26 replies to this topic

[Fletch]

So my Grandma is 94...  She reads book after book and she is cognitively very sharp for her age.  She has very bad hearing, scoliosis, osteporosis, ... headaches and random aches and pains, etc. She gets "dizzy spells" constantly.  Chronic urinary tract infections. Degenerative disk disease, body-wide arthritis, pinched nerve in her neck, and benign tumor in her brain.

 

She takes vitamin D, magnesium,  vit C, cod liver oil, tylenol (daily). Rx for blood pressure, and cholestrol. Antibiotic DAILY for UTI's, and probiotics. Occasional tramadol.

 

I cannot get her to stop taking the statins or anything else for that matter.  I am not looking to extend her life as much as improve the quality of it.  She is very stubborn about taking anything without a Dr. Rx it.

 

So I'm looking for ONE supplement that may improve her pains and mood. If it improves her cognitive function that's a bonus.  It will probably have to be slipped in her food LOL.

 

I was thinking about giving her 50mg of DHEA and seeing what happens?  Was also thinking about Ubiquinol.  DHEA is convenient because as a powder it can be put in her food.    Oh, I forgot to mention that most pills of any kind upset her stomach. She has major digestive issues, to the point her Dr. told her not to eat any vegetables. I know, that's crazy!

 

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks

 

 

[zorba990]

Can you mix micronized resveratrol, koncentrated k, and a cut open ubiquinol 300mg into the cod liver oil? Try low sodium v8 for some vegetables. Just a tiny bit and work up. What probiotic are you using? Maybe switch it around, I'm currently using the high dose goodbelly with good results lp299v probiotic.

[platypus]

c60 olive-oil could easily be added to foodstuffs. 

[geo12the]

Probably too late to halt or reverse aging. I would give her supplements like curcumin that are anti-inflammatory. Reseveratrol could not hurt either 

[Fletch]

Thanks for the replies. She has agreed to take ubiquinol and dhea. I can't push anything else on her right now. I agree that curcumin would be good but considering her stubbornness I was looking for one or two things that would make the biggest impact on her sense of well being. No one commented on the dhea; do you not think it would make a big impact? At her age she must have close to none. She takes blood pressure meds and ubiquinol can lower bp. How concerned should I be?

[geo12the]

I might switch her from Tylenol to Ibuprofen. 

[niner]

I wouldn't worry too much about the blood pressure effect from the ubiquinol.  If she should get hypotensive, for example, if she starts getting light-headed upon standing, you might want to roll back the dose of either the bp med or the ubiquinol.  I'd give her some c60 olive oil in food.  Depending on the cause of the dizzy spells, it might help.  C60oo doesn't need to be dosed frequently; you could use it weekly or monthly, even.  A reasonable rate would be 0.5-1.0 mg/day, roughly 1-2 tsp/week of typical commercial c60oo.

[Brett Black]

This makes me very angry. How about you give her some damn respect? If she's cognitively "very sharp for her age" then allow her to make her own decisions! It's her body, it's her life. It seems like such a disrespectful and deceitful move to covertly put drugs into her food, and a breach of trust - made even worse if she feels dependent upon you. Not only that, it could be dangerous too. The stance of your Grandma, to only take doctor-prescribed medicine is reasonable and makes a lot of sense; whereas blindly experimenting with poorly-evidenced unregulated supplements has a whole lot of reasons going against it.

Edited by Brett Black, 28 August 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[Fletch]

This makes me very angry. How about you give her some damn respect? If she's cognitively "very sharp for her age" then allow her to make her own decisions! It's her body, it's her life. It seems like such a disrespectful and deceitful move to covertly put drugs into her food, and a breach of trust - made even worse if she feels dependent upon you. Not only that, it could be dangerous too. The stance of your Grandma, to only take doctor-prescribed medicine is reasonable and makes a lot of sense; whereas blindly experimenting with poorly-evidenced unregulated supplements has a whole lot of reasons going against it.

 

 

Would you care to share anything to support your opinion (i.e. contribute something useful)?  Or are you just trying to show some kind of moral superiority?  In what way is it dangerous?  If your concern was for my Grandmother you would share said dangers rather than making emotionally charged blanket statements. 

 

The stance of your Grandma, to only take doctor-prescribed medicine is reasonable and makes a lot of sense

 

 

Reasonable in what regard, and to what end?  Are you not aware that iatrogenic deaths are #3 on the list of all deaths in America where I live?  I would say that sentence is highly irresponsible, but to your credit you didn't bother to deal in specifics- so maybe what makes sense to you is a premature death?

 

Poorly Evidenced

 

-  Explain.  Seems like a subjective statement.  What constitutes 'poor evidence' and for what condition/s?

 

Dhea is not a drug. I would hope you know that. DHEA is a hormone and it declines with age.  Did you mean to type: "It seems such a disrespectful and deceitful move to covertly restore her hormone levels to a more youthful level, whereby she may feel better and lead a more enjoyable life for the last handful of years she has left."?

 

Unregulated supplements

 

- No supplements are regulated; that's redundant. Is your premise that unregulated substances are safer than regulated ones?  I hope not, because you'd be sadly mistaken and need to do a little more homework.

 

...has a whole lot of reasons going against it.

 

  That's a nice summary statement had you provided even one of those said reasons. 

 

Here's my summary statement:  Seems to me like you have some personal issues which my post may have triggered, and instead of providing a rational and helpful response, you chose to take the opportunity to take pot-shot at someone who is trying to improve the life of his family member.

 

I could go on to show how your moral compass only points north from where you're standing, and debate the ethics of interveining medically when someone needs it without their knowledge... But that would be a waste of my time. What I won't do is pretend that your post wasn't really about you and your need to stroke your ego, rather than my Grandma.  So, you've received the attention you were looking for. Hope you feel better...  now piss off.

 

* I had to come come back and edit this after somehow initially overlooking the fact that you didn't even bother to read the short thread before spouting off.   Had you done so, you would have read that she agreed to take the supplements and I obviously DID ask her.   But your were too busy focused on yourself and your opinion to bother with actually reading were'nt you.  Your lazy, confrontational and ignorant reply should be your utmost concern at this point. You've got a long road ahead of you before your ready to start passing moral judgements.

Edited by Fletch, 28 August 2015 - 05:29 AM.

[Fletch]

I might switch her from Tylenol to Ibuprofen. 

 

Thanks, I agree that tylenol is a bad choice regarding the liver.  I'm assuming she takes it because of her stomach upset with many pills but I will confirm.   Curcumin, as suggested earlier, is good for pain but her agreement to take dhea and ubiquinol is much more than I'd hoped for. Don't want to push it.

[Fletch]

Can you mix micronized resveratrol, koncentrated k, and a cut open ubiquinol 300mg into the cod liver oil? Try low sodium v8 for some vegetables. Just a tiny bit and work up. What probiotic are you using? Maybe switch it around, I'm currently using the high dose goodbelly with good results lp299v probiotic.

 

I'm not sure what probiotic she is on actually.  She takes a daily antibiotic so I'm not even sure how much a probiotic can possibly help her considering it's being killed off.

 

It's not worth the stress it would cause her to challenge her Doctors protocol at this point but were it up to me I would have her on Culturelle (lactobacillus gg), and saccharomyces boulardii.  I would hope to restore intestinal balance and get rid of the antibiotics.  The reason she take antibiotics daily is for reoccurring urinary tract infections.

Edited by Fletch, 28 August 2015 - 05:19 AM.

[sthira]

This makes me very angry. How about you give her some damn respect? If she's cognitively "very sharp for her age" then allow her to make her own decisions! It's her body, it's her life. It seems like such a disrespectful and deceitful move to covertly put drugs into her food, and a breach of trust - made even worse if she feels dependent upon you. Not only that, it could be dangerous too. The stance of your Grandma, to only take doctor-prescribed medicine is reasonable and makes a lot of sense; whereas blindly experimenting with poorly-evidenced unregulated supplements has a whole lot of reasons going against it.

Fletch, I know you mean well and love your grandmother and only want the best for her. But I must say I agree with Brett on this one. Slipping DHEA (or anything covertly) into your grandmother's food doesn't sit well with me, either. Any substance may have unintended consequences. And I guess if you think about it -- how would you feel if someone (even with good intentions) secretly put unknown substances into your food? And suggesting putting c60 olive oil I think is a bad idea. Use it yourself if you're experimental and curious. But giving it without consent to an elderly loved one? Wow... I'd never do such a thing myself...

Here is a case where some Internet knowledge -- even if well-researched and well-intended -- is possibly a bad thing. Doctors -- like her doctor or not -- has possibly spent hir entire life studying medicine and applying that knowledge to the best of hir ability. By contrast, you're reading some internet sites about unregulated supplements, and then presuming to know more than her doctor? I don't know, man, this just doesn't feel right to me...

[Fletch]

Let's put the emotional and ethical gut feelings aside long enough to examine the facts. What is it that you believe to be risky about giving an elderly person dhea? Do you have any evidence to support this being dangerous in any way?

If you read the thread (something that seems to be uncommon with people who like to respond with knee-jerk reactions) , you would know that I asked her about it and she agreed. Do you often go around trying to hijack threads with non-issues or is this just my lucky day?

Had I decided to give her some dhea in her food in order to assess objectively her mood, without having to deal with largely psychosomatic digestive problems with many pills she has, as well as the nocebo effect; I would have made her aware of the dhea so she could continue to take it on her own. Like it or not as you become older you become like a child again in many ways, and just like children need someone making certain decisions about their safety and well being, so do the elderly. This is why elderly people are the victim of much fraud and abuse.

I'm not going to debate this non-existent issue with you. If you want to have a philosophical debate on ethics then start a new thread in an alpropriate area, but this is not the place. It's off topic, irrelevant, and I'd venture to say even ignorant. Blanket statements about Internet sites and such are really ridiculous. Are you saying the Internet is not a good source of information? Are you saying that dr.s spend what you assume to be their "entire life" (actually 4 years) studying medicine out of only outdated text books and print publications? These are rhetorical questions for you to think about.. I do not want you posting a reply and further hijacking this thread unless you have something of value dealing in facts and specifics. The purpose of the these questions is to hopefully get you to see how absurd you sound. You could have just said "I agree." or even clicked on the agree button under his post. See how my posts actually have some substance to them. Let's make your goal to shoot for that. Your welcome to use this as a template. I don't want to hinder your growth but let's agree to do it somewhere else that is relevant. There's thousands of yahoo articles you can give your opinion on. No need to come here.

Edited by Fletch, 28 August 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[zorba990]

I do agree she should know and agree to what she is taking. After all, even from a scientific viewpoint, her decisions have enabled her to get farther than most in the age spectrum. I was just thinking liquids woukd be easier. I have found both micronized resveratrol and high dose k2 easy to take in fish oil. Maybe it woukd help to try and lobby for spectracell or other testing that coukd showndefinitive coq10 deficiency from statins.

Edited by zorba990, 29 August 2015 - 12:49 AM.

[niner]

 

I might switch her from Tylenol to Ibuprofen.

 
Thanks, I agree that tylenol is a bad choice regarding the liver.  I'm assuming she takes it because of her stomach upset with many pills but I will confirm.   Curcumin, as suggested earlier, is good for pain but her agreement to take dhea and ubiquinol is much more than I'd hoped for. Don't want to push it.

 

I'd advise against this.  NSAIDs are a dangerous category for the elderly because of their association with GI bleeds and renal damage.  Tylenol is actually quite safe as long as you keep the total dose in a safe range.  For someone her age, 2 grams/day is probably as high as you should go.  Is her kidney and liver function normal?

[Fletch]

Ok guys... She knows what she is taking. I read her some info on dhea and she agreed to try it. But I changed my mind after contemplating it some more. I don't want to lower her good cholesterol or throw off her cortisol:DHEA. Plus dhea concerts to testosterone and estrogen. I'm going to stay away from hormones but ubiquinol and circumin should hopefully provide a noticeable improvement for her.

[Brett Black]

This makes me very angry. How about you give her some damn respect? If she's cognitively "very sharp for her age" then allow her to make her own decisions! It's her body, it's her life. It seems like such a disrespectful and deceitful move to covertly put drugs into her food, and a breach of trust - made even worse if she feels dependent upon you. Not only that, it could be dangerous too. The stance of your Grandma, to only take doctor-prescribed medicine is reasonable and makes a lot of sense; whereas blindly experimenting with poorly-evidenced unregulated supplements has a whole lot of reasons going against it.

 
 
Would you care to share anything to support your opinion (i.e. contribute something useful)?  Or are you just trying to show some kind of moral superiority?  In what way is it dangerous?  If your concern was for my Grandmother you would share said dangers rather than making emotionally charged blanket statements.

 
 

The stance of your Grandma, to only take doctor-prescribed medicine is reasonable and makes a lot of sense

 
Reasonable in what regard, and to what end?  Are you not aware that iatrogenic deaths are #3 on the list of all deaths in America where I live?  I would say that sentence is highly irresponsible, but to your credit you didn't bother to deal in specifics- so maybe what makes sense to you is a premature death?
 

Poorly Evidenced

-  Explain.  Seems like a subjective statement.  What constitutes 'poor evidence' and for what condition/s?
 
Dhea is not a drug. I would hope you know that. DHEA is a hormone and it declines with age.  Did you mean to type: "It seems such a disrespectful and deceitful move to covertly restore her hormone levels to a more youthful level, whereby she may feel better and lead a more enjoyable life for the last handful of years she has left."?
 

Unregulated supplements

- No supplements are regulated; that's redundant. Is your premise that unregulated substances are safer than regulated ones?  I hope not, because you'd be sadly mistaken and need to do a little more homework.
 

...has a whole lot of reasons going against it.

  That's a nice summary statement had you provided even one of those said reasons. 
 
Here's my summary statement:  Seems to me like you have some personal issues which my post may have triggered, and instead of providing a rational and helpful response, you chose to take the opportunity to take pot-shot at someone who is trying to improve the life of his family member.
 
I could go on to show how your moral compass only points north from where you're standing, and debate the ethics of interveining medically when someone needs it without their knowledge... But that would be a waste of my time. What I won't do is pretend that your post wasn't really about you and your need to stroke your ego, rather than my Grandma.  So, you've received the attention you were looking for. Hope you feel better...  now piss off.
 
* I had to come come back and edit this after somehow initially overlooking the fact that you didn't even bother to read the short thread before spouting off.   Had you done so, you would have read that she agreed to take the supplements and I obviously DID ask her.   But your were too busy focused on yourself and your opinion to bother with actually reading were'nt you.  Your lazy, confrontational and ignorant reply should be your utmost concern at this point. You've got a long road ahead of you before your ready to start passing moral judgements.

Look, it's not complicated. You're considering covertly adulterating the food of a (possibly dependent!) supposed loved one with drugs because you want to impose your own choices upon them, even after they have explicitly stated their steadfast refusal of consent to take said drugs. I find this contemptible. I suggest you respect her choices. Furthermore, supplements are not without risk, which may be multiplied and magnified by unknowing exposure to said supplements (let alone the fact that this is a very elderly person suffering from widespread morbidity already.) This is not just a moral/ethical issue, but a safety issue too.

Edited by Brett Black, 29 August 2015 - 06:00 AM.

[sthira]

Ok guys... She knows what she is taking. I read her some info on dhea and she agreed to try it. But I changed my mind after contemplating it some more. I don't want to lower her good cholesterol or throw off her cortisol:DHEA. Plus dhea concerts to testosterone and estrogen. I'm going to stay away from hormones but ubiquinol and circumin should hopefully provide a noticeable improvement for her.

I'm happy to hear this. Anything you can do to strengthen the bond of a loving relationship with your grandmother is important, and maybe the best you can do. You'd feel terrible if you convinced her to take something that actually made her worse. I love my grandmother, too, and want to ease her suffering, and slow down, reverse her rapid aging. What a beautiful woman she is, and watching her decline is just so damned tragic. One day we'll have much better, safer, more effective tools. Until then, I agree with niner about the Tylenol. If you search online, you may discover some newer, safer NSAIDs, and suggest these for prescriptions that may more safely control the pain and with milder sides.

[AlexCanada]

DHEA screwed up my body big time. Lot of excessive body hair growth (that doesn't stop) and odd hormone levels after taking that garbage. It may be better suited towards seniors.

 

And yes, slipping anything into someone's food is unethical. Elitist, shady, and immoral characters on here is nothing new though. 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

DHEA screwed up my body big time. Lot of excessive body hair growth (that doesn't stop) and odd hormone levels after taking that garbage. It may be better suited towards seniors.

 

And yes, slipping anything into someone's food is unethical. Elitist, shady, and immoral characters on here is nothing new though. 

Wow, I'd love that side-effect of hair growth .. How much did you take? I found it to be a very mild supplement.

 

[Skyguy2005]

How about chopped tomatoes in juice or passata. Tomatoes are good for muscles. Also Granny SMith apples.

Edited by Skyguy2005, 04 May 2017 - 03:15 PM.

[Forever21]

Not supplements but maybe buy her a spot at Alcor?

[Rocket]

Hands down, BPC157 and CJC1295 w/DAC. Also Niacin and Garlic for lipids would be beneficial.

 

To the above post about tomoatos............. No, tomatoes are not "good" for muscles. Tomatadine found in green tomatoes has been found to be anabolic for skeletal muscle, but a person would have to eat entire baskets of green tomatoes a day to get any benefit. And there are no human studies to see if tomatidine is as effective in humans as it is in mice.

Edited by Rocket, 05 May 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Seriously, THE BEST thing ANY woman can do to fix ALL major age related diseases is to take her hormones, estrogen and progesterone. Doing this alone can cure sarcopenia, atherosclerosis, osteoporosis, dementia and many other issues.

Add niacin and selenium complex for blood coagulation and cancer management and she can undoubtedly live at least 10 more years, past her 100 years of age.

[MikeDC]

Niagen is a must. She will definitely get better.

[Dorian Grey]

I'm full of advice on what others may be interested in here on the forum, but I steer clear of  recommending supps for family and friends.   

 

I've gotten burned recommending doctors and dentists I feel are good.  Step daughter called the dentist I recommended "a butcher" because her experience with a root canal wasn't enjoyable, & I was branded an idiot for my opinion.  

 

At 94 years old, a significant health event may occur at any time, and whether it might possibly be related to an adverse event from supplementation or not, you might end up taking the blame.  Doctors always ask about medications and supplements when someone shows up for treatment, and many doc's are strongly anti supplement.  

 

She might be advised off any supps you've recommended, and you might suddenly find yourself branded responsible for any event that may be perceived as possibly connected.  Many supps affect blood coagulation (for instance) and hemorrhagic stroke is always possible in this age group.  

 

Are you ready to face the rest of the family if a doc points to a supp you recommended as a possible cause of why granny is in ICU on a vent?   

[beefnewton]

Metamucil