any imune response - but you gotta keep an eye to how strong is your past infection marker as it implies the viral load size.

 

As a medstudent I can tell you keeping a straight face that it's absurd how DOCTORS, INCLUDING INFECTOLOGISTS ARE NOT TRAINED TO EVEN DETECT EBV CORRECTLY, as it's a sneaky mofo of a virus - I've tried in three different countries, but no, doctors ALL AROUND are truly, deeply both ignorant and incompetent on the matter - and if you find one doc who's got the dimmest clue on how to deal with it, you're in huge luck. That, IMO, is what turns chronically reactivated EBV into a disease that might kill and does other awful things to human life - how docs continually brush it off as something else, cause they're so unprepared to even recognize it.

 

Many of you probably know how herpes-type viruses are f*cking as*holes that go dormant and hide all around to resurface when you've got your immunity lowered, are stressed, jacking hormones up, unstable, etc (cortisol and high hormonal levels feed herpes like crazy). Going dormant is how they can evade detection for a whole lifetime.

 

I want you to understand that EBV (and other aggressive herpes-types) *WILL* have a negative impact in almost everyone who lives long enough to tell the tale. It starts screwing with many after the 60yo mark. or much earlier for people who live acutely stressed, those who have high attachment axiety (I shit you not: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4304069/ ), and anyone who's got a specially aggressive herpes strain. HHV7 / 8 and some EBV types are quite indistinguishable and normally go hand in hand to screw the host over. https://en.wikipedia...taherpesvirus_7

 

Multiple Sclerosis, encephallitis, mystery nerve pain, mystery ilnesses, autoimmunity, weird repeated infections, various cancer types, panic attacks, pneumonitis, swollen lymph nodes, ithing... The list of symptoms for herperviridae like EBV is just too damn huge to bother to try to post. Even eye floaters might be a telltale sign. Symptoms are quite specific and logical, nonetheless.

 

Anyway: when I found out that EBV was the culprit, I started taking acyclovir and driking loads of yerba mate (a known herpes killer that wakes you up with a good buzz) instead of coffee.

 

Even on a small 200mg 3x/day dose for 2 days, the response was so strong that it got me straight to ER with very intense symptoms: irregular heart palpitations (higher than 120 BPM during rest, given that I've always had bradicardia for pushing the limits on very taxing sports - esp. running and BJJ).

 

Acyclovir (or lack of understanding, more precisely) got me to ER 5 times, in total. (3 cause I couldn't fathom that it was the drug doing it, 1 just to make it sure, and 1 cause I had bought Valtrex as an alternative to Acy without knowing that it only gets active when it turns into acyclovir and lysine in the liver.

 

After that, on 4 doctors advice to drop the acyclovir and wait one month for the next consult (and just sit on my ass - which had my symptoms worsening back again) I decided to microdose it and get the dose higher slowly but surely.

 

Now I take 2 to 3 200mg tablets 4x a day and it actually only gives me some small symptoms if I miss a dose. I'm so much better tahn before now, except the head and eyes, with the pain, cognition and vision clarity worsening and feeling very unmotivated to do shit - just feeling like keeping as comfy as I can to myself and sleeping, as if it'll, poof, magically resolve itself if I wait it off.

 

 

OTHER PARTS OF PROTOCOL: I'm also taking: nightly LDN, daily 10000IU Vitamin D, lemonade galore, urea cream to skin, homemade silver hydrosol, beef/animal fat + coconut oil diet with as little sweets/carbs as I can (zero gluten and chocolate "whenever possible" as both cause awful reactions), little bits of "power",multistrain milk kefir, some 5-6 cloves of raw garlic/day, alpha lipoic acid, ~10 antiherpetic herbs/natural components that won't lower T (star anise, l-lysine, cat's claw, curcumin with black pepper, aranto/kalanchoe, cilantro...), weekly autohemotherapy, nightly LLLT (660nm) <still fighting to lower the f*cking voltage of the supply from 3 to 2.4 or lower to make it truly work.. shit.> and also have started looking seriously into culturing pluripotent cells from centrifuged urine with homemade/DIY very inexpensive medium to shoot up my nose <-- not THAT simply made. I'll study it as I go. But I know it must be possible. It must. "Agar agar and instant beef bouillon" probably won't do it, though :] , so any help's appreciated.> (The acid technique, *sigh*...) There IS more stuff I'm doing, but can't remember now.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Seeing how I got MUCH better by following my antiviral therapy (getting less well to different degrees by missing some substance or another), it got me thinking that: kefir, a known anti-herpes fighter, had created a much smaller weird response like acyclovir, acyclovir's response was awful andf I got it under control by microdosing... but the worse response of all by far was piracetam.

 

So, I asked myself "Does Piracetam have an antiherpetic effect...?" Lo and behold, it does. https://patents.goog...atent/US5232700

 

It made me think that the awful, dreaded nightmarish response from Pir was for waging war against EBV. And that made me add a box of Piracetam to my pharmacy order.

 

Actually, they've just arrived with the meds.

 

 

Long story short: I'll experiment with microdosing pir to see what happens.

If it's not good, I'll back off. But if it's good..... and I calculate it will.

Will keep you posted.

Edited by Seganfredo, 18 July 2019 - 02:59 AM.

[Seganfredo]

I had taken the order before posting. Meaning I already took a tiny dose of pir (beware: it's NOT water soluble...)

As expected, a ridiculously low microdose caused an enormous and quite scary discomfort and alarm response. After a while, I started 'rebooting', losing my consciousness for a microssecond, my heart was awful and heavy, weird af headache, full body was feeling off. Scary.

 

I got SO tired, like, I was falling asleep all by myself, then actually went to sleep (now I remember that's how I didn't finish posting last message).

 

Arms and legs started tugging by themselves each 3-5min or so, it was bad, scarier and scarier. Some nasty palpitation. Altered vision (lights overly bright plus a weird undescribable feeling in my forehead/vision).Tougher and tougher headache.

 

Then, feeling a bad urgency, I thought about taking some collioidal silver. So I did.

Seconds after it, all pain went away, and my chest felt as free/unemcumbered/opened/breathing well as it's hasn't since, what, since I was a child? I didn't even remember it could feel like that. The same quick response used to happen when I had nerve pain from EBV a while ago - I'd take colloidal silver, and just watch it disappear almost instantly. I felt good energy surge inside me. Headache disappeared completely with the exception of the top of the head, but it wasn't so bad. (I'm not making any of this up - just saying what's just gone on.)

 

In many ways I felt good - like it was the body showing it was a major step in the right direction. (Let's keep going slowly.) Little improvement of memory nuggets popping up. Felt different. More positive.

Feels like the pir attacks/wakes up exactly those parts where the acyclovir just can't reach and the silver is a perfect combination.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Now it's a good while after I took the pir and hydrosol.

 

Seems like I should take quite a bit more silver, but I just have a little for tomorrow (might take it anyways, feel I need it). My body is quite different, no doubt about it - in many ways I'm a little worse (many little symptoms that had disappeared for ages returned, headache got worse), but it's manageable I'm QUITE happy I've found something I can do to improve and resolve this, let alone I've felt all those good things in my chest and head, old memories.

 

Let's see.

 

 

(I obviously don't have to tell you that, if you got a nightmarish xp with pir in any way similar to mine, it's a good idea to check if you might have a herpes infection, and if so, do something about it, right...)

Meaning, quite possibly, pir's innocent and herpes infestation is to blame for all that.

Edited by Seganfredo, 18 July 2019 - 02:36 AM.

[Seganfredo]

Woot? No response?  

[LCJ990]

Now, to help Coffee and other fellows healing:

 

Floor stress levels, make yourself feel physically/psychologically safe (solve any internal threat-signals, do some BJJ - lol), drastically down-regulate excessive cortisol, REINFORCE YOUR CIRCADIAN PATTERNS, (avoid stimulats INCLUDING COFFEE!!!! – funny that’s your nick, I bet you’ve been a coffee maniac for years/decades too) 

 

 

..and supplement abundantly with Melissa officinalis.

 

 

I’m aware of the simplicity of this contribution, but I gotta go to a party and I’m pressed for time.

 

(I’ll substantiate and expand on it shortly.)

• Piracetam withdrawal and benzodiazepine withdrawal the same!

[sedentary]

how is piracetam wd same as benzos?

[DaveX]

I don't notice any "ill effects", in fact I think it is so weak, that any adaptation after it would only take a couple of days. But I can't find any studies about negative longterm effects, despite it being claimed regularly here witout explanation or real plausibility, in fact there seem to be only studies about positive and harmless longterm potentiation.

Edited by DaveX, 20 October 2019 - 02:35 PM.

[Coffeee]

My brother, I was in prison from 19 years old to 21 and was popping stallion erections with morning wood while I was in prison fearing for my life. I continued to have amazing erections until the day I took PRAMIRACEAM which was at 25 years old. I know stress very well and was having sex like a porn star with mountains of stress in my life no problem. I consciously remember, after popping the pramiracetam, a feeling of a Rush running throughout my brain, within my skull, as if something in my brain was transforming, something was being sucked out almost feeling. It went on for about 15 minutes as my heart was racing, I was worried and was thinking wtf is going on. It almost felt as if it were at the center rear of my brain. The same right my dick did not rise to the occasion for my girlfriend that night, which the night before I f****** for 2 hours straight. After that fateful day i never had normal sex again. From 24years old this time and would buy like 5 pounds of noopepet at a time and pill it. I was poping nootropics like CANDY. I used to take Phenylpriacetam everyday for like a year before that also. I was taking piracetam everyday also and also commanded my girlfriend take it everyday also because I believed It increased my intelligence. I took pramiracetam that one fateful day just to see how it would go and I got my result. A dead dick for 7 years now. Thank you for your answer tho. I have tried more than 100 supplements to try to revive myself back to normal but nothing has worked other than Sustanon which I took once and I was like 14 years old again for 2 days but I will not do it again because I do not want to rely on steroid injections to have a normal sex drive. I will look into your herb tho and try it.

 

 

 

So, guys. Our objective of discrediting Piracetam for fun and profit has been found out. :'((((

(Truly won’t feed lil c*nt trolls who got little to share but bitching anymore.)

 

Back to helping Coffee and anyone else who's lying about having serious troubles with Pir (because it's such a pure sacred-cow no one can have a problem with it, 'course. But let's pretend.)

 

 

I’ll “mindread” Coffee and maybe other people who have had trouble with Pir: you’re usually stressed, addicted to stimulants (this' basically a given with that nick of yours!), may have a kind of a "warrior" type of worldview, get easily angered, constantly anxious about stuff, have a ton of worries and/or responsibilities, might have even suffered panic attacks (which seems not to be uncommon for overly high-strung ones). Meaning: you pump cortisol like crazy, might have poor emotional health, and have dealt with primary-importance long-term worries in your life which you might consider too-much-of-a-big-deal (which causes you stress and maybe a threat response).

 

I've no idea if this kind of fits you and your worldview. Let me know if it does or not and it'll help me refine my understandings.

 

 

Now, Full Disclosure: My brain MUST be atypical as I DO have a long-term history of heavy "psychological mayhem" (am kinda "crazy" - never said otherwise. But nowadays it's probably even more atypical to have a "typical" brain, isn't it.) Had depersonalization in my teens (which I now assume it’s due to acute stress over violence and constant threat of bodily harm during childhood which - I theorize - might have gotten EBV out of control and caused even worse stress on the system), am as emotional as a crocodile, have unusual hunger patterns (intermittent "faster" for years, which is natural and spontaneous in me - eat like an animal but only once or twice a day), sweat profusely very easily while being of athletic build, am way more thermally-regulated then anyone I know (usually am very warm at any given moment, except under sleep deprivation, when I get shivering cold), did Wim Hof for years (mostly cold immersion every day, but also the breathing - quit that as it gave me pneumonia 3x in 6 stressful months living abroad and studying), am extremely energetic (except when I had a hard crash two months ago for the first time in my life due to both physical and psychological acute stress), satyriasis, slept 3-5 hours a night for two decades plus (after 3 or 6am), long-term severe caffeine abuse, and severe “chronic” depression for years (got over it more than one and a half decade ago by following my researches and studying unorthodox paths to mental health recovery). As I do weight training/bjj (and enjoy merrily fornicating into coital bliss), I take extreme care of good androgen levels and have always been crazy about stimulants, so I had never taken or really researched much about soporifics/tranquilizers before.

 

As many would have noted, these peculiarities may be indicative of an unusual HPA axis (dys)regulation.

 

The HPA axis is involved in threat response (cortisol regulation/stress/fight-flight), and hormones/androgens, catecholamines (I have a weird, non-emotional startle response), mineral balance, circadian rhythm, body temperature, hunger and thirst, parenting/attachment behavior (father brutality issues, as stated), digestion, regulates growth, blood pressure (I have it low), immunity/inflammation, mood/emotions, sexuality/sex organ function and physical energetic patterns/fatigue, thyroid/metabolism, pain relief (I basically don’t feel pain in some moments that I clearly should – including emotional pain), among many others.

 

 

I work in the Health industry and am a last semester premed. While some fellows take 2-6 methylphenidate pills when cramming for exams, only ½ a pill has a huge impact in me. Even a ¼ pill has a clear, noticeable effect. Half a pill quickly has a “bang” with strong anxiolytic effect (nothing ever brought such a calm, focused feeling), heightens my information retrieval and renews cognitive clarity but gives me a depersonalized sight/feeling and makes me crash asleep very strangely (or have irritating “zombie insomnia”) after the effect is gone.

Piracetam has only (very) negative effects and I’ll never come anywhere close that bloody evil thing again. (Oh. I'm lying, obviously.)

 

 

So, here's what I found out so far about recovery:

 

1. If you're forcing your HPA axis long-term, it needs to rest & recover, obviously.
2. Stimulants, being high strung, lack of correct sleep, hidration, improper levels of vitamins/minerals and/or body acidity all force your adrenals/hypothalamus/pituitary to keep pumping their juices
3. You recover/balance by quiting those above and doing the opposite of that: relaxing, putting your circadian rythm back into place, learning how to live laid back and being more easy going in life (stuff just ain't so big of a deal).

Now, Melissa officinalis (lemon balm), has been used for over 2 millennia as a medicine precisely for this (it was well-know even before 300BC). Paracelsus called it the “elixir of life”, and other protoscientists had it as a miracle plant. Thomas Jefferson cultivated it in his garden. Among many other uses, it’s prescribed for internal use as treatment for the nervous system. It induces restorative sleep/reduces insomnia, improves restlessness. anti-stress and anxiolytic (and helps kicking EBV's ass - which can get out control in "unrelaxed" people). 

 

As a good point for you, it's also sexually restorative (at least in females - but I believe it can help everyone who need to restore the nervous system.)

 

Studies about it:

 

From Effect of Melissa officinalis (Lemon balm) on Sexual Dysfunction in Women: A Double- blind, Randomized, Placebo-controlled Study:

“Medicinal plants for traditional medicine are focused on by researchers in different domains of medical science. Many clinical trials have been conducted in this regard to evaluate the effects of these drugs on different domains of FSD; these include study on Ginseng (12), Saffron (13), Elaeagnus angustifolia (14) and Tribulus terrestris (15).

According to Persian Medicine experts (such as Ibn Sina), strong and healthy body is essential for healthy sexual function which is essential for maintaining good health (16).

The valuable book, Canon of Medicine, was written by Ibn Sina (One of the most prominent Iranian scientists between 9 and 14 AD) (17). Chapter 12 of the third volume of this book is related to sexual health, measures and treatment of its disorders. In this chapter, libido is described as "Bah" (15) which explains the cause of decreased sexual desire, signs and treatment of any of the causes in detail (18).

In Persian Medicine sources, weakness of the main organs (heart, brain and live) is one of the leading causes of decreased sexual desire (Bah). Accordingly, strengthening the main organs is the main priority of weak sexual desire treatment (18, 19). Melissa officinalis is one of the tonic drugs for the main organs in ITM (20). This medicinal herb was mentioned in PM with the name "Badranjboye". The history of use of this medicinal plant is ancient Persia and its cultivation ability in different regions of Iran indicates that it is indigenous, available and it has been used for thousands of years in Iran (21).

 

Recent animal and human studies have shown the different therapeutic applications of M. officinalis which are: as anti-anxiety (24), antidepressants (25, 26), for improvement of cognitive function and mood (27), for calming and positive effect on the immune system and stress (28), for Alzheimer's disease (29), nervous sleeping disorders and functional gastrointestinal complaints (22). Even though the treatment of nervous debility has been reported to be among the pharmacological effects of M. officinalis in PDR which is used in folk medicine (23), there has not been any trial that evaluated its effect on the improvement of decreased sexual desire in women.

The objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of M. officinalis extract on the improvement of sexual dysfunction in women aged 18 to 50 years.

 

 

Anyone chilled out who will politely develop a line of thought based on rational arguments is most welcome to agree, disagree, question or whatever.

 

 

[sedentary]

sustanon eh? feeling like 14 year old again. i like the sound of that. maybe ill get me some sustanon next time i visit a porn convention.

[Seganfredo]

Merry belated Xmas and happy 2020 to all,

This will sound very ADD, I'm sleepy and writing on my phone, but this might just be priceless to anyone who's mining the forum for help dealing with the same problem. So, if this helps you, read on.

I'm glad to say I'm very probably finishing to reverse all the negative effects that (I thought) started with Piracetam. I must say it's a LOT more complex than just "piracetam caused this".

I've got loads of understandings about what went on and some confounding factors too, that I gathered through scholarly research, experimentation, and much thought, and primarily it's this, in a nutshell: people who knowingly of unknowingly have their bodies taken by a severe viral infection, active or dormant (especially the herpetic type, usually Epstein barr, herpes simplex, HH8, possibly XMRV - after much study I have concluded it actually may be a human pathogen after all - and other lymphocryptoviruses alike) get a damaged HPA axis and will break down with excessive stimulation and stress (caffeine excess, chronic anger, too little sleep, overexercising, too much sexual activity, chronically worrying, etc). It all comes out of balance and breaks down specially quickly with the use of piracetam, as IT IS A POTENT ANTIVIRAL DRUG (This is well established, though it's a relatively obscure fact - and it's specifically active against herpes types of viruses lodged in the brain and nerves) that attacks even dormant viruses on ganglia, crossing the blood-brain barrier, "waking" the virus up and leading it to restart multiplying and actively waging war on the system. Bad bugs causing IBS and tearing down the gut and then brain barriers leading to viral infestation of the brain tissue and other organs are the big causative/originating factor here - not truly the piracetam. It all eventually kick starts a cascade of autoimmune events that aren't pretty - MS, arthritis, psoriasis, dermatitis, seborrhea, double vision and eye floaters, terrible pain and every other autoimmune condition on the book; in short, CFS/ME. It causes HPA axis dysregulation, fatigue and whatnot. In my case, as a plus, it took hold of the vagus nerve (makes sense it took hold of it, as it's the way from the gut to the brain), so it greatly bothered even my respiration.


So, Coffee,

...usually stressed, check.
Addicted to stimulants, check. (Realize: sex IS a stimulant, especially when had in excess and without rest, and so is anger, arguments, worry, so on and so forth.)
"warrior" type of worldview, check.
get easily angered/constantly anxious about stuff/have a ton of worries and/or responsibilities - idk (all are stimulating)
panic attacks - idk

I know, dude. To me it felt like god/ the existence was punishing me for having a very active, great sex life with a terrible/ non existing one.


Anyway. What I've been using with huge success: colloidal silver, cannabis oil (always hated MJ, but studied the oil and ended up trying it - it's truly helping), LDN, autohemotherapy (no ozone), zero allergen therapy, starting detox, panax ginseng, some reishi, some licorice sometimes, loads of magnesium, tons of turmeric with piperine every night, tons of lemons each morning, 10kIU vit D, multivitamin A-Z for men, DHEA from Chinese yams, tDCS/microcurrent therapy, LLLT...
Just ordered hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bunch of stuff and am doing many different things based on tons of research. I'll just dump it all here. Bon appetit to any brave soul who dares to read it:

1 Schisandra, 
2 Autohemotherapy (with and without OZONE), only thing needed for AHT without ozone is a syringe and a needle. (Either ozone, or MMS, or hydrogen peroxide! Must choose.) Draw venal blood, apply to deltoids and/or butt cheeks (20ml total)
3 AIP Diet: LOWEST Arginine consumption possible, ZERO dairy products, gluten, and other allergens
4 Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root 
5 Rhodiola rosea (Golden root), 
6 DETOXING organs, especially from stimulant use (mallic acid, Epsom salts, etc. --> liver detox)
7 Panax ginseng Meyer, 
8 Reishi mushroom, 
9 Cordyceps, 
10 Holy basil/Tulsa tea
11 Hydrocortisone (carefully, low dose, short term - according to studies) - or even better, cattle adrenal cortex.
12 Licorice (warning: lowers T)
13 Magnesium,
14 homemade Cannabis oil (Cancers, FibroM, Arthritis, Viruses, ADHD, Depression, Anxiety, OCD, PTSD, Autism, Alzheimer's, BRAIN DAMAGE????)
15 PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE - sleep better, reduce anxiety, clear focus
16 - Turmeric WITH Piperine (Black Pepper)
17 Vit C (juice of 10-20 lemmons while fasting each morning - health bomb. ) - Immunity, antioxi, antiviral, lowers Blood Pressure, fights lead toxicity, weight loss help, better vision and eye health, cancer prevention and fighting, diabetes control, asthma, healing, antiaging, pigmentation protection against, protects from sun dam, cures dry skin.
18 Vit D3 - immunity, strong bones, higher T 10k+ IU/ day
19 L-Tyrosine bulk powder - several studies: mental performance (under stressful conditions, like cold, noise, etc), maintaning alertness during sleep deprivation (150mg/kg/day), memory recall support (under stressful conditions such as multitasking), phenylalanine gets synthesized into Tyrosine. 
20 Boron, 10mg/day
21 PREGNENOLONE. (Bought it, but it's forbidden in my country by the ruling retards).
22 DHEA (also controlled, but I supplement with yams and yacoms, which is perfect)
23 (if not using ozone or MMS) Hydrogen peroxide 35% (absolutely pure/food grade) - to take 3x/day on a glass of water (1 drop per glass on 1st day, then 2 per glass on 2nd day, 3, 4... until 25 drops per glass on day 25, then 24 drops x glass next day, 23... this is essential. Oxygenates body, gets blood pH much higher, kicks nasty hitchhikers out, restarts the gut microflora, and dissolves bad bugs' resistant protective film.) "THE ONE MINUTE CURE." Starts the true cure.
24 LDN (Low dose naltrexone)

MIXES: 33mg Vit C, Pantothenic Acid 10mg, Calcium 12mg, magnesium 8mg, Chromium 20mcg, "RELORA" (Magnolia officinalis + Phellodendron amurense bark extracts) 200mg, Green tea extract Camellia sinensis 90mg, Lecithin 50mg, Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) extract 20mg, Holy basil extract (Ocimum tenuiflorum) leaf 20mg, Reishi mushr. powder (Ganoderma lucidum) 20mg, 

tDCS - pretty useful.
LLLT - REALLY freaking helps. It's a keeper.

EXAMS: total testosterone, free t, dhea-s, DHT, salivary cortisol day (4 or 5 samples), androstenedione, estradiol, progesterone, pregnenolone, T3 free total, T4 free total, T7, PTH, TSH, HGH, B12, estrone, D25hydroxy, SHBG. + Blood panel, piss panel, crap panel (microflora composition - expensive, but may be SO worthy), if you can.


My partial results:
URIC ACID 4,70 mg/dL
ALDOSTERONE blood 26,4 ng/dL
ANDROSTENEDIONE 2,90 ng/mL
CREATININE 1,47 mg/dL
DHT 630,0 pg/mL
ESTRIOL E3 Inferior to 0,07 ng/mL
PROGESTERONE 0,94 ng/mL
S-DHEA 319,0 ug/dL
TESTOSTERONE TOTAL 1160,0 ng/dL
UREA 37,00 mg/dL
UROCULTURE (bacteriology) no microorganisms in the sample
T3 TOTAL 105,2 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE FREE 10,04 ng/dL (calculation method)
T4 FREE 0,98 ng/dL
PTH intact molecule blood 50,1 pg/mL
TSH 3,970 µUI/mL
HGH 0,10 ug/L
VITAMIN B12 423,0 pg/mL
ESTRONE E1 39,5 pg/mL
VITAMIN D 25 HYDROXY 80,1 ng/mL
MICROALBUMINURIA (isolated sample) 1,89 mg/g creatinine
T4 TOTAL 6,0 ug/dL
URINE EXAM - QUALITATIVE all within normal ranges
SHBG 124,2 nmol/L



"You can't possibly have bought and be taking/doing all of that".

Yes I have, I can, and yes I am. That's how seriously I take my full recovery. I'm seeing great results and benefits - but when we're talking about the HPA axis, a full recovery is most usually not done overnight even when sped up with LLLT and hyperoxygenation (h2o2, MMS, o3, hyperbaric chamber...). Overexercising still screws me up real bad. Still, I'm a million times better now and almost back to normal.



Now excuse me, I have to make a late late night bonfire out of the huge piles of wood and such I've left on the street before they call the authorities on me.

My brother, I was in prison from 19 years old to 21 and was popping stallion erections with morning wood while I was in prison fearing for my life. I continued to have amazing erections until the day I took PRAMIRACEAM which was at 25 years old. I know stress very well and was having sex like a porn star with mountains of stress in my life no problem. I consciously remember, after popping the pramiracetam, a feeling of a Rush running throughout my brain, within my skull, as if something in my brain was transforming, something was being sucked out almost feeling. It went on for about 15 minutes as my heart was racing, I was worried and was thinking wtf is going on. It almost felt as if it were at the center rear of my brain. The same right my dick did not rise to the occasion for my girlfriend that night, which the night before I f****** for 2 hours straight. After that fateful day i never had normal sex again. From 24years old this time and would buy like 5 pounds of noopepet at a time and pill it. I was poping nootropics like CANDY. I used to take Phenylpriacetam everyday for like a year before that also. I was taking piracetam everyday also and also commanded my girlfriend take it everyday also because I believed It increased my intelligence. I took pramiracetam that one fateful day just to see how it would go and I got my result. A dead dick for 7 years now. Thank you for your answer tho. I have tried more than 100 supplements to try to revive myself back to normal but nothing has worked other than Sustanon which I took once and I was like 14 years old again for 2 days but I will not do it again because I do not want to rely on steroid injections to have a normal sex drive. I will look into your herb tho and try it.