22 replies to this topic

[Qowpel]

So I have been looking at radiofrequency treatments and am very intrigued at how such things can lift jowls and actual subcutaneous fat tissue through tightening deep, rathe than superficial collagen.... however WE ONLY HAVE TOPICALS  that stimulate superficial collagen such as retin a or vitamin c serum or dermarolling. How on earth do we stimulate that deeper more important structural collagen?

[ta5]

Collagen precursors, gelatin, hydrolyzed collagen, amino acids like glycine, lysine, proline, hydroxylysine, hydroxyproline. Things that may increase collagen synthesis, #1 being Vitamin C, and maybe: Taurine, Cinnamon, Gotu Kola, Tocotrienols, Boron, Selenium, Cinnamon. (Just skimming my notes, there may not be any good evidence for those.) MMP inhibitors. Collagenase and Elastinase inhibitors, like white tea, rooibos tea. 

[Qowpel]

Collagen precursors, gelatin, hydrolyzed collagen, amino acids like glycine, lysine, proline, hydroxylysine, hydroxyproline. Things that may increase collagen synthesis, #1 being Vitamin C, and maybe: Taurine, Cinnamon, Gotu Kola, Tocotrienols, Boron, Selenium, Cinnamon. (Just skimming my notes, there may not be any good evidence for those.) MMP inhibitors. Collagenase and Elastinase inhibitors, like white tea, rooibos teWell doesn'

well doesnt vitamin c (topical) not count as it only works pretty much on superficial collagen (meaning mainly it is simply useful for skin roughness and a slight slight tightening of the skin? ) but not enough tightening and no real tightening of the more deep layers of collagen which would provide a lifting type of action (that is why people who use topical vitamin c see younger looking skin, but in terms of holding and or lifting subcutaneous fat tissue back into place, it does not do that whereas stimulation of deep collagen through radiofrequency  such as thermitight Does do that

[Heyman]

How do you know vitamin C stimulates only "superficial" collagen?

[Qowpel]

How do you know vitamin C stimulates only "superficial" collagen?

 

I could have sworn topical vitamin c enerally only simulated superficial collagen. Just as retin A does. I mean cmon. If it significantly did stimulate deeper collagen levels and restored them, then why does it not have the lifting effects of say, a radiofrequency treatment such as thermitight rf (which stimulates deeper collagen as it can lift jowls, etc)  Topical vitamin C simply cannot do that

[ta5]

well doesnt vitamin c (topical) not count as it only works pretty much on superficial collagen

 

 

I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if topical Vitamin C works on deeper layers. But, I was actually suggesting oral for everything I listed.

[Qowpel]

 

well doesnt vitamin c (topical) not count as it only works pretty much on superficial collagen

 

 

I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if topical Vitamin C works on deeper layers. But, I was actually suggesting oral for everything I listed.

 

Oh Oh I get ok man

[bosharpe]

Hmm. Aging being complex as it is it makes sense to tackle it on multiple levels. I'm like you Qowpel I'm trying to discover these things myself. The only things that come to mind other that topical applications are supplements (The usual suspects), diet (nuts, dark berries, fish, dark leafy vegetables, water etc), HA fillers, sun avoidance, stress avoidance. I'm personally undecided about the needling/HA/C combo. It has been said allows the antioxidant serums to work deeper inside the skin but I remember watching a Paula's choice video where she explained it was detrimental to the skin.

[Heyman]

I could have sworn topical vitamin c enerally only simulated superficial collagen. Just as retin A does. I mean cmon. If it significantly did stimulate deeper collagen levels and restored them, then why does it not have the lifting effects of say, a radiofrequency treatment such as thermitight rf (which stimulates deeper collagen as it can lift jowls, etc)  Topical vitamin C simply cannot do that

 

Are you sure this isn't just marketing? I really don't know about deeper collagen, is there research or evidence to suggest the importance? I always thought subcutaneous fat it is.

[ironfistx]

It has been said allows the antioxidant serums to work deeper inside the skin but I remember watching a Paula's choice video where she explained it was detrimental to the skin.

What is awful for the skin, the serums or deems rolling?

[bosharpe]

There are Ultrasound devices on the market too. Truth Vitality Lux would be one such item. It does Ultrasound and blue/red LED. I can't vouch for it but it has good reviews. Other than that topicals, supplements, diet & water, the usual suspects etc..

Edited by bosharpe, 26 June 2016 - 10:03 PM.

[TheFountain]

I can tell you what will lift the skin.

 

Raise your endogenous SOD levels. 

[bosharpe]

I can tell you what will lift the skin.

 

Raise your endogenous SOD levels. 

 

What success have you had with this?

[ironfistx]

Is the video saying needling the skin is bad or the lotions?

Edited by ironfistx, 30 June 2016 - 02:51 PM.

[TheFountain]

 

I can tell you what will lift the skin.

 

Raise your endogenous SOD levels. 

 

What success have you had with this?

 

 

Prevention. I'm not old nor was I old when I started it. 

 

But there are multiple reasons to raise endogenous SOD.

[bosharpe]

 

 

I can tell you what will lift the skin.

 

Raise your endogenous SOD levels. 

 

What success have you had with this?

 

 

Prevention. I'm not old nor was I old when I started it. 

 

But there are multiple reasons to raise endogenous SOD.

 

Through supplementation, like Life Extension's SOD?

[TheFountain]

 

 

 

I can tell you what will lift the skin.

 

Raise your endogenous SOD levels. 

 

What success have you had with this?

 

 

Prevention. I'm not old nor was I old when I started it. 

 

But there are multiple reasons to raise endogenous SOD.

 

Through supplementation, like Life Extension's SOD?

 

I would go for either GliSodin, or if you're Gluten sensitive, Enteric Coated SOD 2000 or 3000 (Check around).

 

Another thing that raises Endogenous SOD is Rooibos tea.

 

http://www.longecity...ses-sod-levels/

[bosharpe]

Thanks for that! I'm hesitate to add another supplement to my already expensive routine and I'm wondering if the difference is significant when taking it?

[Nate-2004]

I think the main topic here is the subcutaneous fat tissue that comes in addition to collagen with most people under the age of 25-30.   It's something that simply goes away and collagen supplements won't restore. Some in this thread are claiming that Rooibos tea will help with SOD but what is the evidence that SOD restores this "deeper collagen" or rather, baby fat that we all have till our later 20's. 

[TheFountain]

I think the main topic here is the subcutaneous fat tissue that comes in addition to collagen with most people under the age of 25-30.   It's something that simply goes away and collagen supplements won't restore. Some in this thread are claiming that Rooibos tea will help with SOD but what is the evidence that SOD restores this "deeper collagen" or rather, baby fat that we all have till our later 20's. 

 

Most of what people are talking about is skin sagging and sometimes skin atrophy due to environmental damage or overuse of acidic products.

That's why I addressed sagging first. Definitely lifting the face by raising endogenous SOD will help with your outer appearance. 

[Nate-2004]

 

I think the main topic here is the subcutaneous fat tissue that comes in addition to collagen with most people under the age of 25-30.   It's something that simply goes away and collagen supplements won't restore. Some in this thread are claiming that Rooibos tea will help with SOD but what is the evidence that SOD restores this "deeper collagen" or rather, baby fat that we all have till our later 20's. 

 

Most of what people are talking about is skin sagging and sometimes skin atrophy due to environmental damage or overuse of acidic products.

That's why I addressed sagging first. Definitely lifting the face by raising endogenous SOD will help with your outer appearance. 

 

 

What's the evidence that SOD does this, much less that Roobios raises SOD in humans, much less results in this outcome? People have been drinking this tea for a very long time, you would think it'd have more popularity.

[TheFountain]

 

 

I think the main topic here is the subcutaneous fat tissue that comes in addition to collagen with most people under the age of 25-30.   It's something that simply goes away and collagen supplements won't restore. Some in this thread are claiming that Rooibos tea will help with SOD but what is the evidence that SOD restores this "deeper collagen" or rather, baby fat that we all have till our later 20's. 

 

Most of what people are talking about is skin sagging and sometimes skin atrophy due to environmental damage or overuse of acidic products.

That's why I addressed sagging first. Definitely lifting the face by raising endogenous SOD will help with your outer appearance. 

 

 

What's the evidence that SOD does this, much less that Roobios raises SOD in humans, much less results in this outcome? People have been drinking this tea for a very long time, you would think it'd have more popularity.

 

You're on this forum, but you seem to have missed this.

 

http://www.longecity...ses-sod-levels/

[Nate-2004]

I didn't miss it. I read it. I just don't think the evidence is all that strong for what you're claiming above. Some people made good arguments on that thread.