2255 replies to this topic

[PeaceAndProsperity]

NR is not patented, the manufacturing process is...

 

Are you sure? It seems that you are wrong, according at least to Google if you search for nicotinamide riboside patent.

Anyway, you might be right and this might be the reason for patenting nicotinamide mononucleotide.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iboside#History

 

ChromaDex acquired intellectual property on uses and synthesis of NR from Dartmouth College, Cornell University, and Washington University and began distributing NR as Niagen in 2013.^[18] In 2015, ChromaDex received New Dietary Ingredient (NDI) status for Niagen from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)^[19]

 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

What none of you seem to understand is that nicotinamide (aka NR) does a lot more than just increasing NAD synthesis, since it is a vitamin. Like nicotinic acid it also seems to have effects on neurotransmitters and fatty acid oxidation and so on and so forth. You know who else feels mental clarity, more energy, etc.? People who take nicotinic acid. Chances are it's because of it doing something else than just NAD related.

[Bryan_S]

 

 

 

ChromaDex acquired intellectual property on uses and synthesis of NR from Dartmouth College, Cornell University, and Washington University and began distributing NR as Niagen in 2013.^[18] In 2015, ChromaDex received New Dietary Ingredient (NDI) status for Niagen from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)^[19]

 

 

"ChromaDex acquired intellectual property on uses and synthesis of NR from . . ." You answered this question in your quote. The discovery of molecule goes back decades but it's the IP acquired from the universities that protects the manufacturing process. Many molecules are stabilized as salts. I haven't done a search for NR to see if this salt is unique IP or not. You'd have to look for prior filings.

[midas]

 nicotinamide (aka NR)

 

No it isn't....

[Nate-2004]

 

 

 

 

ChromaDex acquired intellectual property on uses and synthesis of NR from Dartmouth College, Cornell University, and Washington University and began distributing NR as Niagen in 2013.^[18] In 2015, ChromaDex received New Dietary Ingredient (NDI) status for Niagen from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)^[19]

 

 

"ChromaDex acquired intellectual property on uses and synthesis of NR from . . ." You answered this question in your quote. The discovery of molecule goes back decades but it's the IP acquired from the universities that protects the manufacturing process. Many molecules are stabilized as salts. I haven't done a search for NR to see if this salt is unique IP or not. You'd have to look for prior filings.

 

 

If it's the only way to stabilize it for oral use then they pretty much have a solid monopoly. I know it has a 6 hr max stability in water but what about stomach acids and other gut stuff?

 

Brian do you have a contact at HPN? Are they still using the same silica filler? Something seems different.

[Bryan_S]

Nate-2004,

 

Off-topic: HPN changed that in 2014 to Microcrystalline Cellulose, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) at our behest. Feel free to contact them at Support@HPNSupplements.com

 

I think you are talking about the other vendor that lied about their ingredients. HPN has always sent me their independent 3rd party testing when asked. I don't see any problems with my product.

 

Edited by Bryan_S, 09 April 2017 - 09:26 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Vitamin B 3 modulates mitochondrial vulnerability and prevents glaucoma in aged mice

https://www.research...ma_in_aged_mice

 

For those who didn't find access to this paper before its been publicly posted.

 

 

Vitamin B3 modulates mitochondrial vulnerability and prevents glaucoma in aged mice

http://science.scien...riant=full-text

Abstract

Glaucomas are neurodegenerative diseases that cause vision loss, especially in the elderly. The mechanisms initiating glaucoma and driving neuronal vulnerability during normal aging are unknown. Studying glaucoma-prone mice, we show that mitochondrial abnormalities are an early driver of neuronal dysfunction, occurring before detectable degeneration. Retinal levels of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+, a key molecule in energy and redox metabolism) decrease with age and render aging neurons vulnerable to disease-related insults. Oral administration of the NAD+ precursor nicotinamide (vitamin B3), and/or gene therapy (driving expression of Nmnat1, a key NAD+-producing enzyme), was protective both prophylactically and as an intervention. At the highest dose tested, 93% of eyes did not develop glaucoma. This supports therapeutic use of vitamin B3 in glaucoma and potentially other age-related neurodegenerations.

 

Missed this one maybe some posted it already.

 

 

[Bryan_S]

Study shows mice on NMN drinking water stay young | TimelessLife |

http://www.timelessl...ing-conclusion/

 

I don't remember seeing the review from the author at TimelessLife posted as he weighed in on the Sinclair NMN study. 

 

[warner]

 

Vitamin B 3 modulates mitochondrial vulnerability and prevents glaucoma in aged mice

https://www.research...ma_in_aged_mice

 

For those who didn't find access to this paper before its been publicly posted.

 

As someone with glaucoma, I've made several posts in the past about niacin raising my IOPs and producing some retinal edema, which resulted in my reducing or eliminating niacin supplemention.  However, I found the above research quite compelling, and it makes sense that NR, by increasing NAD+ levels, may reduce the negative effects of reduced retinal and optic nerve circulation that is likely driving glaucoma progression, especially at night.

 

So, in addition to other measures, I've started taking 125 mg of NR in the middle of the night (in addition to 250 mg during day) to see if this slows my glaucoma progression, as measured by visual field response and nerve fiber layer thickness (via OCT).  I had already determined that taking NR anytime in the evening was making getting to sleep more difficult, so that was not an option (see earlier posts about circadian rhythm issues with NR).  However, by waiting till middle of sleep period to take the NR, although causing some insomnia for first few days, I'm now sleeping well with more vivid morning dreams and probably less pain from any reduced circulation issues.

 

btw, I had already determined that taking the 250 mg of NR during the day had not affected my rate of glaucoma progression, but I wasn't surprised by that, since it I had already concluded that most of the risk plays out during the night, due to potentially lower levels of oxygen, glucose, NAD+, etc., tied to reduced circulation (higher IOP, lower BP), inadequate nutrition, and/or aging effects.  It seems likely too that there are lots of other localized areas of the body which may be put at risk during the night, and which might be helped by NR and increased NAD+ levels.  And perhaps taking NR in the middle of the night can help address these issues without producting insomnia or significantly disrupting circadian rhythm.

[Heisok]

Thanks for the information Warner. As somebody who experienced sleep problems when taking afternoon NR doses long term (I know plenty of members have no problem, so to those please do not tell me again that I just do not know how to handle the energy) :

 

I hope you will let us all know when you have more experience with your current regimen. Mine is 375 mg of HPN's NR in the A.M.

Edited by Heisok, 16 April 2017 - 07:37 PM.

[ambivalent]

As someone with glaucoma, I've made several posts in the past about niacin raising my IOPs and producing some retinal edema, which resulted in my reducing or eliminating niacin supplemention.

 

Was this nicotinic acid or nicotinamide?

  ​

Edited by Bryan_S, 16 April 2017 - 08:55 PM.
Niacin

[warner]

Thanks for the information Warner. As somebody who experienced sleep problems when taking afternoon NR doses long term (I know plenty of members have no problem, so to those please do not tell me again that I just do not know how to handle the energy) :

 

I hope you will let us all know when you have more experience with your current regimen. Mine is 375 mg of HPN's NR in the A.M.

Both my wife and I had trouble sleeping when taking 125mg NR at dinner time, so we moved that back to our 3PM break and that fixed the issue.  Also, the fact that the 125mg NR at 2:30 AM was at first waking me up at about 4 AM would seem to confirm its link to insomnia, although after several days I have adapted to that, which was not the case with the dinner time dose.  But 4 AM is getting close to our normal wake time of 6 AM, so perhaps its easier to make such a small two-hour adjustment when already in sleep mode, and the NR may also be making it easier to sleep in other ways (such as less pain from areas of reduced circulation).

 

Anyway, these low-oxygen, low-nutrient related events and processes are probably very time sensitive (an hour or two being much less damaging than three or four?), so I wouldn't be surprised to find that some trick like this of taking NR in the middle of the night may be optimal wrt balancing insomnia and tissue/nerve rescue.

Edited by warner, 17 April 2017 - 01:18 AM.

[warner]

Was this nicotinic acid or nicotinamide?

I use niacin = NA = nicotinic acid, versus NAM = nicotinamide.

 

Generally, I find the question of whether to use NA vs. NAM vs. NR to be thoroughly confusing. 

I'm mainly using NR now because it's mode of action seems to be simpler and clearer, and at relatively lower molar dosing compared to NA and NAM.  Throwing large amounts of NA or NAM at a problem, given their more complex and varied biochemical effects, makes me nervous, even though people have been doing that for decades.  (My wife too takes NR + some NA to help prevent skin cancers rather than the larger doses of nicotinamide used in the related study.)  Time will tell whether this was a good bet.

[MikeDC]

NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer.

[Nate-2004]

 

Thanks for the information Warner. As somebody who experienced sleep problems when taking afternoon NR doses long term (I know plenty of members have no problem, so to those please do not tell me again that I just do not know how to handle the energy) :

 

I hope you will let us all know when you have more experience with your current regimen. Mine is 375 mg of HPN's NR in the A.M.

Both my wife and I had trouble sleeping when taking 125mg NR at dinner time, so we moved that back to our 3PM break and that fixed the issue.  Also, the fact that the 125mg NR at 2:30 AM was at first waking me up at about 4 AM would seem to confirm its link to insomnia, although after several days I have adapted to that, which was not the case with the dinner time dose.  But 4 AM is getting close to our normal wake time of 6 AM, so perhaps its easier to make such a small two-hour adjustment when already in sleep mode, and the NR may also be making it easier to sleep in other ways (such as less pain from areas of reduced circulation).

 

Anyway, these low-oxygen, low-nutrient related events and processes are probably very time sensitive (an hour or two being much less damaging than three or four?), so I wouldn't be surprised to find that some trick like this of taking NR in the middle of the night may be optimal wrt balancing insomnia and tissue/nerve rescue.

 

 

Weird that some people are kept awake while others, like me, sleep even more soundly than usual with NR later at night before bed. What's even more interesting is that I'm prone to insomnia.

Edited by Nate-2004, 17 April 2017 - 02:37 AM.

[soulprogrammer]

"Weird that some people are kept awake while others, like me, sleep even more soundly than usual with NR later at night before bed. What's even more interesting is that I'm prone to insomnia."

 

Probably due to different chemistry within an individual.  I think NR might be solving problems that is generic to many - declining NAD+ issues, but certain individuals might have other complications of insomnia not due to NAD+ issues, so in that case, NR can't and will not benefit the fews.

 

Personally, I found that taking NR makes me sleep lots better, I used to wake up during the nights at least 3-4 times! SO DAMN Annoying, I m sure those who experienced it will know what I mean. Now, my bladder will be FULL the morning I wake up, and no need to wake up during the night to pee! This is a huge differences although to many not significant, especially those who never experience the nocturia problem.

[sthira]

NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer.

Does NR prevent iPhone sickness? For example, I want to lay on my side while writing this, but my diseased phone keeps auto rotating. Help, NR!

Aww fuck -- now look, I done got more pointless time wasting marks. Can NR rescue my serial pointlessness, too? I think NR stands for Narcose Rannygazoo

[bluemoon]

 

 

Weird that some people are kept awake while others, like me, sleep even more soundly than usual with NR later at night before bed. What's even more interesting is that I'm prone to insomnia.

 

I took 125 mg of NR for a few weeks in fall and then went up to 250 mg in January. Within two or three days I started to sleep like a rock. I don't seem to need as much sleep anymore and my dreams are consistently lucid. Maybe not every night but easily most days which took some getting used to. I take NR in the morning and never at night. There are times when I'll get 4 to 5 hours of sleep instead of the usual 7 or so, which can be annoying. Also, when I wake up, I am *awake* - no need for coffee, but it isn't a stimulant feeling. My 62 year old friend (I'm 47) with the vision says he noticed no change in sleep or dreams but improved vision and energy. Go figure.

[bluemoon]

 

NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer.

Does NR prevent iPhone sickness? For example, I want to lay on my side while writing this, but my diseased phone keeps auto rotating. Help, NR!

Aww fuck -- now look, I done got more pointless time wasting marks. Can NR rescue my serial pointlessness, too? I think NR stands for Narcose Rannygazoo

 

 

It is always good to know 14 year olds are interested in NR. Unfortunately, I don't think NR will help with i-phone sickness, whatever that is.

[sthira]

NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer.

Does NR prevent iPhone sickness? For example, I want to lay on my side while writing this, but my diseased phone keeps auto rotating. Help, NR!

Aww fuck -- now look, I done got more pointless time wasting marks. Can NR rescue my serial pointlessness, too? I think NR stands for Narcose Rannygazoo

It is always good to know 14 year olds are interested in NR. Unfortunately, I don't think NR will help with i-phone sickness, whatever that is.

Durn. Thought it was a cure all. Fair enough. Your humor sense is sharpened to wounding point by NR, I admit I'm a 14 year old practicing usage of SAT words like rannygazoo.

Meanwhile, are you here to agree that "NR alone will prevent almost all cancers including skin cancers. NR stimulate DNA repair to prevent cancer?"

Is that shining glorious bluemoon reflecting back to us that NR prevents invasive melanomas? NR stops Non Small Cell Lung Cancer? And Hepatocellular Carcinoma? Colorectal, breast, prostate, pancreatic, Leukemia, Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma...? NR is prevention for that shit?

NR is THE prevention? Well, d-d-daaayyum. My 14 year old brain is learning every day new insights.

Edited by sthira, 17 April 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[Heisok]

sthira, my feeling is that your pointing your "NR stands for Narcose Rannygazoo" (which I see as a humorous comment) towards NR is what I see as a problem.

 

If you do not like MikeDC's claims then point youre barb solely in that direction . If you are discounting all claims of NR users, and promoters, then please have at the science.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Heisok, 17 April 2017 - 10:38 PM.

[MikeDC]

It is well known that Cancer is a metabolic disease due to Mitochandria malfunction. We now know this is due to low NAD+. On mouse models cancers are formed when NAD+ is low and Cancer is cured when NAD+ is increased.

[Daniel Cooper]

It is well known that Cancer is a metabolic disease due to Mitochandria malfunction. We now know this is due to low NAD+. On mouse models cancers are formed when NAD+ is low and Cancer is cured when NAD+ is increased.

 

As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  So far you've been long on claims and short on evidence.

 

And there is some evidence that NR may reduce the rates of some cancers, but I personally have seen nothing approaching the sweeping claims you are making here.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I'd love nothing more than for you to be right, I just want to see the evidence.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 17 April 2017 - 11:27 PM.

[bluemoon]

David Sinclair showed in November 2014 that NMN greatly shrank liver tumors in mice after a few weeks. I doubt it works as well in humans, but I don't see how people can claim at this point that NR prevents or cures cancer in humans. Not even Oprah Winfrey is claiming that.

 

Sinclair in 2014

 

19:00 resveratrol in 2003 to 2006

 

21:00 GSK SRT2104 drug development that has been ongoing "that are a thousand times more effective than resveratrol" and mice results

 

23:45 NAD+ "Looking forward we have new technology that's even better than I've told you about." ... Mice on NMN had muscles reverse from old to young within a week. "I think this is the beginning of a new era in aging research where we can not just delay aging but reverse it."

 

"We've been challenged: "Maybe NMN and NAD will cause cancer!" Well, here's research from Linsey's work. If you feed mice that develop liver cancer, these are little dots - little tumors that will kill a human pretty quickly. These are liver cancers and if you just put NMN in the drinking water of these mice for a few months, you barely see any tumors. So this is not a tumor promoting molecule - at least in liver cancer."

 

"So we're excited about this research not just from an aging perspective but ability to prevent and treat major diseases as well"

 

Later in the Q&A, which is included on the full video, Sinclair mentions NR and again states it is the way to go beyond reseveratrol.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by bluemoon, 18 April 2017 - 12:02 AM.

[Bryan_S]

Enough guys, for one this is a research news thread on NAD repletion. If you make a benefits claim back it up with study references. #2 this is not the personal experience thread. If you are having sleepless nights, again back it up with some research otherwise it is anecdotal information and belongs on the personal experience thread.

 

So moving on, anther video about Dr. Brenner appeared today.

 

 

Oh and what do you know a research paper appeared today.

 

Effects of a wide range of dietary nicotinamide riboside

(NR) concentrations on metabolic flexibility and white

adipose tissue (WAT) of mice fed a mildly obesogenic diet

 

http://onlinelibrary...ae980d7dfa044b4

 

Credit

Effects of a wide range of dietary nicotinamide riboside (NR) concentrations on metabolic flexibility and white adipose tissue (WAT) of mice fed a mildly obesogenic diet

 

http://onlinelibrary....201600878/full

 

 

 

Edited by Bryan_S, 18 April 2017 - 12:35 AM.

[Florian E.]

There are so many different types of cancers with so many different causes. To think ONE substance can kill em all is just utterly ridiculous.

The body has many failsafes to prevent cancer. But there is just so much going on in the body so that over time chances rise that incidentally at some point all safety measures fail in any process and cancer developes.

NR might minimize cancer risk and/or shrink some few cancer types. But that's it.

[MikeDC]

There are 300,000 people taking NR and most of them over 40. The probability of breast cancer alone is 1/8. So we should have heard thousands of people getting Cancer after taking NR. So far not one person has claimed to have Cancer after taking NR.

[soulprogrammer]

"There are so many different types of cancers with so many different causes. To think ONE substance can kill em all is just utterly ridiculous."

 

I certainly have doubts on the claim that NR can cure all cancers but the above statement I will disagree.

 

Let's think on a different perspective and rephrase a bit. "To think ONE substance can kill all VIRUSES is just utterly ridiculous." But the DRACO drug seems to be able to kill all viruses (though the research never funded to human trials). I do believe the root cause of the cancer might be similar for all types, just that we have not yet really found the reason. IF the reason is found, then ONE substance should kill them all!

 

Cancer might be due to DNA copying error? DNA damage? Mutation? Hope scientist one day can find the root cause of ALL cancer.

[MikeDC]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...riboside cancer

[bluemoon]

 From the Molecular Nutrition  paper: "...we conclude that 30 mg NR/kg diet constitutes the optimal concentration to support metabolic health."

 

I assume that is for mice. So divide by 12 to get 2.5 mg NR/kg, right? 

 

55 kg =   120 lb    140 mg NR

65 kg =   145 lb    155 mg 

75 kg =   165 lb    190 mg 

90 kg =   200 lb    200 mg  

100 kg = 220 lb    250 mg 

 

 

That still wouldn't necessarily mean that this is the ideal amount especially if someone has a condition assuming NR would help. It will be interesting to compare with the June/July Chromadex trial results at 300 mg and 1000 mg.