145 replies to this topic

[Tubzy]

I just wanted to share some of my buddy's awesome regrowth. I am member of a private hair loss forum that has been researching the prostaglandin approach to MPB hair loss. Here is the link of my buddy (Swiss) who has had extremely awesome results and regrew hair on SLICK bald temples. Please clink the link below. I already posted in the other thread but I feel like this is easier.

http://swisstemples.....-progress.html

I would suggest reading through the blog.

Instead of addressing DHT, we are simply inhibiting the downstream effect of DHT. For example,

Testosterone-->DHT--->PGD2--->Miniaturizes follice and dies

We are simply inhibiting the PGD2 (prostaglandin) that causes the follicle to shrink instead of lowering/blocking DHT. A compound that does this is called Setipiprant which is currently in FDA trials now.

http://www.kythera.c...05-setipiprant/

How we know this is b/c there was a study done that PGD2 levels are 12 times higher in the scalp compared to non-balding males and DHT levels remain the same.

I'm part of a private forum we have access to compounds like this in the form of group buys. We are already on our third group buy and many members are having extremely positive results. We could use some more members too and we also focus in bodybuilding and fitness group buys as well (not just hairloss stuff). If you are interested in joining shoot me an email.

tubzy17@yahoo.com


Here is a more detailed summary of how the protocol works:

1. Plain old hormonal DHT -> PGD2 -> PGJ2 killer inflammation. Preventing neogenesis and new formation of anagen. 

2. Direct expression of PGD2 -> PGJ2 killer inflammation from already bald scalp/lost hairs. This is why removing androgens alone does not regrow hair and why almost nothing works to regrow hair on slick bald areas. The affected scalp is "genetically dead" and releasing harmful prostaglandins due to enzymatic PTGDS havoc.

3. Lack of cd34 and cd200 progenitor cells preventing *physical* growth of hair. These are absolutely crucial for the actual growth of hair. Normal scalp with hair is rich in both. Prostaglandin/genetically damaged scalp has none of these.

4. Lack of beneficial Prostaglandin expression. PGE2 and subsequently PGF2a and some others won't be created in dead scalp tissue due to genetical PTGDS overexpression already converting the PGH2 precursor into harmful prostaglandins (PGD chain) instead. Think of it like a cross road with all the traffic being led into the wrong direction.

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Edited by Tubzy, 27 September 2015 - 04:11 PM.

[Tubzy]

I just did a full write-up on the Area 1255 site.  Check it out if you want more info as I have been receiving many emails.

 

http://area1255.blog...ue-of-male.html

[Logic]

Hmmm....
I wonder where the idea came from!??
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=684741

Props to Swisstemples for taking it further though.
Is he on this forum?  Lurking?

This is ...almost in the 'Its too good to be true, so it isnt' catagory.
I always imagine the 1st guy with a bow and arrow being 'laughed out of town' by the cavemen with spears, so...
I believe the PGD2/PGE2 science to be solid here and will follow this with interest, but wont be saying too much.

[Tubzy]

Hmmm....
I wonder where the idea came from!??
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=684741

Props to Swisstemples for taking it further though.
Is he on this forum?  Lurking?

This is ...almost in the 'Its too good to be true, so it isnt' catagory.
I always imagine the 1st guy with a bow and arrow being 'laughed out of town' by the cavemen with spears, so...
I believe the PGD2/PGE2 science to be solid here and will follow this with interest, but wont be saying too much.

 

I didn't see that thread as I'm rarely on these forums.  I'm heavily involved in the hair loss community forums like HLT, BTT and HLH.  Also, Swiss is now on a private forum called PHG which I'm part of. If you had read my blog post the PG theory was heavily influenced by top researchers and doctors.  I have used OC000459 (topically) with success.  I have switched to setipiprant to due the safety profile and effectiveness.  I have also tried TM, but it's a pain to dissolve and need DMSO and water.  Also, it was never tested on humans.  Keep in mind I do not use AA's or 5AR's anymore due to sides (check my previous threads).  I was able to get my hands on Setipiprant a week ago.  Have been doing about 400-500mg orally with great results.  Other guys on the forum are using it topically at much lower dosages with success.  My shedding and itching practically done to nothing.  I also follow Swiss' ghetto PG regime too.  Which involves castor oil (to promote PGE2), neogenic (CD stimulation) and wounding (growth factors/CD stimulation).  I am waiting for my PGE2 to come in so I can start getting regrowth.

 

I quickly read over the thread you posted and aspirin is not a good choice or COX inhibitors in general.  COX inhibitor lower PGD2 but also PGE2 which is necessary for proper hair growth.  If you look at the chart I posted above you will see why.  

Edited by Tubzy, 17 October 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[zorba990]

Hmmm....
I wonder where the idea came from!??
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=684741


Props to Swisstemples for taking it further though.
Is he on this forum? Lurking?

This is ...almost in the 'Its too good to be true, so it isnt' catagory.
I always imagine the 1st guy with a bow and arrow being 'laughed out of town' by the cavemen with spears, so...
I believe the PGD2/PGE2 science to be solid here and will follow this with interest, but wont be saying too much.

Must things go the drug route?
What about Quercetin to block PgD2
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22470478

AA to unregulate PgE2
http://nutrientjourn...upplementation/

Wounding plus light therapy
http://www.seas.harv...to-repair-teeth

These aren't direct references, but you get the idea...

[Tubzy]

 

Hmmm....
I wonder where the idea came from!??
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=684741


Props to Swisstemples for taking it further though.
Is he on this forum? Lurking?

This is ...almost in the 'Its too good to be true, so it isnt' catagory.
I always imagine the 1st guy with a bow and arrow being 'laughed out of town' by the cavemen with spears, so...
I believe the PGD2/PGE2 science to be solid here and will follow this with interest, but wont be saying too much.

Must things go the drug route?
What about Quercetin to block PgD2
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22470478

AA to unregulate PgE2
http://nutrientjourn...upplementation/

Wounding plus light therapy
http://www.seas.harv...to-repair-teeth

These aren't direct references, but you get the idea...

 

 

Quercetin has been trialled by many members on PHG including myself with no results.  I don't believe it's strong enough

 

Castor oil partially activates PGE..PGE is supposely good for muscle growth  http://www.ergo-log....nd-bulkier.html

 

"It's a precursor of prostaglandins such as PGE-2 and PGF-2-alpha [formula bottom right], inflammatory factors that are released from muscle tissue after training and which play a key role in the growth and development of muscles."

 

Castor oil right now is the best thing to stimulate PGE.  Bimatoprost could work too but its a PGF2 analogue which is not a strong as straight PGE2.

 

Wounding plus light therapy is part of Swiss' ghetto regime (I don't use light therapy, just wounding)

Edited by Tubzy, 17 October 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[Logic]

I quickly read over the thread you posted and aspirin is not a good choice or COX inhibitors in general.  COX inhibitor lower PGD2 but also PGE2 which is necessary for proper hair growth.  If you look at the chart I posted above you will see why.

 
Yes I agree Aspirin isn't the answer as posted in post # 12
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=684741
 
Quote: Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:17 PM
 

Its seems that Aspirn will block the production of all Prostaglandins.

ie: PGD2 (also known as CRTH2), PGE2, PGF2α and others.
Now while PGD2 suppresses hair growth, the other do enhance it.
So what you need is a blocker specific to PPGD2, while upregulating PGE2 and PGF2α.

OC000459 and TM30089 are specific to PGD2/CRTH2.
http://www.hairlossh...MVIEWTMP=Linear

Sadly they are not as accessible as plain old Aspirin but there are sources mentioned in the link above.

The way to increase the others looks to be as simple as taking Niacin and has other extraordinarily good effects by increasing the expression of all the SIRTians.
http://www.longecity...es-again/page-1

But dont get me wrong: Swisstemples certainly took the research further.  I wasn't bald enough yet!
And Aspirin, Coffee and Astragalus in my shampoo stopped the recession.

Edited by Logic, 17 October 2015 - 06:30 PM.

[Tubzy]

 

I quickly read over the thread you posted and aspirin is not a good choice or COX inhibitors in general.  COX inhibitor lower PGD2 but also PGE2 which is necessary for proper hair growth.  If you look at the chart I posted above you will see why.

 
Yes I agree Aspirin isn't the answer as posted in post # 12
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=684741
 
Quote: Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:17 PM
 

Its seems that Aspirn will block the production of all Prostaglandins.

ie: PGD2 (also known as CRTH2), PGE2, PGF2α and others.
Now while PGD2 suppresses hair growth, the other do enhance it.
So what you need is a blocker specific to PPGD2, while upregulating PGE2 and PGF2α.

OC000459 and TM30089 are specific to PGD2/CRTH2.
http://www.hairlossh...MVIEWTMP=Linear

Sadly they are not as accessible as plain old Aspirin but there are sources mentioned in the link above.

The way to increase the others looks to be as simple as taking Niacin and has other extraordinarily good effects by increasing the expression of all the SIRTians.
http://www.longecity...es-again/page-1

But dont get me wrong: Swisstemples certainly took the research further.  I wasn't bald enough yet!
And Aspirin. Coffee and Astragalus in my shampoo stopped the recession.

 

 

Niacin would not be a good choice either as it induces a PGD2 flush which is something you don't want.  This was brought up a few times.  Swiss isn't the only one that is having results right now but he is the first pioneer who did a significant amount of research behind this and had the best results.  There are other logs in our forums with other (including myself) with results with PGD2/PGE theory.

 

You have to think of it this way..

 

PGD2 = stop hair loss

PGE2 - provide hair growth

 

So a COX inhibitor (like aspiriin) stops both PGD2 and PGE2.  So even though your hair loss potentially stop or slow down, you are still inhibiting the growth factor (pge2) for proper hair growth.  People have tried cetirizine (zyrtec) including myself and it does stop the shedding somewhat but the hair actually becomes worse quality or unhealthy hair follicle since you are stopping the growth factor too (pge2).

 

I would suggest reading through this as it may answer a lot of your questions  http://ask.fm/swisstemples

Edited by Tubzy, 17 October 2015 - 06:37 PM.

[Logic]

You have to think of it this way..

 

PGD2 = stop hair loss

PGE2 - provide hair growth

 

So a COX inhibitor (like aspiriin) stops both PGD2 and PGE2.  So even though your hair loss potentially stop or slow down, you are still inhibiting the growth factor (pge2) for proper hair growth.  People have tried cetirizine (zyrtec) including myself and it does stop the shedding somewhat but the hair actually becomes worse quality or unhealthy hair follicle since you are stopping the growth factor too (pge2).

 

Let me quote myself  again:

 

"Aspirn will block the production of all Prostaglandins.
ie: PGD2 (also known as CRTH2), PGE2, PGF2α and others.

Now while PGD2 suppresses hair growth, the other do enhance it.
So what you need is a blocker specific to PGD2, while upregulating PGE2 and PGF2α."

 

Now plz STOP correcting me for saying. more than a year ago, exactly what you are saying now.

As for Niacin causing a PGD2 flush:  Wouldn't flushing PGD2 out of cells be exactly what you want..? 

Aspirin does block both PGD2 and PGE2 via COX, but if you want to keep the hair you have, in lieu of  growing new hair, its better than F-all!

 

Edited by Logic, 17 October 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[Logic]

"...skin was able to release PGD2 upon stimulation with nicotinic acid..."

http://www.nature.co...l/5700586a.html

 

"...no increase in the excretion of the major urinary metabolite of PGE2 was found. These results indicate that the major vasodilatory PG released following ingestion of niacin is PGD2..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2475889

 

[ta5]

J Ethnopharmacol. 2015 Oct 6. pii: S0378-8741(15)30167-7.

In silicoprediction of prostaglandin D2 synthase inhibitors from herbal constituents for the treatment of hair loss.

Fong P1, Tong HH2, Ng KH3, Lao CK4, Chong CI5, Chao CM6.

ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:

Many herbal topical formulations have been marketed worldwide to prevent hair loss or promote hair growth. Certain in vivo studies have shown promising results among them; however, the effectiveness of their bioactive constituents remains unknown.

AIM OF THE STUDY:

Recently, prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) inhibition has been discovered as a pharmacological mechanism for treating androgenic alopecia (AGA). This present study was aimed to identify prostaglandin D2 synthase (PTGDS) inhibitors in traditional Chinese medicines (TCMs) for treating AGA.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

In this study, 389 constituents of 12 selected herbs were docked into 5 different crystal structures of PTGDS. The accuracy of the docking methods was successfully validated with experimental data from the ZINC In Man (Zim) database using receiver operating characteristic (ROC) studies. Seven essential drug properties were predicted for topical formulation: skin permeability, sensitisation, irritation, corrosion, mutagenicity, tumorigenicity and reproductive effects.

RESULTS:

Many constituents of the twelve herbs were found to have more advanced binding energies than the experimentally proved PTGDS inhibitors, but many of them were indicative of at least one type of skin adverse reactions, and exhibited poor skin permeability.

CONCLUSIONS:

Overall, ricinoleic acid, acteoside, amentoflavone, quercetin-3-O-rutinoside and hinokiflavone were predicted to be PTGDS inhibitors with good pharmacokinetic properties and minimal adverse skin reactions. These compounds have the highest potential for further in vitro and in vivo investigation with the aim of developing safe and high-efficacy hair loss treatment.

PMID: 26456343

[Tubzy]

 

You have to think of it this way..

 

PGD2 = stop hair loss

PGE2 - provide hair growth

 

So a COX inhibitor (like aspiriin) stops both PGD2 and PGE2.  So even though your hair loss potentially stop or slow down, you are still inhibiting the growth factor (pge2) for proper hair growth.  People have tried cetirizine (zyrtec) including myself and it does stop the shedding somewhat but the hair actually becomes worse quality or unhealthy hair follicle since you are stopping the growth factor too (pge2).

 

Let me quote myself  again:

 

"Aspirn will block the production of all Prostaglandins.
ie: PGD2 (also known as CRTH2), PGE2, PGF2α and others.

Now while PGD2 suppresses hair growth, the other do enhance it.
So what you need is a blocker specific to PGD2, while upregulating PGE2 and PGF2α."

 

Now plz STOP correcting me for saying. more than a year ago, exactly what you are saying now.

As for Niacin causing a PGD2 flush:  Wouldn't flushing PGD2 out of cells be exactly what you want..? 

Aspirin does block both PGD2 and PGE2 via COX, but if you want to keep the hair you have, in lieu of  growing new hair, its better than F-all!

 

 

If you know it's bad then why are u still using aspirin then? That is my point.  And not use something like OC000459 or TM?  They have been available for some time now and the OC-ethanol version dissolves fine into ethanol.  Then you don't have to deal with the COX inhibition.

 

If OC or TM weren't available you could even get your hands on ramatroban.  There are many options right now.

 

As far as niacin, it has been brought up a million times on the hair loss forums for years and no one has had any success with it.  On top of that many people take large doses of niacin daily for cholesterol issues as well as depression/anxiety and are still going bald.

 

Here it's quoted from Swiss:

 

Hello Swiss.Firstly congratulations on the amazing progress and thank you for all the information you have shared..I wanted your thoughts on taking niacin besides the important stuff mentioned in your protocol.There is confusing info about niacin increasing PGD2...Is niacin good or bad for hair?

 

Thank you I'm very happy with it so far.
The so called niacin flush is actually caused by PGD2 that is correct. It also lasts about 30-50 minutes which is exactly the half life of pgd2. So yes niacin is not beneficial. But getting a niacin flush once a day is different from having your scalp permanently expressing pgd2 24/7. I would not use it personally unless you have a good reason for it.

J Ethnopharmacol. 2015 Oct 6. pii: S0378-8741(15)30167-7.

In silicoprediction of prostaglandin D2 synthase inhibitors from herbal constituents for the treatment of hair loss.

Fong P1, Tong HH2, Ng KH3, Lao CK4, Chong CI5, Chao CM6.

ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:

Many herbal topical formulations have been marketed worldwide to prevent hair loss or promote hair growth. Certain in vivo studies have shown promising results among them; however, the effectiveness of their bioactive constituents remains unknown.

AIM OF THE STUDY:

Recently, prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) inhibition has been discovered as a pharmacological mechanism for treating androgenic alopecia (AGA). This present study was aimed to identify prostaglandin D2 synthase (PTGDS) inhibitors in traditional Chinese medicines (TCMs) for treating AGA.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

In this study, 389 constituents of 12 selected herbs were docked into 5 different crystal structures of PTGDS. The accuracy of the docking methods was successfully validated with experimental data from the ZINC In Man (Zim) database using receiver operating characteristic (ROC) studies. Seven essential drug properties were predicted for topical formulation: skin permeability, sensitisation, irritation, corrosion, mutagenicity, tumorigenicity and reproductive effects.

RESULTS:

Many constituents of the twelve herbs were found to have more advanced binding energies than the experimentally proved PTGDS inhibitors, but many of them were indicative of at least one type of skin adverse reactions, and exhibited poor skin permeability.

CONCLUSIONS:

Overall, ricinoleic acid, acteoside, amentoflavone, quercetin-3-O-rutinoside and hinokiflavone were predicted to be PTGDS inhibitors with good pharmacokinetic properties and minimal adverse skin reactions. These compounds have the highest potential for further in vitro and in vivo investigation with the aim of developing safe and high-efficacy hair loss treatment.

PMID: 26456343

 

Thanks for the study.  Ricinoleic acid is the active ingredient in castor oil that provides the PGE benefit.  Amentoflavone I have no tried yet, same with hinokiflavone.  Quercetin many people tried including myslef and seems to be too weak, no one got any results (topically and oral).   

 

Here is a good read that was just posted like 2 weeks ago or so.

 

http://www.hairlossc...ry/setipiprant/

 

Setipiprant is the real deal.

 

 

Setipiprant safety profile

Edited by Tubzy, 17 October 2015 - 11:08 PM.

[Tubzy]

Also, to show you I'm not BSing.

 

[zorba990]

I wonder is reducing PhD2 that much systemically is a good idea for the immune system response though.
http://m.jleukbio.or...t/81/2/372.full
Small excerpt:

CONCLUSION

PGD2 and its various metabolites have a complex role in inflammation. In vivo, the PG has been shown to have potent, pro-inflammatory abilities [3 4 5 6] and yet inhibits inflammation in other settings [10 , 11]. Similarly, in vitro, PGD2 and its metabolites have been shown to activate leukocytes and inhibit their function, as discussed above.
The contrary effects of PGD2 are mirrored in the responses induced by its receptors (Table 1) . CRTH2 activates T lymphocytes, eosinophils, basophils, and monocytes [15 , 16 , 24 , 26] and in keeping with these findings, has been shown to be proinflammatory in vivo [5 , 23 , 33 , 34]. It is surprising, however, that increased eosinophilic inflammation was observed in CRTH2-deficent mice in a model of lung inflammation [32], suggesting that the receptor may have a previously unidentified anti-inflammatory role. The DP receptor, meanwhile, inhibits T lymphocyte, eosinophil, basophil, monocyte, and APC activation [15 , 16 , 24 , 59 , 64], implying an anti-inflammatory role; yet, in a model of antigen-induced airway inflammation, DP-deficient mice show markedly reduced inflammation, airway hyper-reactivity, and inflammatory cytokine production [20].

[Tubzy]

I wonder is reducing PhD2 that much systemically is a good idea for the immune system response though.
http://m.jleukbio.or...t/81/2/372.full
Small excerpt:

CONCLUSION

PGD2 and its various metabolites have a complex role in inflammation. In vivo, the PG has been shown to have potent, pro-inflammatory abilities [3 4 5 6] and yet inhibits inflammation in other settings [10 , 11]. Similarly, in vitro, PGD2 and its metabolites have been shown to activate leukocytes and inhibit their function, as discussed above.
The contrary effects of PGD2 are mirrored in the responses induced by its receptors (Table 1) . CRTH2 activates T lymphocytes, eosinophils, basophils, and monocytes [15 , 16 , 24 , 26] and in keeping with these findings, has been shown to be proinflammatory in vivo [5 , 23 , 33 , 34]. It is surprising, however, that increased eosinophilic inflammation was observed in CRTH2-deficent mice in a model of lung inflammation [32], suggesting that the receptor may have a previously unidentified anti-inflammatory role. The DP receptor, meanwhile, inhibits T lymphocyte, eosinophil, basophil, monocyte, and APC activation [15 , 16 , 24 , 59 , 64], implying an anti-inflammatory role; yet, in a model of antigen-induced airway inflammation, DP-deficient mice show markedly reduced inflammation, airway hyper-reactivity, and inflammatory cytokine production [20].

Nothing was noted in the trial for setipiprant. OC I would be more concerned with as it way stronger. I got side effects from OC but not from setipiprant yet my shedding and itching has dropped significantly.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23379537

[Logic]

If you know it's bad then why are u still using aspirin then? That is my point.  And not use something like OC000459 or TM?  They have been available for some time now and the OC-ethanol version dissolves fine into ethanol.  Then you don't have to deal with the COX inhibition.

 
If OC or TM weren't available you could even get your hands on ramatroban.  There are many options right now.
 
As far as niacin, it has been brought up a million times on the hair loss forums for years and no one has had any success with it.  On top of that many people take large doses of niacin daily for cholesterol issues as well as depression/anxiety and are still going bald.
 
Here it's quoted from Swiss:
 
Hello Swiss.Firstly congratulations on the amazing progress and thank you for all the information you have shared..I wanted your thoughts on taking niacin besides the important stuff mentioned in your protocol.There is confusing info about niacin increasing PGD2...Is niacin good or bad for hair?
 
Thank you I'm very happy with it so far.
The so called niacin flush is actually caused by PGD2 that is correct. It also lasts about 30-50 minutes which is exactly the half life of pgd2. So yes niacin is not beneficial. But getting a niacin flush once a day is different from having your scalp permanently expressing pgd2 24/7. I would not use it personally unless you have a good reason for it.

Aspirin:

Blocks both PGD2, which makes hair fall out, and PGE2, which promotes hair growth right.
Now if you don't want to lose the hair you currently have; then blocking both is better than nothing IMHO...

How many bald Aspirin addicts do you (or anyone else) know? Assuming they started when they had hair.  I ask as a means of 'collecting more data'

 

I continue adding Aspirin to my shampoo as its so easy to get hold of, but will replace it with OC or TM if and when I decide to grow hair back.

Niacin:
You and Swiss have a point, but once again Niacin is removing PGD2, which only stops hair loss but does nothing to promote PGE2 etc. which encourages hair growth...
 

The flushing effect of Niacin wears off with continued use and this is due to there being less PGD2 in the cells to be flushed IIRC?  So I don't believe it should be dismissed just yet.  

It also improves the NAD+ ratio which improves health/youth in general.

Decreasing PGD2 or blocking it to prevent hair loss is obviously just the 1st step.

Increasing PGE2 to promote hair growth is the 2nd step.
 

Again:  Mad props to Swiss and you (and others) for taking the info on PGD2/PGE2 and coming up with a workable treatment for MPB.
You have brought the PGD2/PGE2 info back into the spotlight on this forum with your workable treatment and there is no better place to have that work refined and expanded upon IMHO!  

Please tell Swiss: 'Respect!' and that he would be most welcome here!

[Tubzy]

 

If you know it's bad then why are u still using aspirin then? That is my point.  And not use something like OC000459 or TM?  They have been available for some time now and the OC-ethanol version dissolves fine into ethanol.  Then you don't have to deal with the COX inhibition.

 
If OC or TM weren't available you could even get your hands on ramatroban.  There are many options right now.
 
As far as niacin, it has been brought up a million times on the hair loss forums for years and no one has had any success with it.  On top of that many people take large doses of niacin daily for cholesterol issues as well as depression/anxiety and are still going bald.
 
Here it's quoted from Swiss:
 
Hello Swiss.Firstly congratulations on the amazing progress and thank you for all the information you have shared..I wanted your thoughts on taking niacin besides the important stuff mentioned in your protocol.There is confusing info about niacin increasing PGD2...Is niacin good or bad for hair?
 
Thank you I'm very happy with it so far.
The so called niacin flush is actually caused by PGD2 that is correct. It also lasts about 30-50 minutes which is exactly the half life of pgd2. So yes niacin is not beneficial. But getting a niacin flush once a day is different from having your scalp permanently expressing pgd2 24/7. I would not use it personally unless you have a good reason for it.

Aspirin:

Blocks both PGD2, which makes hair fall out, and PGE2, which promotes hair growth right.
Now if you don't want to lose the hair you currently have; then blocking both is better than nothing IMHO...

How many bald Aspirin addicts do you (or anyone else) know? Assuming they started when they had hair.  I ask as a means of 'collecting more data'

 

I continue adding Aspirin to my shampoo as its so easy to get hold of, but will replace it with OC or TM if and when I decide to grow hair back.

Niacin:
You and Swiss have a point, but once again Niacin is removing PGD2, which only stops hair loss but does nothing to promote PGE2 etc. which encourages hair growth...
 

The flushing effect of Niacin wears off with continued use and this is due to there being less PGD2 in the cells to be flushed IIRC?  So I don't believe it should be dismissed just yet.  

It also improves the NAD+ ratio which improves health/youth in general.

Decreasing PGD2 or blocking it to prevent hair loss is obviously just the 1st step.

Increasing PGE2 to promote hair growth is the 2nd step.
 

Again:  Mad props to Swiss and you (and others) for taking the info on PGD2/PGE2 and coming up with a workable treatment for MPB.
You have brought the PGD2/PGE2 info back into the spotlight on this forum with your workable treatment and there is no better place to have that work refined and expanded upon IMHO!  

Please tell Swiss: 'Respect!' and that he would be most welcome here!

 

 

Right, but aspirin it not really suitable for every day use in the long term and we don't even know the correct dosage for AGA.  I would not want to use aspirin every day either as the FDA reversed their position on it.  They are better options available that is why no one cares/interested in it anymore.

 

 http://articles.merc...de-effects.aspx

 

Also, COX inhibitors can actually be worse for your hair and cause hair loss if it's overused as you are blocking pgd2 and pge2.  It was noted on the german forums when they were testing zyrtec.  Which is why it was a fail.  Too much COX inhibition can cause hair loss, hair loss is even noted as a side effect on the zyrtec bottle.

 

You mentioned that you will add in OC/TM when you want to regrow hair.  I'll repeat myself again that OC and TM do not REGROW hair.  They are simply a PGD2 blocker, PGD2 inhibitor = Stopping hair loss, not regrowth.  To get regrowth you need to focus on PGE2, CD stimulation, progenitor cells etc.  It's not just addressing one or two points you need to address all 4 points.

 

Some other options for CD stimulation:

 

From Dr Cotasarelis findings:

activator => CD34 positive progenitor stem cells
inhibitor => CD200 high(downregulation of immunoactivity)
resultant=>CD49F high Extra cellular Matrix

=> hair growth

Valproic acid, Calicipotriol and Tretinoin tri-axis: 

Valproic acid => CD34(UP) but CD200(DOWN) 
Calcipotriol => CD200(UP) but CD49F(DOWN) 
Tretinoin=> CD49F(UP) but CD34(DOWN) 

 

Niacin, you can try it you want and report back.  I have tried it many times as well as many others.  Niacin pops up all the time on the hair loss forums and no one has had results.  Plus dealing with the daily flushes is annoying.  Most of us don't venture far from the private forum, a few will go to HLT but that is about it.

Edited by Tubzy, 18 October 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[acephale]

Tubzy about castor oil, how do you use it? Topical/oral? Dosage? Any specific brand/type?

[Tubzy]

What's up man, yeah I use it both ways. Orally at 2-3ml. Topically I use it once a day with dmso at 30%. Leave it on for 30-60min then wash off. I use the one an Amazon under the name home health castor oil. You are on PHG right ?

Edited by Tubzy, 18 October 2015 - 09:08 PM.

[The Ripper]

Thank you for linking me to this thread. I'm familiar with most of what was written here, however I have some questions of my own.

1) Has anyone, anywhere, written a guide on making topical PGD2? I'm told it doesn't mix well in Ethanol, and whilst Swiss has posted what he's using it's not exactly well explained. It doesn't cover how much seti to use, how many mL of topical PGD2 it will create, strength, and where to buy it all. If someone can post up such a guide I think would be a big help to all of us interested in using it. Same goes for PGE2.

2) My other question would be regarding PGE2; Has it ever been tested orally? I'm curious as to whether Setipiprant and PGE2 could both be taken this way, despite what's been said about the two competing / cancelling each other out if used at the same time topically.

3) I know people off PHG have a massive dislike for Kane but are there any good reasons to not purchase from him so far as actually getting the stuff at a decent purity is concerned? I really couldn't be bothered waiting months to order off PHG and in the meantime put up with a number of members who frankly come off as being bipolar. I've also noted a Polish group buy going on over at HLT which I'm considering signing up to. Thoughts?

[Huckfinn]

Hi Ripper,

I recently asked privately Tubzy similar things.

I think he wouldn't mind if I post my questions here in order to clarify a more or less "standard procedure".

Here it goes:

 

I read through Swisstemples blog, your Area1255 one and your posts on Logecity and I'm stiil not sure of the detailed procedure to follow.

......

Can you clarify the following:

-For n°1 & 2 you mention SETIPIPRANT:

          How much daily, when to take it, where to buy it?

-For n°3 DERMAROLLING (1.5mm) or (and??) STEMOXYDINE/NEOGENIC:

          Neogenic on Amazon seems only available as "Dercos Neogenic Hair Loss Treatement 28Monodose".

          Stemoxydine as "Kerastase Densifique Hair Density with Stemoxydine 50%".

     ....are these the ones? Any difference between them?

-For n°4..........??

 

What about CASTOR OIL (1/2 tsp daily): is it for n°4?

 

You also say: " I also follow Swiss' ghetto PG regime too.  Which involves castor oil (to promote PGE2), neogenic (CD stimulation) and wounding (growth factors/CD stimulation).  I am waiting for my PGE2 to come in so I can start getting regrowth."

-What exactly is his ghetto regime?

-What is CD stimulation?

-What do you mean by your "PGE2 to come"? What exactly is it?

.......

Many thanks......

 

Edited by Huckfinn, 19 October 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[zorba990]

Limonene seems to have a pro pge2 effect. Which is interesting since it also seems to act as a skin penetration enhancer

http://www.researchg..._gastric_mucosa

http://www.researchg...ation_Promoters

[Tubzy]

Hi Ripper,
I recently asked privately Tubzy similar things.
I think he wouldn't mind if I post my questions here in order to clarify a more or less "standard procedure".
Here it goes:


I read through Swisstemples blog, your Area1255 one and your posts on Logecity and I'm stiil not sure of the detailed procedure to follow.
......
Can you clarify the following:
-For n°1 & 2 you mention SETIPIPRANT:
How much daily, when to take it, where to buy it?
-For n°3 DERMAROLLING (1.5mm) or (and??) STEMOXYDINE/NEOGENIC:
Neogenic on Amazon seems only available as "Dercos Neogenic Hair Loss Treatement 28Monodose".
Stemoxydine as "Kerastase Densifique Hair Density with Stemoxydine 50%".
....are these the ones? Any difference between them?
-For n°4..........??

What about CASTOR OIL (1/2 tsp daily): is it for n°4?

You also say: " I also follow Swiss' ghetto PG regime too. Which involves castor oil (to promote PGE2), neogenic (CD stimulation) and wounding (growth factors/CD stimulation). I am waiting for my PGE2 to come in so I can start getting regrowth."
-What exactly is his ghetto regime?
-What is CD stimulation?
-What do you mean by your "PGE2 to come"? What exactly is it?
.......
Many thanks......

Hey man, it would be easier to just read the page of the blog. As it's each point is described nicely.

http://swisstemples....otocol.html?m=1

[Tubzy]

Thank you for linking me to this thread. I'm familiar with most of what was written here, however I have some questions of my own.

1) Has anyone, anywhere, written a guide on making topical PGD2? I'm told it doesn't mix well in Ethanol, and whilst Swiss has posted what he's using it's not exactly well explained. It doesn't cover how much seti to use, how many mL of topical PGD2 it will create, strength, and where to buy it all. If someone can post up such a guide I think would be a big help to all of us interested in using it. Same goes for PGE2.

2) My other question would be regarding PGE2; Has it ever been tested orally? I'm curious as to whether Setipiprant and PGE2 could both be taken this way, despite what's been said about the two competing / cancelling each other out if used at the same time topically.

3) I know people off PHG have a massive dislike for Kane but are there any good reasons to not purchase from him so far as actually getting the stuff at a decent purity is concerned? I really couldn't be bothered waiting months to order off PHG and in the meantime put up with a number of members who frankly come off as being bipolar. I've also noted a Polish group buy going on over at HLT which I'm considering signing up to. Thoughts?

1) the vehicle for topical setipiprant is slightly tricky. Swiss got it to hold with ethanol, DMI, and polysorbate. PHG also has a special vehicle blend that hold seti as well up to 4%-5%.

2). The stomach acid destroy PGE2. Topical would be the application method. It's easily soluble in ethanol, water etc.

3) Kane is a convicted criminal , but even more importantly he was caught in the past selling faked or severely undosed RU and CB. His batches are inconsistent and uses fillers and heavy metals in his product. I have used Kanes RU and OC in the past and my results and side effects were up and down with each batch. He hires people to market his product.

Edited by Tubzy, 20 October 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[Huckfinn]

 

Hi Ripper,
I recently asked privately Tubzy similar things.
I think he wouldn't mind if I post my questions here in order to clarify a more or less "standard procedure".
Here it goes:


I read through Swisstemples blog, your Area1255 one and your posts on Logecity and I'm stiil not sure of the detailed procedure to follow.
......
Can you clarify the following:
-For n°1 & 2 you mention SETIPIPRANT:
How much daily, when to take it, where to buy it?
-For n°3 DERMAROLLING (1.5mm) or (and??) STEMOXYDINE/NEOGENIC:
Neogenic on Amazon seems only available as "Dercos Neogenic Hair Loss Treatement 28Monodose".
Stemoxydine as "Kerastase Densifique Hair Density with Stemoxydine 50%".
....are these the ones? Any difference between them?
-For n°4..........??

What about CASTOR OIL (1/2 tsp daily): is it for n°4?

You also say: " I also follow Swiss' ghetto PG regime too. Which involves castor oil (to promote PGE2), neogenic (CD stimulation) and wounding (growth factors/CD stimulation). I am waiting for my PGE2 to come in so I can start getting regrowth."
-What exactly is his ghetto regime?
-What is CD stimulation?
-What do you mean by your "PGE2 to come"? What exactly is it?
.......
Many thanks......

Hey man, it would be easier to just read the page of the blog. As it's each point is described nicely.

http://swisstemples....otocol.html?m=1

 

Hi Tubzy,

I went through the blog and the ask.fm answers but can't work out a detailed protocol to follow, only bits and pieces..

.....Any chance you could help?

[The Ripper]

 

Thank you for linking me to this thread. I'm familiar with most of what was written here, however I have some questions of my own.

1) Has anyone, anywhere, written a guide on making topical PGD2? I'm told it doesn't mix well in Ethanol, and whilst Swiss has posted what he's using it's not exactly well explained. It doesn't cover how much seti to use, how many mL of topical PGD2 it will create, strength, and where to buy it all. If someone can post up such a guide I think would be a big help to all of us interested in using it. Same goes for PGE2.

2) My other question would be regarding PGE2; Has it ever been tested orally? I'm curious as to whether Setipiprant and PGE2 could both be taken this way, despite what's been said about the two competing / cancelling each other out if used at the same time topically.

3) I know people off PHG have a massive dislike for Kane but are there any good reasons to not purchase from him so far as actually getting the stuff at a decent purity is concerned? I really couldn't be bothered waiting months to order off PHG and in the meantime put up with a number of members who frankly come off as being bipolar. I've also noted a Polish group buy going on over at HLT which I'm considering signing up to. Thoughts?

1) the vehicle for topical setipiprant is slightly tricky. Swiss got it to hold with ethanol, DMI, and polysorbate. PHG also has a special vehicle blend that hold seti as well up to 4%-5%.

2). The stomach acid destroy PGE2. Topical would be the application method. It's easily soluble in ethanol, water etc.

3) Kane is a convicted criminal , but even more importantly he was caught in the past selling faked or severely undosed RU and CB. His batches are inconsistent and uses fillers and heavy metals in his product. I have used Kanes RU and OC in the past and my results and side effects were up and down with each batch. He hires people to market his product.

 

Thank you for the response.

So what would my options be then in terms of, say, if I want to get my hands on seti and pge2 within a month. Can it be done? Is there any way to buy this "special vehicle" separately?

Finally, what would a rough cost breakdown be to run this protocol for 6 months?

 

 

Thanks once again for posting here and giving us an obviously important update on the Prostaglandin protocol! I guess I'll try and avoid buying from Kane in light of what you've posted. 

 

[Tubzy]

 

 

Hi Ripper,
I recently asked privately Tubzy similar things.
I think he wouldn't mind if I post my questions here in order to clarify a more or less "standard procedure".
Here it goes:


I read through Swisstemples blog, your Area1255 one and your posts on Logecity and I'm stiil not sure of the detailed procedure to follow.
......
Can you clarify the following:
-For n°1 & 2 you mention SETIPIPRANT:
How much daily, when to take it, where to buy it?
-For n°3 DERMAROLLING (1.5mm) or (and??) STEMOXYDINE/NEOGENIC:
Neogenic on Amazon seems only available as "Dercos Neogenic Hair Loss Treatement 28Monodose".
Stemoxydine as "Kerastase Densifique Hair Density with Stemoxydine 50%".
....are these the ones? Any difference between them?
-For n°4..........??

What about CASTOR OIL (1/2 tsp daily): is it for n°4?

You also say: " I also follow Swiss' ghetto PG regime too. Which involves castor oil (to promote PGE2), neogenic (CD stimulation) and wounding (growth factors/CD stimulation). I am waiting for my PGE2 to come in so I can start getting regrowth."
-What exactly is his ghetto regime?
-What is CD stimulation?
-What do you mean by your "PGE2 to come"? What exactly is it?
.......
Many thanks......

Hey man, it would be easier to just read the page of the blog. As it's each point is described nicely.

http://swisstemples....otocol.html?m=1

 

Hi Tubzy,

I went through the blog and the ask.fm answers but can't work out a detailed protocol to follow, only bits and pieces..

.....Any chance you could help?

 

 

Ghetto regime would include:

 

Sulfasalazine (lowers pgd2, raises pge2) dosage: 500mg- 2 grams

Oral castor oil (not the Jamaican kind): 1-3ml a day (stimulates pge)

Topical castor oil mixed with DMSO 30%: once a day (slightly stimulates pge)

Miconazole: Increases pge1 and pge2. Use once daily.

Sunburns: Increases several growth factors including pge2.

Dermaroller or derminator: 1.5mm until you bleed once a week (this would help upregulate CD along with other growth factors)

Stemoxydine (neogenic): every night (upregulate CD34)

 

 

Remember this is the ghetto regime, if you have setipiprant and pge2 you would not need this.  I don't use this personally just the castor oil, neogenic and dermaroller (wounding) part, as I have setipiprant and just waiting on my pge2 to come in.

 

 

Here is a nice excerpt Hellouser wrote up too, if you helps you understand better.

 

 

Nobody is really sure what is the 'cause' of hair loss, there isnt a single factor thats the root of the problem. It's a whole host of things to go wrong. What we do know is that PGD2 is WAY above normal in balding and bald scalps ONLY. Non-balding scalps have low levels of PGD2. Next, We also have reduced levels of PGE2, CD34+ and CD200 progenitor cells. While all this is happening, DHT plays a role too and as we know reducing DHT levels systemically does halt or slow down hair loss but also often times at the expense of getting man boobs, lowered libido or even erectile dysfunction.

The solutions to these factors are;

PGD2 - Block it with Setipiprant or lower it with Sulfasalazine
PGE2 - Upregulate it with Sulfasalazine, Exogenous PGE2, UVB Sunburns or Topical Castor Oil
CD34 - Upregulate with Stemoxydine via hypoxia
CD200 - Lithium Chloride in combination with wounding/dermarolling (LiCl is applied after).

I don't believe reducing DHT is a key factor... all men have more or less the same levels of DHT, balding or not. Of course, tackling it too will improve things.

Note: Sulfasalazine has been shown to reverse scarring associated with liver cirrhosis. Perhaps the anecdotal success some have had, and SwissTemples is having is a contributing factor as there is scarring present in bald scalp.

 

 

Edited by Tubzy, 20 October 2015 - 10:16 PM.

[Tubzy]

 

 

Thank you for linking me to this thread. I'm familiar with most of what was written here, however I have some questions of my own.

1) Has anyone, anywhere, written a guide on making topical PGD2? I'm told it doesn't mix well in Ethanol, and whilst Swiss has posted what he's using it's not exactly well explained. It doesn't cover how much seti to use, how many mL of topical PGD2 it will create, strength, and where to buy it all. If someone can post up such a guide I think would be a big help to all of us interested in using it. Same goes for PGE2.

2) My other question would be regarding PGE2; Has it ever been tested orally? I'm curious as to whether Setipiprant and PGE2 could both be taken this way, despite what's been said about the two competing / cancelling each other out if used at the same time topically.

3) I know people off PHG have a massive dislike for Kane but are there any good reasons to not purchase from him so far as actually getting the stuff at a decent purity is concerned? I really couldn't be bothered waiting months to order off PHG and in the meantime put up with a number of members who frankly come off as being bipolar. I've also noted a Polish group buy going on over at HLT which I'm considering signing up to. Thoughts?

1) the vehicle for topical setipiprant is slightly tricky. Swiss got it to hold with ethanol, DMI, and polysorbate. PHG also has a special vehicle blend that hold seti as well up to 4%-5%.

2). The stomach acid destroy PGE2. Topical would be the application method. It's easily soluble in ethanol, water etc.

3) Kane is a convicted criminal , but even more importantly he was caught in the past selling faked or severely undosed RU and CB. His batches are inconsistent and uses fillers and heavy metals in his product. I have used Kanes RU and OC in the past and my results and side effects were up and down with each batch. He hires people to market his product.

 

Thank you for the response.

So what would my options be then in terms of, say, if I want to get my hands on seti and pge2 within a month. Can it be done? Is there any way to buy this "special vehicle" separately?

Finally, what would a rough cost breakdown be to run this protocol for 6 months?

 

 

Thanks once again for posting here and giving us an obviously important update on the Prostaglandin protocol! I guess I'll try and avoid buying from Kane in light of what you've posted. 

 

 

 

In a month, I would say no as labs take up to 4-8 weeks to even synthesize it (if you can find a legit lab).  At PHG, we run group buys with a a high reputable lab that is runs a full battery of tests for purity.  The price for setipiprant is $340 for 25 grams.  How long it will last you?  Well it depends on how much you use and which route (oral vs topical).  There is no really "set" dose yet.  I'm doing oral only at around 400mg and it has stopped my shedding and itching.  Let me also tell you I'm not taking anything else like fin, RU, CB etc.  I did in the past by AA's and 5AR's have gave me bad sides so I'm done with him.  I also have aggressive MPB so seti is def working for me.  I will switch to topical once my custom vehicle comes in as you can use way less (anywhere from 2%-5% once daily). The custom vehicle is available on a group buy at PHG too, all custom made.  I don't know the ingredients in it, but hellouser was able to dissolve seti in it beautifully along with other members.  If you want to join I could vouch for you.

Edited by Tubzy, 20 October 2015 - 10:22 PM.

[The Ripper]

 

 

 

Thank you for linking me to this thread. I'm familiar with most of what was written here, however I have some questions of my own.

1) Has anyone, anywhere, written a guide on making topical PGD2? I'm told it doesn't mix well in Ethanol, and whilst Swiss has posted what he's using it's not exactly well explained. It doesn't cover how much seti to use, how many mL of topical PGD2 it will create, strength, and where to buy it all. If someone can post up such a guide I think would be a big help to all of us interested in using it. Same goes for PGE2.

2) My other question would be regarding PGE2; Has it ever been tested orally? I'm curious as to whether Setipiprant and PGE2 could both be taken this way, despite what's been said about the two competing / cancelling each other out if used at the same time topically.

3) I know people off PHG have a massive dislike for Kane but are there any good reasons to not purchase from him so far as actually getting the stuff at a decent purity is concerned? I really couldn't be bothered waiting months to order off PHG and in the meantime put up with a number of members who frankly come off as being bipolar. I've also noted a Polish group buy going on over at HLT which I'm considering signing up to. Thoughts?

1) the vehicle for topical setipiprant is slightly tricky. Swiss got it to hold with ethanol, DMI, and polysorbate. PHG also has a special vehicle blend that hold seti as well up to 4%-5%.

2). The stomach acid destroy PGE2. Topical would be the application method. It's easily soluble in ethanol, water etc.

3) Kane is a convicted criminal , but even more importantly he was caught in the past selling faked or severely undosed RU and CB. His batches are inconsistent and uses fillers and heavy metals in his product. I have used Kanes RU and OC in the past and my results and side effects were up and down with each batch. He hires people to market his product.

 

Thank you for the response.

So what would my options be then in terms of, say, if I want to get my hands on seti and pge2 within a month. Can it be done? Is there any way to buy this "special vehicle" separately?

Finally, what would a rough cost breakdown be to run this protocol for 6 months?

 

 

Thanks once again for posting here and giving us an obviously important update on the Prostaglandin protocol! I guess I'll try and avoid buying from Kane in light of what you've posted. 

 

 

 

In a month, I would say no as labs take up to 4-8 weeks to even synthesize it (if you can find a legit lab).  At PHG, we run group buys with a a high reputable lab that is runs a full battery of tests for purity.  The price for setipiprant is $340 for 25 grams.  How long it will last you?  Well it depends on how much you use and which route (oral vs topical).  There is no really "set" dose yet.  I'm doing oral only at around 400mg and it has stopped my shedding and itching.  Let me also tell you I'm not taking anything else like fin, RU, CB etc.  I did in the past by AA's and 5AR's have gave me bad sides so I'm done with him.  I also have aggressive MPB so seti is def working for me.  I will switch to topical once my custom vehicle comes in as you can use way less (anywhere from 2%-5% once daily). The custom vehicle is available on a group buy at PHG too, all custom made.  I don't know the ingredients in it, but hellouser was able to dissolve seti in it beautifully along with other members.  If you want to join I could vouch for you.

 

Just from a slightly more pragmatic point of view what do you think about having a current member of PHG act as a middleman for those of us on Longecity? I think this would open up it up a lot to our members here. Would they allow that? 

I'm sure Longecity members wouldn't have a problem paying in advance or whatever's necessary so nobody gets scammed.

[Tubzy]

 

 

 

 

Thank you for linking me to this thread. I'm familiar with most of what was written here, however I have some questions of my own.

1) Has anyone, anywhere, written a guide on making topical PGD2? I'm told it doesn't mix well in Ethanol, and whilst Swiss has posted what he's using it's not exactly well explained. It doesn't cover how much seti to use, how many mL of topical PGD2 it will create, strength, and where to buy it all. If someone can post up such a guide I think would be a big help to all of us interested in using it. Same goes for PGE2.

2) My other question would be regarding PGE2; Has it ever been tested orally? I'm curious as to whether Setipiprant and PGE2 could both be taken this way, despite what's been said about the two competing / cancelling each other out if used at the same time topically.

3) I know people off PHG have a massive dislike for Kane but are there any good reasons to not purchase from him so far as actually getting the stuff at a decent purity is concerned? I really couldn't be bothered waiting months to order off PHG and in the meantime put up with a number of members who frankly come off as being bipolar. I've also noted a Polish group buy going on over at HLT which I'm considering signing up to. Thoughts?

1) the vehicle for topical setipiprant is slightly tricky. Swiss got it to hold with ethanol, DMI, and polysorbate. PHG also has a special vehicle blend that hold seti as well up to 4%-5%.

2). The stomach acid destroy PGE2. Topical would be the application method. It's easily soluble in ethanol, water etc.

3) Kane is a convicted criminal , but even more importantly he was caught in the past selling faked or severely undosed RU and CB. His batches are inconsistent and uses fillers and heavy metals in his product. I have used Kanes RU and OC in the past and my results and side effects were up and down with each batch. He hires people to market his product.

 

Thank you for the response.

So what would my options be then in terms of, say, if I want to get my hands on seti and pge2 within a month. Can it be done? Is there any way to buy this "special vehicle" separately?

Finally, what would a rough cost breakdown be to run this protocol for 6 months?

 

 

Thanks once again for posting here and giving us an obviously important update on the Prostaglandin protocol! I guess I'll try and avoid buying from Kane in light of what you've posted. 

 

 

 

In a month, I would say no as labs take up to 4-8 weeks to even synthesize it (if you can find a legit lab).  At PHG, we run group buys with a a high reputable lab that is runs a full battery of tests for purity.  The price for setipiprant is $340 for 25 grams.  How long it will last you?  Well it depends on how much you use and which route (oral vs topical).  There is no really "set" dose yet.  I'm doing oral only at around 400mg and it has stopped my shedding and itching.  Let me also tell you I'm not taking anything else like fin, RU, CB etc.  I did in the past by AA's and 5AR's have gave me bad sides so I'm done with him.  I also have aggressive MPB so seti is def working for me.  I will switch to topical once my custom vehicle comes in as you can use way less (anywhere from 2%-5% once daily). The custom vehicle is available on a group buy at PHG too, all custom made.  I don't know the ingredients in it, but hellouser was able to dissolve seti in it beautifully along with other members.  If you want to join I could vouch for you.

 

Just from a slightly more pragmatic point of view what do you think about having a current member of PHG act as a middleman for those of us on Longecity? I think this would open up it up a lot to our members here. Would they allow that? 

I'm sure Longecity members wouldn't have a problem paying in advance or whatever's necessary so nobody gets scammed.

 

 

I don't personally run the GB's, I'm just a mod there.  Admin does everything for the GB and our private forum.  Like I said I could get you in if you wanted to.  Believe me the process for our GB's will not get you scammed, as privacy and legitimacy is the number one concern that is why we operate privately to avoid scammers.

Edited by Tubzy, 21 October 2015 - 03:09 AM.