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Nicotinamide Riboside [Curated]

nicotinamide riboside nicotinamide nad boosting charles brenner david sinclair leonard guarente niagen niacinamide nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#421 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 05:31 PM

Nicotinamide Riboside reverses fatty liver disease in mice

 

http://www.timelessl...isease-in-mice/

 

NAD+ boosting by feeding animals with a diet enriched in nicotinamide riboside may prevent or reverse NAFLD by inducing the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) which in turn triggers a mitohormetic response.

 

It confirms what someone already posted about it:

 

http://www.limna.ch/...ating_teams/134

"...We recently demonstrated that the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) contributes to the control of mitochondrial function and health- and lifespan in the mouse. Interference with mitochondrial translation, either through genetic (mutations of the mitochondrial ribosomal proteins) or pharmacological strategies (e.g. doxycycline), reduces the production of mtDNA encoded ETC components, resulting into a mito-nuclear imbalance between mtDNA and nDNA encoded OXPHOS proteins, which subsequently activates UPRmt. UPRmt will then induce a reparative response that restores mitochondrial function, which in the worm is also linked with the extension of lifespan. Interestingly, compounds that activate mitochondrial biogenesis, such as rapamycin and resveratrol, as well as NAD+ precursors and PARP inhibitors, also induced UPRmt with beneficial effects on mitochondrial function and organismal health. Targeting the UPRmt may hence improve mitochondrial dysfunction and favorably impact on healthspan..."

 

still a point is to fix the senessent cells which are direct generator for inflammations. We should have a way to fix this part too safely


Edited by Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi), 28 April 2016 - 05:32 PM.


#422 midas

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 07:06 PM

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

 

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

 

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"


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#423 stefan_001

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:40 PM

 

Nicotinamide Riboside reverses fatty liver disease in mice

 

http://www.timelessl...isease-in-mice/

 

NAD+ boosting by feeding animals with a diet enriched in nicotinamide riboside may prevent or reverse NAFLD by inducing the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) which in turn triggers a mitohormetic response.

 

It confirms what someone already posted about it:

 

http://www.limna.ch/...ating_teams/134

"...We recently demonstrated that the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) contributes to the control of mitochondrial function and health- and lifespan in the mouse. Interference with mitochondrial translation, either through genetic (mutations of the mitochondrial ribosomal proteins) or pharmacological strategies (e.g. doxycycline), reduces the production of mtDNA encoded ETC components, resulting into a mito-nuclear imbalance between mtDNA and nDNA encoded OXPHOS proteins, which subsequently activates UPRmt. UPRmt will then induce a reparative response that restores mitochondrial function, which in the worm is also linked with the extension of lifespan. Interestingly, compounds that activate mitochondrial biogenesis, such as rapamycin and resveratrol, as well as NAD+ precursors and PARP inhibitors, also induced UPRmt with beneficial effects on mitochondrial function and organismal health. Targeting the UPRmt may hence improve mitochondrial dysfunction and favorably impact on healthspan..."

 

still a point is to fix the senessent cells which are direct generator for inflammations. We should have a way to fix this part too safely

 

 

Independent sources, same results - just speculating here but it seems this may be an old mechanism so likely working the same way in humans. 

 

I am not so convinced about the senessent cells theory, at what age does that really start to be a problem?

 



#424 stefan_001

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:51 PM

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

 

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

 

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"

 

provocative headline, so NR seems to get then in every cell type.


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#425 Bryan_S

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 03:45 PM

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

 

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

 

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"

 

Nice find, tip of the hat to midas

 

Vitamin stops the aging process of organs

Nicotinamide riboside rejuvenates stem cells, allowing better regeneration processes in aged mice
Date: April 28, 2016
 
Source: Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne
 
Summary: By administering nicotinamide riboside to elderly mice, researchers restored their organs' ability to regenerate and prolonged their lives. This method has potential for treating a number of degenerative diseases.
 
160428152124_1_540x360.jpg
As mice, like all mammals, age, the regenerative capacity of certain organs (such as the liver and kidneys) and muscles (including the heart) diminishes. The effects of Nicotinamide riboside (NR) can only be described as restorative. (stock image)
Credit: © jonnysek / Fotolia
 
Original publication:
 
NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances life span in mice http://science.scien...science.aaf2693
Hongbo Zhang1, Dongryeol Ryu1, Yibo Wu2, Karim Gariani1, Xu Wang1, Peiling Luan1, Davide D’Amico1, Eduardo R. Ropelle1,3, Matthias P. Lutolf4, Ruedi Aebersold2,5, Kristina Schoonjans6, Keir J. Menzies1,7,*, Johan Auwerx1,*
+ Author Affiliations
↵*Corresponding author. Email: kmenzies@uottawa.ca (K.J.M.); admin.auwerx@epfl.ch (J.A.)
Science  28 Apr 2016:
 
DOI: 10.1126/science.aaf2693
 
Abstract
 
Adult stem cells (SCs) are essential for tissue maintenance and regeneration yet are susceptible to senescence during aging. We demonstrate the importance of the amount of the oxidized form of cellular nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) and its impact on mitochondrial activity as a pivotal switch to modulate muscle SC (MuSC) senescence. Treatment with the NAD+ precursor nicotinamide riboside (NR) induced the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) and synthesis of prohibitin proteins, and this rejuvenated MuSCs in aged mice. NR also prevented MuSC senescence in the Mdx mouse model of muscular dystrophy. We furthermore demonstrate that NR delays senescence of neural SCs (NSCs) and melanocyte SCs (McSCs), and increased mouse lifespan. Strategies that conserve cellular NAD+ may reprogram dysfunctional SCs and improve lifespan in mammals.

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#426 Bryan_S

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:59 AM

 

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

 

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

 

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"

 

provocative headline, so NR seems to get then in every cell type.

 

 

Provocative yes, the lack of enthusiasm is deafening. Sometimes I feel like a cheerleader but honestly nothing I say could come close to enhancing the implications of this study because unless this study was faked, the results speak for themselves.

 

I work in a news station and a few of us kicked this study around tonight and the only downside verbalized was it hasn't been replicated in humans yet. So this study again elevates the potential of NAD boosting as so many animal studies have in the past, but we need human data indicating exactly the same!

 

If I were a street mouse I would be scouring every city street storm gutter collecting all the pennies needed to buy some (NR) for sure.

 

"This work could have very important implications in the field of regenerative medicine," said Auwerx. "We are not talking about introducing foreign substances into the body but rather restoring the body's ability to repair itself with a product that can be taken with food." This work on the aging process also has potential for treating diseases that can affect - and be fatal - in young people, like muscular dystrophy (myopathy).

So far, no negative side effects have been observed following the use of NR, even at high doses. But caution remains the byword when it comes to this elixir of youth: it appears to boost the functioning of all cells, which could include pathological ones. Further in-depth studies are required." https://www.scienced...60428152124.htm

 

Its funny how these articles also give us just a hint of pause because with the good we may enhance and enable the bad. But aren't we also enhancing our natural discriminatory defenses to eliminate and exorcise the bad?


Edited by Bryan_S, 30 April 2016 - 05:12 AM.

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#427 stefan_001

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 05:40 AM

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"

provocative headline, so NR seems to get then in every cell type.
Provocative yes, the lack of enthusiasm is deafening. Sometimes I feel like a cheerleader but honestly nothing I say could come close to enhancing the implications of this study because unless this study was faked, the results speak for themselves.

I work in a news station and a few of us kicked this study around tonight and the only downside verbalized was it hasn't been replicated in humans yet. So this study again elevates the potential of NAD boosting as so many animal studies have in the past, but we need human data indicating exactly the same!

If I were a street mouse I would be scouring every city street storm gutter collecting all the pennies needed to buy some (NR) for sure.

"This work could have very important implications in the field of regenerative medicine," said Auwerx. "We are not talking about introducing foreign substances into the body but rather restoring the body's ability to repair itself with a product that can be taken with food." This work on the aging process also has potential for treating diseases that can affect - and be fatal - in young people, like muscular dystrophy (myopathy).
So far, no negative side effects have been observed following the use of NR, even at high doses. But caution remains the byword when it comes to this elixir of youth: it appears to boost the functioning of all cells, which could include pathological ones. Further in-depth studies are required." https://www.scienced...60428152124.htm

Its funny how these articles also give us just a hint of pause because with the good we may enhance and enable the bad. But aren't we also enhancing our natural discriminatory defenses to eliminate and exorcise the bad?
Highly doubtful it was faked as the institute has prestige. But yes it is increasingly clear that NR gets in every cell type. We also know that some cancer therapies target to inhibit sirtuins, the enzymes that very much benefit from NAD+ boosting so I think it's only correct he makes that caution. Whether we should worry is another story. The way I see this is that cancerous cells may not necessarily benefit from increased amount of sirtuins but because they have in some cases a higher sensitivity to sirtuins they may go over the edge faster than healthy cells when deprived. An interesting study would be to have two cohorts of aging mice with the cancers known to be sensitive to sirtuins. In one cohort you boost NAD+ with NR and in the other you deprive the NAD+. Then we can see whether revitalizing the bodies own abilities is a better way to combat the cancer versus the "survival" of the fittest approach by depriving the body of NAD+. In any case taking NR with a natural cancer fighter like honokiol seems to me a smart thing to do.

Edited by stefan_001, 30 April 2016 - 05:51 AM.

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#428 albedo

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 09:02 AM

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

 

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

 

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"

 

I knew I had to follow the group of Auwerx .... ;-) and why I posted the info HERE on the upcoming Keystone Symposium where one of the authors, Hongbo Zhang, will be presenting next to other top notch researchers in the field. Great find.
 


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#429 Bryan_S

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:05 PM

Highly doubtful it was faked as the institute has prestige. But yes it is increasingly clear that NR gets in every cell type. We also know that some cancer therapies target to inhibit sirtuins, the enzymes that very much benefit from NAD+ boosting so I think it's only correct he makes that caution. Whether we should worry is another story. The way I see this is that cancerous cells may not necessarily benefit from increased amount of sirtuins but because they have in some cases a higher sensitivity to sirtuins they may go over the edge faster than healthy cells when deprived. An interesting study would be to have two cohorts of aging mice with the cancers known to be sensitive to sirtuins. In one cohort you boost NAD+ with NR and in the other you deprive the NAD+. Then we can see whether revitalizing the bodies own abilities is a better way to combat the cancer versus the "survival" of the fittest approach by depriving the body of NAD+. In any case taking NR with a natural cancer fighter like honokiol seems to me a smart thing to do.

 

 

There were the Nicotinamide Riboside HCC (Hepatocellular carcinoma) tests. They used a mouse model for human hepatic cancer and the results were nothing short of astounding.



#430 Bryan_S

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 03:03 PM

Chronic alcohol binging injures the liver and other organs by reducing NAD(+) levels required for sirtuin's deacetylase activity.

 

 

http://www.sciencedi...014480016300107

 

I know as a group we've covered this topic on NAD+ boosting and drinking alcohol before. We also covered it in the Current News and Updates thread when we posted news about "Nicotinamide: A Way to Prevent Fetal Alcohol Syndrome" Also See "Vitamin B3 Variant Reverses Effects of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome in MiceNow its in the news again reaffirming our previous notions that NAD boosting may in fact help save off some of the Deleterious Effects of Alcohol.

 

Now this is not an encouragement to mix alcohol and Nicotinamide Riboside or a way to cheat organ injury with supplementation. It is however interesting that this notion may have some basis in fact. The new publication also suggests drinking can interfere with our Circadian clock which is bound to our NAD availability. This ties into our cyclic epigenetic changes needing acetylation and deacetylation, meaning sleeping it off doesn't mean you will wake up feeling all rested and refreshed. With that said guys drinking in moderation is key and we should all be aware alcohol destroys our NAD levels.

 

Previous Post http://www.longecity...-10#entry739782

main.jpg

 

Interesting if not somewhat unexpected results. I'm sure there are a few of us who take a drink or 2 from time to time. Some of you may remember a study on nicotinamide and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome "Nicotinamide: A Way to Prevent Fetal Alcohol Syndrome" Also See "Vitamin B3 Variant Reverses Effects of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome in Mice" From these studies we can see niacinamide aka nicotinamide can help save of cell loss by raising NAD levels but it still isn't advisable to drink while pregnant.

 

OK so we know alcohol isn't good for the fetus. But we as adults can deal with a drink or 2, right? We also have some powerful antioxidants at our disposal that can fight any damage, well "yes and no." Here is a study looking at Lycopene which is one of the most powerful phytochemical antioxidants. In this study they got marginal protective effects from alcohol in a very narrow dose range. I wouldn't call this study a success where I felt I could binge and save off the deleterious effects but the data and insights are well worth a read.

http://www.hindawi.c...cl/2015/741612/

 

5. Conclusions

"In summary, results from this study indicate that acute ethanol exposure, at physiologically relevant concentrations, increases oxidative damage in U251 cells, resulting in upregulation of PARP activity and consequently a significant decrease in intracellular levels of its substrate NAD(H), a molecule critical for cellular health. A novel dose dependent relationship between ethanol exposure and reduced concentrations of the protective NAD+ dependent enzyme SIRT1 was also observed. Further investigation is required to determine if this effect was solely the consequence of reduced NAD+ availability. While data from this study suggests that exposure of the brain to alcohol at commonly observed blood concentrations may cause at least transitory oxidative damage, the novel finding that lycopene can prevent the ethanol induced reduction of astrocyte NAD(H) stores suggests that this naturally occurring carotenoid, if present in the brain at around 1 μM, may at least partly ameliorate ethanol mediated brain toxicity. Further research using mixed culture and murine models is required to confirm this hypothesis."


Edited by Bryan_S, 09 August 2015 - 12:15 PM.


Edited by Bryan_S, 02 May 2016 - 03:04 PM.

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#431 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 09:50 PM

 

 

Nicotinamide Riboside reverses fatty liver disease in mice

 

http://www.timelessl...isease-in-mice/

 

NAD+ boosting by feeding animals with a diet enriched in nicotinamide riboside may prevent or reverse NAFLD by inducing the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) which in turn triggers a mitohormetic response.

 

It confirms what someone already posted about it:

 

http://www.limna.ch/...ating_teams/134

"...We recently demonstrated that the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) contributes to the control of mitochondrial function and health- and lifespan in the mouse. Interference with mitochondrial translation, either through genetic (mutations of the mitochondrial ribosomal proteins) or pharmacological strategies (e.g. doxycycline), reduces the production of mtDNA encoded ETC components, resulting into a mito-nuclear imbalance between mtDNA and nDNA encoded OXPHOS proteins, which subsequently activates UPRmt. UPRmt will then induce a reparative response that restores mitochondrial function, which in the worm is also linked with the extension of lifespan. Interestingly, compounds that activate mitochondrial biogenesis, such as rapamycin and resveratrol, as well as NAD+ precursors and PARP inhibitors, also induced UPRmt with beneficial effects on mitochondrial function and organismal health. Targeting the UPRmt may hence improve mitochondrial dysfunction and favorably impact on healthspan..."

 

still a point is to fix the senessent cells which are direct generator for inflammations. We should have a way to fix this part too safely

 

 

Independent sources, same results - just speculating here but it seems this may be an old mechanism so likely working the same way in humans. 

 

I am not so convinced about the senessent cells theory, at what age does that really start to be a problem?

 

 

You not convinced ? The this should: http://www.brown.edu...-06/05-071.html

 

it was in monkey but age represent from 15 to 90yo in human if we translate it to human. At 15yo if we age same way as monkey (likely) means we already have around 4% of senessent cells to reach 20% at 90yo.

 

So yes, we really need to not only decrease the rate we get them but also wash the body from them as suggested by senotilics approach. Wash them is not enough to make you live longer, but healthier yes. We have to also play on stem cells. Means we get back to the topic I "opened" here and on honokiol page: TNFa.

 



#432 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 10:25 PM

 

http://medicalxpress...amin-aging.html

 

"This is why the researchers wanted to "revitalize" stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. "We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them," said the researcher. "This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn't get it."

 

"This paper will be published online by the journal Science on Thursday, 28 April, 2016. It is titled: "NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances lifespan in mice"

 

Nice find, tip of the hat to midas

 

Vitamin stops the aging process of organs

Nicotinamide riboside rejuvenates stem cells, allowing better regeneration processes in aged mice
Date: April 28, 2016
 
Source: Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne
 
Summary: By administering nicotinamide riboside to elderly mice, researchers restored their organs' ability to regenerate and prolonged their lives. This method has potential for treating a number of degenerative diseases.
 
160428152124_1_540x360.jpg
As mice, like all mammals, age, the regenerative capacity of certain organs (such as the liver and kidneys) and muscles (including the heart) diminishes. The effects of Nicotinamide riboside (NR) can only be described as restorative. (stock image)
Credit: © jonnysek / Fotolia
 
Original publication:
 
NAD+ repletion improves mitochondrial and stem cell function and enhances life span in mice http://science.scien...science.aaf2693
Hongbo Zhang1, Dongryeol Ryu1, Yibo Wu2, Karim Gariani1, Xu Wang1, Peiling Luan1, Davide D’Amico1, Eduardo R. Ropelle1,3, Matthias P. Lutolf4, Ruedi Aebersold2,5, Kristina Schoonjans6, Keir J. Menzies1,7,*, Johan Auwerx1,*
+ Author Affiliations
↵*Corresponding author. Email: kmenzies@uottawa.ca (K.J.M.); admin.auwerx@epfl.ch (J.A.)
Science  28 Apr 2016:
 
DOI: 10.1126/science.aaf2693
 
Abstract
 
Adult stem cells (SCs) are essential for tissue maintenance and regeneration yet are susceptible to senescence during aging. We demonstrate the importance of the amount of the oxidized form of cellular nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) and its impact on mitochondrial activity as a pivotal switch to modulate muscle SC (MuSC) senescence. Treatment with the NAD+ precursor nicotinamide riboside (NR) induced the mitochondrial unfolded protein response (UPRmt) and synthesis of prohibitin proteins, and this rejuvenated MuSCs in aged mice. NR also prevented MuSC senescence in the Mdx mouse model of muscular dystrophy. We furthermore demonstrate that NR delays senescence of neural SCs (NSCs) and melanocyte SCs (McSCs), and increased mouse lifespan. Strategies that conserve cellular NAD+ may reprogram dysfunctional SCs and improve lifespan in mammals.

 

 

This is interesting because it is the first time i see finally a study on lifespan in mice using NR !

 

Here are the result I calcuted using their info if we focus only on the lifespan (our ultimate final result, more than all the biochemistry info we all speculate here)

 

The mice started very late the NR supplementation: at 2yo > 700 days = more than 2/3 their total lifespan. for human it could represent a 70yo about

 

  • The average lifespan NR increased by 4,7% versus control
  • The maximum lifespan NR increased by 5,2% versus control

 

My conclusion: So bad they didnt made a group on CR. The results are mitigate but still NR helped. Starting NR that late and still get a 5% lifespan increase is not bad. However, it reinforces even more the need in my opinion to also (I really mean in more that all NR already does)

 

  • control the NAD+/NADH ratio for instance that gave better results (and versus CR): http://www.beta-lapa...f-healthy-life/
  • control senolitics : carnosine, telomerase activator
  • control inflammation, especially TNFa (honokiol, willow bark..)
  • boost sirtuins activity (useful only if enough NAD+ pool) : pterostilbene, honokiol
  • mitochondria fusion / mitophagy

 


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#433 midas

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 11:49 AM

http://www.fasebj.or...ent/lb372.short

 

Abstract

The objective of this study was to explore the potential role of nicotinamide riboside (NR) on Sirt1/3. The NAD+ precursor NR is a third vitamin B3. Recent studies have suggested that NR shown protective effects for hearing loss, high-fat induced obesity, and Alzheimer’s disease. Mouse hepatocytes were treated with NR (10 μM and 10 mM) for 24 hours. RNA interference (RNAi)-mediated gene silencing was performed for Sirt1 and Sirt3 knockdown, and then NR was administered. Inflammatory markers and Sirt pathway were analyzed. AML12 cell viability which was reduced by PA was increased by low concentrations of NR treatment. Sirt1 was significantly up-regulated by NR. The NR treatment led to the up-regulation of insulin-sensitizing molecule adiponectin. The levels of CPT-1 in NR-treated cells were three times higher than those of CON. Hepatic pro-inflammatory markers including TNF-alpha and IL-6 were decreased in NR-treated cells. In addition, caspase 1, a component of NOD-like receptor family, pyrin domain containing 3 inflammasome, was decreased by NR. Sirt1 knockdown triggered hepatic metaflammation. Sirt1 was necessary to show protective effects for inflammation in AML12 NR-treated cells. Sirt3 knockdown resulted in decreased levels of Sirt1 and Sirt6. NR treatment altered toll-like receptor 4-NF-κB, which was independent of Sirt3. NR decreased level of fatty acid synthase, and these effects were observed in Sirt3 knockdown group. These data demonstrated that NR enhances cell viability, and affects TLR4-NF-κB pathway via sirtuin-dependent and -independent ways in hepatocytes.

 


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#434 Bryan_S

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 03:50 AM

Emerging therapies for mitochondrial disorders

Helen Nightingale, Gerald Pfeffer, David Bargiela, Rita Horvath, Patrick F. Chinnery
DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/brain/aww081 aww081 First published online: 3 May 2016
 
Highlights
 
Schematic representation of pharmaceutical modulators of mitochondrial biogenesis. There are multiple signalling pathways involved in mitochondrial biogenesis. PGC-1α (encoded by PPARGC1A), which is a co-activator for a family of transcriptional factors known as PPARs, co-ordinates via a cascade of nuclear encoded proteins the vast majority transcriptional mitochondrial biogenesis. Novel pharmacological therapies aim to modulate PCG-1α mtDNA expression (e.g. PPARα) and protein expression or target downstream pathways. Bezafibrate is pharmacological ligand for the transcriptional co-factor PGC-1α. AICAR activates AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) and is thought to modulate increased mitochondrial biogenesis through PGC-1α. The natural polyphenol resveratrol activates sirtuin 1 (SIRT1). Sirtuins are part of a group of oxidizing NAD-dependent protein deacetylases. Upon activation, for example, by PGC-1α or transcription factor A, mitochondrial (TFAM) they promote mitochondrial respiratory chain activities and the transcription of genes modulating mitochondrial biogenesis and function. Nicotinamide riboside can be used to supplement NAD+ levels. PARP1 functions as a NAD+ consuming enzyme. Thus in turn inhibition of PARP1 has been demonstrated to increase NAD+ bioavailability and SIRT1 activity (not shown above) promoting oxidative phosphorylation. Rapamycin inhibits mTOR, which in turn releases mTOR inhibition of autophagy. Cyclosporin A inhibits the mitochondrial permeability transition pore (MPTP). Opening of the mitochondrial permeability transition pore is thought to deplete pyridine nucleotides thus impairing mitochondrial oxidative respiration.
 
Modulating NAD+ bioavailability
The balance between NAD+ and NADH is crucial to the process of oxidative phosphorylation. With increased NAD+ bioavailability enhancing oxidative phosphorylation. Indeed NAD+ supplementation with nicotinamide riboside has produced promising biochemical and clinical improvements in two mitochondrial myopathy murine models; a nuclear gene (Sco2) knockout/knockin mouse (Cerutti et al., 2014), and the Deletor mouse possessing a nuclear gene mutation resulting in mtDNA deletions (Khan et al., 2014).
 


#435 Kirito

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 08:01 PM

From a commenter on Mario Konovalenko's Facebook post:

https://www.facebook...valenko?fref=nf

 

"Hi all:
1) They do have a methods section; it's in their supplementary material. Paywalled as everything here, but just copy and paste the DOI into sci-hub.bz (I'm not sure about how to get the supplementary material though)


2) In the Zhang study, the mouse were fed with either normal chow diet or with NR 400 mg/kg/day. Assuming the same oral dose per kg is needed in humans, this is about (400 mg/kg)*(70 kg for a 155 pound male) ~ 28,000 mg NR per day. This is obviously *wild*; you'd need to take 280 of Life Extension's NR capsules per day, for a total cost of about $75,000 per year. That's obviously not going to happen.

Zhang et al found a significant, but small, increase in mean lifespan: from about 829 to 868 days. This is a 4.7% increase in mean lifespan. There is no possibility that an effect size of this magnitude would translate over to humans; the human effect size will be much smaller. How much smaller? This is actually something I'm doing research on, but for a ballpark let's say it's only 20% as big, or a roughly 1.0% increase in mean lifespan.

Let's also say that you start taking the NR when you're 40, and that you somehow get a huge 90% discount from somewhere (as you're a big spending lifelong customer), and you discover that you only need 200 mg/kg/day (awesome!). This still translates to $3750/year for about 40 years, or $150,000 to get roughly a one year increase in lifespan. This is about 3 times what most clinical researchers consider "efficient" or reasonable for the cost of a QALY."


Edited by Bryan_S, 05 May 2016 - 12:56 AM.
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#436 stefan_001

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 08:26 PM

From a commenter on Mario Konovalenko's Facebook post:

 

"Hi all:
1) They do have a methods section; it's in their supplementary material. Paywalled as everything here, but just copy and paste the DOI into sci-hub.bz (I'm not sure about how to get the supplementary material though)


2) In the Zhang study, the mouse were fed with either normal chow diet or with NR 400 mg/kg/day. Assuming the same oral dose per kg is needed in humans, this is about (400 mg/kg)*(70 kg for a 155 pound male) ~ 28,000 mg NR per day. This is obviously *wild*; you'd need to take 280 of Life Extension's NR capsules per day, for a total cost of about $75,000 per year. That's obviously not going to happen.

Zhang et al found a significant, but small, increase in mean lifespan: from about 829 to 868 days. This is a 4.7% increase in mean lifespan. There is no possibility that an effect size of this magnitude would translate over to humans; the human effect size will be much smaller. How much smaller? This is actually something I'm doing research on, but for a ballpark let's say it's only 20% as big, or a roughly 1.0% increase in mean lifespan.

Let's also say that you start taking the NR when you're 40, and that you somehow get a huge 90% discount from somewhere (as you're a big spending lifelong customer), and you discover that you only need 200 mg/kg/day (awesome!). This still translates to $3750/year for about 40 years, or $150,000 to get roughly a one year increase in lifespan. This is about 3 times what most clinical researchers consider "efficient" or reasonable for the cost of a QALY."

 

The calculation of the dose for humans is wrong, it doesn't translate like that, here it is for example calculated to be:

 

http://www.timelessl...e-span-in-mice/

 

approximately 2.1 gram daily nicotinamide riboside dose for a person weighing 70kg

 

 

with such basic mistakes it is hard to take anything of the post serious

 

 


Edited by stefan_001, 04 May 2016 - 08:36 PM.

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#437 Bryan_S

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 11:12 PM

The calculation of the dose for humans is wrong, it doesn't translate like that, here it is for example calculated to be:

 

http://www.timelessl...e-span-in-mice/

 

approximately 2.1 gram daily nicotinamide riboside dose for a person weighing 70kg

 

 

with such basic mistakes it is hard to take anything of the post serious

 

 

I tried to find the original post but could not. Someone just winging it I guess.



#438 Kirito

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 11:49 PM

https://www.facebook...valenko?fref=nf

 

In the bottom of the comments in the post from May 1st. She later re-posted that comment to her wall. Yes - somebody winging it, IMO.


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#439 Bryan_S

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 12:02 AM

Dose-Dependent Elevation of the Blood NAD Metabolome by NR in Healthy Human Beings: Clinical Efficacy and Novel Diagnostic Biomarkers 

 

Poster

 

post-34050-0-58669500-1462406406.jpg

 

Abstract
Nicotinamide riboside chloride (NR) is in wide use as an orally available NAD precursor vitamin. Here we conducted three experiments to determine the time and dose-dependent effects of NR on blood and liver NAD metabolomes in people and in mice, respectively. We report that human blood cell NAD+ can rise as much as 2.7-fold with a single dose of NR, that NR elevates mouse hepatic NAD+ with distinct and superior kinetics to those of nicotinic acid (NA) and nicotinamide (Nam), and that single oral doses of 100 mg, 300 mg and 1 gram of NR provide dose-dependent increases in the blood cell NAD metabolome in the first controlled clinical study of NR pharmacokinetics. We also report that nicotinic acid adenine dinucleotide (NAAD), which is not thought to be en route for conversion of NR to NAD, is a highly sensitive biomarker of effective NAD supplementation.
 
Human n=1 experiment
A healthy 65 kg, 52 year old male took 1g of NR orally at 8 AM for 7 consecutive days (15 mg/kg). His blood was taken just prior to ingestion on days 0, 1 and 7, and was taken at 8 time points in the first 8.1 hours after ingestion. Blood was separated into a buffy coat (cellular) fraction and a plasma fraction. Urine was also collected. Table 1 shows the most informative components of the blood cell NAD metabolome on a common scale (1). NAD+ remained constant at ~9.1 microM for at least 2.7 hrs but rose to 2-3 fold basal levels at 4 to 24 hrs after oral doses. Peak NAD+ was at 8.1 hrs and was temporally coincident with peak Nam and N-methyl-4-pyridone-5-carboxamide (Me4PY), a nonsalvageable waste product. Surprisingly, NAAD rose from below 2 nM to above 400 nM. These data suggested that the rise in NAAD might be a 80-fold more sensitive biomarker of effective NAD+ supplementation than the rise in NAD+ itself. (CB and SAJT)
 
6 healthy male and 6 healthy female volunteers were recruited to take 100 mg, 300 mg and 1 gram doses of NR orally on 3 test dates separated by 7 day washout periods. Plasma, blood cell and urinary NAD metabolomes were determined as a function of time and dose. Blood cell NAD+ and NAAD excursions and Cmax values are shown for the three doses of NR. As expected, blood cell NAD+ levels are high and variable in human populations and changes in blood cell NAD+ are likely affected by diet, circadian oscillation and other factors. Nonetheless, comparing the 24 hr blood cellular NAD+ level for all participants at all doses to the predose NAD+ level , NR elevated NAD+ (P < 0.05) and higher doses of NR tended to have greater cellular NAD+ AUCs not because of higher NAD+ Cmax values but because of more temporally extended NAD+ excursions. NAAD exhibited reliable and sensitive dose-dependent excursions with a clear peak at 8 hrs after each dose. (CB, MSS, BJW, FJ and RWD)
 
NAD metabolites undergo circadian oscillation(2,3). To eliminate circadian oscillation as an experimental confounder, we developed an oral gavage protocol in which male C57BL/6 mice were given single oral doses of NR at 185 mg/kg 20’, 1 hr, 2 hr, 4 hr, 6 hr, 8 hr and 12 hr prior to sacrifice, which was always performed at ~ 2 pm. In addition, mice were dosed with equimole amounts of NA, Nam and a control saline solution, and mice were sacrificed at 2 pm without gavage. Each experimental point included 4 mice (128 mice in total), all of which were sacrificed with freeze-clamping of the liver followed by quantitative targeted NAD metabolomic analysis(1). Six NAD metabolites are shown for all three NAD precursor vitamins plus saline gavage. In the left panels are concentration vs time excursions for the metabolites. In the right panels are baseline-subtracted areas under the curve (AUCs) for the corresponding metabolites. Figure 1A shows that the pharmacokinetics of NR, Nam and NA are distinct with NR having the slowest and greatest degree of hepatic NAD+ formation. Figure 1B shows that NA peaks in the liver 20’ after NA gavage and neither NR nor Nam produce a peak of NA at any time. Figure 1C shows that Nam gavage produces a 20’ peak of hepatic Nam in addition to a lengthy peak of elevated Nam that corresponds to the hepatic NAD+ excursion. In contrast, NA and NR gavage produce hepatic Nam with kinetics that exclusively correspond to elevated NAD+, suggesting that NR is a hepatic NAD+ precursor through the NR kinase pathway rather than Nam salvage. Surprisingly, Figures 1E and 1F indicate that all three NAD+ precursor vitamins elevate NAMN and NAAD. Though neither metabolite is considered on-pathway for NR(4), NR elevated NAMN and NAAD to a much greater extent than did NA or Nam with a peak at 4 hrs post-gavage. Preliminary experiments with double stable isotope-labeled NR indicate that both the Nam and ribosyl moieties of NR are incorporated into both metabolites. (CB, SAJT, BJW, PR and MEM).
 
Conclusions
Though NAD+ is a highly abundant and variable metabolite in human blood, it is effectively elevated by single 100 mg, 300 mg and 1g oral doses of NR and this can be seen in small, controlled clinical studies. NAAD is a sensitive, novel biomarker of effective NAD supplementation.

Attached Files


Edited by Bryan_S, 05 May 2016 - 12:23 AM.
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#440 stefan_001

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 02:04 PM

Raising NAD+ levels in the brain restores cognition in rats with Alzheimer’s disease

 

 

http://www.timelessl...eimers-disease/

 

They used NMN. I wonder why researchers are not switching to NR for this, commercial interests?


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#441 Ethic

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 04:04 PM

So, 128 sacrificed mice (RIP) and a human trial later we see in this paper:

 

 

 - NAD+ is a highly abundant and variable metabolite in healthy human blood

 - NR is the best NAD+ precursor (peakwise)

 - Nam is an almost as good NAD+ precursor (AUC)

 - NR is the best NAAD precursor (peakwise/AUC)

 

 - NAAD is a sensitive biomarker of effective NAD supplementation

 

 

 - Nam elevates Me4PY (N-methyl-4-pyridone-5-carboxamide) about two hours earlier and to a higher extent than NR and Niacin

 - NR and Nam are practically not metabolised into Niacin


Previously some of you guys mentioned Nam as a Sirt1 inhibitor.

What if Me4PY is an even stronger Sirt1 inhibitor?

 

Anyone ever considered Me4PY and other weird Nam metabolites as Sirt inhibitors?

 

 

And I guess the new optimal dosage for consistent blood levels of NAD+ is 1000mg NR daily (you don't say, chromadex)

 

(AUC = Area under the curve)

 

 

Dose-Dependent Elevation of the Blood NAD Metabolome by NR in Healthy Human Beings: Clinical Efficacy and Novel Diagnostic Biomarkers

 

 


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#442 Nate-2004

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 07:59 PM

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

I just saw this and read through it including the referenced links within. It was really disappointing to read and I'm wishing I hadn't missed it earlier, especially having just bought six bottles of the stuff totalling $211 from HPN.

 

SENS is at the forefront of age research and is by far the most distinguished scientific foundations researching senescence. I did not know the original study used NMN as opposed to NR as a precursor to boost NAD in mice. Was this the only study done? I imagine so since replicating studies is so rare these days mostly due to the lack of rewards and "gotta be first" incentives within academia. 

 

This article was highly critical of the NAD study in a number of ways, one of which was only reinforced by the recent Chromadex trials posted above showing that 1g is optimal compared to the lower doses. Not that I trust a trial with such super small sample sizes (and no mention of the ages of the few other adults they tested) from a company that sells the product they're doing trials on. That's just blatant conflict of interest. I was not surprised by the positive results. There needs to be independent trials. Especially considering this quote:

 

 

 

But no study has actually been done demonstrating that NR has similar effects to NMN in the muscles of otherwise-healthy aging mice. In fact, one study found that high-dose NR supplementation was unable to increase NAD levels in muscle tissue or the mitochondrial fraction of normal, healthy mice.[4] Additionally, overexpressing the gene that converts NR to NMN in these animals’ muscles still didn’t affect muscle mitochondrial function in the way that the Harvard researchers reported with NMN, suggesting that the effects observed with injected NMN may involve some kind of systemic response to having NMN itself circulating in the bloodstream.[4] This casts considerable doubt on the assumption that either NR, or some other supplement that raises cellular NAD levels, will replicate the effects of NMN on aging muscle. (see: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/25411251)

 

I have not seen any commentary on this article or responses to it in this thread. It seems incredibly important, yet people sort of glossed over it or ignored it, and nobody discussed it at all.

 

What of this quote here?

 

 

 

Moreover, even if NR supplements do provide an immediate jolt to muscle mitochondrial metabolism in the way that the Harvard NMN studies suggest, it’s not clear that doing so is a good idea in the long term. NMN injections don’t improve mitochondrial function by repairing molecular damage wrought by the aging process in the organelles, nor in other cells and biomolecules whose damage with age results in a dampening-down of mitochondrial activity (see discussion in Question of the Month #11: “Are Mitochondrial Mutations Really All That Important?”). Instead, NMN injections leave the existing damage in place, and induce the still-functional mitochondria to work harder and pump out more energy. This is rather like pushing harder on the gas pedal when your car is not running at full power due to damage to its cams and push rods: it may make the car go faster in the short term, but the underlying damage hasn’t been fixed, and will likely get even worse from the excessive wear.

 

 

Also it mentions that the mice were only treated for a week and there've been no experiments with NR on mice to test longevity.

 

It also talks only about muscle tissue. If NR functions as advertised, is it really only good for aging muscle tissue and nothing more?

 

What does SIRT1 and SIRT3 do for DNA damage/repair or prevention?


Edited by Nate-2004, 05 May 2016 - 08:01 PM.


#443 stefan_001

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 08:31 PM

 

SENS have weighed in on NR supplementation with their own analysis of the mouse research on NMN (Posted 23rd November 2015):

 

http://sens.org/rese...ng-mitochondria

 

I just saw this and read through it including the referenced links within. It was really disappointing to read and I'm wishing I hadn't missed it earlier, especially having just bought six bottles of the stuff totalling $211 from HPN.

 

SENS is at the forefront of age research and is by far the most distinguished scientific foundations researching senescence. I did not know the original study used NMN as opposed to NR as a precursor to boost NAD in mice. Was this the only study done? I imagine so since replicating studies is so rare these days mostly due to the lack of rewards and "gotta be first" incentives within academia. 

 

This article was highly critical of the NAD study in a number of ways, one of which was only reinforced by the recent Chromadex trials posted above showing that 1g is optimal compared to the lower doses. Not that I trust a trial with such super small sample sizes (and no mention of the ages of the few other adults they tested) from a company that sells the product they're doing trials on. That's just blatant conflict of interest. I was not surprised by the positive results. There needs to be independent trials. Especially considering this quote:

 

 

 

But no study has actually been done demonstrating that NR has similar effects to NMN in the muscles of otherwise-healthy aging mice. In fact, one study found that high-dose NR supplementation was unable to increase NAD levels in muscle tissue or the mitochondrial fraction of normal, healthy mice.[4] Additionally, overexpressing the gene that converts NR to NMN in these animals’ muscles still didn’t affect muscle mitochondrial function in the way that the Harvard researchers reported with NMN, suggesting that the effects observed with injected NMN may involve some kind of systemic response to having NMN itself circulating in the bloodstream.[4] This casts considerable doubt on the assumption that either NR, or some other supplement that raises cellular NAD levels, will replicate the effects of NMN on aging muscle. (see: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/25411251)

 

I have not seen any commentary on this article or responses to it in this thread. It seems incredibly important, yet people sort of glossed over it or ignored it, and nobody discussed it at all.

 

What of this quote here?

 

 

 

Moreover, even if NR supplements do provide an immediate jolt to muscle mitochondrial metabolism in the way that the Harvard NMN studies suggest, it’s not clear that doing so is a good idea in the long term. NMN injections don’t improve mitochondrial function by repairing molecular damage wrought by the aging process in the organelles, nor in other cells and biomolecules whose damage with age results in a dampening-down of mitochondrial activity (see discussion in Question of the Month #11: “Are Mitochondrial Mutations Really All That Important?”). Instead, NMN injections leave the existing damage in place, and induce the still-functional mitochondria to work harder and pump out more energy. This is rather like pushing harder on the gas pedal when your car is not running at full power due to damage to its cams and push rods: it may make the car go faster in the short term, but the underlying damage hasn’t been fixed, and will likely get even worse from the excessive wear.

 

 

Also it mentions that the mice were only treated for a week and there've been no experiments with NR on mice to test longevity.

 

It also talks only about muscle tissue. If NR functions as advertised, is it really only good for aging muscle tissue and nothing more?

 

What does SIRT1 and SIRT3 do for DNA damage/repair or prevention?

 

 

Uhhh Nate, didnt you say you would read these threads and actually that is what you say also in this post? the SENS article is crap and has been commented several times even recently.

 

And this study is pretty hot news and discussed here too..should have shed light on the muscle comment:

http://www.timelessl...e-span-in-mice/

 

seems you also missed a large post from Brian on the same topic in this page.

 

Just saying man google is wonderfull:

 

SIRT1: https://www.google.c...ssl#q=sirt1 dna

 

SIRT3: https://www.google.c...ssl#q=sirt3 dna

 

 

 


Edited by stefan_001, 05 May 2016 - 08:42 PM.

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#444 Nate-2004

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 09:02 PM

 

Uhhh Nate, didnt you say you would read these threads and actually that is what you say also in this post? the SENS article is crap and has been commented several times even recently.

 

And this study is pretty hot news and discussed here too..should have shed light on the muscle comment:

http://www.timelessl...e-span-in-mice/

 

seems you also missed a large post from Brian on the same topic in this page.

 

Just saying man google is wonderfull:

 

SIRT1: https://www.google.c...ssl#q=sirt1 dna

 

SIRT3: https://www.google.c...ssl#q=sirt3 dna

 

 

This thread is becoming super long you'll have to forgive me for not seeing what you're referring to. I only by chance even spotted that Sens post. I looked through and only spotted one or two not so productive responses to it that got a lot of bad marks. I didn't see any responses by Bryan who tends to make some really good, informative posts about NAD and other stuff. I'm looking through again and I don't see any responses to it. Am I blind?

 

Thanks for the links above, that helps a ton. Looks like that study comes after the response from SENS so I'm guessing they'll have to respond to that one still. There's still the other things they said with regards to damage repair and the stepping on the gas pedal metaphors. 

 

Also from the article linked on Timeless we still have the dosing issue mentioned by SENS and again by this study and also reaffirmed by Chromadex in the latest trial showing that 1g is superior to 300mg doses, just look at the NAAD results.

 

Using this guideline 400 mg/kg dosing in mice translates into a HED of approx. 32mg/kg. Or into approximately 2.1 gram daily nicotinamide riboside dose for a person weighing 70kg. Typical supplements on the market have serving sizes of 250mg. It should be noted that this dose is on the high end wrt to side effects and safety and therefore a therapeutic approach likely to be done under medical supervision.

 


Edited by Nate-2004, 05 May 2016 - 09:10 PM.


#445 stefan_001

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 09:15 PM

 



 

 

 I didn't see any responses by Bryan who tends to make some really good, informative posts about NAD and other stuff. I'm looking through again and I don't see any responses to it. Am I blind?

 

 

Also from the article linked on Timeless we still have the dosing issue mentioned by SENS and again by this study and also reaffirmed by Chromadex in the latest trial showing that 1g is superior to 300mg doses, just look at the NAAD results.

 

Using this guideline 400 mg/kg dosing in mice translates into a HED of approx. 32mg/kg. Or into approximately 2.1 gram daily nicotinamide riboside dose for a person weighing 70kg. Typical supplements on the market have serving sizes of 250mg. It should be noted that this dose is on the high end wrt to side effects and safety and therefore a therapeutic approach likely to be done under medical supervision.

 

 

Brian post #414 and #416

 

For the dosing I would think there are differences between therapeutic applications and "regular" anti- aging / maintenance. The above is clearly a therapeutic application. Read also the post from yesterday on the topic. My advice is just experiment a bit. You bought the stuff already anyways.
 


Edited by stefan_001, 05 May 2016 - 09:19 PM.

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#446 Nate-2004

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 09:38 PM

Brian post #414 and #416

 

For the dosing I would think there are differences between therapeutic applications and "regular" anti- aging / maintenance. The above is clearly a therapeutic application. Read also the post from yesterday on the topic. My advice is just experiment a bit. You bought the stuff already anyways.

 

Wow thanks! Those two posts pretty much answered all my questions and lead me to a whole lot more reading material for later.



#447 Ethic

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 12:12 AM

Now that we know NR is life prolonging (in mice), we need basic longevity testing including equimolar NR, NaR, NMN, NaMN, Nam, Niacin, and possibly NAD+, NaAD+ administration to sort out some candidates and to better understand the exact mechanisms. Because as stefan said, labs still use NMN due to the 2013 paper.

 

There is NMN <-> NaMN and/or NR <-> NaR conversion in the liver, see Figure 1B+1E in the last Brenner/ChromaDex paper (NAD+/NaAD+ ratio is about 1:10, same for these ones?), but maybe that's old news.

 

And then there is Nam. As far as I remember Bryan saw improvements from both Nam and NR. I'd be glad to read more experiences from people who used (high-dose) Nam and now NR. When seeing some results, I think there is still a chance for it.
 



#448 Bryan_S

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:46 AM

 

I have not seen any commentary on this article or responses to it in this thread. It seems incredibly important, yet people sort of glossed over it or ignored it, and nobody discussed it at all.

 

What of this quote here?

 

 

 

Moreover, even if NR supplements do provide an immediate jolt to muscle mitochondrial metabolism in the way that the Harvard NMN studies suggest, it’s not clear that doing so is a good idea in the long term. NMN injections don’t improve mitochondrial function by repairing molecular damage wrought by the aging process in the organelles, nor in other cells and biomolecules whose damage with age results in a dampening-down of mitochondrial activity (see discussion in Question of the Month #11: “Are Mitochondrial Mutations Really All That Important?”). Instead, NMN injections leave the existing damage in place, and induce the still-functional mitochondria to work harder and pump out more energy. This is rather like pushing harder on the gas pedal when your car is not running at full power due to damage to its cams and push rods: it may make the car go faster in the short term, but the underlying damage hasn’t been fixed, and will likely get even worse from the excessive wear.

 

http://www.longecity...-14#entry772073

 

Nate see the posts around this link. There are still many facets of this thread to discover. Also use the search window in the upper right hand corner. If your any good at keyword search you can find the exact comments your looking for in this search engine on LongeCity. 



#449 Nate-2004

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:51 AM

 

It's weird that SENS nor Michael Rae makes no mention of Sirt1 or 3 in the above post or any of the posts linked with regards to repairing the damage they talk so extensively about.

 

 

http://www.longecity...-14#entry772073

 

Nate see the posts around this link. There are still many facets of this thread to discover. Also use the search window in the upper right hand corner. If your any good at keyword search you can find the exact comments your looking for in this search engine on LongeCity. 

 

Thanks Bryan. Stefan pointed me to your posts which lead me to all sorts of things.

 

Does SENS do a lot of research with Sirtuins? I probably should finish that Abrey de Grey book but it's over 8 years old now, wondering how relevant it is.



#450 Bryan_S

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:53 AM

 

Brian post #414 and #416

 

For the dosing I would think there are differences between therapeutic applications and "regular" anti- aging / maintenance. The above is clearly a therapeutic application. Read also the post from yesterday on the topic. My advice is just experiment a bit. You bought the stuff already anyways.

 

Wow thanks! Those two posts pretty much answered all my questions and lead me to a whole lot more reading material for later.

 

 

Good I'm catching up post by post. Nate, what you want took us several years to research. Once you learn how to search for this here and on google, not only will you be answering your own questions but I think you make a strong contributor.


Edited by Bryan_S, 06 May 2016 - 03:29 AM.






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