14 replies to this topic

[Helllllo]

As It stands, I have horrendous mental fatigue. It feels as though my brain has been dipped in novacane. To start off with, my verbal fluency and word recall is abismal to the point where I can't even carry a conversation past a couple of sentances. This includes with my family and friends. I've lost a lot of friends over the course of my 20's because they feel I'm not interested in having them around and they're right to an extent, I actually don't have the mental stamina to talk to them. It's extra-ordinarily daunting. I can't formulate a conversation because my mind is literally blank, I can't dig deep enough to find anything to talk about. I can't explain how fustrating this is. I just tell people I'm really tired the whole day as an excuse to be reclusive. Ontop of social anxiety, I get anxious too. Sometimes it wakes me up during the night but my days are generally riddled with anxiety.

The most fustrating thing of all is that I've become dumb. I can't find words from my vocab bank to express my thoughts and feelings.

I'm usually in a really dark mood, quite sad and dissasociated. I don't feel like I have a strong sense of self. Smiling and laughing is quite difficult and It's impossible for me to relate to anyone. It's almost like I'm experiencing the negative symptoms of schitzophrenia.

Life is literally not worth living and it wouldn't be If i didn't get hangovers.

I could be in a really dark/dumb mood and I'd drink myself silly (two bottles of wine). My mood/symptoms would probably get progressively worse throughout the night but when I'd wake up hungover. Everything would just dissapear and i'd feel like the real old me. I'd be running around trying to talk to as many people as I can. Friends, family and strangers alike. I'd finally feel alive. It's worth noting that this doesn't happen while I'm drunk, but when I'm hungover. All my anxiety would literally be gone, both social and general. My memory bank and word recall would be fucking fantastic and i'd finally feel like a human again. I can smile, the world is awesome and I can fool around and finally be in the world as me. My cognition improves, every positive charactaristic of mine comes out. When I was studying (I can't now because of this), I would be much more attentive and have a lot better focus.

The funny thing is, the more hungover I am, the better I would feel. I could be on two hours sleep and have had a bottle of vodka the day prior, but my mind would be at it's freshest.

A few things worth noting,
drinking doesn't help mood/cognition/verbal fluency during the night of drinking, it makes it worse.
i don't get particularly sick during a hangover, regardless how much alcohol i've consumed
the more hydrated i am, the night before, the less hungover i get, meaning i don't feel as great (I would usually still feel good)
I've tried high doses of baclofen and phenibut to see if it's gaba-b related. Both substances don't make me any more social/improve my intelligence/change much. Phenibut might make me a slight bit more chirpy.
Ontop of those, I've tried all B's, b12 and methyl folate at various doses, ashwagandah, brahmi, nac, alcar, ashwagandah, curcumin, C, D, K, curcumin, fish oil, theanine, tyrosine, magnesium, caffiene as well as others. Nothing has really worked.
Note: As an experiment. I've taken a month and a half off drinking and it was hard. Not because I enjoy drinking but because there's an imbalance that a big hangover levels out.

There's not a lot of information on the internet but there are these threads that might give some insight:
http://www.longecity...ohol-hangovers/ http://www.longecity...as-a-nootropic/ http://www.longecity...t-post-alcohol/

For the love of god, can someone please help me. I'm in a prison, I'm not myself.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

If hangover is simply downregulation of dopamine receptors, you could try taking an anti-dopaminergic antipsychotic in low dosages or try melatonin in high dosages of 3-10mg prior to bed, I assure you that when you wake up you will feel exhausted and slightly depressed - again, probably due to downregulation of dopamine receptors that melatonin causes.

 

Melatonin has the same effect of making me feel "like myself" in the sense of being functional, as does many other things that make me tired. I think we're in the same boat. Though obviously I am not immature enough to be drinking alcohol and par-ty-ing, as I assume you're the type who does (no offense to you).

[Dichotohmy]

How many days in a row can you string together this positive hangover responce? Do you get anything similar from just sleep deprivation? Anything similar from eating certain foods that may upset your gut? Does it depend on what you drink - IE sugary mixed drinks, dry liquor and wine, or beer?

I get something similar, but in my case, its only on withdrawal from protracted drinking. A regular hangover is miserable to me. However, after weeks or more of heavy drinking, I get an afterglow after waking up after my first night sober that lasts for up to a week if I stay sober during that time.

In my case, I suspect its upregulated cortisol from alcohol withdrawal. For you, it could be anything from increased stress hormones or catecholamines, to glutamate, to liver-metabolism related.

[gamesguru]

Do you get anything similar from just sleep deprivation (https://www.google.c...tion euphoria)?

This is a big one.

Also cannabis and alcohol both induce a hypoglutamatergic state, and upregulation on NMDARs (moreso alcohol: cold turkey alcohol = seizures, possible death).  With cannabis withdrawal, idk if I feel normal, definitely speedy, like my mind is overdrive: a computer coming back online and up to speed after a long sleep.  Also inattentive, at times depressed, and dozens more symptoms.

 

But generally a BIG hangover will be counterproductive.  Most of these reports of feeling good after a night of drinking are around 2-4 drinks.

[iseethelight]

You likely have a gaba or serotonin deficiency disorder because alcohol increases both. With gaba it's hard to fix, most gaba precursors have other undesireable side effects for me at least, but theanine taken long enough can help if you can deal with the super mellow mood; also try gaba, even tho it doesn't cross the bbb, it does a number of things in the stomach bc you have gaba receptors in the gut too. For the serotonin, take tryptophan and add b6 for better conversion of tryptophan to 5htp. Also look up Pyroluria and see how  you match the symptoms. Most people who suffer from it do better on alcohol.

Edited by iseethelight, 05 October 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[mekrc]

yes! ill tell you my story thus far. i know how you feel only way for me to somewhat cope with soberness is daily high dose of niacin, tyrosine 500-1000mg, buspar 10mg and occasionally bacopa or low dose 5htp for anxiety. i also take NAC and vitC before drinking to protect the liver. mini meditations, non reactiveness and trying to stay zen is a big key for me. saunas and hot baths are also doing something for my brain. working out is very good but most of the time so boring. i think maybe i will start again tomorrow, i guess its worth it.

no, i will probably run this alcohol race til i die. being drunk is fun alright but the hangover feeling makes me live, everything gets so clean in my head, my eyes open up and i can work, its a shame really. i wish there was something else. once tired SSRI but it made me feel kinda manic, i would talk to people on the street with nothing holding me back what so ever. also remeber i would laugh if people got hurt, no empathy? so weird... tried Wellbutrin and felt like i was on coke or something, very inflated ego feeling, stone cold, no humor, but got things done with no emotion. Modafinil is sharp, i like it but get headaches and cant sleep for 24h even on 50mg and dont like to mix it with alcohol. would love to try LDN and Deprenyl, heard it might work but dont know how to get my hands on it in europe. theres no way a doctor will give it to me.

if i quit drinking i feel like shit and all weak for two weeks and have crazy angry thoughts. every word anyone says to me feels like an attack. at day 15 im back to lazy, normal, kinda happy me again but work is too difficult. then it takes one beer to get me back to a nice place and then another 14 days again to be normal, 1 BEER! for 2 weeks of hell, cant believe it. its hell, i have to keep the drinking up once ive started.

used to drink only on the weekends and feel somewhat good on saturday/sundays but was somehow afraid of the feeling and thought i was hungover in a bad way. now i just roll with it cause i know its 100x better than sober. these days when people talk about hangovers i dont even know what hungover even means. funny, also heard the french (they drink alot) dont have a word for "hangover" the movie there is called "a really bad trip" lol.

then i stayed sober for a almost a year when i started collage and it was ok but school work was such an effort. just went through the actions with constant pain in my brain following a schedule. my mind was in a way clearer than now but just sitting down doing work hurt. i dont know, the difference cant be explained. i guess there is a feeling of ignorance to drinking but as they say ignorance is bliss.

weed is also a great way to escape. wont get much work done but wont have to worry about anything! its like pressing on pause. but get mad paranoia when im high with delusional thoughts that i believe has some truth to them. its real interesting to watch and listen to my thoughts but cant be around people. if i would read this post high id think oh man who is this person "mini meditations" and be all judgmental, but like i said theres truth to it too... if you watch Jack Black on the youtube show "getting doug with high" you will know what i mean.
weed is also too addictive, cant keep it on a good level as i now do with red wine.

coffee gets me motivated and more productive but i sweat and face flush alot from it so dont use that anymore. dont mind flushing but other people make weird undirect comments and think they got an advatage over me even in professional situations its sad and says more about them than me... without the coffee i rarely flush.

sober is like you say the negative symptoms of schizophrenia and maybe i have some kind of mild version of it since niacin really helps. will never go to the doctor and explain this and dont think i want to try the schizo-meds. i love all my feelings even the crazy mad ones, just want to be able to do good work and not feel weak.

i also dont think alot of people understand the impact alcohol has had on our culture. people used to be drunk 24/7 from early childhood, they drank it like water for hundreds of years, its fact. this world we live in today was literally built on alcohol. just need to keep up the charade, clean clothes and good hygiene and act somewhat "normal", dont step on peoples toes, know what to expect and give love and everyone will be like; what is going on here!! and if they cant handle it its their problem. i guess "jealous haters" is the word for those people. you see so many people struggeling trying to get as much as they can being real assholes but i tell you this is where its all at, atleast for me at this moment.

i seldom drink much more than a bottle of red wine unless theres something to celebrate maybe like 4 times a year. and never less than one glass 20cl with dinner. atleast one day off a week. and some weeks when i got a low work load i can go a few days without just to enjoy the first glass more. its like saving up money and spending it! i plan to be sober through januari just for the hell of it. been doing this for 2 years now. feeling all good everyday!! wished i started sooner im in my late 20s.

i could go on and on, alcohol truly is amazing.

im very grateful if anyone knows the reason and if there are any alternatives i could try.
thank you and good luck to all of you!

god bless!!!!

[Daniel Cooper]

You taking any prescription or recreational drugs?  Particularly anything gabaergic (benzos, z-drugs, etc.)?

 

 

 

[turchin]

1. I am always amused how people who claim to be brain dead are able to write such high quality texts as OP. As English is foreign for me and I was lazy at school, I envy their ability to write.

2. Probably it is all about upregulation of NMDA. I am now on 2.5 mg memantine ones in two days and it helped me to get rid of my years long depression. Alcohol, memantine and ketamine upregulate NMDA after short-time antagonist action on them.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

1. I am always amused how people who claim to be brain dead are able to write such high quality texts as OP. As English is foreign for me and I was lazy at school, I envy their ability to write.

2. Probably it is all about upregulation of NMDA. I am now on 2.5 mg memantine ones in two days and it helped me to get rid of my years long depression. Alcohol, memantine and ketamine upregulate NMDA after short-time antagonist action on them.

 

Pregnenolone has been suggested as a possible treatment for schizophrenia due to its activity on the NMDA receptor (agonism).

That sounds like a much more logical approach than attempting to agonize the receptor via antagonism, especially given that things like ketamine are illegal to own (to my knowledge) for personal use, and pregnenolone is not unless you're in the US (but you're not going to end in legal troubles even if you import a little amount of preg. to the US since it's such a weak drug with lots of therapeutic potential).

[turchin]

I tried pregnenlone, but memantine gives better results. Memantine is legal everywhere. But memantine helped me more from depression, than as nootropic. 

I think that alcohol also works as GABA downregulator, which result in higher level of excitation during abstinence period.

[gamesguru]

Still can't explain why a BIG hangover would, but a slight one, I found possible explanation to (basically upregulating BDNF, thus upregulating D3, which itself is rewarding):

http://www.healthlin...coholics-102414

When people drink moderately, the body boosts the supply of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF. BDNF allows the brain to change over time. It has also been recognized as a player in drug and alcohol addiction.

 

The Dopamine D3 Receptor Is Part of a Homeostatic Pathway Regulating Ethanol Consumption

BDNF has been shown to induce the expression of the dopamine D₃ receptor (D₃R), neuropeptide Y, preprodynorphin, cholecystokinin, and substance P in the striatum (Croll et al., 1994; Guillin et al., 2001), and our previous findings revealed that ethanol self-administration increases BDNF expression in the dorsal, but not ventral, striatum (McGough et al., 2004). Interestingly, an increase in the expression and/or function of some of these gene products attenuates the effects of addictive drugs such as amphetamine, cocaine, and ethanol, whereas decreases in their expression potentiate sensitivity to the drugs (Xu et al., 1997; Carlezon et al., 1998; Thiele et al., 1998; Pilla et al., 1999). We therefore postulated that upregulation of one or more of these genes via the BDNF pathway contributes to the regulation of ethanol consumption. In this study, we focused on the possible interaction between ethanol and the D₃R.

 

[searching4health]

I am in the same boat as the OP.  Every time I have told the doctors that I have seen, they cant make sense of it.  I have tried just about every adhd med and noot with no real help.  I have been on 20mg Aricept, which did give me great clarity where I felt my mind was just in synch.  One thing that I do notice is after drinking  heavy the next night, I get Restless leg really bad.  I think that its a Glutamate issue in which case I might try Riluzole.  Does anyone else get RLS the following night?

[vader]

alcoholism

[mekrc]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Every time I have told the doctors that I have seen, they cant make sense of it. I have tried just about every adhd med and noot with no real help. I have been on 20mg Aricept, which did give me great clarity where I felt my mind was just in synch. One thing that I do notice is after drinking heavy the next night, I get Restless leg really bad. I think that its a Glutamate issue in which case I might try Riluzole. Does anyone else get RLS the following night?

I get that, also have a hard time to stop humming sometimes. Nowadays I just sit still and don't make noises because I know it's not giving me anything. There's also a good feeling to not be doing it but i suspect it can look odd to some people and can make them uncomfortable. In REALITY I'm just a person sitting, minding my business, even though my body would rather want to be moving constantly. You could watch this clip http://youtu.be/TbKdlM2GhqE of Martin Scorsese, notice how he sits, some people can't really sense it and have no idea of what I'm talking about. I think it also fits an older man better, I dunno.

alcoholism

"Fools give you reasons, wise men never try."

[MetaphasicSystems]

Bromantine throughout the day, creatine, and magnesium glycinate before bed.