27 replies to this topic

[birthdaysuit]

Could it be low blood sugar? I will not know until I see a doctor this weekend. 
 
Initially, when one’s blood sugar drops too low, the brain is not getting the energy it needs, and the result is a feeling of serious fatigue, along with irritability and emotional swings due to the release of adrenal hormones.
 
Those suffering from hypoglycemia experience a roller coaster effect as their blood sugar bounces from low to high to low again, with multiple episodes throughout the day. Personally, I feel energized and lively in the waking hours of the morning but at around 10am I start to crash and by 3pm I feel beyond fatigued. My joints ache, my muscles hurt, I’m irritable and I can not even walk up stairs, let alone pick a box up. It’s just this overall fatigue, it’s debilitating. It causes brain fog as well!  All I want to do is space out because the burden of thought to accomplish a task is too tiresome.

 

I’m dying here and it’s having a detrimental impact on my daily tasks. Short-term emergency remedy that increases blood sugar is not an option, unless its natural. Most people tell me to drink a mountain dew or pepsi. No way. 

 

I take inositol 6 to 16g throughout the day and L-theanine at night, I stopped for multiple days but the fatigue is still there. 

Edited by birthdaysuit, 29 July 2015 - 03:52 AM.

[Artificiality]

What does your diet look like?

[birthdaysuit]

What does your diet look like?

 

Consists of organic veggie/fruit smoothies in the morning, with oat cereal or porridge. Sometimes I’ll have yogurt with the porridge. I take a DHA fish supplement in the morning as well as a vitamin D3 and inositol. For lunch I’ll have more vegetables and hemp based protein and in the evening i’ll have homemade pasta or something high in protein. Everyday changed but I believe me diet is healthy.    

[Duchykins]

 

 

 

Consists of organic veggie/fruit smoothies in the morning, with oat cereal or porridge. Sometimes I’ll have yogurt with the porridge. I take a DHA fish supplement in the morning as well as a vitamin D3 and inositol. For lunch I’ll have more vegetables and hemp based protein and in the evening i’ll have homemade pasta or something high in protein. Everyday changed but I believe me diet is healthy.    

 

 

 

Where's the meat?

[Deartothesun]

How much sleep do you get? Do you wake up feeling like you've had enough?


Also, do you think you eat enough carbs not to be in ketosis?

[Duchykins]

Are you getting enough regular complex carbs and fiber ... that was going to my next question.  

[renfr]

No meat?

It could be B12 deficiency.
Check your levels of B12, vitamin D, iron, testosterone, TSH, T3, T4.

Are you active?

[birthdaysuit]

 

 

 

 

Consists of organic veggie/fruit smoothies in the morning, with oat cereal or porridge. Sometimes I’ll have yogurt with the porridge. I take a DHA fish supplement in the morning as well as a vitamin D3 and inositol. For lunch I’ll have more vegetables and hemp based protein and in the evening i’ll have homemade pasta or something high in protein. Everyday changed but I believe me diet is healthy.    

 

 

 

Where's the meat?

 

I eat plant based protein. I’ll have meat every now and then but I usually try to refrain from eating red meat. I also eat Salmon and various other kinds of fish one to two times a week. 

Edited by birthdaysuit, 31 July 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[birthdaysuit]

How much sleep do you get? Do you wake up feeling like you've had enough?


Also, do you think you eat enough carbs not to be in ketosis?

I sleep 8-10 hours every night. I get an adequate amount of sleep. 

 

After feeling lethargic and tired for three straight hours I drank a high carb fruit drink and my energy level skyrocket for a good 45mins before falling back into a slump. 

[birthdaysuit]

Are you getting enough regular complex carbs and fiber ... that was going to my next question.  

I’m not sure. I eat a lot of fruits and wholegrain bread. For fiber I eat flax, chia and hemp. 

 

No meat?

It could be B12 deficiency.
Check your levels of B12, vitamin D, iron, testosterone, TSH, T3, T4.

Are you active?

I exercise heavily 4-5 times a week. My b12 levels are fine, I take a d3 supplement and I have never checked my testosterone, TSH, T3, or T4 levels.

[renfr]

It could be due to the fact that you exercise too much coupled with a energy intake inferior to what is required.

[Duchykins]

 

 

 

 

 

Consists of organic veggie/fruit smoothies in the morning, with oat cereal or porridge. Sometimes I’ll have yogurt with the porridge. I take a DHA fish supplement in the morning as well as a vitamin D3 and inositol. For lunch I’ll have more vegetables and hemp based protein and in the evening i’ll have homemade pasta or something high in protein. Everyday changed but I believe me diet is healthy.    

 

 

 

Where's the meat?

 

I eat plant based protein. I’ll have meat every now and then but I usually try to refrain from eating red meat. I also eat Salmon and various other kinds of fish one to two times a week. 

 

 

I don't eat red meat either but it's just a weird ick factor I have with the texture of some meats.

 

However since you don't eat meat regularly (I don't either but it's not a deliberate choice), you should be supplementing creatine, taurine, methylcobalamin (or hydroxocobalamin).  Also carnitine (not ALCAR) since you don't get enough of it from plant sources and you don't manufacture enough in your body.  Lastly either beta alanine or straight carnosine.  Our species has been eating meat long enough to be a tad dependent on it for optimal health.  There is no way to get around it.  Species that are actually well suited for plant diets (or nearly entirely plant diets) don't have these problems with these nutrients.

 

You wouldn't need to take the large doses that are advertised for most of those products.  Nutritional doses are fine, eg creatine daily dose between 500 mg and 1 g (as opposed to the recommended 5 grams for weight lifting), which is approximately the amount the average nonvegetarian person consumes.

 

You are hindering your own mitochondrial energy production otherwise.  Other things as well.  This is why so many vegetarians complain of fatigue or are just generally slow (physically and mentally) no matter how strongly they want to believe the cause is something other than their inappropriate diet.

 

This is why it makes sense that you got a short but marked energy boost from the drink.  (Though you should be getting your carbs from foods, not fruit drinks.)

The exercise could be making things worse as well.

Edited by Duchykins, 31 July 2015 - 05:00 PM.

[ta5]

I normally don't like it when people reply with, "ask your doctor," because of course you know that's an option. But this is a good question for a doctor to investigate. It could be any number of things. It could be something serious. Just guessing and using trial and error could take forever to figure out. You should start with a big blood panel and see what is out of line. You could be anemic, low iron, ferritin, b12, hypothyroid, or other hormones. 

[Infinite1]

There are a multitude of potential causes of fatigue, it is quite difficult to impossible to parse out what exactly the root cause may be from this. It would be good to know details about the onset of this; was it sudden/rapid or a gradual slip downwards. Do you have symptoms such as fever or numbness in extremities, intestinal issues etc. ? Your description is quite consistent with a number of possible infections the most notable of which is Lyme's disease- coming from someone who went through that hell for a number of years before a proper diagnosis. 

 

For the moment you may wish to augment your protein in case you are anemic. There is an excellent protein powder that I have used that is derived from all organic/vegetable sources and has a better amino acid profile than most whey protein; Nitro Fusion.  

[birthdaysuit]

There are a multitude of potential causes of fatigue, it is quite difficult to impossible to parse out what exactly the root cause may be from this. It would be good to know details about the onset of this; was it sudden/rapid or a gradual slip downwards. Do you have symptoms such as fever or numbness in extremities, intestinal issues etc. ? Your description is quite consistent with a number of possible infections the most notable of which is Lyme's disease- coming from someone who went through that hell for a number of years before a proper diagnosis. 

 

For the moment you may wish to augment your protein in case you are anemic. There is an excellent protein powder that I have used that is derived from all organic/vegetable sources and has a better amino acid profile than most whey protein; Nitro Fusion.  

 Well after my cannabis induced panic attack, I quit cold turkey and went to the doctors because I was confused and quite fatigued. This was about 10months ago. My brain was in a fog, I could not concentrate, my eyesight was blurry and dull almost like I was looking through a film of grey, sounds were earsplitting, I had a full prickly rash all over my body, I had tingling in the fingers and an odd sensation in my left front-upper side of my head that resembled a void/black hole. To cope with the sensation I usually try to occupy myself with something or else the sensation will become too overwhelming. I also for a few days experienced numbness in my left cheek/jaw area. Nevertheless, I talked to my doctor and she asked me some fairly easy questions but for some strange reason I could not answer them. I was confused and anxious and did not know when my birthday was. She was very concerned and wanted me to go to the emergency room, but instead I was tested for Lyme disease two days later and the blood test was negative. 

 

However, as a child I was tested for lyme and one test came back false positive. So that kind of scares me. I know of someone who had various tests for lyme and they all came back negative. Only when he went in for a spinal tape was lyme positive. 

 

I also live in the North East, so lyme is quite prevalent. I’ll talk to my doctor. 

[birthdaysuit]

 

 

 

I don't eat red meat either but it's just a weird ick factor I have with the texture of some meats.

 

However since you don't eat meat regularly (I don't either but it's not a deliberate choice), you should be supplementing creatine, taurine, methylcobalamin (or hydroxocobalamin).  Also carnitine (not ALCAR) since you don't get enough of it from plant sources and you don't manufacture enough in your body.  Lastly either beta alanine or straight carnosine.  Our species has been eating meat long enough to be a tad dependent on it for optimal health.  There is no way to get around it.  Species that are actually well suited for plant diets (or nearly entirely plant diets) don't have these problems with these nutrients.

 

You wouldn't need to take the large doses that are advertised for most of those products.  Nutritional doses are fine, eg creatine daily dose between 500 mg and 1 g (as opposed to the recommended 5 grams for weight lifting), which is approximately the amount the average nonvegetarian person consumes.

 

You are hindering your own mitochondrial energy production otherwise.  Other things as well.  This is why so many vegetarians complain of fatigue or are just generally slow (physically and mentally) no matter how strongly they want to believe the cause is something other than their inappropriate diet.

 

This is why it makes sense that you got a short but marked energy boost from the drink.  (Though you should be getting your carbs from foods, not fruit drinks.)

The exercise could be making things worse as well.

 

Could you link me to any good brands for taurine and carnitine? 

Edited by birthdaysuit, 31 July 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[Duchykins]

Well I get my taurine from Powder City, 250 g  @ $7,  and my carnitine tabs from Swanson Vitamins, 500 mg @ 100 tabs $9.50. My beta alanine is also from PC, 100 g @ $7.75  but I rarely use it because I think it triggers migraines and I haven't gotten around to testing again to make sure.  Creatine from same place, PC,  though I'm thinking when I run out I will go back on  ON's micronized creatine.

 

If you're going to order from Swanson you might as well order their activated B complex, get some extra riboflavin, extra thiamine, pantethine, Albion multi mineral w/o iron, magnesium malate, Super DPA, natural coq10 200mg with tocotreniols, milk thistle, 

[Infinite1]

 

There are a multitude of potential causes of fatigue, it is quite difficult to impossible to parse out what exactly the root cause may be from this. It would be good to know details about the onset of this; was it sudden/rapid or a gradual slip downwards. Do you have symptoms such as fever or numbness in extremities, intestinal issues etc. ? Your description is quite consistent with a number of possible infections the most notable of which is Lyme's disease- coming from someone who went through that hell for a number of years before a proper diagnosis. 

 

For the moment you may wish to augment your protein in case you are anemic. There is an excellent protein powder that I have used that is derived from all organic/vegetable sources and has a better amino acid profile than most whey protein; Nitro Fusion.  

 Well after my cannabis induced panic attack, I quit cold turkey and went to the doctors because I was confused and quite fatigued. This was about 10months ago. My brain was in a fog, I could not concentrate, my eyesight was blurry and dull almost like I was looking through a film of grey, sounds were earsplitting, I had a full prickly rash all over my body, I had tingling in the fingers and an odd sensation in my left front-upper side of my head that resembled a void/black hole. To cope with the sensation I usually try to occupy myself with something or else the sensation will become too overwhelming. I also for a few days experienced numbness in my left cheek/jaw area. Nevertheless, I talked to my doctor and she asked me some fairly easy questions but for some strange reason I could not answer them. I was confused and anxious and did not know when my birthday was. She was very concerned and wanted me to go to the emergency room, but instead I was tested for Lyme disease two days later and the blood test was negative. 

 

However, as a child I was tested for lyme and one test came back false positive. So that kind of scares me. I know of someone who had various tests for lyme and they all came back negative. Only when he went in for a spinal tape was lyme positive. 

 

I also live in the North East, so lyme is quite prevalent. I’ll talk to my doctor. 

 

Testing for Lyme's Disease is a finicky thing. False negatives commonly occur, false positives are quite rare. If you test too early after contracting the illness you will not have a positive result since your body has not yet produced antibodies, if you test several months to years later your immune system will be suppressed once again producing a false negative. I would be interested to know by what basis your doctor determined that you lab was in fact false positive. 

 

FYI- They are finding the most appropriate way to test for Lyme is to give someone a broad spectrum antibiotic such as doxycycline a few weeks before the test, this will provoke an immune system response and will often produce positive bands on a Western blot if one in fact does have the bacteria. 

 

That aside you should be tested for mono/ Epstein Barr, the fact that you are sleeping very well would support this type of infection more-so. With Lyme or other inflammatory illnesses once it hits the CNS you will be lucky to get an hour or two a night without being significantly tranquilized with sleep meds. 

[Deartothesun]

I suffer from some extreme tiredness sometimes, no matter how much I sleep. In my case, I am pretty sure it is mainly because of my battle with Atypical Depression. If you find yourself craving carbs (and food in general) too much, and if you find that you can sleep until the cows come home, (and have a strong urge to) you may be suffering from Atypical Depression. Also sleep studies can be helpful, if you can afford a good one. And of course try the obvious things such as getting more sunlight, and having enough light physical activity during the day.




Do you struggle with anxiety much?

[birthdaysuit]

I suffer from some extreme tiredness sometimes, no matter how much I sleep. In my case, I am pretty sure it is mainly because of my battle with Atypical Depression. If you find yourself craving carbs (and food in general) too much, and if you find that you can sleep until the cows come home, (and have a strong urge to) you may be suffering from Atypical Depression. Also sleep studies can be helpful, if you can afford a good one. And of course try the obvious things such as getting more sunlight, and having enough light physical activity during the day.




Do you struggle with anxiety much?

Two nights ago I slept for no more then 2hrs and the very next day at work I felt perfectly fine. I was socially inclined, with lots of charisma. 
 
Last night I slept for a good 8hrs and today I felt like complete crap. Lethargic, lackadaisical, and completely spaced out. I could barely think.

With inositol I can fall asleep in 5mins, without it it takes a good 3hrs for me to fall asleep. I’m not depressed per say, but I do suffer from generalzied anxiety.

Thanks for the reply!

[Infinite1]

As you are most likely aware acute sleep loss induces compensatory mechanisms from the HPA axis with ultimately a large spike in cortisol. The effects you are most likely noticing is simply this increase, this also would suggest that your adrenal system has taken a hit. 

 

My personal belief (along scientific backing of recent) is that most psychiatric, neurodegenerative, and unexplained exotic syndromes involve some form of pathogen in the initial stages of its manifestation. I would still urge you to have more testing performed to ensure this isn't the case for you.

 

If nothing else at least use some adaptogens to help your HPA axis a bit, you may wish to supplement with some pregnenolone as it is a precursor to cortisol- however I do remember hearing at one time it reduced cortisol levels...

[birthdaysuit]

As you are most likely aware acute sleep loss induces compensatory mechanisms from the HPA axis with ultimately a large spike in cortisol. The effects you are most likely noticing is simply this increase, this also would suggest that your adrenal system has taken a hit. 
 
My personal belief (along scientific backing of recent) is that most psychiatric, neurodegenerative, and unexplained exotic syndromes involve some form of pathogen in the initial stages of its manifestation. I would still urge you to have more testing performed to ensure this isn't the case for you.
 
If nothing else at least use some adaptogens to help your HPA axis a bit, you may wish to supplement with some pregnenolone as it is a precursor to cortisol- however I do remember hearing at one time it reduced cortisol levels...

 

"An increase in oxytocin, resulting for instance from positive social interactions acts to suppress the HPA axis and thereby counteracts stress, promoting positive health effects such as wound healing.” Stressors that are uncontrollable, threaten physical integrity, or involve trauma tend to have a high, flat diurnal profile of cortisol release (with lower-than-normal levels of cortisol in the morning and higher-than-normal levels in the evening) resulting in a high overall level of daily cortisol release. On the other hand, controllable stressors tend to produce higher-than-normal morning cortisol.” Thought that was very interesting. 

 

It is also known that HPA axis hormones are related to certain skin diseases. Which is funny because I have developed small patch of psoriasis on the back of my head, usually appearing during an anxious week as well as a prickly rash all over my body. 

 

 

[birthdaysuit]

I have noticed something a little concerning in regards to myo-inositol. I have been taking it for a few weeks and it has completely cured my insomnia. Usually, I will take it 20mins before bed. Taking no more than 12g I fall asleep in 2-5mins. I have tried taking it throughout the day halving the dose but it knocks me out and makes me feel lethargic. Now the concerning part. As I start to feel its psychoactive effects, It seems like I can’t think at all, this is great for OCD and it works very well for it but it eliminates what short term memory I did have. 

 

I’ll wake up in the morning and tell myself I’m leaving my keys here and I will remember where they are. One minute later and I forget. I’ll do this over and over again, and this only happens after I take inositol. I haven’t found any information in regards to inositol’s affect on short term memory but I would love someone to chime in. 

 

Moreover, today I ate a few carrots, an apple and made a banana, flax seed, chia seed, strawberry yogurt, maca smoothie and have never felt better. I didn’t take my fish oil pill nor my d3. I also noticed the whites of my eyes are a lot whiter and clearer. I took 400mg of rhodiola rosea as well. 

 

 

[scottknl]

From my quick look at what you eat, I'd say that you're lacking nuts in your diet.  A balanced fat intake (sat. fats 10g per day or less, some mono-unsaturated fats, with very low cholesterol) with a modest amount of omega 6 (ideally less than 15 g per day) and an appropriate amount of omega 3 (ideally 3 - 3.5 g per day) fatty acids from nuts and seeds is important for sustained energy throughout the day.  Replace some of the calories you're using for starchy foods with some fats. When you get the balance right you'll notice the difference in terms of better sustained energy until the next meal time.  It takes a bit of experimentation to get the balance right.  The extra fats will also help with the absorption of vitamins and minerals from your other diet components.  The balance of the fats should take care of the sore joints and muscles since the omega 3 act as an anti-inflammatory and the reduction of omega 6 which are inflammatory is also part of it.

Edited by scottknl, 08 August 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[jaiho]

Could also be depression without sadness.

The biggest issue with my depression is extreme fatigue, no matter what i eat, how well i sleep, etc.

only when i smash the depression with meds, my brain wakes up and i feel awake, the wrinkles around my eyes gone.

[metabrain]

I suffered from extreme tiredness most of my life and recently severe memory issues, it was dicovered recently that I had obstructive sleep apnea which is very rare in normal weight people. I am now on CPAP and my tiredness has decreased significantly, things to test for

 

Full blood profiles

Adrenals tested

Test for anemia or other blood disorder

Test for diabetes

Test for epilepsy (You can have epilepsy without seizures)

Test for sleep disorder

Take a course of stimulating anti depressants to rule out depression

MRI to rule out any obstruction or brain issues

Lyme disease test

Heart test with ultrasound  can pick up a hidden heart condition

 

Those are the reasons that come to mind

 

[Infinite1]

 

 Well after my cannabis induced panic attack, I quit cold turkey and went to the doctors because I was confused and quite fatigued. This was about 10months ago. My brain was in a fog, I could not concentrate, my eyesight was blurry and dull almost like I was looking through a film of grey, sounds were earsplitting, I had a full prickly rash all over my body, I had tingling in the fingers and an odd sensation in my left front-upper side of my head that resembled a void/black hole. To cope with the sensation I usually try to occupy myself with something or else the sensation will become too overwhelming. I also for a few days experienced numbness in my left cheek/jaw area. Nevertheless, I talked to my doctor and she asked me some fairly easy questions but for some strange reason I could not answer them. I was confused and anxious and did not know when my birthday was. She was very concerned and wanted me to go to the emergency room, but instead I was tested for Lyme disease two days later and the blood test was negative. 

 

However, as a child I was tested for lyme and one test came back false positive. So that kind of scares me. I know of someone who had various tests for lyme and they all came back negative. Only when he went in for a spinal tape was lyme positive. 

 

I also live in the North East, so lyme is quite prevalent. I’ll talk to my doctor. 

 

 

Any news? 

 

 

I honestly think that Lyme is most likely your issue. I've tried to refrain from self projecting but almost all of your symptoms are very much in line with what I've experienced previously; loss of visual acuity (grainy grey scale), peripheral neuropathy- pin and needles, loss of sensation,  noticeable change in consciousness, strange head pressures and sensations/numbness- the list goes on. The only difference for me is the lack of skin lesion or rash. 

 

No offense but these are all physical symptoms, especially the rash being objectively so - I would not entertain any diagnosis that is solely psychiatric in nature.

Edited by Infinite1, 27 August 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[iseethelight]

I think you suffer from insulin resistance and wheat intolerance. I had been the same way. Cutting all grains from my diet has helped tremendously. Quit the wheat, drop the pasta and oats, meet the meat, keep the veggies.

Edited by iseethelight, 28 August 2015 - 04:47 PM.