2255 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

Hi. I'm interested what you think about a liposomal Nicotinamide Riboside ? Good, bad ? Same effects ? Because ActiNovo plans to sell it soon. And i think i will be one of the first to buy it.  

 

Liposomal NR? No idea what that is.

[Journey2016]

Hi. I'm interested what you think about a liposomal Nicotinamide Riboside ? Good, bad ? Same effects ? Because ActiNovo plans to sell it soon. And i think i will be one of the first to buy it.

I always considered this , do you have any links or info to show Actinovo plans to sell this?

Im currently trailing NAD nasal spray and am having really good reaults so far.. the biggest being welbeing and stress levels seem very low.. along with small random hair groth.. this nad nasal spray is also being marketed as a hairloss product.. somthing todo with activting sirt1 .:

Ill do a review in a few weeks.

Edited by Journey2016, 29 March 2017 - 07:04 PM.

[Florian E.]

 

Hi. I'm interested what you think about a liposomal Nicotinamide Riboside ? Good, bad ? Same effects ? Because ActiNovo plans to sell it soon. And i think i will be one of the first to buy it.

I always considered this , do you have any links or info to show Actinovo plans to sell this?

Im currently trailing NAD nasal spray and am having really good reaults so far.. the biggest being welbeing and stress levels seem very low.. along with small random hair groth.. this nad nasal spray is also being marketed as a hairloss product.. somthing todo with activting sirt1 .:

Ill do a review in a few weeks.

 

 

I asked them a question via email, and also asked if they plan to offer NR soon. And got reply that liposomal NR is on their wishlist for (hopefully) this year. (And also liposomal rapamycin is planned, but later)

 

What nasal NAD are you using ?

Edited by Florian E., 29 March 2017 - 07:35 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Hi. I'm interested what you think about a liposomal Nicotinamide Riboside ? Good, bad ? Same effects ? Because ActiNovo plans to sell it soon. And i think i will be one of the first to buy it.  

 

Keep in mind encapsulating NR in a Biopolymer coating to delay release likely won't come cheap with small production runs. Plus there will be challenges to creating small spears of NR to be coated. If it were easy or inexpensive everyone would be doing it. We'll see what kind of price they attach to their product and how soon it will reach market. 

[Florian E.]

 

Hi. I'm interested what you think about a liposomal Nicotinamide Riboside ? Good, bad ? Same effects ? Because ActiNovo plans to sell it soon. And i think i will be one of the first to buy it.  

 

Keep in mind encapsulating NR in a Biopolymer coating to delay release likely won't come cheap with small production runs. Plus there will be challenges to creating small spears of NR to be coated. If it were easy or inexpensive everyone would be doing it. We'll see what kind of price they attach to their product and how soon it will reach market. 

 

 

On their site they claim: "By developing and enhancing a process to manufacture liposomal forumlations we now have a technology in our hands that allows to produce virtually all interesting dietary supplements with a significantly higher efficiency"

But of course, let's first wait and see...

 

Anyway, i found no study or anything else that someone has ever tried or used lipsomal NR. Only studies about lipsomal Q10 and liposomal NAD+.

But i guess that liposomal NAD+ would not trigger the same effects (like SIRT1 activation) as NR, right ?

 

EDIT:

According to this study, increased NAD+  is the main factor for sirt1 activitiy -> https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3616312/

And according to this study NAD+/NADH level was increased to about 85% of the control value with liposomal NAD+ -> https://ccforum.biom.../10.1186/cc1824

 

 

 

 

Edited by Florian E., 30 March 2017 - 06:05 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

Why they don't include NR for comparison in the following paper? It seems like NMN indeed very effective in treating Alzheimer's Disease at least in mice. I'm taking NR now, probably it explains why my mental faculty is lot more better, better short term memory, mind can stay focus and even sharper sensory feedback on my face, because NR is improving the cognitive substantially.

 

Nicotinamide mononucleotide inhibits JNK activation to reverse Alzheimer disease

 

Authors: Zhiwen Yao, Wenhao Yang, Zhiqiang Gao, Peng Jia

 

In summary, this study provides essential preclinical evidences that NMN takes effects in

reversing cognitive deficits and substantially lowering the burden of amyloid plaque,

neuroinflammation, cerebral amyloid-β concentrations, and loss of synapse in middle-aged ADTg

mice, at least partially by the inhibition of JNK activation. According to our findings, NMN

could be a new target for disease-modifying treatments of AD.

 

 

 

 

Edited by soulprogrammer, 31 March 2017 - 02:06 AM.

[soulprogrammer]

Is this paper already mentioned here? Looks like there is an optimum dosage for NR. Why there never include control in this study???

 

Effects of a wide range of dietary nicotinamide riboside (NR) concentrations on metabolic flexibility and white adipose tissue (WAT) of mice fed a mildly obesogenic diet

 

Wenbiao Shi1 , Maria A. Hegeman1 , Dorien A.M. van Dartel1 , Jing Tang1,4 , Manuel Suarez2 , Hans Swarts1 , Bart van der Hee1 , Lluis Arola2,3 and Jaap Keijer1,

 

 

 

Scope: Metabolic flexibility is the ability to switch metabolism between carbohydrate oxidation (CHO) and fatty acid oxidation (FAO) and is a biomarker for metabolic health. The effect on metabolic health of nicotinamide riboside (NR) as an exclusive source of vitamin B3 is unknown and is examined here for a wide range of NR. Design and methods: Nine-week-old male C57BL/6JRcc mice received a semi-purified mildly obesogenic (40 en% fat) diet containing 0.14% L-tryptophan and either 5, 15, 30, 180 or 900 mg NR per kg diet for 15 weeks. Body composition and metabolic parameters were analysed. Metabolic flexibility was measured using indirect calorimetry. Gene expression in epididymal white adipose tissue (eWAT) was measured using qRT-PCR . Results: The maximum delta respiratory exchange ratio when switching from CHO to FAO (maxΔRERCHO1→FAO) and when switching from FAO to CHO (maxΔRERFAO→CHO2) were largest in 30 mg NR per kg diet (30NR). In eWAT, the gene expression of Pparγ, a master regulator of adipogenesis, and of Sod2 and Prdx3, two antioxidant genes, were significantly upregulated in 30NR compared to 5NR.

 

Conclusion: 30NR is most beneficial for metabolic health, in terms of metabolic flexibility and eWAT gene expression, of mice on an obesogenic diet.

 

 

Edited by soulprogrammer, 31 March 2017 - 10:07 AM.

[DareDevil]

http://www.dailymail...popularity.html

 

This article mentions the following clinic with administers NAD+ to your bloodstream by IV infusion:

 

http://www.bionad.co.uk/nad-faq.html

 

I hadn't seen injectable NAD+ powder available online, but I doubt this clinic makes it themselves. I expect it could just as easily be injected IM if not subQ and due to the high cost of NAD+ this might be the ticket?

 

DareDevil

[Harkijn]

Is this paper already mentioned here? Looks like there is an optimum dosage for NR. Why there never include control in this study???

 

Effects of a wide range of dietary nicotinamide riboside (NR) concentrations on metabolic flexibility and white adipose tissue (WAT) of mice fed a mildly obesogenic diet

 

Wenbiao Shi1 , Maria A. Hegeman1 , Dorien A.M. van Dartel1 , Jing Tang1,4 , Manuel Suarez2 , Hans Swarts1 , Bart van der Hee1 , Lluis Arola2,3 and Jaap Keijer1,

 

 

 

Scope: Metabolic flexibility is the ability to switch metabolism between carbohydrate oxidation (CHO) and fatty acid oxidation (FAO) and is a biomarker for metabolic health. The effect on metabolic health of nicotinamide riboside (NR) as an exclusive source of vitamin B3 is unknown and is examined here for a wide range of NR. Design and methods: Nine-week-old male C57BL/6JRcc mice received a semi-purified mildly obesogenic (40 en% fat) diet containing 0.14% L-tryptophan and either 5, 15, 30, 180 or 900 mg NR per kg diet for 15 weeks. Body composition and metabolic parameters were analysed. Metabolic flexibility was measured using indirect calorimetry. Gene expression in epididymal white adipose tissue (eWAT) was measured using qRT-PCR . Results: The maximum delta respiratory exchange ratio when switching from CHO to FAO (maxΔRERCHO1→FAO) and when switching from FAO to CHO (maxΔRERFAO→CHO2) were largest in 30 mg NR per kg diet (30NR). In eWAT, the gene expression of Pparγ, a master regulator of adipogenesis, and of Sod2 and Prdx3, two antioxidant genes, were significantly upregulated in 30NR compared to 5NR.

 

Conclusion: 30NR is most beneficial for metabolic health, in terms of metabolic flexibility and eWAT gene expression, of mice on an obesogenic diet.

This paper was pointed to in post # 1819.

[MikeDC]

http://www.dailymail...popularity.html

This article mentions the following clinic with administers NAD+ to your bloodstream by IV infusion:

http://www.bionad.co.uk/nad-faq.html

I hadn't seen injectable NAD+ powder available online, but I doubt this clinic makes it themselves. I expect it could just as easily be injected IM if not subQ and due to the high cost of NAD+ this might be the ticket?

DareDevil

Who has the reference that NAD+ can't enter cells?

[soulprogrammer]

"Who has the reference that NAD+ can't enter cells? "

 

 

Given that NAD+ or NADH cannot diffuse through membranes (van Roermund et al., 1995), the maintenance of NAD+ levels in each compartment is reliant on salvaging the NAM produced by NAD+-consuming enzymes

 

Ref

van Roermund CW, Elgersma Y, Singh N, Wanders RJ, Tabak HF. The membrane of peroxisomes in Saccharomyces cerevisiae is impermeable to NAD(H) and acetyl-CoA under in vivo conditions. EMBO J. 1995;14:3480–3486.

 

 

 

 

How about this paper? Already mentioned?

Nicotinamide Phosphoribosyltransferase in Smooth Muscle Cells Maintains Genome Integrity, Resists Aortic Medial Degeneration and Is Suppressed in Human Thoracic Aortic Aneurysm Disease

 

Alanna Watson, Zengxuan Nong, Hao Yin, Caroline O'Neil, Stephanie Fox, Brittany Balint, Ray Guo, Oberdan Leo, Michael W Chu, Robert Gros, J G Pickering

Edited by soulprogrammer, 31 March 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[MikeDC]

peroxisomes are inside cells.

[Florian E.]

http://www.dailymail...popularity.html

 

This article mentions the following clinic with administers NAD+ to your bloodstream by IV infusion:

 

http://www.bionad.co.uk/nad-faq.html

 

I hadn't seen injectable NAD+ powder available online, but I doubt this clinic makes it themselves. I expect it could just as easily be injected IM if not subQ and due to the high cost of NAD+ this might be the ticket?

 

DareDevil

 

Also couldn't find an online shop that offers NAD+ IV infusions.

 

You can go to a drip clinic an get some vitamin infusions with NAD+. Like this: http://www.nutridrip.com/nutriyouth

But i'm more interested in a DIY solution... So if anybody knows an online shop that offers NAD+ infusions (or vitamin mix infusions with NAD+), you're very welcome !

 

And (as compromise solution) i asked myself how much a Niacin IV infusion would increase NAD+ levels.

According to this study NAD+ was raised from 100% (control) to 250% (with niacin infusion) -> https://www.google.c...tents/US8173677  (Figure 2C: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US8173677B2/US08173677-20120508-D00004.png)

 

Edited by Florian E., 31 March 2017 - 03:03 PM.

[Harkijn]

Why not  start a separate NAD+ IV vendor topic? There is almost certainly going to be much future interest for it.

[Bryan_S]

NAD+ IV it would be extremely expensive and why do it? NAD is a rather large molecule that will have to be reduced to NR at the cell membrane anyway. Here is an oversimplification, "any NAD precursor molecule bigger than NR must be reduced." I know that is way oversimplified. There is no problem with Niacin, Nicotinamide and Nicotinamide Riboside. Anything larger gets reduced like NMN, NAD, NADH. This is from an IV standpoint with no digestion where the cell membrane is the last barrier.

 

See Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions

 

J. Ratajczak, M. Joffraud, S.A.J. Trammell, R. Ras, N. Canela, M. Boutant, S.S. Kulkarni, M. Rodrigues, P. Redpath, M.E. Migaud, J. Auwerx, O. Yanes, C. Brenner & C. Canto, "NRK1 controls nicotinamide mononucleotide and nicotinamide riboside metabolism in mammalian cells." Nature Communications. v. 7, pp. 13103. DOI: 10.1038/ncomms13103. Download pdf reprint.

 

From an oral standpoint NAD and NADH get reduced in the digestive tract. So the best one might expect is from NAD is (NAM) "Nicotinamide" and in the experiment NADH broke down altogether.

 

"NADH is unstable in acidic conditions, while NAD is stable (4). Gross and Henderson (1) revealed that NAD is efficiently digested in the small intestinal tract, producing Nam that is transported into the blood and distributed to various tissues."

 

they went on to say: "NAD given orally increased urinary excretion of Nam (Fig. 4) and its metabolites in a manner similar to that found when NAD was intraperitoneally administered (Fig. 3). NAD -induced elevation of the urinary excretion was also similar to that caused by oral (Fig. 4) or intraperitoneal (Fig. 3) administration of Nam. "

 

Its easy to assume taking the completed NAD molecule would be a better approach but its just too big. It gets reduced and reassembled in the end anyway, so why fight it, take the cheaper NAD precursors and hold on to your money.

 

As always JMHO

Edited by Bryan_S, 01 April 2017 - 07:02 AM.

[Florian E.]

NAD+ IV it would be extremely expensive and why do it? NAD is a rather large molecule that will have to be reduced to NR at the cell membrane anyway. Here is an oversimplification, "any NAD precursor molecule bigger than NR must be reduced." I know that is way oversimplified. There is no problem with Niacin, Nicotinamide and Nicotinamide Riboside. Anything larger gets reduced like NMN, NAD, NADH. This is from an IV standpoint with no digestion where the cell membrane is the last barrier.

 

See Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions

 

 

Thanks for the info !

 

So, one advantage of NR is, that it can cross the cell membrane. Does this mean that with liposomal forms of NA/NAM/NAD+ you can cross the cell membrane and would have the same effects as NR ? And what liposomal NAD+ supp would have the shortest and most efficient path to NAD+ ?

 

And concerning IV NAD you would have to inject NR to cross cell membrane. But this would mean that all the current drip clinics direct nad+ or b3 infusions are pointless regarding nad+ levels. That seems to me a bit strange. I will try to find some more studies about NAD+/b3 infusions and nad+ levels.

[MikeDC]

NAD+ IV it would be extremely expensive and why do it? NAD is a rather large molecule that will have to be reduced to NR at the cell membrane anyway. Here is an oversimplification, "any NAD precursor molecule bigger than NR must be reduced." I know that is way oversimplified. There is no problem with Niacin, Nicotinamide and Nicotinamide Riboside. Anything larger gets reduced like NMN, NAD, NADH. This is from an IV standpoint with no digestion where the cell membrane is the last barrier.

See Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions

Thanks for the info !

So, one advantage of NR is, that it can cross the cell membrane. Does this mean that with liposomal forms of NA/NAM/NAD+ you can cross the cell membrane and would have the same effects as NR ? And what liposomal NAD+ supp would have the shortest and most efficient path to NAD+ ?

And concerning IV NAD you would have to inject NR to cross cell membrane. But this would mean that all the current drip clinics direct nad+ or b3 infusions are pointless regarding nad+ levels. That seems to me a bit strange. I will try to find some more studies about NAD+/b3 infusions and nad+ levels.

Forget about the liposome form of NR. It requires storage between 5 and 9 degrees Celsius and only stable for 2-3 months. It is not stable in room temperature. It might help us to absorb more. But the absorption of NR is not an issue.

[Bryan_S]

 

NAD+ IV it would be extremely expensive and why do it? NAD is a rather large molecule that will have to be reduced to NR at the cell membrane anyway. Here is an oversimplification, "any NAD precursor molecule bigger than NR must be reduced." I know that is way oversimplified. There is no problem with Niacin, Nicotinamide and Nicotinamide Riboside. Anything larger gets reduced like NMN, NAD, NADH. This is from an IV standpoint with no digestion where the cell membrane is the last barrier.

 

See Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions

 

 

Thanks for the info !

 

So, one advantage of NR is, that it can cross the cell membrane. Does this mean that with liposomal forms of NA/NAM/NAD+ you can cross the cell membrane and would have the same effects as NR ? And what liposomal NAD+ supp would have the shortest and most efficient path to NAD+ ?

 

And concerning IV NAD you would have to inject NR to cross cell membrane. But this would mean that all the current drip clinics direct nad+ or b3 infusions are pointless regarding nad+ levels. That seems to me a bit strange. I will try to find some more studies about NAD+/b3 infusions and nad+ levels.

 

 

The coating is a protection for digestive acids only. The better coatings break down in the intestine where the PH is tolerable. No study to my knowledge has been performed to confirm this works for these compounds or how digestive absorption is affected. This is open territory with no scientific studies indicating an advantage "at this point." 

 

IV drip only gets you past the digestive tract. The cell membrane is the next hurdle. NAD will be converted to NR at the cell membrane to pass like NMN. I expect NADH as well. Once these substances cross the cell membrane they can be reassembled.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Does this mean that with liposomal forms of NA/NAM/NAD+ you can cross the cell membrane and would have the same effects as NR ? And what liposomal NAD+ supp would have the shortest and most efficient path to NAD+ ?
 

Nicotinic acid has such a good absorption orally, almost 100%, that you don't need to enhance its absorption. They claim NR is the best path to NAD but it's definitely not the cheapest.

 

[Florian E.]

 

Does this mean that with liposomal forms of NA/NAM/NAD+ you can cross the cell membrane and would have the same effects as NR ? And what liposomal NAD+ supp would have the shortest and most efficient path to NAD+ ?
 

Nicotinic acid has such a good absorption orally, almost 100%, that you don't need to enhance its absorption. They claim NR is the best path to NAD but it's definitely not the cheapest.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that this is not correct.

Only with a short search i found this concerning Niacin digestive bioavailability:

themethyl ester of nicotinic

acid was only 15% as effective as the free acid in
supporting the growth of rats (Wall & Carpenter,
1988). About 10% of the total niacin was released as
free nicotinic acid after extraction of sorghum meal
with 0.1 N HCl (Magboul & Bender, 1982). This suggests
that a small proportion of bound nicotinic acid
can be hydrolysed by gastric juice and made available.

→ source (external link)

 

And also in this recent interview Dr. Charles Brenner explains why NR is superior to other NAD+ precursors -> https://seekingalpha...sive-vitamin-b3

So, my point was more about how this all would translate if you avoid the digestive part or cross the cell membrane with liposomes.

Edited by Florian E., 31 March 2017 - 08:47 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I'm pretty sure that this is not correct.

Only with a short search i found this concerning Niacin digestive bioavailability:

themethyl ester of nicotinic

acid was only 15% as effective as the free acid in
supporting the growth of rats (Wall & Carpenter,
1988). About 10% of the total niacin was released as
free nicotinic acid after extraction of sorghum meal
with 0.1 N HCl (Magboul & Bender, 1982). This suggests
that a small proportion of bound nicotinic acid
can be hydrolysed by gastric juice and made available.

→ source (external link)

What on G-d's green Earth does this have to do with the absorption of nicotinic acid?

NR is primarily superior because it's PATENTED. You know when things are patented they automatically get lots of studies saying how good they are versus placebo.

 

[Florian E.]

 

I'm pretty sure that this is not correct.

Only with a short search i found this concerning Niacin digestive bioavailability:

themethyl ester of nicotinic

acid was only 15% as effective as the free acid in
supporting the growth of rats (Wall & Carpenter,
1988). About 10% of the total niacin was released as
free nicotinic acid after extraction of sorghum meal
with 0.1 N HCl (Magboul & Bender, 1982). This suggests
that a small proportion of bound nicotinic acid
can be hydrolysed by gastric juice and made available.

→ source (external link)

What on G-d's green Earth does this have to do with the absorption of nicotinic acid?

NR is primarily superior because it's PATENTED. You know when things are patented they automatically get lots of studies saying how good they are versus placebo.

 

 

 

Ok.. Just read NA = about 70% bioavailability (in non-food supplements)

But NA as oral supplement does not elevate nad+ as much as NR. I thought that this is common sense atm.

 

Also qoute from the interview with Dr. Charles Brenner:

"Q: What's the problem with niacin or nicotinamide as a NAD+ precursor?

The nicotinamide pathway declines in aging, which means you would need ever higher doses to try to maintain your NAD. Second, at high doses, nicotinamide inhibits sirtuins, which is the opposite of NR. NR is a STAC that extends lifespan in model systems."

 

CB: There are three problems with niacin and two problems with nicotinamide, particularly at high doses.

First, niacin can't be used in lots of tissues because the niacin pathway is not on. The brain and skeletal muscle can't use niacin to boost NAD and these are two of the most important tissues that suffer the ravages of aging. Niacin also causes flushing at high doses and does not efficiently elevate mitochondrial NAD.

 

Edited by Florian E., 31 March 2017 - 09:55 PM.

[Journey2016]

What about NAD nasal spray products?

[Michael]

What about NAD nasal spray products?

 

You guys seem to be missing the point. It doesn't matter if you shoot it, snort it, swallow it in a pill, stick it under your tongue, take it by enema, or drip it in via intracerebroventricular catheter: the issue is that, from available evidence, the NAD+ molecule as such doesn't get into the cell.

[mrkosh1]

The simple truth is that there is no better method at this time to boost NAD+ in your cells than to take NR which is already available.

 

Taking NMN only adds another step to the process.

 

IV NAD+ would have to be converted into NR before being absorbed into cells.

 

 

[Journey2016]

I had spent the last 18months or so looking into IV NAD+ for addiction, if it did not work then why are there so manny success storys and online videos of people saying how its changed them, brain fog gone, mental clarity , energy,wellbeing and no cravings ect

Somthing i did have some to some degree when i first started on NR but it dropped down a few levels after 2 weeks ans just keeps me on a low level - positive , energetic feeling.

Im currently using a brand new NAD nasal spray from the UK and it gives me a diffrent level , it keeps me very calm, stress free and low cravings for addiction. I understand that in the US you have RG3 nasal and i think that is diffrent to this. I asked what was in my nasal product from the clinic and i was told its NAD.

Viewing and searching online NAD+ IV is the way to flush your body with NAD+ and restore cells ect.

This has been my understanding

I think its worth listening to this podcast on NAD+ IV as id like to hear peoples views on the podcast

https://bengreenfiel...07/what-is-nad/

Edited by Journey2016, 01 April 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[Journey2016]

Here is a quote from the pod cast


Ross: Yeah, sure. Look, to get it into the body, and this is one of the reasons why clinics like Dr. Milgram's and Dr. Mestayer will use IV NAD, if you want to get NAD into the body efficiently, what we call a 100% bioavailability, you know, when it’s all getting in, then the best way is to take an IV. The unfortunate thing is, and even though there's a lot of work that needs to be done still in this area, it looks like if you take NAD orally, and I've seen supplemental tablets for NAD out there, but taking it orally, unfortunately, you're pretty much not going to absorb it across the gastrointestinal tracks. So from the stomach and the gut, you're not gonna absorb NAD very efficiently. So, to what to get NAD up efficiently, it's intravenous.

[Florian E.]

I had spent the last 18months or so looking into IV NAD+ for addiction, if it did not work then why are there so manny success storys and online videos of people saying how its changed them, brain fog gone, mental clarity , energy,wellbeing and no cravings ect

Somthing i did have some to some degree when i first started on NR but it dropped down a few levels after 2 weeks ans just keeps me on a low level - positive , energetic feeling.

Im currently using a brand new NAD nasal spray from the UK and it gives me a diffrent level , it keeps me very calm, stress free and low cravings for addiction. I understand that in the US you have RG3 nasal and i think that is diffrent to this. I asked what was in my nasal product from the clinic and i was told its NAD.

Viewing and searching online NAD+ IV is the way to flush your body with NAD+ and restore cells ect.

This has been my understanding

I think its worth listening to this podcast on NAD+ IV as id like to hear peoples views on the podcast

https://bengreenfiel...07/what-is-nad/

 

I think we have to distinguish between extracellular NAD+ and intracellular NAD+.

Both have their own benfeficial health effects.

 

In this study i found some interesting information about NAD metabolism. http://www.mdpi.com/...409/4/3/520/htm

It seems that there exist a pathway from extra- to intracellular NAD:

 

"Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) is an essential co-enzyme reported to operate both intra- and extracellularly. In the extracellular space, NAD+ can elicit signals by binding purinergic P2 receptors or it can serve as the substrate for a chain of ectoenzymes. As a substrate, it is converted to adenosine (ADO) and then taken up by the cells, where it is transformed and reincorporated into the intracellular nucleotide pool. Nucleotide-nucleoside conversion is regulated by membrane-bound ectoenzymes. CD38, the main mammalian enzyme that hydrolyzes NAD+, belongs to the ectoenzymatic network generating intracellular Ca2+-active metabolites. Within this general framework, the extracellular conversion of NAD+ can vary significantly according to the tissue environment or pathological conditions."

 

But how much would IV-NAD affect intracellular NAD+ levels compared to NR ?

[Florian E.]

 

I had spent the last 18months or so looking into IV NAD+ for addiction, if it did not work then why are there so manny success storys and online videos of people saying how its changed them, brain fog gone, mental clarity , energy,wellbeing and no cravings ect

Somthing i did have some to some degree when i first started on NR but it dropped down a few levels after 2 weeks ans just keeps me on a low level - positive , energetic feeling.

Im currently using a brand new NAD nasal spray from the UK and it gives me a diffrent level , it keeps me very calm, stress free and low cravings for addiction. I understand that in the US you have RG3 nasal and i think that is diffrent to this. I asked what was in my nasal product from the clinic and i was told its NAD.

Viewing and searching online NAD+ IV is the way to flush your body with NAD+ and restore cells ect.

This has been my understanding

I think its worth listening to this podcast on NAD+ IV as id like to hear peoples views on the podcast

https://bengreenfiel...07/what-is-nad/

 

I think we have to distinguish between extracellular NAD+ and intracellular NAD+.

Both have their own benfeficial health effects.

 

In this study i found some interesting information about NAD metabolism. http://www.mdpi.com/...409/4/3/520/htm

It seems that there exist a pathway from extra- to intracellular NAD:

 

"Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) is an essential co-enzyme reported to operate both intra- and extracellularly. In the extracellular space, NAD+ can elicit signals by binding purinergic P2 receptors or it can serve as the substrate for a chain of ectoenzymes. As a substrate, it is converted to adenosine (ADO) and then taken up by the cells, where it is transformed and reincorporated into the intracellular nucleotide pool. Nucleotide-nucleoside conversion is regulated by membrane-bound ectoenzymes. CD38, the main mammalian enzyme that hydrolyzes NAD+, belongs to the ectoenzymatic network generating intracellular Ca2+-active metabolites. Within this general framework, the extracellular conversion of NAD+ can vary significantly according to the tissue environment or pathological conditions."

 

But how much would IV-NAD affect intracellular NAD+ levels compared to NR ?

 

 

I think that IV-NAD would not increase intracellular NAD+

 

And also, increased ADO levels could be bad to what i've read. For example here: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4588049/

 

"A more articulated hypothesis proposed that CD38 is not a simple marker. Because of its quantitative expression, CD38 might represent a ruler of NAD+ levels inside the niche where the myeloma grows. As a consequence, the enzymatic activities of this environment may lead to significant production of ADO. The outcome of the actions driven by ADO may be the generation of an environment that is extremely favorable to tumor survival in areas that are difficult to reach with drugs."

 

 

As these questions concerning metabolism go beyond my understanding, i will chancel on IV-NAD until further investigations have been made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Journey2016]

I have put some of the doubts to a well reapected nad clinic in the US and the reply i got was

"You would think, but that isn't what we see clinically. IV and seems to penetrate the nervous system more than NR. Could 't explain it more than that"

Maybe expecting a better responce for spending a huge amount of money. But my u understanding and view based on huge online research is that people are getting huge benafits and results from flooding there system via IV.