2255 replies to this topic

[midas]

Have you guys read the most frequent review of NR on iHerb and Amazon, etc? Cause it sure ain't full body rejuvenation and pheeling 20 years younger.

The most frequent review is "I have increased energy," well gee it's a vitamin that helps you make energy out of food like niacin does. The second most frequent review is that the reviewer didn't notice any effect and suggests nobody else should waste their time and money. The third most frequent review is any of the side-effects like fatigue, headache, libido dysfunction or anything seemingly histamine related like pseudoallergy reactions.

 

I would be extremely surprised if the studies showed that it actually did anything, but then again what can't you buy with money and influence?

 

Why don't you take your constant negative unhelpful trolling BS somewhere else.......plenty of people on here have very positive results from taking NR, I'm one of them. This thread is not here for you to vent your negative unreferenced crap.  If the best you can do is refer to Amazon posts you are not contributing in any meaningful way........Which reminds me, I need to take out the trash today!

[pamojja]

Why don't you take your constant negative unhelpful trolling BS somewhere else.......plenty of people on here have very positive results from taking NR, I'm one of them. This thread is not here for you to vent your negative unreferenced crap.  If the best you can do is refer to Amazon posts you are not contributing in any meaningful way........Which reminds me, I need to take out the trash today!

 

Well, P&P at least reminds that the reports here are sort of self-selected. Fewer would make the effort and admit of wasting that much money. While on a vendor-site it's more likely.
 

[mikeinnaples]

I'm sorry Mike, I do agree it's off-topic but it's important. It's possible that the anti-graying of hair, the normalization of hair color, is not only mediated by nicotinic acid but also by the addition of carnitine. Anyway, my relative definitely had reversal of graying of hair on his entire body a period after starting niacin.

 

Nicotinic Acid up to 2.5g a day and a minimum of 1.5g a day have done nothing for grey hair in over 10 years of use.

 

NR has done nothing for grey hair in 9 months of use.

[midas]

 

Why don't you take your constant negative unhelpful trolling BS somewhere else.......plenty of people on here have very positive results from taking NR, I'm one of them. This thread is not here for you to vent your negative unreferenced crap.  If the best you can do is refer to Amazon posts you are not contributing in any meaningful way........Which reminds me, I need to take out the trash today!

 

Well, P&P at least reminds that the reports here are sort of self-selected. Fewer would make the effort and admit of wasting that much money. While on a vendor-site it's more likely.
 

 

 

Anyone can review any product on Amazon without having bought it.....Enter Big Pharma. They know the internet is a powerful tool.

 

If you do a search for Nicotinamide on Google this site is pretty much the first one that comes up, no way of contacting the owners of the site and it is really high, if not first on the search list....Though the site is actually positive about NR the title will put most people off clicking on it...reverse psychology springs to mind without actually doing anything wrong. No one in their right mind that is promoting NR would label the search result for their site like that..

"Dont Believe The HYPE about Nicotinamide Riboside"

http://alivebynature.com/about-niagen/

[mikeinnaples]

 

Why don't you take your constant negative unhelpful trolling BS somewhere else.......plenty of people on here have very positive results from taking NR, I'm one of them. This thread is not here for you to vent your negative unreferenced crap.  If the best you can do is refer to Amazon posts you are not contributing in any meaningful way........Which reminds me, I need to take out the trash today!

 

Well, P&P at least reminds that the reports here are sort of self-selected. Fewer would make the effort and admit of wasting that much money. While on a vendor-site it's more likely.
 

 

 

Agreed, but the trolling and cheerleading alike is tiresome and needs to be dealt with. P&P is blatantly trolling in polluting the thread on purpose and Mike keeps delving into extreme cheerleading often with unsubstantiated claims. Neither is helpful or productive and makes the community look like a bunch of crackpots when for the most part, the opposite is the truth. What are we, a body building forum now?

 

 

Anyways, back on topic: For most people that take care of themselves properly, I suspect that you wouldn't see too many drastic effects from NR. In fact, the only supplement I have ever seen a drastic effects from was from the C60EVoo that I no longer take  and wouldn't have even noticed that more than likely without my metrics (see appropriate thread for documentation as it is off topic here). With that said, I am in it for the long term results ....not for the immediate.

[ambivalent]

Is there are chance you are shorting this stock P&P? You seem obsessed with a product which you don't believe and in evangelising over another activity which you refrain from.

 

 I have noticed that you have provided less than 200 positive feedbacks and over 400 negative responses with an additional 150+  of the humorous but often sarcastic 'enjoying the show' ratings. There is no upper bound on levels of disagreement, of course, but simply labelling posts negatively, without argument, on that scale is self-indulgent and designed to antagonise.

. 

 Although sometimes a thumbs down might not seem the worst option. Take this quote on the other thread:

 

Jesus Christ you people are not too smart. Have any of you even had sex before? Maybe you're having too much sex and have never been in the position of living alone and occasionally masturbating? It seems so many guys here are hypersexual losers who hit the club and bang a couple of whores here and there with a condom on while taking various highly illegal recreational drugs. Yet then I read these things which implies you haven't experienced sex with a woman before. So confusing.

 

This is not constructive or the kind of responses that are progressive or consistent with the measured, developed and thoughtful interactions sought on longecity or indeed consistent with someone's who life-philosophy is one of peace and prosperity.

 

You have evidently developed a depth of knowledge, far superior to mine, which can add significantly to the community, but I see more harm than good from your contributions on  this forum. Perhaps take a break.

 

Still, it would useful be if you could provide links to the anecdotes you've researched are on amazon, iherb: that would be illuminating and helpful 

 

On NR: I can testify to the histamine effect,but I was an outlier in terms of NR usage and I have given myself a problem to solve. In addition I also felt pain flashes at low doses. That said, I experienced fabulous mental effects, fantastic endurance and remarkable softening of the skin. NR does a lot, there is some risk for some people, I believe. Scepticism is justified and needed; however, it must be balanced. We have extreme examples of confirmation bias on the forum from both sides of the NR spectrum of belief - it is not helping to develop clarity. 

 

 

Edited by ambivalent, 24 April 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[Oakman]

 

 

......No one in their right mind that is promoting NR would label the search result for their site like that..

"Dont Believe The HYPE about Nicotinamide Riboside"

http://alivebynature.com/about-niagen/

 

 

Of course they would, and absolutely companies do. People often look for negative reviews to be sure they're making a good purchase decision. So you see a headline like Alive by Nature's, click, and see:

 

"There is NO DIFFERENCE in the QUALITY of Nicotinamide Riboside pills used by different brands.  

The main difference between brands is CAPSULE SIZE AND CAPSULES PER BOTTLE, so you do 

need to take that into account when comparing prices."

 

Which, of course, is TRUE. Nothing deceptive there, it is all true - there is no difference (except for excipients), and how much Niagen per cap, caps per bottle, and so $/gram. AbyN's headline likely works better at getting clicks than say, "Best price per gram Niagen", also true in their case. Their ad copy also encapsulates several Nicotinamide Riboside study results nicely and give references.

 

Compare to the ACTUAL HYPE given by some other vendors' Google search results -  for example:

 

Take N® Niagen by HPx Finally Feel Younger Forever - xxN ...  now that is blatant BS. And the ad copy that headline leads to is along the same lines, and contains multiple dubious and/or false statements! It all depends on the scruples of the vendor I guess.

Edited by Oakman, 24 April 2017 - 01:23 PM.

[sthira]

This is the list of clinical trials

Thanks. Where did you find this? Most of the "scheduled" trials are not mentioned in the recent shareholder letter from the CEO.

It's on page 19 of 42 in Chromadex's Investor Presentation September 2016: http://phx.corporate...093143629296151

[drgs]

Hi,

I've been taking Niagen for about year with no problems. One month ago I have started taking Niagen (250 mg) together with creatine (2 g) on empty stomach every morning. I now recognize I have nicotinamide toxicity -- neuropathy, fatigue, nausea, joint pain...

I suspect it can have something to do with methylation/creatine. Can anyone explain what can be the issue?

 

MK

[mikeinnaples]

 

 

I'm sorry Mike, I do agree it's off-topic but it's important. It's possible that the anti-graying of hair, the normalization of hair color, is not only mediated by nicotinic acid but also by the addition of carnitine. Anyway, my relative definitely had reversal of graying of hair on his entire body a period after starting niacin.

 

Nicotinic Acid up to 2.5g a day and a minimum of 1.5g a day have done nothing for grey hair in over 10 years of use.

 

NR has done nothing for grey hair in 9 months of use.

 

That's interesting. Try adding carnitine, 1g daily, maybe that'll change it.

 

 

No. I take ALCAR and have for years as well.

 

There is simply nothing in NA that reverses greying.

 

If there was grey reversal it was most likely due to something else correcting a nutrient deficiency that caused it to begin with.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 24 April 2017 - 01:53 PM.

[Oakman]

Hi,

I've been taking Niagen for about year with no problems. One month ago I have started taking Niagen (250 mg) together with creatine (2 g) on empty stomach every morning. I now recognize I have nicotinamide toxicity -- neuropathy, fatigue, nausea, joint pain...

I suspect it can have something to do with methylation/creatine. Can anyone explain what can be the issue?

 

MK

 

I don't know your details, but 2g doesn't seem like enough creatine to cause problems generally. I've taken creatine off and on, usually 4g, but not directly with Niagen on an empty stomach. The thing I always do is drink 16 oz of water with creatine, as it draws water from your body and in doing so hydrates your muscles, but dehydrates everything else.

 

Medline gives several waning about it, https://medlineplus....atural/873.html plus a search will pull up more, but again, it is generally well tolerated.  Given what is shown here https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+1237 it seems unlikely that .25g of NR could cause your problems, that's a quite small amount.

 

I would separate the two products, take creatine with a lot of water and see the result.

[drgs]

 

Hi,

I've been taking Niagen for about year with no problems. One month ago I have started taking Niagen (250 mg) together with creatine (2 g) on empty stomach every morning. I now recognize I have nicotinamide toxicity -- neuropathy, fatigue, nausea, joint pain...

I suspect it can have something to do with methylation/creatine. Can anyone explain what can be the issue?

 

MK

 

I don't know your details, but 2g doesn't seem like enough creatine to cause problems generally. I've taken creatine off and on, usually 4g, but not directly with Niagen on an empty stomach. The thing I always do is drink 16 oz of water with creatine, as it draws water from your body and in doing so hydrates your muscles, but dehydrates everything else.

 

Medline gives several waning about it, https://medlineplus....atural/873.html plus a search will pull up more, but again, it is generally well tolerated.  Given what is shown here https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+1237 it seems unlikely that .25g of NR could cause your problems, that's a quite small amount.

 

I would separate the two products, take creatine with a lot of water and see the result.

 

 

NR and creatine suppose to work better in synergy:

http://www.ergo-log....es-muscles.html

 

Anyway I take 5 days breaks every month from all supplements

I can mention I also upped my vit D intake

 

Basically I have similar symptoms to this guy, but over a longer time period:

http://www.longecity...amide-riboside/

 

I know that creatine lowers methylation demand

 

Edited by drgs, 24 April 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[Harkijn]

Hi,

I've been taking Niagen for about year with no problems. One month ago I have started taking Niagen (250 mg) together with creatine (2 g) on empty stomach every morning. I now recognize I have nicotinamide toxicity -- neuropathy, fatigue, nausea, joint pain...

I suspect it can have something to do with methylation/creatine. Can anyone explain what can be the issue?

 

MK

Drgs, I think Oakman gave you sound advice already.

I would like to add that it is better to consult a doctor because of the seriousness of your complaints. The complaints might be symptoms of something else, such as lack or overload of vitamin B6, or ill absorption of vit B12. Sometimes neuropathy is only reversible in an early stage.

(A very few posters in the Experiences thread have mentioned joint pain after lengthy use of NR. I personally have been combining   NR with creatine in similar amounts as you for a long time now without any negative effects.)

Edited by Harkijn, 24 April 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[midas]

 

 

 

......No one in their right mind that is promoting NR would label the search result for their site like that..

"Dont Believe The HYPE about Nicotinamide Riboside"

http://alivebynature.com/about-niagen/

 

 

Of course they would, and absolutely companies do. People often look for negative reviews to be sure they're making a good purchase decision. So you see a headline like Alive by Nature's, click, and see:

 

 

OK, let me put it this way, after seeing that I tried a little experiment a few months ago. I asked three of my friends who know nothing about this topic to google NR and get back to me with what they thought. All three said the same thing, they saw that on the initial search and they were put off straight away. So, if someone thinks that as a good way to atract people to their site about NR they got it wrong three times out of three....Just saying.

Edited by midas, 24 April 2017 - 03:08 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

There definitely is in multiple individuals. I can think of multiple mechanisms. In fact I can think of at least 4 mechanisms for it:

1. Anti-inflammatory through activation of the flush-inducing receptor (proven).

2. Anti-inflammatory via metal chelation (potential).

3. Increased NAD+ (proven. niacin also increases hair growth, potentially via this method?).

4. Increased nutrient delivery via dilation of the microcirculatory system (as seen during reddening of skin).

 

Somehow I really seriously doubt that you have taken it every single day for so long. Most don't do it unless their doctor tells them to do so or unless they're serious people. Most people can't even take a single medication consistently unless it is life saving.

 

Feel free to go through my post history dating back since I began here, but I know a troll wont bother.

 

Also feel free to link in any actual evidence that NA reverses greying. NA has been in use for decades and there is absolutely no evidence that it does anything along those lines.

 

 

Edit: Better yet, how about start a NA topic instead of polluting the NR one.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 24 April 2017 - 04:13 PM.

[Harkijn]

Pssst Mike, please don't feed the scavengers. They will just keep on coming back for more....

[soulprogrammer]

@Bryan_S, Please ban/bar P&P from posting and doing further damage to this thread. I definitely welcome constructive criticism, but P&P is just trolling here and giving BS without facts.

 

"Reducing triglycerides >27% in one day with a vitamin?"

 

"The most frequent review is "I have increased energy," well gee it's a vitamin that helps you make energy out of food like niacin does. The second most frequent review is that the reviewer didn't notice any effect and suggests nobody else should waste their time and money. The third most frequent review is any of the side-effects like fatigue, headache, libido dysfunction or anything seemingly histamine related like pseudoallergy reactions."

 

IF we continue to allow people like P&P posting in this thread, it will soon turn into an unrelated thread full of BS.

 

This thread is about NR science and development, and yet, P&P has no interest whatsoever in NR. It is very obvious his interest is to make sure NR is labelled as snake oil.

[Harkijn]

We're on page 71. You don't think all topics have been exhausted thoroughly? Anyway, give the baby his bottle. I'll leave on my own. Goodbye.

Thank you P&P, I sincerely wish you will get the  attention and care you seek. Not via the internet, but from the people around you.

Edited by Harkijn, 24 April 2017 - 05:21 PM.

[Valijon]

I like NR and I'm really encouraged by the research being performed. I took it at 250mg for 30 days and the energy was very good, especially the first day. I haven't taken any more of it though. Why? The price. I picked some up for $10 online that seems to have been a one time deal. The price ranges between $30 and $50 for the same 250mg @ 30d. Theres no way no feel the price is justified.

[sthira]

Hi,
I've been taking Niagen for about year with no problems. One month ago I have started taking Niagen (250 mg) together with creatine (2 g) on empty stomach every morning. I now recognize I have nicotinamide toxicity -- neuropathy, fatigue, nausea, joint pain...
I suspect it can have something to do with methylation/creatine. Can anyone explain what can be the issue?

MK

B3 is water-soluable; so you'd probably just pee out extra dollars. But I'd see my doctor and ask about liver health: ALT; Bilrubin; Albumin; ALP; AST... these are standard blood test checkup items which may useful for general health anyway, whether you do or don't have liver issues from whatever.

"...High-dose nicotinamide should still, however, be considered as a drug with toxic potential at adult doses in excess of 3 gm/day and unsupervised use should be discouraged. [Diabetologia (2000) 43: 1337–1345]

http://link.springer...7/s001250051536

Here's some word up from US EPA on this stuff: https://www.epa.gov/...icotinamide.pdf

Don't support funding cuts to US EPA, either, scientists are watching out for our public health whether we give them credit or not.

Edited by sthira, 24 April 2017 - 06:44 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Inhibition of PARP Activity Attenuated Hepatic Triglyceride Accumulation in Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease in Mice

Shishun Huang ,  Bing Zhang ,  Yingli Chen ,  Huan Liu ,  Yang Liu ,  Xin Li ,  Zhiwei Bao ,  Zhenyuan Song ,  Zhigang Wang *

Inhibition of PARP Activity Attenuated Hepatic Triglyceride ... - Preprints download paper

Version 1 : Received: 22 April 2017 / Approved: 24 April 2017 / Online: 24 April 2017 (05:30:53 CEST) 

How to cite: Huang, S.; Zhang, B.; Chen, Y.; Liu, H.; Liu, Y.; Li, X.; Bao, Z.; Song, Z.; Wang, Z. Inhibition of PARP Activity Attenuated Hepatic Triglyceride Accumulation in Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease in Mice. Preprints 2017, 2017040144 (doi: 10.20944/preprints201704.0144.v1). Huang, S.; Zhang, B.; Chen, Y.; Liu, H.; Liu, Y.; Li, X.; Bao, Z.; Song, Z.; Wang, Z. Inhibition of PARP Activity Attenuated Hepatic Triglyceride Accumulation in Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease in Mice. Preprints 2017, 2017040144 (doi: 10.20944/preprints201704.0144.v1).

Abstract

The specific role of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) in hepatic triglyceride (TG) accumulation in alcoholic fatty liver disease (AFLD) were unclear. Poly ADP ribose polymerase (PARP) is a NAD-consuming enzyme and its specific role in the pathogenesis of AFLD is still elusive. In current investigation, we found that chronic alcohol exposure enhanced hepatic PARP expression and activity and lowered hepatic NAD+ level. PARP activity inhibitor PJ34 decreased the intracellular TG content in hepatocyte. Moreover, PJ34 suppressed the gene expression of DGAT1 and DGAT2 and elevated the intracellular NAD+ level in hepatocyte. These mechanistic observation was validated in alcohol-fed mice injected with PJ34 intraperitoneally. PJ34 injection attenuated hepatic TG accumulation in alcohol-fed mice. Further, the gene expression of hepatic SERBP-1c, DGAT1 and DGAT2 were lowered by PJ34 injection, while the hepatic NAD+ level was augmented by PJ34 injection in alcohol-fed mice. At last, the nicotinamide riboside supplementation alleviated hepatic TG accumulation in alcohol-fed mice. These data indicate that applying PARP specific inhibitor PJ34 by intraperitoneal injection attenuated hepatic NAD+ depletion and TG accumulation in alcohol-fed mice, which might be a potential candidate for AFLD therapy.

[Bryan_S]

New data suggest NAD plays an even larger role in the anti-aging story than was previously understood

April 19, 2017

 

http://aboutnr.com/2...harles-brenner/

[Bryan_S]

NAD+Replenishment Improves Lifespan and Healthspan in Ataxia Telangiectasia Models via Mitophagy and DNA Repair

https://www.research..._and_DNA_Repair

 

Abstract

Ataxia telangiectasia (A-T) is a rare autosomal recessive disease characterized by progressive neurodegeneration and cerebellar ataxia. A-T is causally linked to defects in ATM, a master regulator of the response to and repair of DNA double-strand breaks. The molecular basis of cerebellar atrophy and neurodegeneration in A-T patients is unclear. Here we report and examine the significance of increased PARylation, low NAD⁺, and mitochondrial dysfunction in ATM-deficient neurons, mice, and worms. Treatments that replenish intracellular NAD⁺ reduce the severity of A-T neuropathology, normalize neuromuscular function, delay memory loss, and extend lifespan in both animal models. Mechanistically, treatments that increase intracellular NAD⁺ also stimulate neuronal DNA repair and improve mitochondrial quality via mitophagy. This work links two major theories on aging, DNA damage accumulation, and mitochondrial dysfunction through nuclear DNA damage-induced nuclear-mitochondrial signaling, and demonstrates that they are important pathophysiological determinants in premature aging of A-T, pointing to therapeutic interventions.

NAD+ Replenishment Improves Lifespan and Healthspan in Ataxia Telangiectasia Models via Mitophagy and DNA Repair (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.research..._and_DNA_Repair [accessed Apr 24, 2017].

Edited by Bryan_S, 24 April 2017 - 11:04 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

Kathryn Harris (2016-2017 MRSP Scholar, Meharry Medical College) is the first MRSP scholar from Meharry Medical College. She is working under the mentorship of Dr. Michael Sack in the Laboratory of Mitochondrial Biology and Metabolism of the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute. Her research focuses on the effect of nicotinamide riboside on inflammation. 

 

Can someone find any info about her research outcome? Is NR has anything to do with inflammation?

[MikeDC]

Kathryn Harris (2016-2017 MRSP Scholar, Meharry Medical College) is the first MRSP scholar from Meharry Medical College. She is working under the mentorship of Dr. Michael Sack in the Laboratory of Mitochondrial Biology and Metabolism of the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute. Her research focuses on the effect of nicotinamide riboside on inflammation.

Can someone find any info about her research outcome? Is NR has anything to do with inflammation?

The latest slides from Chromodex says the trial is on going.

[mrkosh1]

I believe I've read that NR is well absorbed by the body and distributed to various organ systems. On another thread, someone claimed that 90% of NR taken orally is broken down into nicotinamide before it reaches the cells. I have seen ZERO documentation for this. If this were to be true, it would be very, very bad because nicotinamide can inhibit the sirtulins.

 

My understanding is that NR is far better than NMN because it doesn't get degraded in the gut and can instantly penetrate the cell membrane. There is a thesis out there that proves NMN has to be converted into NR before it can enter cells.

 

 

[mrkosh1]

For months now there has been a campaign to refute the FACT that NMN must be converted into NR before entering cells. When I've mentioned this, people always claim that I need to provide citations. Well, I found the thesis.

 

http://ir.uiowa.edu/...533&context=etd

 

Page 57

 

4.2 Abstract

 

The novel NAD+ precursor nicotinamide riboside (NR) opposes age and diet induced

morbidities such as obesity and diabetes. Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), phosphorylated

NR, is also effective against diabetic effects. Though both increase intracellular NAD +concentration upon administration to rodents, NMN i

nternalization into cells has not been demonstrated. Mounting genetic and pharmacologicalevidence suggests NMN is

dephosphorylated to NR prior to its intracellular utilization. However, these methods rely upon indirect measurement and does not necessarily exclude whether NMN and NR are kinetically equivalent in supplementing NAD+. In this work, we show through LC-MS/MS and stable isotope

enrichment that NMN is dephosphorylated extracellularly to NR and that NR is incorporated into the intracellular NAD+faster than NMN and as such NR is a more efficacious B3 vitamin in cell culture.

[mikeinnaples]

I believe I've read that NR is well absorbed by the body and distributed to various organ systems. On another thread, someone claimed that 90% of NR taken orally is broken down into nicotinamide before it reaches the cells. I have seen ZERO documentation for this. If this were to be true, it would be very, very bad because nicotinamide can inhibit the sirtulins.

 

My understanding is that NR is far better than NMN because it doesn't get degraded in the gut and can instantly penetrate the cell membrane. There is a thesis out there that proves NMN has to be converted into NR before it can enter cells.

 

Anything you read from Mike or PP needs to be taken with a hefty grain of salt. On one hand, you have someone that is a cheerleader for NR to the point he spews crap he makes up without any supporting evidence that you begin to wonder if he is an industry insider and on the other hand, you have someone blatantly trolling him/everyone and spewing counter misinformation.

 

Why either is continuing to be tolerated is disappointing. It is polluting the information with garbage and confusing people.
 

Edit: Your last post and study link seems a bit different than my attachment.

Attached Files

•  index123.png   3.87KB   4 downloads

Edited by mikeinnaples, 26 April 2017 - 02:19 PM.

[MikeDC]

I believe I've read that NR is well absorbed by the body and distributed to various organ systems. On another thread, someone claimed that 90% of NR taken orally is broken down into nicotinamide before it reaches the cells. I have seen ZERO documentation for this. If this were to be true, it would be very, very bad because nicotinamide can inhibit the sirtulins.

My understanding is that NR is far better than NMN because it doesn't get degraded in the gut and can instantly penetrate the cell membrane. There is a thesis out there that proves NMN has to be converted into NR before it can enter cells.

Anything you read from Mike or PP needs to be taken with a hefty grain of salt. On one hand, you have someone that is a cheerleader for NR to the point he spews crap he makes up without any supporting evidence that you begin to wonder if he is an industry insider and on the other hand, you have someone blatantly trolling him/everyone and spewing counter misinformation.

Why either is continuing to be tolerated is disappointing. It is polluting the information with garbage and confusing people.

Edit: Your last post and study link seems a bit different than my attachment.

Just because you are ignorant, doesn't mean other people are cheer leading. My understanding of the science is way beyond your intelligence.

[mikeinnaples]

I am quick to admit when I don't know something and just as quick to admit when I am wrong. I have also pointed out things that you have posted that have been blatantly incorrect supported by actual data and facts. Insult me if you like, but you have to do better than going after my intelligence, the things I do for the space program cannot be done by someone lacking.