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Nicotinamide Riboside [Curated]

nicotinamide riboside nicotinamide nad boosting charles brenner david sinclair leonard guarente niagen niacinamide nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#601 normalizing

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:10 AM

are you taking the magnolia extract or what, because im not sure how one can measure honokiol content in there.

 

nate2004, by reading all those studies i would expect to feel it i mean look at some of the literature behind it. it has this proposition of basically saying it can be felt, it boosts energy and SHOULD help fatigue! but my question is, how is coconut water not better than NR in fatigue elevation, since thats what im experiencing right now, coconut water (very slightly) defeats NR in fatigue elevation, now thats shocking.


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#602 midas

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:17 AM

ive been experimenting with NR for a month on and off now, i dont get it, i use quite high dose of 500mg and there is no a single noticeable effect. i tried it today again for fatigue, but usually even simple coconut water helps a bit with fatigue and this praised crap doesnt!? wow

 

please post experience comments here:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/69729-nicotinamide-riboside-nrniagen-personal-experience-thread/page-25

 

 

are you taking the magnolia extract or what, because im not sure how one can measure honokiol content in there.

 

nate2004, by reading all those studies i would expect to feel it i mean look at some of the literature behind it. it has this proposition of basically saying it can be felt, it boosts energy and SHOULD help fatigue! but my question is, how is coconut water not better than NR in fatigue elevation, since thats what im experiencing right now, coconut water (very slightly) defeats NR in fatigue elevation, now thats shocking.

 

Looked through a few of your posts mate, seems your a bit of a dick!


Edited by midas, 09 June 2016 - 03:18 AM.

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#603 normalizing

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:21 AM


 

ive been experimenting with NR for a month on and off now, i dont get it, i use quite high dose of 500mg and there is no a single noticeable effect. i tried it today again for fatigue, but usually even simple coconut water helps a bit with fatigue and this praised crap doesnt!? wow

 

please post experience comments here:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/69729-nicotinamide-riboside-nrniagen-personal-experience-thread/page-25

 

 

are you taking the magnolia extract or what, because im not sure how one can measure honokiol content in there.

 

nate2004, by reading all those studies i would expect to feel it i mean look at some of the literature behind it. it has this proposition of basically saying it can be felt, it boosts energy and SHOULD help fatigue! but my question is, how is coconut water not better than NR in fatigue elevation, since thats what im experiencing right now, coconut water (very slightly) defeats NR in fatigue elevation, now thats shocking.

 

Looked through a few of your posts mate, seems your a bit of a dick!

 

 

your
 


Edited by normalizing, 09 June 2016 - 03:22 AM.

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#604 tunt01

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:24 AM

but my question is, how is coconut water not better than NR in fatigue elevation, since thats what im experiencing right now, coconut water (very slightly) defeats NR in fatigue elevation, now thats shocking.

 

 

These are almost diametrically opposed biological processes that you are talking about.  In the fasted state (calorie restricted or NR/SIRT1/SIRT3), you are trying to push your body into fat burning mode.  In the fed state (coconut water, glycolysis etc.), you are digesting glucose.  There are no calries in an NR pill.  Of course, it is different than a bottle of coconut water.  If you decide to stick your finger in a power socket, you will experience significant energy but it is not the same thing as NR or coconut water.

 

If you are metabolically healthy, young, then NR may be absolutely worthless to you.  If you are diabetic, suffer from metabolic syndrome or experiencing aging whereby insulin resistance and metabolic disturbances are creeping up on you, then NR should be beneficial.

 

Of course, this assumes there is no negative consequence of NR, for which I have no idea at this point.


Edited by prophets, 09 June 2016 - 03:25 AM.

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#605 Nate-2004

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:26 AM

are you taking the magnolia extract or what, because im not sure how one can measure honokiol content in there.

 

nate2004, by reading all those studies i would expect to feel it i mean look at some of the literature behind it. it has this proposition of basically saying it can be felt, it boosts energy and SHOULD help fatigue! but my question is, how is coconut water not better than NR in fatigue elevation, since thats what im experiencing right now, coconut water (very slightly) defeats NR in fatigue elevation, now thats shocking.

 

A lot of things help fatigue. Someone with sleep apnea who uses CPAP regularly for over 3 months, like I did, is going to find themselves with a *profound* difference in energy, relative to their original sleep deprived state. Sleep is a huge factor in energy and fatigue levels, so is exercise and so is water.  This is why I'm not discounting the L-theanine before sleep as a possible factor.

 

I don't know what you should feel with NR and like I said I don't know if my energy level is related at all to NR. I don't think there is any implication or claim that one should "feel" anything. There may still be something going on. Sirtuins are NAD dependent and *if* NR boosts the falling NAD levels with age then theoretically this should be a good thing, but to what effect who knows? I'm still unsure that NR boosts NAD. I've not seen enough convincing evidence of this and I don't trust Chromadex's "study" on it. It's inherently going to be biased, it wasn't controlled nor was the sample size significant.  One longecity user claims that she had her blood tested before and after 1g NR usage and saw nothing, but I've not heard back about whether they were testing NAD levels or what they were testing. I'd like to see a quality, double blind controlled study on humans proving that NR is boosting NAD levels from an independent source that isn't profiting from the sales of substance whose sole manufacturer is protected from competition by a government protection racket (aka patent).

 

Your NAD levels aren't likely the cause of your fatigue if you're under 40. I know somewhere in this thread there's a reference or chart indicating the degression of NAD levels with age. Isn't there?

 

Magnolia Extract is 95% honokiol according to some sources in a Google search. I don't know how true that is, I can't find anything definitive. Magnolia Bark Extract does have honokiol in it and it's the only source of honokiol one can find available.

 

And since I'm out of posts today:

 

nate2004, so you are just taking magnolia extract without any confirmation of how much % honokiol is in there but just with the belief it has 95% because of a google search?

 

Well, I'm taking NR with limited evidence that it actually increases NAD+ so even if I am it doesn't matter. Swanson's label says 90% honokiol and that's the brand I'm taking. So I'm going by the label on that.

 


Edited by Nate-2004, 09 June 2016 - 03:59 AM.

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#606 normalizing

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:34 AM

prophets, im trying to use NR for energy when im excausted and have fatigue for various reasons like illness or alcohol abuse, ill assume if it helps for older people with deficiency in mitochondria energy it might help with such mimesis as well?

 

nate2004, so you are just taking magnolia extract without any confirmation of how much % honokiol is in there but just with the belief it has 95% because of a google search?


Edited by normalizing, 09 June 2016 - 03:36 AM.


#607 Logic

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 04:15 AM

Has anyone mentioned Horney Goat Weed and PQQ for SIRT3?

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=667735

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=565043

 



#608 Harkijn

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 10:38 AM

I am hoping to edge this thread back to NADboosting :)  with a question for those with  expertise in biochemistry.

 

The question relates to why the effects of taking NR seems to vary so widely.

 

In the study by Zhong et al., mentioned by Brian before

 

http://science.scien...3.full.pdf html

, Clp protease proteolytic (CLPP, see wikipedia) is not the main focus, I think. However, trying to deepen my knowledge about NADboosting I learned that CLPP seems to be the repairman of mitochondrial functioning. If CLPP gets little NAD, mitochondrial repair will be sloppy and if  NR suppletion  leads to more NAD then CLPP will function better.

However, in order to function properly CLPP also needs magnesium as well as ATP. So, my impression is that people who do not feel any effect after at least four or five weeks of NR supplementation, could try to up their intake of magnesium and enhance ATP by taking creatine. Theoretically this could lessen mitochondrial dysfunctioning and so stimulate longevity.

Does this make sense?

 


#609 Yajerman

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:28 PM

For those who were following the patent issue surrounding Niagin, I found this tid bit @  seekingalpha.com/article/3980881

 

"Chromadex's important patents do not expire until around 2025 to 2030."

 

 


Edited by Yajerman, 09 June 2016 - 02:29 PM.


#610 bluemoon

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:09 PM

For those who were following the patent issue surrounding Niagin, I found this tid bit @  seekingalpha.com/article/3980881

 

"Chromadex's important patents do not expire until around 2025 to 2030."

 

They have 20 years from filing so that seems correct. The good news is that the health pill world with pharma will have moved on long before then.

 

It has seemed to me from last year that ChromaDex, Elysium, etc have a pretty small window to do well in, maybe 2016 to 2019-2021 or so.


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#611 Black Fox

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 07:35 AM

I've been thinking deeply about whether or not I should purchase some NR or Alpha Lipoic Acid.
 
My conclusion is that neither one of them seems to offer "extreme" levels of anti-aging effects. They both provide significant health benefits, but I'm unsure if either one will literally "turn back the clock" significantly in a fairly short duration of time (months instead of years). However, I think there is a chance the two could be synergistic. PGC-1a is activated very strongly by Alpha Lipoic Acid and can increase the amount of SIRT1 protein by six fold! NR doesn't increase the amount of protein by any measurable amount, but simply provides NAD+ to activate it.
 
So if we can produce six times the SIRT1 protein and activate all of it, I think that could yield a potent anti-aging effect.
 
In my opinion, the NAD+, telomerase, and SIRT boosting properties of ALA and NR needs to be tested, ASAP.

 
I hadn't read that do we have a study link?
This connection is intriguing. The very first time I read something about nicotinamide was in connection with ALA:
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21507065
You really should forget about it... ALA is produced naturally by the body as a strong master antioxidant. However, If you supplement yourself with it you will actually decrease your own production so go to the opposite effect. In mice the supplementation decrease lifespan significantly : http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22785389
 
There is also others studies I read in the past that show its negative part..

regular ALA contains 50/50 R-ALA and S-ALA, when ALA is synthesized you'll get 50/50 mix, most of the seller can't be bothered to set them apart as it isn't cost effective. And S-ALA is literally poison.

At high concentrations, S-Lipoic acid inhibits mitochondria metabolism and the antioxidant activity of R-lipoic acid.
S-Lipoic acid is metabolized in the outer cell membrane. This may interfere with R-Lipoic acid's ability to penetrate the inner mitochondrial membrane and energy production

R-Lipoic acid is the only form of lipoic acid that is proven to significantly increase your cellular and mitochondrial antioxidant activity for preventing mitochondrial decay. This effectively attenuates the reported increase in oxidative stress with aging.R-Lipoic acid is the only form of Lipoic acid that is proven to expand total life span.

Our bodies don't produce enough of this, especially at later stages of our lifes, if as they say R-ALA is capable of increasing SIRT1 by 6 times fold, it'll be interesting some NAD+ boosting working along side
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#612 stefan_001

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 09:56 AM

 

For those who were following the patent issue surrounding Niagin, I found this tid bit @  seekingalpha.com/article/3980881

 

"Chromadex's important patents do not expire until around 2025 to 2030."

 

They have 20 years from filing so that seems correct. The good news is that the health pill world with pharma will have moved on long before then.

 

It has seemed to me from last year that ChromaDex, Elysium, etc have a pretty small window to do well in, maybe 2016 to 2019-2021 or so.

 

 

you wrote "The good news is that the health pill world with pharma will have moved on long before then."

 
Well I am not sure how good news that is from pricing perspective....big pharma treatments are typically out of reach for normal people. 

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#613 midas

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 10:43 AM

For those who were following the patent issue surrounding Niagin, I found this tid bit @  seekingalpha.com/article/3980881

 

"Chromadex's important patents do not expire until around 2025 to 2030."

 

 

 

For those who were following the patent issue surrounding Niagin, I found this tid bit @  seekingalpha.com/article/3980881

 

"Chromadex's important patents do not expire until around 2025 to 2030."

 

They have 20 years from filing so that seems correct. The good news is that the health pill world with pharma will have moved on long before then.

 

It has seemed to me from last year that ChromaDex, Elysium, etc have a pretty small window to do well in, maybe 2016 to 2019-2021 or so.

 

 

You must keep in mind it isn't actually Nicotinamide Riboside that is patented as it is natural and cannot be patented. It is the manufacturing process that has been patented....So hopefully someone else will come up with another way of producing it.


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#614 Nate-2004

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 01:31 PM

regular ALA contains 50/50 R-ALA and S-ALA, when ALA is synthesized you'll get 50/50 mix, most of the seller can't be bothered to set them apart as it isn't cost effective. And S-ALA is literally poison.


At high concentrations, S-Lipoic acid inhibits mitochondria metabolism and the antioxidant activity of R-lipoic acid.
S-Lipoic acid is metabolized in the outer cell membrane. This may interfere with R-Lipoic acid's ability to penetrate the inner mitochondrial membrane and energy production

R-Lipoic acid is the only form of lipoic acid that is proven to significantly increase your cellular and mitochondrial antioxidant activity for preventing mitochondrial decay. This effectively attenuates the reported increase in oxidative stress with aging.R-Lipoic acid is the only form of Lipoic acid that is proven to expand total life span.

Our bodies don't produce enough of this, especially at later stages of our lifes, if as they say R-ALA is capable of increasing SIRT1 by 6 times fold, it'll be interesting some NAD+ boosting working along side

 

 

1) I found R-Lipoic acid (the "stable" Na-RALA) from a brand that uses capsules and has a 3 for 3 label accuracy rating on Amazon.

2) This states that lipoic acid stimulates SIRT1 and SIRT3 but makes no differentiation or mention that I can find of type R vs. S.

3) This article on a site selling you RALA has a slew of references at the end to various in vitro and in vivo (rat) studies such as this in vitro study.

 

Still not sure if that's enough for me to actually buy that Na-R-Lipoic from Amazon and try it, but given that I only have 3 bottles of NR left, I might give it a go with this.


Edited by Nate-2004, 10 June 2016 - 01:42 PM.


#615 bluemoon

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 07:47 PM

 

 

You must keep in mind it isn't actually Nicotinamide Riboside that is patented as it is natural and cannot be patented. It is the manufacturing process that has been patented....So hopefully someone else will come up with another way of producing it.

 

 

I've realized this but also see that no one has come up with an alternative so far and have no idea how feasible that might be.

 

As for a pharmaceutical, David Sinclair thought many years ago that something like SRT2104 , if it was effective, would cost around $2 to $3 a day. I've read a couple of others in the anti-aging field say something similar, but we won't know until they are out. I had thought that NR , pterostilbine, resveratrol, etc might be helpful until the presumably more effective drugs are on the market from 2017 - 2021 or so. In 2009, I kept track of when anti-aging researchers said they thought the first pill would be out (" within 10 years", etc) to come up with that time range.

 

I'm still holding off on NR until I see human trial results.


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#616 Female Scientist

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 02:29 AM

Every time I've tried taking ALA I've experienced a hypoglycemic "crash" a few hours later. Sweating, shaking, dizziness, etc. all remedied by having some food.  My blood sugar etc is normal and I have no medical conditions, but I am somewhat prone to hypoglycemia. (If I eat right, it never happens though.) There is no doubt that ALA triggers this in me -- even low does, even when I eat properly (no sweets, no processed carbs, plenty of protein, etc). There is not a ton of info on this online, although it does make sense, given ALA's reported properties. Just thought I'd mention in case anyone else was considering taking it -- this is a potentially unpleasant (and possibly even dangerous) effect people should be aware of.

 

I realize this isn't an NR comment (although I do take 250 NR and love it), but since we're talking about adding ALA I thought I'd mention this. Thanks all, great forum.



#617 Bryan_S

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:59 AM

If we are talking about SIRT activators we've learned through David Sinclair and Leonard Guarantee they do us little good unless we have ample NAD+ pools to support them. So for those who are looking at the activators remember the SIRT's are dependent on the available NAD+ pool, so they appear to be tied to one another and taking the NAD precursors has a direct effect in raising NAD levels which are needed to support the SIRT activities. That being said, raising NAD levels also increases sirtuin levels, mostly SIRT1 but also SIRT3 so I have to ask do we need to stimulate the sirtuin 1 levels in the first place if we are taking the NAD+ precursors like Nicotinamide Riboside? In this I'm taking about Resveratrol and Pterostilbene.

 

I see some of this like Resveratrol, Pterostilbene and ALA as superfluous if Nicotinamide Riboside activates SIRT1 and SIRT3 already. So how much do we need to do outside our (NR) regiment to get the sirtuin benefits?

 

Do we need to do any more? The Stem Cell research on extending the life of senescence cells also reinforced this notion because these test subjects didn't take Resveratrol or Pterostilbene

 

 


Edited by Bryan_S, 11 June 2016 - 04:18 AM.

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#618 Nate-2004

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 02:15 PM

 

You really should forget about it... ALA is produced naturally by the body as a strong master antioxidant. However, If you supplement yourself with it you will actually decrease your own production so go to the opposite effect. In mice the supplementation decrease lifespan significantly : http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22785389
 
There is also others studies I read in the past that show its negative part..

regular ALA contains 50/50 R-ALA and S-ALA, when ALA is synthesized you'll get 50/50 mix, most of the seller can't be bothered to set them apart as it isn't cost effective. And S-ALA is literally poison.

At high concentrations, S-Lipoic acid inhibits mitochondria metabolism and the antioxidant activity of R-lipoic acid.
S-Lipoic acid is metabolized in the outer cell membrane. This may interfere with R-Lipoic acid's ability to penetrate the inner mitochondrial membrane and energy production

R-Lipoic acid is the only form of lipoic acid that is proven to significantly increase your cellular and mitochondrial antioxidant activity for preventing mitochondrial decay. This effectively attenuates the reported increase in oxidative stress with aging.R-Lipoic acid is the only form of Lipoic acid that is proven to expand total life span.

Our bodies don't produce enough of this, especially at later stages of our lifes, if as they say R-ALA is capable of increasing SIRT1 by 6 times fold, it'll be interesting some NAD+ boosting working along side

 

 

This part of the discussion is getting off topic from NR, and should probably split off into its own thread from here even though the conversation is about taking it in conjunction with NR to boost NAD or sirtuin activity further.

 

This article has a ton of references cited and explains a lot of what Black Fox is talking about above but it still does not mention anything about what Tom said regarding the decreasing of one's own production due to supplementation. This was a concern that Aubrey de Grey mentions in his book regarding endogenic antioxidants. It was Tom's comment that stopped me from buying the supplement a few days ago. Tom's comment on this however has no references so I'm not sure where he or de Grey got the info from specifically, nor do I know if it's *all* endogenic antioxidants or just some.


Edited by Nate-2004, 11 June 2016 - 02:17 PM.


#619 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 02:50 PM

I used in the past the sodium salt of pure r lipoic acid: Na-R-Ala and my feeling was bad. After that I came across many studies that show both lifespan decrease and studies that show that we just cant compete our own endogene antioxidant. Thats also why I also stay far from Co10, and for this one also we have study that show it induces stroke in mice. So for now, my strategy is to use things that can help to increase our own production. NR, Pterostilbene, honokiol etc are all a much better strategy in my opinion


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#620 Nate-2004

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 07:17 PM

I used in the past the sodium salt of pure r lipoic acid: Na-R-Ala and my feeling was bad. After that I came across many studies that show both lifespan decrease and studies that show that we just cant compete our own endogene antioxidant. Thats also why I also stay far from Co10, and for this one also we have study that show it induces stroke in mice. So for now, my strategy is to use things that can help to increase our own production. NR, Pterostilbene, honokiol etc are all a much better strategy in my opinion

 

I've posted a new thread here.


Edited by Nate-2004, 11 June 2016 - 07:22 PM.

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#621 normalizing

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 12:01 AM

it seems most of you here take honokiol, how do you take this one, magnolia extract contains how much exactly and how sure are you that you are getting enough of it??


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#622 Bryan_S

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 10:28 PM

Researchers link specific enzyme to process of metabolic dysfunction in aging

June 14, 2016

 

Another link in falling NAD levels with aging.

fx1.jpg

Summary

"Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) levels decrease during aging and are involved in age-related metabolic decline. To date, the mechanism responsible for the age-related reduction in NAD has not been elucidated. Here we demonstrate that expression and activity of the NADase CD38 increase with aging and that CD38 is required for the age-related NAD decline and mitochondrial dysfunction via a pathway mediated at least in part by regulation of SIRT3 activity. We also identified CD38 as the main enzyme involved in the degradation of the NAD precursor nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) in vivo, indicating that CD38 has a key role in the modulation of NAD-replacement therapy for aging and metabolic diseases."

 

http://medicalxpress...ysfunction.html

 

http://www.cell.com/...4131(16)30224-8


Edited by Bryan_S, 14 June 2016 - 10:29 PM.

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#623 Nate-2004

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 10:40 PM

Wow awesome Brian! A root cause of falling NAD levels! That's big!  Inhibiting CD38 sounds like the next big goal. Either that or figuring out why it increases in the first place.


Edited by Nate-2004, 14 June 2016 - 10:42 PM.

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#624 Female Scientist

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 10:46 PM

Wow, that's fascinating, Brian -- does anyone have an idea of what this CD38 enzyme does, or anything more about it? I assume future therapies would perhaps target that mechanism, instead of simply boosting NAD?


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#625 Supierce

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 11:23 PM

A quick search of nadase cd38 brings up something similar from a few years ago:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2883294/

There don't seem to be any reliable cd38 inhibitors though:

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0066247

...and...

http://www.sciencedi...211383513000427

Edited by Supierce, 14 June 2016 - 11:27 PM.

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#626 Hebbeh

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 01:57 AM

From the original thread circa December 2013 http://www.longecity...es-again/page-2

 

And since the forum software won't let me paste "multiple" quotes ..... it will just be a cut and paste ... CREDIT Darryl

 

Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:48 AM

Another way to skin this cat: CD38 inhibition by dietary flavonoids

Cantó, Carles, and Johan Auwerx. "Targeting sirtuin 1 to improve metabolism: all you need is NAD+?." Pharmacological reviews 64.1 (2012): 166-187.

Quote

The function of CD38 as an intracellular NADase was subsequently proven right when mice lacking CD38 displayed a 30-fold increase in intracellular NAD levels (Aksoy et al., 2006b). This increase in NAD levels is far superior compared with the 2-fold increases generally observed in most genetic (PARP-1 deletion), pharmacological (NAD precursors), or physiological interventions (fasting, calorie restriction) that enhance NAD content. The increase in intracellular NAD elicited by CD38 deletion significantly activated SIRT1 and prompted clinical phenotypes similar to those expected for SIRT1 activation, including protection against diet-induced obesity and a robust deacetylation of SIRT1 targets (Aksoy et al., 2006).



Kellenberger, Esther, et al. "Flavonoids as inhibitors of human CD38." Bioorganic & medicinal chemistry letters 21.13 (2011): 3939-3942.

Quote

The dire paucity of CD38 inhibitors, however, renders the search for new molecular tools highly desirable. We report that human CD38 is inhibited at low micromolar concentrations by flavonoids such as luteolinidin, kuromanin (cyanidin-3-O-β-glucoside) and luteolin (IC50 <10 μM).



Escande, Carlos, et al. "Flavonoid apigenin Is an inhibitor of the NAD+ ase CD38: implications for cellular NAD+ metabolism, protein acetylation, and treatment of metabolic syndrome." Diabetes 62.4 (2013): 1084-1093.

Quote

Previously, we reported that CD38 is the primary NAD+ase in mammals. Moreover, CD38 knockout mice have higher NAD+ levels and are protected against obesity and metabolic syndrome. Here, we show that CD38 regulates global protein acetylation through changes in NAD+ levels and sirtuin activity. In addition, we characterize two CD38 inhibitors: quercetin and apigenin. We show that pharmacological inhibition of CD38 results in higher intracellular NAD+ levels and that treatment of cell cultures with apigenin decreases global acetylation as well as the acetylation of p53 and RelA-p65. Finally, apigenin administration to obese mice increases NAD+ levels, decreases global protein acetylation, and improves several aspects of glucose and lipid homeostasis.



It appears the most concentrated source for luteolinidin is black sorghum bran, while the most concentrated source for cyanidin-3-O-β-glucoside is purple corn color, an approved food color which contains some luteolinidin as well. According to the USDA flavonoid database, the best sources for luteolin are oregano, celery seed, juniper berries, thyme, and radicchio. Apigenin (parsley, celery seed, kumquats, celery hearts, oregano) and quercetin (capers, radishes, dill weed, coriander/cilantro, oregano, onions) from the Escande et al paper had slightly lower potency (IC50s of 14.8 and 16.4 μM).

This animal study certainly looks exactly like Sirt1 activation:

Tsuda, Takanori, et al. "Dietary cyanidin 3-O-β-D-glucoside-rich purple corn color prevents obesity and ameliorates hyperglycemia in mice." The Journal of nutrition 133.7 (2003): 2125-2130.

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Mice were fed control, cyanidin 3-glucoside-rich purple corn color (PCC), high fat (HF) or HF + PCC diet for 12 wk. Dietary PCC significantly suppressed the HF diet–induced increase in body weight gain, and white and brown adipose tissue weights. Feeding the HF diet markedly induced hypertrophy of the adipocytes in the epididymal white adipose tissue compared with the control group. In contrast, the induction did not occur in the HF + PCC group. The HF diet induced hyperglycemia, hyperinsulinemia and hyperleptinemia. These perturbations were completely normalized in rats fed HF + PCC. An increase in the tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α mRNA level occurred in the HF group and was normalized by dietary PCC. These results suggest that dietary PCC may ameliorate HF diet–induced insulin resistance in mice. PCC suppressed the mRNA levels of enzymes involved in fatty acid and triacylglycerol synthesis and lowered the sterol regulatory element binding protein-1 mRNA level in white adipose tissue

 

 

Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:40 PM

For those interested in the CD38 inhibition approach to increasing cellular NAD+, the most cost-effective source for the inhibitor cyanidin-3-O-β-glucoside isn't purple corn, it's black rice, which has 2 mg / g dry weight. Comes out to $5 / g of the anthocyanin at retail.
 
Maybe all the reported benefits of blueberries, blackberries, purple corn, purple yams, black-purple rice, pomegranates, other miscellaneous berries, etc., is actually due to the Cy3G levels in each and the subsequent upstream effect of NAD+ increase.

 


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#627 mrkosh1

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 02:04 AM

So which one of these is the best inhibitor of CD38?

 

I might buy some to go with the Na-R-ALA I'm going to start taking tomorrow.



#628 Nate-2004

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 02:16 AM

I noticed in one of the studies linked above that it mentioned CD38 is critical for social behavior in mice. I wonder if some CD38 is important but it gets out of control for some reason. I think figuring out why that happens or why the levels of CD38 rise in the first place is the key. None of the studies mentioned above in mice without CD38 mention lifespan or any behavioral problems that might be of concern. I can't tell from the link however since the first link mentioning mice lacking CD38 is broken.

 

Also what are the odds that something like this luteolinidin which that study says inhibits CD38 is also considered an antioxidant? Black sorghum bran is said to have more antioxidant concentration than blueberries.  I'm betting they sell that at Whole Foods for all the gluten free people. I wonder what it tastes like or if anyone makes good stuff worth eating with it.


Edited by Nate-2004, 15 June 2016 - 02:49 AM.


#629 normalizing

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 02:22 AM

hebbeh cyanidin and other anthocyanidins have extremely low bio-availability if any, few studies pointed to complete clearance in urine unchanged. studies on blueberries are highly questionable as most of them claim dangerious ideas of preventing and even curing alzheimers, but to this day we dont even know exactly what causes it and how to exactly cure it. marketing at best


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#630 Bryan_S

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 03:06 AM

Wow, that's fascinating, Brian -- does anyone have an idea of what this CD38 enzyme does, or anything more about it? I assume future therapies would perhaps target that mechanism, instead of simply boosting NAD?

 

Still digesting the paper but I believe you are right.

 

"Here we show for the first time that CD38 plays an active role in the age-related NAD decline in mammals. NAD levels, mitochondrial respiratory rates, and metabolic functions are preserved during the aging process in CD38KO mice. (KO knock out mice where the gene was deleted) We further identified that CD38 is the main enzyme metabolizing the NAD precursor NMN in vivo, and demonstrated that ablation of CD38 improves the response to NAD-replacement therapy during aging. We believe that these findings may lead to new strategies for the treatment of diseases related to an imbalance in NAD meta- bolism and energy homeostasis."

 

I think this is a step into identifying a cause, Not putting a damper on this, however as we have seen in many cases these are downstream indicators of something else. The CD38KO mice showed that eliminating this enzyme raised NAD levels. "Our data together show that CD38 protein and mRNA expression increase during aging in multiple tissues, and indicate that this enzyme could play a major role in age-related NAD decline." So suggestive. "Interestingly, when CD38 activity or protein expression was plotted against NAD+ decline in aging, an excellent inverse cor- relation coefficient was observed (r =  0.95 and r =  0.99, respectively; Figure S2B). These results indicate that an increase in CD38 protein expression and activity during aging could be the cause of the age-related NAD+ decrease." they go on to say; "Consistent with our hypothesis, we observed that although NAD+ levels declined significantly during chronological aging in all WT tissues, they were stable in CD38KO mice (Figures 2C– 2E)." So they make a strong argument.

 

CD38 Regulates Mitochondrial Function in Mammalian Tissues during Aging "First, we observed that the respiration-driving ATP synthesis decreases almost 70% in WT liver mitochondria (LM) during aging (Figure 3A), and this decrease correlated positively with the age-related decrease in NAD+ levels (r = 0.952; Figure S3A)" OK and "Oxygen consumption rates in LM were at least 2.5 times higher in all respiratory states in 1-year-old CD38KO mice compared to WT mice, irrespective of the substrate used (Figure 3B; Table S1). Similar results were also observed in mitochondria isolated from spleen of 1-year-old mice (Table S2)"

 

"NR is resistant to CD38 enzymatic activity in vitro (Figure 6A). However, since NR is converted to NMN (Bieganowski and Brenner, 2004; Grozio et al., 2013), it is still possible that CD38 may have a role in NR-mediated pharmacokinetics." Interesting "These results confirm that CD38 has the ability to in- fluence NAD+-replacement therapy in vivo. We propose that NAD replacement-based therapies with NMN and NR for meta- bolic dysfunction could be significantly improved by combina- tion with CD38 inhibitors."

 

So in conclusion NAD replacement therapy with precursors like (NR) and (NMN) could be enhanced with CD38 inhibitors. But they go on to ask another question; "A second important question concerns which cells in the tissue express CD38 during aging. Since CD38 is highly expressed in inflammatory cells, it is possible that the low-grade inflammation occurring during aging may lead to an increase in the expression of CD38 in inflammatory cells and accumulation of CD38-positive inflammatory cells in the tissue." So here is another target. There is still a number of questions to be asked but your premiss is correct but they are thinking NAD replacement therapy and CD38 inhibition.

 

http://www.cell.com/...4131(16)30224-8


Edited by Bryan_S, 15 June 2016 - 03:09 AM.

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nicotinamide riboside, nicotinamide, nad boosting, charles brenner, david sinclair, leonard guarente, niagen, niacinamide, nicotinamide mononucleotide

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