16 votes
Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:59 PM
As someone stated above, one wonders if they (Elysium) aren't talking to a supplier that is able to synthesize NR through a different process than the one Chromadex has patented. That would be the best outcome for consumers without a doubt.
Edited by Daniel Cooper, 09 January 2017 - 09:06 PM.
Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:07 PM
You need not go far to find similar (or worse) pricing on supplements.
A quick example, this place offers 27.5 lbs of Vitamin C for $159. That's 12473.79 grams.
Amazon has vendors selling 1000mg caps, 250/bottle for $10. And that's a fairly GOOD price!
Do the math...that's roughly 50 bottles or $500 retail for a common substance that cost's about $3.18 / 250g.
So, even for Vitamin C, more than a 300% markup to encapsulate and put in a bottle.
NR at $3/g is virtually the same markup from $1/g ($1000/kg)
Quite the deal or ripoff, depending on how you look at it.
I'd say not bad for a proprietary, non generic substance with the (purported) benefits of Niagen.
Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:34 PM
I would expect that the new method would have shown up in the IPR databaseAs someone stated above, one wonders if they (Elysium) aren't talking to a supplier that is able to synthesize NR through a different process than the one Chromadex has patented. That would be the best outcome for consumers without a doubt.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:08 AM
Edited by Vastmandana, 10 January 2017 - 12:15 AM.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:35 AM
Yes I missed a decimal point this give us little insight and its a flawed premiss. I see the CDXC stock is under some selling pressure as well.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:42 AM
I would expect that the new method would have shown up in the IPR databaseAs someone stated above, one wonders if they (Elysium) aren't talking to a supplier that is able to synthesize NR through a different process than the one Chromadex has patented. That would be the best outcome for consumers without a doubt.
The one that ETSI maintains? That database is not very comprehensive. I do not believe that filing for a U.S. or International patent would land you in that database automatically, at least not for some time.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:52 AM
And we still haven't heard one word from Elysium on this.
First, withholding payment to suppliers is far more common than some seem to think. Proctor & Gamble is one major company that is known to do this to its suppliers and ironically have a deal with Chromadex to buy NR.
As I wrote, Elysium is playing hardball but this isn't a game of chicken. I'm not sure to what extent if any this factors in, but Elysium knows Chromadex has a weakened reputation after the newsletter to short the stock was released in June.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:34 PM
Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:02 PM
No evidence suggests a tolerance but there is some evidence to suggest a diminishing returns but that evidence is turning out to be slightly inconsistent. Some shows after 300mg others show after 500mg. It could just vary depending on the body type and chemistry of the person taking it.
Nicotinamide Riboside is not a supplement as much as it is an augmentive. There's no such thing as an NR deficiency in the diet. A lot of things are mislabeled as supplements. NR is a precursor for NAD+ and is taken to replace lost NAD+ in older adults (probably starting over 35). This only covers this particular aspect of aging and for now it's probably just tiding us over till better senolytics become available. There are a few augmentives that could result in an increased tolerance, so far there is no evidence to suggest that NR is one of these.
I have not heard anything about elevating retinoic acid.
Edited by Nate-2004, 10 January 2017 - 03:05 PM.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:13 PM
All:
As someone stated above, one wonders if they (Elysium) aren't talking to a supplier that is able to synthesize NR through a different process than the one Chromadex has patented. That would be the best outcome for consumers without a doubt.
I submit to you that this hypothesis doesn't make any sense as an explanation for their behavior as alleged in the Chromadex filing (and again, I'm in no position to evaluate the truth or falsity of those claims). If Elysium had located an alternative supplier, they wouldn't be (as the claim alleges) trying to sneak in a large order at a massively-discounted price without being noticed, then coming back to the table to negotiate with Chromadex after getting "caught," agreeing to a price that is close to their original attempt (and close to their originally-agreed price), placing a massive order at that modestly-discounted price, and then trying to use the unpaid bill for that received order as a hostage to get more favorable terms post facto.
Rather, if they had an hypothetical much-cheaper alternative source, they'd've avoided all the risks and expense entailed in the above situation by just placing an order with their cheaper alternative supplier. Indeed, putting in a massive order with Chromadex would be doubly stupid if they had an alternative supplier: they'd not only be paying more than they had to, but having put in a huge order with CDXC, they would be unable to place additional orders with the mystery supplier, and would therefore not be in a good negotiating position with them, whether for a low price going forward or for exclusivity.
A kilogram is 1000 grams > $400 divided by 1000 grams = $.40 a gram not $4. But Chromadex is not selling at that price, rather somewhere between $800-$1000/kg, i.e., between $.80/g and $1/g.
Plenty of room for $3 NR.
agree, a 1 month supply can of 30 x 250mg = 7.5gram. Like I wrote earlier that's 7.5USD. Total product cost of the entire can probably 9USD. So yeah there is a lot of air in the pricing. With a sales price for a can of 40USD that means 40-9=31USD goes into the pockets of the distribution chain. Theoretically speaking that would mean if the NR price is zero and the capsules get filled with air the retail price would still be 32.5USD..............
As Oakman later pointed out, this line of thinking ignores the fact that it actually does cost money to encapsulate, bottle, and distribute the stuff. Note that Oakman's calculations if anything understate those bottling costs, since he's quoting vitamin C from a retailer selling the stuff in small bags; wholesale vitamin C in 50 kg drums would be cheaper still. I can tell you with certainty that there are many supplements on the market for which the raw ingredient cost is not even the plurality of the total manufacturing cost, leaving aside the profit they then embed in their wholesale cost and the markups and additional shipping and other costs further down the distribution chain.
I was looking to invest in Unity Biotechnology a couple of weeks ago but found they weren't public. One thing these companies could do is go public, I'm not sure what the downside of that for them
UNITY is an early, venture-stage company: they're in no position to go public yet. They might get enthusiastic support from the life extension community, but you can't base a realistic IPO on that, especially in biomedicine.
Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:49 PM
I was looking to invest in Unity Biotechnology a couple of weeks ago but found they weren't public. One thing these companies could do is go public, I'm not sure what the downside of that for them
UNITY is an early, venture-stage company: they're in no position to go public yet. They might get enthusiastic support from the life extension community, but you can't base a realistic IPO on that, especially in biomedicine.
I can understand that but then again getting venture capital for anything age related in biomedicine is difficult when the FDA doesn't recognize aging as a disease, so I don't see what the downside of going IPO is unless they lose a lot of money doing that. Kickstarter would be a good option.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:20 AM
Hi,
Quick question. Couldn't find a reliable answer anywhere.
*NR: does it elevate NAD+ in the body?
(Why is this a good thing? Can it be used for anabolic or just beneficial processes in the cells, e.g. in the liver?)
*Does supplementation with NR have dimishing returns?
Does it result in tolerance?
Which in my experience all supplements like it do.
I want to elevate NAD mainly for higher synthesis of Retinoic acid from Retinol via Retinol Dehydrogenase (uses NAD+ as a cofactor).
(I couldn't find a post where anyone actually referenced a product they got a good effect from.
Mostly theoretical talk with references to literature/rat studies or whatever.)
"Quick question" No such thing, it elevates NAD, yes it uses oxygen, yes its energy helps build other molecules, it is used as an exclusive energy source by NAD consuming enzymes and it is used to "efficiently" produce ATP, no diminishing returns have been documented or observed. (one underfunded greek rat study tried to demonstrate muscle weakness but has been largely ignored) Just start on the first page.
This thread is rich in answers you didn't know you had questions about. You can also check out an earlier version of this thread Nicotinamide Riboside Current News and Updates. What you'll find is here, on these threads is you need to reference your opinions with study links, so you'll find information about raising NAD thoughout this thread with either animal or human studies. So bottom line NR simply skips some steps in the building of the NAD molecule, so it saves time and energy and raises NAD levels higher than simple B3 can.
While animal studies are breaking new ground the human clinical trials are confirming what's been suspected. Higher NAD levels thru supplementation helps offset the diminishing NAD levels caused by increasing PARP and CD38 consumption as we grow older. Its also being looked at to diminish TBI in concussion prone sports like football.
I will also tell you there are readers here who are taking the straight Niacin and Nicotinamide paths for NAD repletion. Nicotinamide has already been shown to reduce skin cancers and its less efficient than NR. Yes less efficient! So falling NAD with age is a given and cell deterioration is directly related to NAD consuming enzymes for repair.
For now supplementation is the most direct path to increase levels. There are other approaches but none have been shown to increase NAD more than taking a NAD precursor like NR or NMN. Hopefully new discoveries that offset CD38's NAD consumption might help fight the problem but those approaches are just now emerging.
As always JMHO
Edited by Bryan_S, 11 January 2017 - 12:34 AM.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:30 AM
Critics Blast Star-Studded Advisory Board of Anti-Aging Company
Nobel Prize winners lend their faces, credibility, to supplement maker Elysium’s advertising campaign.
by Karen Weintraub
January 6, 2017
Critics are assailing seven Nobel Prize winners and two dozen other high-profile scientists for lending their names and images to [Elysium] a New York supplement company selling ... a nutritional supplement called Basis whose ingredients can extend the life span of mice. [Sic: no evidence for the combination or for pterostilbene alone; evidence for NR ambiguous -MR].
Since there’s no proof the supplement pills can do the same for people, Elysium can’t legally say that. And that’s where Elysium’s unusually long list of 35 “scientific advisors,” including the Nobel laureates, may come in. By lending their immense credentials to the company, they are in effect being used to boost sales of what could be a placebo, critics say.“Some of these people may think that they’re being asked to do this because of their deep insights,” says former Harvard Medical School dean Jeffrey Flier, an expert in metabolism. “That’s the part that’s a joke. They're not. They are part of a marketing scheme where their names and reputations are being used.” ... On Twitter, some scientists have put pressure on advisors to resign, and last month one published an open letter arguing that the board members were being exploited. ... Some advisers have already concluded they were just window dressing. Arnold Kriegstein, who studies brain development at the University of California, San Francisco, who is one of three Elysium advisors who have stepped down from the board, said he felt his scientific input wasn’t needed....
Several of Elysium’s scientific advisory board members said their involvement should not be seen as an endorsement of the company or its pills. “The SAB [scientific advisory board] does NOT endorse the products of Elysium. Its sole role is to advise Elysium on the development and testing of its compounds,” Thomas C. Südhof, a Stanford University neurophysiologist who won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, and who serves on Elysium’s board, writes in an e-mail.....the real promise of the pill is life extension based on the latest scientific discoveries in cells and animal research, an impression only enhanced by the huge roster of famous names, far more than the half-dozen science advisors most biotech companies rely on.
high-profile boards can also sometimes give a company credibility it doesn't deserve. Blood-testing outfit Theranos ... used board members like former secretary of state Henry Kissinger to inflate its stature.
Elysium declined to say how much it is paying its advisory board members, but noted that not all are compensated. Church says in exchange for joining the advisory board he received 0.5 percent of the company’s shares. He has attended one face-to-face meeting with company officials, he says, and had several exchanges by phone and e-mail. He called the workload typical of an advisory role. ...
The company's idea is that it can then use profits to follow up with scientific studies of the pill's effects on humans. "We wanted to take the fastest route to test the compounds and determine whether they would improve human health," Guarente says. “We intend to really make this company be based on rigorous science." ... By performing research on a product it already sells, Teytelman, who completed a postdoc at MIT a few floors away from the Guarente lab, thinks Elysium has created a conflict of interest. If the results are negative, “are they just going to shut it down?” he asks. “When you rush to sell something to the consumer with the promise of running the trial, that seems backward.”
Some advisors say Elysium’s effort to put more science behind Basis is laudable and could cause other supplement makers to follow suit. “I’d like to see every company ... be held to the kind of standards that we hold drugs to,” says James Kirkland, [who did the first work on senolytic drugs —MR] and who has advised Elysium on how to run its clinical trial.Others are also hopeful that Basis really will work to slow aging. According to Dariush Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and epidemiologist at Tufts University, who joined Elysium’s advisory board in 2015, “the evidence behind the concept from animal and experimental models is actually very compelling.” Although Mozaffarian says it’s still too early to know whether Basis will work, he takes it himself when he remembers to—roughly every other day.
.
Edited by Michael, 11 January 2017 - 03:30 AM.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:11 AM
Critics Blast Star-Studded Advisory Board of Anti-Aging Company
Nobel Prize winners lend their faces, credibility, to supplement maker Elysium’s advertising campaign.
by Karen Weintraub
January 6, 2017
Critics are assailing seven Nobel Prize winners and two dozen other high-profile scientists for lending their names and images to [Elysium] a New York supplement company selling ... a nutritional supplement called Basis whose ingredients can extend the life span of mice. [Sic: no evidence for the combination or for pterostilbene alone; evidence for NR ambiguous -MR].
Since there’s no proof the supplement pills can do the same for people, Elysium can’t legally say that. And that’s where Elysium’s unusually long list of 35 “scientific advisors,” including the Nobel laureates, may come in. By lending their immense credentials to the company, they are in effect being used to boost sales of what could be a placebo, critics say.“Some of these people may think that they’re being asked to do this because of their deep insights,” says former Harvard Medical School dean Jeffrey Flier, an expert in metabolism. “That’s the part that’s a joke. They're not. They are part of a marketing scheme where their names and reputations are being used.” ... On Twitter, some scientists have put pressure on advisors to resign, and last month one published an open letter arguing that the board members were being exploited. ... Some advisers have already concluded they were just window dressing. Arnold Kriegstein, who studies brain development at the University of California, San Francisco, who is one of three Elysium advisors who have stepped down from the board, said he felt his scientific input wasn’t needed....
Several of Elysium’s scientific advisory board members said their involvement should not be seen as an endorsement of the company or its pills. “The SAB [scientific advisory board] does NOT endorse the products of Elysium. Its sole role is to advise Elysium on the development and testing of its compounds,” Thomas C. Südhof, a Stanford University neurophysiologist who won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, and who serves on Elysium’s board, writes in an e-mail.....the real promise of the pill is life extension based on the latest scientific discoveries in cells and animal research, an impression only enhanced by the huge roster of famous names, far more than the half-dozen science advisors most biotech companies rely on.
high-profile boards can also sometimes give a company credibility it doesn't deserve. Blood-testing outfit Theranos ... used board members like former secretary of state Henry Kissinger to inflate its stature.
Elysium declined to say how much it is paying its advisory board members, but noted that not all are compensated. Church says in exchange for joining the advisory board he received 0.5 percent of the company’s shares. He has attended one face-to-face meeting with company officials, he says, and had several exchanges by phone and e-mail. He called the workload typical of an advisory role. ...
The company's idea is that it can then use profits to follow up with scientific studies of the pill's effects on humans. "We wanted to take the fastest route to test the compounds and determine whether they would improve human health," Guarente says. “We intend to really make this company be based on rigorous science." ... By performing research on a product it already sells, Teytelman, who completed a postdoc at MIT a few floors away from the Guarente lab, thinks Elysium has created a conflict of interest. If the results are negative, “are they just going to shut it down?” he asks. “When you rush to sell something to the consumer with the promise of running the trial, that seems backward.”
Some advisors say Elysium’s effort to put more science behind Basis is laudable and could cause other supplement makers to follow suit. “I’d like to see every company ... be held to the kind of standards that we hold drugs to,” says James Kirkland, [who did the first work on senolytic drugs —MR] and who has advised Elysium on how to run its clinical trial.Others are also hopeful that Basis really will work to slow aging. According to Dariush Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and epidemiologist at Tufts University, who joined Elysium’s advisory board in 2015, “the evidence behind the concept from animal and experimental models is actually very compelling.” Although Mozaffarian says it’s still too early to know whether Basis will work, he takes it himself when he remembers to—roughly every other day.
.
Their is plenty of other science out there to back up claims for NR, focusing totally on this Elysium article is a mistake. It all but states that Elysium are the only people marketing NR...We have page upon page here with links to a huge database on NR research.
IMO they started selling it because they already know the advantages are pretty much certain and the compound has proven to be safe, Elysium are doing nothing more than the rest of the company's that have brought NR to market....All Elysium are trying to do is get an edge on the market, I for one have every confidence in NR, that confidence comes from three years of reading everything and anything I can find on the subject.....And Lenny Guarente is right up there when it comes to NR research...
This is just business BS in my mind, and it has no effect on my views on NR....
Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:20 AM
Here are parts of the article above, including a strong argument by George Church, that were left off:
Current Elysium advisors reached by MIT Technology Review defended their roles and what they consider the company’s innovative business plan. “I think it’s willing to do science in a field that doesn’t require it,” says geneticist George Church of Harvard Medical School, who became an advisor last month. “My experience is once you get a certain number of good scientists on the SAB, it’s really very hard for the company to misbehave.”
Elysium was co-founded two years ago by MIT professor Leonard Guarente, a prominent anti-aging researcher who studies genes called sirtuins that his team and others have shown can extend the life of laboratory organisms. Proving whether such discoveries will help people is a difficult task that could take years. But since sirtuins can be activated by molecules already widely sold as supplements, Guarente decided to help create Elysium and offer his own supplement mixture.
The New York company has started to make good on its promise to back Basis with clinical research. In December, it issued a press release announcing results from its first clinical trial, in which 120 people ages 60 to 80 took either a placebo or a regular or double dose of the Basis pill for eight weeks. The main finding was that the supplement was safe and biologically active in their bloodstreams, meaning it wasn’t simply being flushed out.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:44 AM
Edited by Vastmandana, 11 January 2017 - 06:49 AM.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:19 AM
Apparently ChromaDex has a minimum price they want suppliers to charge if this report is true. It makes sense that you would not want your suppliers to drive the price so low that companies (Elysium and others) don't have an incentive to advertise.
UPDATE: Prohealth had to increase the price of NAD+Ignite by $5.00 because of concerns by the manufacturer that the low price would undermine the perceived value of the Naigen. Nonethless, you would still pay half of what Basis costs, including the bottle of Pterostilbene.
http://www.garmaonhe...ths-nad-ignite/
Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:44 PM
The Science underlying NR is exploding and well documented by Bryan and others in this/the original threads...
So parts of this story are pure garbage. Similar to the "seeking alpha" stock hack that conflaited financial issues with blather about NR just being expensive niacin... That shit just pisses me off. Science... Vs business... Really sucks. Something seems afoot here and it doesn't seem to have science in its loving embrace..
Would love to know what's really going on btw basis/chromedex... But using this to attack or dismiss the science is weird.
And just to add to that, one thing that seems to be slipping below the radar here is, yes, you guessed it...Big Pharma.
NR is there worst nightmare if it does what it says it does, a natural product that cant be patented that does the job of probably hundreds of very expensive patented products.....any negative publicity about NR would certainly be to their advantage.
Nature probably holds the answer to a whole host of things and Big Pharma are not happy!
Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:08 PM
Veering away from the business side of things: the ProHealth spokesman says that his NR is orange/yellowish because it stays close to the original product. Clearly he wants to imply that his competitors performs some sort of whitening action on NR. If so, do we know what whitening method that could be?
Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:30 PM
The Science underlying NR is exploding and well documented by Bryan and others in this/the original threads...
So parts of this story are pure garbage. Similar to the "seeking alpha" stock hack that conflaited financial issues with blather about NR just being expensive niacin... That shit just pisses me off. Science... Vs business... Really sucks. Something seems afoot here and it doesn't seem to have science in its loving embrace..
Would love to know what's really going on btw basis/chromedex... But using this to attack or dismiss the science is weird.
And just to add to that, one thing that seems to be slipping below the radar here is, yes, you guessed it...Big Pharma.
NR is there worst nightmare if it does what it says it does, a natural product that cant be patented that does the job of probably hundreds of very expensive patented products.....any negative publicity about NR would certainly be to their advantage.
Nature probably holds the answer to a whole host of things and Big Pharma are not happy!
A: NR is patented by Dartmouth and licensed to Chromadex.
B: I hate the patent system.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:30 PM
A couple of you folks are jumping to conclusions. To be clear, I don't take Elysium's (mis)use of its SAB or marketing practices to say anything in particular about the merits of the science on NR — how could it?
A supplement like NR — which certainly has a much stronger scientific case behind it than >90% of the garbage out there on the "anti-aging" supplement market, and an even higher percentage of the supplement market as a whole — could be responsibly marketed on that basis alone, without the hype and manipulative sales models used to sell prior magic pills. Instead, it seems, it just raises the floor, and the hype proceeds upward even further from there. It's actually surprising to me that (a) NR remains a niche product, tho' that is at least partially due to its high cost, while all kinds of other crap is widely promoted with zero science to speak of, and (b) that it seems if anything to be disproportionately attracting companies with dubious marketing and sales models (and Elysium is far from the worst — just the loudest), when you might expect it to attract the most responsible actors for that very reason.
Veering away from the business side of things: the ProHealth spokesman says that his NR is orange/yellowish because it stays close to the original product. Clearly he wants to imply that his competitors performs some sort of whitening action on NR. If so, do we know what whitening method that could be?
The raw ingredient spec sheet says it is "White to light brown." Their product has a higher milligram dose and thus less excipient than most products in a similar-sized capsule, which will tend to make for a browner product, particularly in products using microcrystalline cellulose, white rice flour, or other white-colored excipients.
Edited by Michael, 11 January 2017 - 05:31 PM.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:10 PM
A: NR is patented by Dartmouth and licensed to Chromadex.
B: I hate the patent system.
I'm think you will find it actually isn't NR that's patented it's the process for manufacture and use of that's patented.. and not NR itself...
http://www.patentgen...nt/8197807.html
http://www.patentgen...nt/8114626.html
Edited by midas, 11 January 2017 - 06:13 PM.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:19 PM
And just to add to that, one thing that seems to be slipping below the radar here is, yes, you guessed it...Big Pharma.
NR is there worst nightmare if it does what it says it does, a natural product that cant be patented that does the job of probably hundreds of very expensive patented products.....any negative publicity about NR would certainly be to their advantage.
Nature probably holds the answer to a whole host of things and Big Pharma are not happy!
I have been split on this for a decade after reading the results of David Sinclair's mouse study with resveratrol.The pharmaceuticals might not be happy but only for a relatively short time frame. From what I've read, NR might 1) help control blood pressure 2) help keep glucose levels down/normal 3) help stave off and reduce mild dementia.
The first two would be a substitute for pills like statins, beta blockers , etc, but they have been available generically for a long time and can be cheaper than NR from what I've seen.
If NR helped against dementia, that could be potentially huge, but I think only in the short run as the pharmaceuticals would try to make a more potent version. I think within a few years NR, pterostilbine and other supplements will no longer be taken as new technology advances. I don't know if that is closer to three years or ten years, though.
As for Elysium, they are actually running controlled trials that apart from Chromadex I don't see other vendors conducting. (I forgot that there is Longevenix with eye trials, and I might not know of others). I have always thought it has been great news that the Nobel laureates are convinced enough by NR and/or the model of running trials on all of their products, to help on a science advisory board. As George Church said in the article linked above, it also helps keep companies on the straight and narrow.
Edited by bluemoon, 11 January 2017 - 06:27 PM.
Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:34 PM
And just to add to that, one thing that seems to be slipping below the radar here is, yes, you guessed it...Big Pharma.
NR is there worst nightmare if it does what it says it does, a natural product that cant be patented that does the job of probably hundreds of very expensive patented products.....any negative publicity about NR would certainly be to their advantage.
Nature probably holds the answer to a whole host of things and Big Pharma are not happy!
I have been split on this for a decade after reading the results of David Sinclair's mouse study with r esveratrol.The pharmaceuticals might not be happy but only for a relatively short time frame. From what I've read, NR might 1) help control blood pressure 2) help keep glucose levels down/normal 3) help stave off and reduce mild dementia.
The first two would be a substitute for pills like statins, beta blockers , etc, but they have been available generically for a long time and can be cheaper than NR from what I've seen.
If NR helped against dementia, that could be potentially huge, but I think only in the short run as the pharmaceuticals would try to make a more potent version. I think within a few years NR, pterostilbine and other supplements will no longer be taken as new technology advances. I don't know if that is closer to three years or ten years, though.
As for Elysium, they are actually running controlled trials that apart from Chromadex I don't see conducting. I have always thought it has been great news that the Nobel laureates are convinced enough by NR and/or the model of running trials on all of their products, to help on a science advisory board. As George Church said in the article linked above, it also helps keep companies on the straight and narrow.
NR has also shown a great deal of promise in, muscle, heart and liver issues along with pretty much anything that is age related or possibly due to a NAD deficiency of which they think their are many.....Throughout this thread there are links to NR research on all sorts of different medical issues that have shown promise...Which would encompass a wide range of expensive pharmaceutical drugs being made redundant if NR turns out to be what we all hope it is....
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