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brain fog, bad fatigue, please help


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#61 spaceistheplace

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 03:20 PM

Again. Avoid all these foods below.

caffeine
wheat
eggs
milk
all  refined, packaged, fast foods, and restaurant foods


Besides the last one, avoiding these food items should be done on a case by case basis. For me, I've found that reverting back to a vegetarian diet from a vegan one has helped considerably. Also the proper preparation of these foods ought to be taken into consideration. For instance, raw goat's milk warmed up and mixed with spices greatly increases its digestibility and assimilation. Taken cold, pasteurized, homogenized, and in excess, I can certainly see its inclusion on your list. There are similar examples for the rest.

#62 chilie lips

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:12 PM

What is your mourning temp? That will say alot about thyroid function, often better than a blood test. Many people with low thyroid are hot because of excessive levels of norepinephrine. Having low thyroid can lead to either hot or cold sweats depending on level of norepinephrine. Most people who complain about CFS are actually hypothyroid, although a blood test will not reveal it because of the flawed ranges.

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#63 purerealm

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 05:00 PM

when i was young i would wake up from heat intolerance.. i always needed my window open to blow a breeze across my face

#64 nootropicpete1

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 04:55 AM

i think that is with alot of people because i sleep much better when it is extremely cold in the room and i can't stand when it is warm in the house but then again you said that you actually wake up from it. I know it is hard to fall asleep, but waking up the middle of the night because of heat intolerance is not me. In the morning, sometimes it would be to hot to fall back asleep, but i would be too tired to wake up. So the heat intolerance is probably a sensitivity thing because of the fatigue you are in. At least, that is what i think it is for me.

#65 vinuneuro

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 05:50 AM

Purerealm, have you noticed anything regarding your body's ability to build/maintain muscle? I ask this because of it's relevance to testosterone. I can identify every single one of your symptoms in myself, and after countless hours of reading I believe my problem revolves around low testosterone and adrenal fatigue.

I sent you an email.

Edited by vinuneuro, 28 June 2007 - 06:06 AM.


#66 leben14

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:03 AM

I would agree with the previous posts regarding a thyroid issue. I have hashimoto's (autoimmune thyroid disorder) and have almost the exact symptoms you describe, otherwise known as brain fog (aka hell). Your experiences almost mirror mine, I remember writing essays with ease in school early in the year, and by the end of that same year I was zapped, I couldn't even form a sentence. I was horrified and confused and frightened, I had no idea what was happening to me or why, it was a somewhat gradual decline into to total darkness and zero cognitive function. I changed, I pretty much died 'inside', lost my personality, intelligence, motivation, will to live, social function (this is a hard one), etc etc etc.

The point is Adrenal fatigue/thyroid problems can cause a myriad of severe mental/physical symptoms just like the ones you describe. No doubt if you were tested/when you are tested you will be told you ranges are normal- GET A COPY OF YOUR LABS. You can do research online about what your numbers should look like to and whether they are suspicious or not. If so, do some research and find a good endocrinologist. You want to be sure this isn't the underlying issue, because if it is everything you describe can be corrected with proper treatment. Most doctors are rather ignorant about the thyroid and its effects on the mind/body, most doctors don't know shit thyroid conditions period. I wish you the best, hopefully you will find something that works for you.

some good websites are stopthethyroidmadness.com (they are a bit over the top there but still have good advice) and about.com thyroid section. you can also search "brain fog thyroid" in google and get alot of good information.

#67 tarbtl

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 03:44 AM

Hey,

I've posted here a few times before. I haven't had the time to update my situation so I'll try to combine it all in this reply.

I'm in almost the exact situation as you, only I'm 19.

I've basically devoted my entire life to trying to fix this and I'm almost there. Don't lose hope as there is ALWAYS a way. Go ahead and do a search on my posted threads and you'll find my intro post.

I basically always felt like you. Brain fog was the worst symptom. I could exercise and lift heavy weights. My body looks good, but I always feel like my brain stem is unplugged and the data from my senses weren't full registering. It's a shitty thing to live with. When interacting with others, you sorta space out and thoughts never seem coherent enough. It becomes frustrating and eventually leads to anxiety and depression as you begin to doubt yourself. It's related to sleepiness, but not quite. Sleep feels good because it provides relief from the constant battle in your brain.

I've tried so many things over the years. I've done all the blood tests, and although I'm somewhat low on the cortisol side of things, I simply can't attribute this to adrenal fatigue. I do not have all the symptoms. The biggest one that is lacking is the purely physical fatigue. I don't really have that.

So this summer, my life has changed completely.

First of all, my suggestion to you is to not dismiss the psychological aspect of this. I discarded it completely when I started my journey and it was a big mistake. Your perception on things is currently flawed and it needs to be fixed.

My theory is that some areas of your brain have been long unused due to some residual depression as well as bad work ethic and upbringing/outlook on life. This really plays a huge role.

Anyway, long story short, I was put on Wellbutrin and that helped a LOT. It didn't cure the symptoms but it was enough of a kick in the ass for me to start putting the work in.

What I started doing was reading and speaking a LOT. Socializing. Going out every day. I spent 3 hours daily reading books ALOUD and reciting stories. Sounds retarded but I knew exactly which parts of my brain needed to be stimulated and I just PLOWED through. Plow Plow Plow even if it feels dull and uncomfortable.

My depression is gone completely and that alone made AT LEAST 50% of my symptoms disappear. I'm very sociable now and talk to everyone (whereas I used to have heavy social anxiety).

The thing is, if you get all your shit together, it won't really matter if you have some minor intellectual shortcomings. It's something that is sort of hard to explain.

In addition to this, I started using nootropics a few months ago. The whole shabang. Piracetam, Alpha GPC, gingko, etc.etc. Definetly helped my thoughts become more coherent.

Start BELIEVING that you are smart and bright and all the good shit. If you don't believe it, your brain won't believe it and you will never, ever get better.

I'm still striving to find that last 25%. I will start TRT soon and see if it helps. A sleep study will also be conducted soon to rule out sleep apnea, which I suspect is the missing piece of the puzzle.

Either way, keep searching and don't give up man. Cuz that's all you got. You get to live another day and you have to go with THAT.

You can PM me any time if you want to talk or for more info.

Cheers,
-TARBTL

#68 purerealm

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 08:58 PM

tarbtl, interesting post, very interesting.

Whenever I speak now it seems to have a flat affect, sometimes my voice seems very awkward and foreign to me. It seems to me that reading things aloud would have a positive effect on my social anxiety and I think I will be trying that more often

What is TRT?

i'll keep you posted

#69 helly

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 04:47 PM

hi all.... I am 24 and for the past 4 years feel constantly exhausted. I have done a numerous amount of blood tests, an MRI scan of my brain and gone to a neurologist and two ENTs... I was told that it was stress. I was also told by one ENT that i have chronic sinusitis which prevents the full amount of oxygen i need in my brain. the other ENT said i have no such thing! im lost.. i basically feel very very detached from the world around me... i feel like im in a dream.. i find it so hard to read coz i find it hard to focus on words. i am also finding difficulaty in finding words when i speak and i also realise that my writing techniques aren't as good as they used to be. I feel like an old woman trapped in the body of a 24 yr old. I am very ambitious but my body is failing me. I feel tired all the time. I want to cry every time i take a medical test and it comes back negative coz i just want to find a solution to this problem. nothing works.. i took vitamins, ginseng.. nothing has an effect.. i feel like im seeing stars all the time and always have big big headaches.. can anybody help pls coz im really desperate now.

Thanks

Hel

Edited by helly, 21 August 2007 - 05:23 PM.


#70 krillin

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:56 PM

hi all.... I am 24 and for the past 4 years feel constantly exhausted. I have done a numerous amount of blood tests, an MRI scan of my brain and gone to a neurologist and two ENTs... I was told that it was stress. I was also told by one ENT that i have chronic sinusitis which prevents the full amount of oxygen i need in my brain. the other ENT said i have no such thing! im lost.. i basically feel very very detached from the world around me... i feel like im in a dream.. i find it so hard to read coz i find it hard to focus on words. i am also finding difficulaty in finding words when i speak and i also realise that my writing techniques aren't as good as they used to be. I feel like an old woman trapped in the body of a 24 yr old. I am very ambitious but my body is failing me. I feel tired all the time. I want to cry every time i take a medical test and it comes back negative coz i just want to find a solution to this problem. nothing works.. i took vitamins, ginseng.. nothing has an effect.. i feel like im seeing stars all the time and always have big big headaches.. can anybody help pls coz im really desperate now.

Thanks

Hel


Since you (may?) have sinusitis, it would be worthwhile to get allergy tested. Allergies can do a lot more than cause histamine symptoms. (Good luck finding an allergist who believes that, though. IMO they're utterly useless for anything other than testing and shots.) Tried CoQ10? It increases energy and dopamine, which solves brain fog for many. What kind of headaches do you get? Choline depletion can cause them. Allergies and chemical sensitivity can deplete choline by causing excessive serotonin release in the brain. Excessive serotonin also triggers migraine headaches.

#71 tarbtl

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 08:23 PM

Helly, please refer to my previous post as it applies to you as well.

Sounds like depression. Don't be quick to dismiss it. New research shows without a doubt that depression causes severe psychomotor retardation. There's probably nothing wrong with you as most of your symptoms sound psychosomatic.

I also have chronic sinusitis and allergies and it's the result of a less than optimal immune system. We all have some inherit genetic flaws that we'll have to deal with. I happen to be more prone to stress than most people. There's not all that much that can be done (yes there's a lot but there's also an upper limit to what the body can handle). Accept it. Do not feel you are an inferior human being because of this.

I know it sounds harsh but I've been there myself. Go to a psych and get some Wellbutrin.

#72 iforgotmyname

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:09 PM

tarbtl, purerealm, and others in the same boat: I have many of the same symptoms and life patterns as you all. I suspect I have mild aspergers, and all that comes with it (Obsessive compulsive disorder, brain fog, depression, fatigue, high anxiety, poor social skills, no motivation, etc).

Recently my parents forced me to get a job (ended up being BlockBuster). This forced me to do a low degree of communicating. My brain sortof caught on (slowly) and I've been improving ever since. I play videogames chronically, its a bad habit but now I constantly talk on Teamspeak/Ventrilo. Its better than nothing and talking to people (using your voice) really does stimulate your brain and helps in all sorts of ways. I am visiting my psychiatrist soon to get some Wellbutrin or some source of norepephrine and dopamine. I used to have low serotonin levels and I was treated for that (modafinil) thanks to this forum. That fixed about 10% of my problems. Working at BBV fixed about 15%. School is starting soon and thats even more socializing. Hopefully Wellbutrin will give me the motivation I need to get my HW done.

On a side note, does classical conditioning (eating your favorite food while doing HW) actually train your motivation to do HW?, because to me it seems like if I'm aware im trying to train my brain it won't work. Has anyone tried something like that?

#73 graatch

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 07:36 AM

>although a blood test will not reveal it because of the flawed ranges.

How would one go about testing thyroid function?

#74 revnik

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 07:42 AM

On a side note, does classical conditioning (eating your favorite food while doing HW) actually train your motivation to do HW?, because to me it seems like if I'm aware im trying to train my brain it won't work. Has anyone tried something like that?


I don't really believe in that stuff although it might help if you do it right... The best motivition you can cultivate is trough achieving succes I believe. Once you dilivered your HW in and you get some good grates in return, you'll be more motivatited to start off with the next one.

#75 helly

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:00 PM

im a very happy girl.... all going very well touch wood... i must rule out depression simply because I am not depressed... but thanks for your time anyway. Just took bloodtests an hour ago... testing for celiac, hormone imbalance and thyroid... will keep u posted.

#76 krillin

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 05:53 PM

>although a blood test will not reveal it because of the flawed ranges.

How would one go about testing thyroid function?


http://www.lef.org/p..._testing_05.htm

LEF thinks only the TSH official range is flawed, but doctors tend to only test that one. Is there reason to believe that the T3 and T4 official ranges are suspect?

#77 Russ Maughan

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 08:55 PM

I have a thaught. I remember days like that. It could be your mind is simply so fast you become exhausted quickly from both doubt and "risk" type analysis that you are not even aware of because you are so accustomed to it. I suggest read more for entertainment purposes, something fun and imaginative. Give that mind something easier to flash on.

#78 helly

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 06:53 PM

Thanks russartlover 1..... some doctors have suggested that because i am a great worrier... some have even men tioned Chronic fatigue syndrome.... i basically stress myself out over trivial things at times... i was told however that my fatigue could be from a hormone imbalance... could it be?

#79 purerealm

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 03:21 AM

yes. look into estrogen related stuff

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 12:51 AM



#81 purerealm

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 06:19 AM

I got a heavy metals hair test and i have higher than normal uranium, arsenic, slightly higher mercury. but i talked to the doctor and he thinks im just trying to find a reason to blame this on because i'm dysthymic. I think the dysthymia is the effect part of it not the cause so i'm going to look into hypothyroid... a lot of it does look very familiar but one thing he told me that was kind of a red flag was that, my problems had gone on so long that i stopped thinking of them as problems and more of as a status quo, something that can't be changed or that i'm unwilling to change.

i'll try to look for a neurologist as well, hopefully the answer is right around the corner.

#82 justink

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:30 PM

i'll try to look for a neurologist as well, hopefully the answer is right around the corner.


Because you've had a past diagnosis of depression/dysthymia, and given your age, you might have a hard time getting a referral to a neurologist for what you call "brain fog". And even if you do get a referral, the referring doctor may likely write a report for the neurologist saying that your cognitive problems are likely psychiatric in origin and a complication of long-term refractory depression, given that depression can cause cognitive problems, particularly if it persists long-term without abatement. So, you might have a fight on your hands just to get a neurologist to even consider that it might not be depression. When presented with symptom clusters in a young person without concomitant neurological symptoms like problems with coordination, etc, they are likely to deem it psychosomatic in origin. If you're lucky, you might convince one to order an MRI and an EEG after he quickly checks your reflexes, the ability of your eyes to track movement, and perhaps gives you a worthless MMSE. Often, the general practitioner will refuse to make any referral to a neurologist for someone complaining of mental symptoms along with fatigue, as general practice guidelines recommend that the family physician first refer to a psychiatrist who is supposedly more skilled at determining whether a neurological screening is appropriate.

If you have a psychiatrist, they sometimes will order brain EEG's or MRI's to rule out structural anomalies or seizure disorders if a patient is insistent. They are unlikely to be willing to order any other testing to check for organic disorders that can cause brain fog, other than basic blood work and STD testing, as it is not conventional for psychiatrists to do so, except occassionally in in-patient care in a mental ward. More often what psychiatrists in combination with a psychologist will do is force you into talk-therapy where they will pick at you until you tell them of some troubling event in your life such as a repressed memory of sexual abuse, physical abuse, or humuliation, and then convince you that all of your physical and psychic complaints are a result of your life experiences.

You can go to a neurologist without a referral if the particular neurologist takes such appointments, but most insurances will not pay without a referral.

There is also a type of doctor called a "neuropsychiatrist", a doctor with certification in both psychiatry and neurology who specializes in differentiating between neurological and psychiatric disoders, or uncovering combinations thereof. A neuropsychiatrist might be the best choice in your case, and you might have an easier time getting a referral. There aren't many of these doctors however. You might have to travel to a nearby large city if you don't already live in one.

Personally, if I were you I would press for an FDG-PET scan of the brain, as MRI's and EEG scans are normal more often than not in someone your age presenting with "brain fog", and functional brain imaging is much more likely to show a problem. Ironically, only MRI's and EEG's are likely to be ordered, though, despite the fact that they are statistically less helpful in finding problems in a young person with minimal cognitive impairment. In your case, insurance likely would not pay for functional brain imaging. A SPECT scan is less expensive than a PET scan (costing sometimes under a thousand dollars rather than several thousand dollars), but it's not as sensitive as PET or (f)MRI. Another problem would be in finding a doctor who would actually be willing to order a PET/SPECT scan. Some neurologists/neuropsychiatrists would be willing to, but perhaps a minority. There are centers in the U.S. that order these routinely for someone complaining of these symptoms, however. You can do a web search.

As for blood work, ceruloplasmin levels can be checked to rule out Wilson's, you can have testing for certain viruses or lyme's disease, etc, but the chances that any one of these will turn up anything is fairly low, which is why doctors don't usually order them unless there are more telling symptoms other than the not uncommon complaints of brain fog and fatigue that the medical establishment believes is usually the result of depression where basic blood panels and nutrition are normal.

In summary, because a large percentage of people with long-term depression eventually report vague cognitive and physical symptoms like problems with memory, slow processing, bad executive skills, fatigue, unrefreshing sleep, etc, the most likely diagnosis often attributed to such symptoms in a young person without more telling symptoms is "depression."

Personally, years ago when I worked third shift I had many of the same complaints you have. Despite the fact that I got usually seven to eight hours of sleep, falling asleep after 5:00 AM and waking up in the afternoon caused me to feel confused, be depressed, and have some other vague cognitive complaints. After finding a new job with better hours, I began going to bed every night at 11:00 and getting up at 7:30AM, and all of my symptoms resolved with a couple of weeks. Circadian rhythm disturbances can definitely cause problems in people susceptible to such problems, and the time at which a person sleeps can be just as important as how long he sleeps. For some reason, some people are much more sensitive to this than others. It may be associated with different genes regulating sleep-wake patterns, melatonin, exposure to light etc. Quite a number of published studies establish that irregular sleeping patterns can lead to an array of depressive and cognitive symptoms in otherwise healthy individuals.

I would step back and evaluate how you live on a daily basis and see if any of it may be contributing to how you think and feel. (1) If you have a tendency to oversleep, undersleep, sleep at the wrong time. (2) If you have a tendency to what I call "vegetate"; in other words, spending long periods not doing anything to engage the mind or body which can lead to psychomotor retardation. (3) If you are not having significant social interaction. (4) If you are not being active physically and going outside, getting plenty of sunlight, etc. (4) If you might not be getting enough sunlight (seasonal affective disorder). (5) If your symptoms were preceded by a period of despair, active depression, trauma, etc.

Finally, you need to consider that after correcting any problems in your daily lifestyle, that it may take a few weeks to really start feeling a difference after improvements are made.

#83 purerealm

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 06:06 AM

Damn, well so much for the neurologist idea, I'm not going to pay out of my pocket for some SPECT/PET scans

I do indeed have sleeping problems, on weekends I tend to go out and stay up later, and consume large amounts of alcohol. But I find that a lot of the time when I try to establish consistent sleeping schedules, I will tend to stay up later and later, because my mind will wander around and around. Basically, if I don't feel absolutely exhausted it's pretty hard for me to fall asleep, and because of this I have established bad sleeping habits and sleep at around 2 am.

I don't think I've had refreshing sleep in about 15 years now, 3 quarters of my life.

I'm also prone to boredom, I don't have significant social interaction, I'm somewhat physically active. Most of the time that i'm "vegetating" I know I should be making better use of my time, but the motivation just isn't there. Anyway I'll keep this thread updated.

#84 gashinshotan

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 06:51 AM

Damn, well so much for the neurologist idea, I'm not going to pay out of my pocket for some SPECT/PET scans

I do indeed have sleeping problems, on weekends I tend to go out and stay up later, and consume large amounts of alcohol. But I find that a lot of the time when I try to establish consistent sleeping schedules, I will tend to stay up later and later, because my mind will wander around and around. Basically, if I don't feel absolutely exhausted it's pretty hard for me to fall asleep, and because of this I have established bad sleeping habits and sleep at around 2 am.

I don't think I've had refreshing sleep in about 15 years now, 3 quarters of my life.

I'm also prone to boredom, I don't have significant social interaction, I'm somewhat physically active. Most of the time that i'm "vegetating" I know I should be making better use of my time, but the motivation just isn't there. Anyway I'll keep this thread updated.


It's the alcohol! What the hell are you doing?

#85 justink

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 08:47 PM

Damn, well so much for the neurologist idea, I'm not going to pay out of my pocket for some SPECT/PET scans

I do indeed have sleeping problems, on weekends I tend to go out and stay up later, and consume large amounts of alcohol. But I find that a lot of the time when I try to establish consistent sleeping schedules, I will tend to stay up later and later, because my mind will wander around and around. Basically, if I don't feel absolutely exhausted it's pretty hard for me to fall asleep, and because of this I have established bad sleeping habits and sleep at around 2 am.

I don't think I've had refreshing sleep in about 15 years now, 3 quarters of my life.

I'm also prone to boredom, I don't have significant social interaction, I'm somewhat physically active. Most of the time that i'm "vegetating" I know I should be making better use of my time, but the motivation just isn't there. Anyway I'll keep this thread updated.


The types of problems you have with your lifestyle and daily habits have been experienced by countless millions of other people at some point in their lives. The difference is that some people allow it to continue chronically while others do not. If you're waiting for "motivation" to kick-in to get you out of the rut you are in, you might be waiting for a very long time, and it is more likely that you will just dig yourself a deeper hole that will be harder to get out of. More months and years will go by, and then you'll look back and think, "Why did I allow that to happen?" IMHO, it's not so much about motivation as it is about "self-discipline". People who are successful on a professional and personal level more often do things because they know that they "should", and not because they feel really motivated and excited about it. These people know that their efforts will pay off in the "long term". They do it because they know it will maximize their lifetime satisfaction and happiness on a long-term, more permanent basis. And the more a person avoids doing what they know they should be doing, the harder it will be when they try to do it. This even includes socializing. A person who becomes depressed and stops socially interacting may eventually have a hard time just saying "hello" to people or smiling, let alone making friendships.

The people you see getting up early every morning to exercise aren't always doing it because they're motivated and excited about it. They do it because they know they should and it's what's best for them. If people needed constant excitement and motivation to go to work, etc, the world as we know it wouldn't exist and most of the technology we have today wouldn't exist, either.

Also, there is no law or rule requiring people to go to college right after high school, although it may seem this way. For many people, this is not the best choice because although they have the intelligence to get through college, they may not be prepared on a personal level or have the level of self-discipline yet at that point in their lives to be successful in college. The grades are permanent, and this is unfortunate because there are people with the intellect to be an "A" student yet many of these same people may be flunking out of college because they don't have their act together. For some people, it makes sense to work a regular full-time job for some time first. It has the benefit of allowing young people to gain some independence from their parents, to mature, and to become more self-disciplined. Sometimes work can prepare a person for college more than college prepares a person for work.

Regardless of whatever might be best for you in your particular situation, you should probably be discussing your current academic and personal situation with school counselors, a psychologist, etc. The last thing you want to do is put off your problems anymore than you already have, because ignoring them is not going to make them go away.

#86 purerealm

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 09:29 PM

When you're used to functioning at 100% and you're suddenly brought down to about 20%, it pretty much obliterates your motivation. and i'm not exaggerating the numbers, I used to read swiftly but now I get hung up on all the words and phrases, I feel like a completely different person.

#87 justink

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:06 AM

When you're used to functioning at 100% and you're suddenly brought down to about 20%, it pretty much obliterates your motivation. and i'm not exaggerating the numbers, I used to read swiftly but now I get hung up on all the words and phrases, I feel like a completely different person.


If you really feel like you need something to jump-start you before you can make changes to your life, and assuming you're not on any medications, you might want to consider trying the sublingual form of NADH at 20mg in the morning under your tongue, and give it a few weeks. You can buy it at iherb and other vendors. There are other things you can try obviously, including prescription antidepressants like Emsam if you haven't already, but I would try NADH first. Just my personal opinion.

#88 purerealm

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:57 AM

When you're used to functioning at 100% and you're suddenly brought down to about 20%, it pretty much obliterates your motivation. and i'm not exaggerating the numbers, I used to read swiftly but now I get hung up on all the words and phrases, I feel like a completely different person.


If you really feel like you need something to jump-start you before you can make changes to your life, and assuming you're not on any medications, you might want to consider trying the sublingual form of NADH at 20mg in the morning under your tongue, and give it a few weeks. You can buy it at iherb and other vendors. There are other things you can try obviously, including prescription antidepressants like Emsam if you haven't already, but I would try NADH first. Just my personal opinion.



I don't think I need a jump starter, I think I need to get down to the root of my problems, where it be depression causing the psychosomatic symptoms, or perhaps thyroid problem causing depression, and the other symptoms and so on and so forth.

I don't think emsam would be a good idea for me as I've pretty much fried my receptors from taking massive amounts of dextroamphetamine and adderall. now if i take the slightest bit, it will have the opposite effect on me, so instead of focused I will be tired, drowsy, even less focused. This is how it was in the past anyway, I don't really feel like trying it again after I checked myself into the hospital about half a year ago for acute intoxication.

#89 graatch

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 03:21 AM

You need to fix your sleep quality.

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#90 justink

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:00 AM

I don't think I need a jump starter, I think I need to get down to the root of my problems, where it be depression causing the psychosomatic symptoms, or perhaps thyroid problem causing depression, and the other symptoms and so on and so forth.

I don't think emsam would be a good idea for me as I've pretty much fried my receptors from taking massive amounts of dextroamphetamine and adderall. now if i take the slightest bit, it will have the opposite effect on me, so instead of focused I will be tired, drowsy, even less focused. This is how it was in the past anyway, I don't really feel like trying it again after I checked myself into the hospital about half a year ago for acute intoxication.


I think you might be surprised at the effects of NADH at 20mg "sublingual" taken first thing in the morning. It's been shown in trials to improve both depression and cognitive dysfunction, and also improve cognitive function in people with circadian rhythm disturbances and "jet lag". The response rate in a clinical trial for depression was 85% within three weeks, and often initial benefit can be felt in as little as five days. Unlike other antidepressant medications which give a "medicated" feeling, including SAM-E for some people, the effects from NADH may seem more like a healthy normalization. It works in a healthier way than prescription antidepressants, and it works considerably faster. Prescription antidepressants take an average of five or six weeks to begin working, and have poor response rates. NADH improves energy levels in many people without the "stimulant" feeling you get on Ritalin or Adderall or Wellbutrin. In other words, it may likely feel more natural to you than other drugs you've tried. Standard mg doses of NADH have recently been increased because the previous standard dosages of five to ten miligrams may have been too low. A lot of natural substances are promoted and over-hyped for depression that may not be effective, but this is one that I believe may actually work for a substantial percentage of people.

With regard to Emsam, the reason I mentioned this medication is that it is transdermal selegiline, which unlike other antidepressants it is generally regarded to be neuroprotective and has also extended maximum lifespan in various animal species. It also lowers oxidative stress in the brain. It has the highest tolerance rate of any antidepressant according to published reviews, but the one common and significant side effect it has is shortened sleep cycle or insomnia. But, most of the most commonly used antidepressants have this side effect often including the SSRI's. An exception is the tricyclics which are used to promote sleep. But tricyclic antidepressants have been shown in the last ten years in mulitple studies to be neurotoxic, and should not be considered. Elavil, one of the most popular, has been shown to cause irreversible brain damage in animal models. And again, Emsam is neuroprotective rather than neurotoxic and has anti-inflammatory properties at the standard dosage of the 6mg patch, and also boosts levels of antioxidant enzymes in parts of the brain.

I would also avoid sleeping pills completely.

You need to normalize your sleep hygeine and go to bed and get up the same time each day and avoid oversleeping as well. You should be in bed by 11:00 and be up by 7:30 or 8:00, IMHO. Even if you don't sleep well on a particular night, do not sleep in. Get up at your regular time anyway. And then get some light exposure in the morning, preferably sunlight if you live in a sourthern state, otherwise some exposure to a SAD light at 10,000 lux. I'm not sure you understand that there are many, many studies documenting that circadian rhythm disturbances and shifts in sleep cycle and duration can cause cognitive dysfunction, fatigue, malaise and depression in people. This happens even in the short term with "jet lag" that travelers constantly complain about. Why some people are more susceptible to this than others isn't entirely clear at this point. There was a recent Russian study finding that people who stay up late and are active on a regular basis after midnight show multiple signs of accelerated aging.

Edited by justink, 07 December 2007 - 06:03 AM.





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