To be clear, though: you're not aware of any actual science supporting that nasal or i.v. NAD+ works at all, let alone better than oral NR, yes? This is all the claims of the producer and some largely anonymous testimonials — right? As has already been pointed out, most studies indicate that NAD+ is degraded into NMN and thence NR before it is taken up by cells.
Yes NAD+ is degraded into NR and NR is taken in and converted to NMN and then to NAD+. ... It will be converted to NR at the cell membrane. To me what's the point of using a more expensive alternative, right? The biggest NAD precursor molecule to get thru the cell membrane is NR, anything bigger gets reduced.
(FWIW, it's not just NAD+'s size, but also its phosphorylation, which is generally thought to exclude all pyridine nucleotides from the cell and also keeps NMN out before dephosphorylation to NR).
Second, a friend has started to take 250 mg of a chewable NR tablet. He had been taking NAD sublingually until I convinced him to switch to NR. Is there evidence that chewable tablets of 250 mg of NR raises NAD more than capsules?
None at all AFAIK, and no plausible reason to think so.
Stability analyses showed that when Niagen was dissolved in water, NR was stable up to 6 h at room temperature and 7 days at 2–8 C. If you mix NR with water it isn't going to last very long, you can read the link.
Again, these people are evidently hawking IV NAD+ proper, not NR. IAC, FWIW, there's evidence that NR isn't quite that labile (which is not to say that I think there's any value whatsoever in these liquid products). Brenner reports that NR is largely stable for 8 h in water at pH 7, and several studies have reported positive effects administering NR in mice via the drinking water when kept in foil-covered bottles and changed every week or every 2-3 days.
That said, I'd be surprised if some compounding pharmacy were making a genuinely shelf-stable nasal or IV product, and would think it foolish to use such without evidence of stability – and, more importantly, at a minimum, that it has some pharmacokinetic improvement over (cheaper, more convenient, and in the case of IV, less risky) oral pills.
hazy said: sign me up for the nasal spray products, either NR or straight NAD, keep updates and share sources 
I think you should sign up for a class in critical thinking ...
Journey 2016 said: As i say ive been told from clinics that offer iv nad treatments that the nasal version is new and is giving much better results than oral NR, i will update you when ive tested it out this week.
OK, you've been told that — but again, zero actual evidence to back it up, yes? Again: This is all medical anecdotes from parties with a vested interest in the stuff, correct? As has already been pointed out, most studies indicate that NAD+ is degraded into NMN and thence NR before it is taken up by cells.
Nate 2004 said: UGH, it really exasperates me when people lump things into this category called "supplements" and then throw the baby out with the bathwater. ...
Here's the logic of guys like Dr. Jeffrey Flier: Supplements don't work > NR is sold as a supplement > Therefore it won't work.
He never says or implies anything remotely approximating that:
"There is no evidence whatsoever that [Basis] produces health benefits in humans," says Dr. Jeffrey Flier ... "Many molecules that have some apparent benefits in mice or other organisms have no benefit when studied in humans."
The company has seven Nobel Prize--winning scientists on its advisory board, a fact that has also raised some eyebrows. Flier cautions that the company's association with lauded researchers cannot replace the science required to prove that the supplements combat aging and are safe to use.
He doesn't even say it doesn't work: just that there's no evidence it produces benefits in humans, which is true. (No, "it raises NAD+ in the blood" is not a health benefit). So far, there's evidence of benefit in mice, including a lot of studies in mice with a variety of mutations affecting bioenergetics — many of them with strains of C57Bl/6 mice carrying the Nnt mutation. I'm now quite unclear if there is any evidence of it producing benefits in mice or other mammals without such mutations. That might explain, for instance, why "The NAD+ precursor nicotinamide riboside decreases exercise performance in rats," even though it's been reported to improve exercise performance mice in a couple of mouse studies – at least one of those being the Canto and Auwerx study, which used (obese, diabetic) mice bearing the Nnt mutation.
Nate 2004 said: Also he states that there is no evidence that it produces health benefits in humans. I'm pretty sure there is *some* evidence, I've seen a number of study results posted in this thread that say otherwise. Perhaps it's not anywhere as robust and established as it ideally could be, yet, but to say there is *no* evidence is to be a cynical denier.
I'm not aware of any evidence showing human health benefits whatsoever. Can
Nate 2004 said: NR is not technically a "supplement".
Sure it is: it's more clearly a dietary supplement than (say) nearly all herbal extracts. The term as coined by the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act refers to "a product (other than tobacco) intended to supplement the diet that bears or contains one or more of the following dietary ingredients: (A) a vitamin; (B) a mineral; © an herb or other botanical; (D) an amino acid; (E) a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total dietary intake; or (F) a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extract, or combination of any [of the above]".
A dietary supplement is just that: a supplementary quantum of some molecule found in the diet, just like food stamps are a "supplementary nutrition" program and the EITC is a "supplementary income" program. You get some B12 in the diet; you supplement this dietary B12 with B12 in a pill, so B12 pills are dietary supplements. There's no modafinil in the diet, so it's modafinil is not a dietary supplement, no matter what some vendors might say. NR (a) is found in the diet, and (b) is a vitamin (a form of B3, alongside niacin, niacinamide, and NMN). Pills containing NR are dietary supplements, QED.
Edited by Michael, 23 February 2017 - 07:58 PM.
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