2255 replies to this topic

[Heisok]

Trim post off topic.

Edited by Heisok, 02 May 2017 - 08:48 PM.
trim quotes

[Fafner55]

 

 

Incidentally, my estimated biological age from http://www.aging.ai/  Aging.AI 2.0 is 28 years, which, while reassuring, makes me skeptical of its accuracy. I am nearly 62.

 

 

I repeated the Aging AI 2.0 test with lab results from 4/2011 and got a predicted age of 39. I was 56 at the time.

 

As of 2011 I had not taken supplements or medications other then 10 mg Crestor, which improved my cholesterol numbers and likely influenced the Aging.AI result.

Total chol. 126 mg/dL

Triglycerides 84

HDL 52

LDL 57

 

From a 2006 blood test taken before any supplements or medications, my predicted age was 43 compared to 51 years actual age.

Total chol. 186 mg/dL

Triglycerides 132

HDL 39

LDL 121

[Gingerbread Man]

 

After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level.

 

 

To be fair Nate, you have taken a bunch of different supplements over the last year, not just NR. Looks like you have taken NR with all kinds of different combinations of things during this time. Not super impressed by results of NR is not really being fair to the process.

 

Thank you as always for your posts, I do enjoy them.

[Dallasboy]

I have been taking niagen for about 5 years at 250mg on MWF only.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really!.....where were you getting Niagen from 5 years ago?

Always HPN. Did the group buys here.

Gotta say that seems a little strange as the group buy has only been going less than 3 years (July 2014) and HPN didn't start selling Niagen until around 3 years ago?

I guess it's been 4 years now. I started it about a year before I got married 3 years ago. I first bought it off a BB/supp website then found the group buys here.

Yes, I plan on 250mg per day from here on out. I started the MWF thing for all my supps/vitamins because I take between my morning/midday/night stack about 40 pills :-). Costs and give the body a break in between.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bluemoon]

 

 

After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level.

 

 

To be fair Nate, you have taken a bunch of different supplements over the last year, not just NR. Looks like you have taken NR with all kinds of different combinations of things during this time. Not super impressed by results of NR is not really being fair to the process.

 

 

 

Right, but only NR has been proven to extend the life expectancy of mice and give humans the super power of invisibility.

[soulprogrammer]

"Yes, I plan on 250mg per day from here on out. I started the MWF thing for all my supps/vitamins because I take between my morning/midday/night stack about 40 pills :-). Costs and give the body a break in between. "

 

40 pills per day? Perhaps you are over killing yourself with vitamins/supplements. 40 different supplement pills per day will definitely stress your liver/kidney too much.

 

BTW, do you feel any difference after taking  NR for one year? No feeling at all? Energy increase? 

[soulprogrammer]

 

 

 

Incidentally, my estimated biological age from http://www.aging.ai/  Aging.AI 2.0 is 28 years, which, while reassuring, makes me skeptical of its accuracy. I am nearly 62.

 

 

I repeated the Aging AI 2.0 test with lab results from 4/2011 and got a predicted age of 39. I was 56 at the time.

 

As of 2011 I had not taken supplements or medications other then 10 mg Crestor, which improved my cholesterol numbers and likely influenced the Aging.AI result.

Total chol. 126 mg/dL

Triglycerides 84

HDL 52

LDL 57

 

From a 2006 blood test taken before any supplements or medications, my predicted age was 43 compared to 51 years actual age.

Total chol. 186 mg/dL

Triglycerides 132

HDL 39

LDL 121

 

 

 

The Aging AI 2.0 not using only cholesterol for estimating B Age.  Important markers are metabolic, liver, renal system and respiratory function. Seems like Lipid profile is not important in the estimating of B Age. See their paper "Deep biomarkers of human aging: Application of deep neural networks to biomarker development Evgeny Putin"

 

 

Aging is a complex process and occurs at different rates

and to different extents in the various organ systems,

including respiratory, renal, hepatic, and metabolic [19,

20]. The analysis of relative feature importance within

the DNNs helped deduce the most important features

that may shed light on the contribution of these systems

to the aging process, ranked in the following order:

metabolic, liver, renal system and respiratory function.

The five markers related to these functions were

previously associated with aging and used to predict

human biological age [21, 22]. Another interesting

finding was the extraordinarily high importance of

albumin, which primarily controls the oncotic pressure

of blood. Albumin declines during aging and is

associated with sarcopenia [23]. The second marker by

relative importance is glucose, which is directly linked

to metabolic health. Cardiovascular diseases associated

with diabetes mellitus are major causes of death within

the general population [24].

[Nate-2004]

 

 

After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level.

 

 

To be fair Nate, you have taken a bunch of different supplements over the last year, not just NR. Looks like you have taken NR with all kinds of different combinations of things during this time. Not super impressed by results of NR is not really being fair to the process.

 

Thank you as always for your posts, I do enjoy them.

 

 

By impressed I'm referring to my recent lipid panel, I need to get another CMB and CMP though. Are you suggesting my other supplements have interfered with NR?

 

I've been pretty consistent with my stack actually. NR, Fish Oil, Carnosine, Curcumin, Methylfolate, D3, K, anti-tremor (Mg, Theanine, Taurine, Inositol) and my nootropic stack. There's not been anything I can recall, nor anything in that stack that would lead me to believe it interfered with the positive effects of NR.  There have been things I've tried and gave up more than a year ago, like C60 EVOO and other things I occasionally cycle in, Rosmarinic Acid, MK-677, hydrogen water, hydrolyzed collagen, tryptophan and lately Astragalus. I don't think those 5 things interfere either in fact one is a NAD+ precursor. 

 

NR is just one angle, the NAD+ angle, inflammation and AGE's are other angles. That involves a lot of other supplements, eating habits and activities.

Edited by Nate-2004, 03 May 2017 - 02:00 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Through the Wormhole With Morgan Freeman

Discussed the mysteries of aging Tuesday night. Title "Can we cheat Death?" David Sinclair was a guest and discussed NAD+ and sirtuins in aging and disease.

[Gingerbread Man]

 

 

 

After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level.

 

 

To be fair Nate, you have taken a bunch of different supplements over the last year, not just NR. Looks like you have taken NR with all kinds of different combinations of things during this time. Not super impressed by results of NR is not really being fair to the process.

 

Thank you as always for your posts, I do enjoy them.

 

 

By impressed I'm referring to my recent lipid panel, I need to get another CMB and CMP though. Are you suggesting my other supplements have interfered with NR?

 

I've been pretty consistent with my stack actually. NR, Fish Oil, Carnosine, Curcumin, Methylfolate, D3, K, anti-tremor (Mg, Theanine, Taurine, Inositol) and my nootropic stack. There's not been anything I can recall, nor anything in that stack that would lead me to believe it interfered with the positive effects of NR.  There have been things I've tried and gave up more than a year ago, like C60 EVOO and other things I occasionally cycle in, Rosmarinic Acid, MK-677, hydrogen water, hydrolyzed collagen, tryptophan and lately Astragalus. I don't think those 5 things interfere either in fact one is a NAD+ precursor. 

 

 

No Nate, I am saying with the amounts of other supplements you have taken over the last year, it would be hard to say the results you are talking about from this "After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level." Can be attributed to just NR. Here is a quote from October where you mention many other things you have taken over the last year as well.

 

 

"My stack is huge though, I am making cuts in it, for money reasons as well as narrowing down what may be causing this.

 

NR

Resveratrol

Pterostilbene

D and K

Glutamine (gut health)

NAG (gut health)

Glucosamine sulfate (had a free sample)

L-carnosine (n-acetyl) 500mg each meal

Pomegranate extract (gut health)

Creatine

B-complex

R-ALA (just in the last week, could be this, not sure)

zinc

rarely copper

Curcumin

 

Other stuff:

 

Nootropics like ginkgo, bacopa, ginseng, l-carnitine and l-theanine

 

Hydrogen Water made with magnesium and malic acid.

 

I quit taking quercetin and now only take Apigenin a couple times a week due to the half-life.

 

Maybe it's one of the above, maybe not. It's way too big of a stack and I plan to narrow it down to just NR and resveratrol for a while."

 

 

 

Looking back at some of my threads, something I learned from you and one of your posts, that sums up what I am saying. Post #824 from the personal experiences thread.

 

"Any anecdotal experiences attributed to NR could just as easily be attributed to something else they're doing."

 

 

All I am saying is with so many things, supplement wise going on, it would be hard to pinpoint what you can attribute to just NR and whether it is doing what you are comparing it to.

 

I was not trying to pick at you, as I have said, I find your posts some of the ones I like to read the most. I just didn't think that was a fair comment to the process of evaluating what NR was doing for you in regards to the comment.

 

Have a good day.

Any anecdotal experiences attributed to NR could just as easily be attributed to something else they're doing. Anecdotes and self-experimentation are hardly science. That's why I take whatever is said in this thread, positive or negative, with a small grain of salt. I'd rather depend on a future of robust study involving replication, high sample sizes, double blindness, and peer review. We'll get a better picture of the whole thing in the next couple of years I think. Hopefully the consistency is high and the results are quite positive. 

 

Edited by Qrazy, 04 May 2017 - 11:45 AM.

[MikeDC]

Resveratrol is useless compared to Niagen. Most supplements are useless and can
Cause side effects. Only pick the gemes like
niagen, Ubiquinol, fish oil,

[bluemoon]

  40 different supplement pills per day will definitely stress your liver/kidney too much.

 

 

Tell that to Ray Kurzweil.

 

To anyone who saw the recent Morgan Freeman show with David Sinclair, can you summarize in a sentence or two what was said between them?  

[midas]

 

  40 different supplement pills per day will definitely stress your liver/kidney too much.

 

 

Tell that to Ray Kurzweil.

 

To anyone who saw the recent Morgan Freeman show with David Sinclair, can you summarize in a sentence or two what was said between them?  

 

 

Nothing was said by Sinclair that he didn't say nearly 4 years ago...So nothing new there..

[bluemoon]

  

 

 

Nothing was said by Sinclair that he didn't say nearly 4 years ago...So nothing new there..

 

 

Thanks. I suspected that. 

[Nate-2004]

No Nate, I am saying with the amounts of other supplements you have taken over the last year, it would be hard to say the results you are talking about from this "After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level." Can be attributed to just NR. Here is a quote from October where you mention many other things you have taken over the last year as well.

 

 

"My stack is huge though, I am making cuts in it, for money reasons as well as narrowing down what may be causing this.

 

NR

Resveratrol

Pterostilbene

D and K

Glutamine (gut health)

NAG (gut health)

Glucosamine sulfate (had a free sample)

L-carnosine (n-acetyl) 500mg each meal

Pomegranate extract (gut health)

Creatine

B-complex

R-ALA (just in the last week, could be this, not sure)

zinc

rarely copper

Curcumin

 

Other stuff:

 

Nootropics like ginkgo, bacopa, ginseng, l-carnitine and l-theanine

 

Hydrogen Water made with magnesium and malic acid.

 

I quit taking quercetin and now only take Apigenin a couple times a week due to the half-life.

 

Maybe it's one of the above, maybe not. It's way too big of a stack and I plan to narrow it down to just NR and resveratrol for a while."

 

 

 

Looking back at some of my threads, something I learned from you and one of your posts, that sums up what I am saying. Post #824 from the personal experiences thread.

 

"Any anecdotal experiences attributed to NR could just as easily be attributed to something else they're doing."

 

 

All I am saying is with so many things, supplement wise going on, it would be hard to pinpoint what you can attribute to just NR and whether it is doing what you are comparing it to.

 

I was not trying to pick at you, as I have said, I find your posts some of the ones I like to read the most. I just didn't think that was a fair comment to the process of evaluating what NR was doing for you in regards to the comment.

 

Have a good day.

Any anecdotal experiences attributed to NR could just as easily be attributed to something else they're doing. Anecdotes and self-experimentation are hardly science. That's why I take whatever is said in this thread, positive or negative, with a small grain of salt. I'd rather depend on a future of robust study involving replication, high sample sizes, double blindness, and peer review. We'll get a better picture of the whole thing in the next couple of years I think. Hopefully the consistency is high and the results are quite positive. 

 

 

 

Qrazy that hasn't been my stack in months. What I mentioned above is my current stack. I don't follow your logic though.

 

I've been taking NR for a year. I've been taking other various supplements for just as long. If I've been taking NR all that time and do not see test results I'm impressed with then either this is because the rest of my stack which targets other angles of aging (inflammation, AGEs, telomeres, microbiome, etc) somehow interferes with the results of NR, or NR does not have that much of an effect on my biomarkers.  That said, I need more testing done, another CMB and CMP, for comparison.

 

I get that self-experimentation is hardly science, I'm far more reliant on well designed, long and short term controlled trials with large sample sizes and repeated, independently replicated results. If I were able to participate in one of these studies I would. 

 

I think some of you guys see "40 pills" and want to make blanket statements about *all* those pills and their effects on the liver just because there's "a lot". You can't say that without addressing the content and function of each one.  I don't think I listed 40 up there, I do think I have about 20 if you include muscle feast protein powder.

 

Unless any one of those "40 pills" affects the bioavailability or effectiveness of NR, there's no reason to conclude that I shouldn't be unimpressed after a year of NR.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what the final answer is on when to take NR. The bottle says with a meal in the morning. I'm guessing that's still the suggested way.

[soulprogrammer]

I will say most if not all supplements are toxic to a certain degree (very low toxin) to our liver and/or kidney. If it is man-made, it certainly contains small amount of toxin. If one is to take 5-10 pills per day, it is alright, our liver can flush out the toxin with no noticeable side effects. But taking >10 pills a day, in my opinion, it is overload for liver to detoxify the large amount of toxin.

 

I will suggest one choose with care with only 10 pills a day (choose the best 10 you think it will work). Anything that is super large dose will be hurting your liver, whatever the supplement that be. 

Edited by soulprogrammer, 04 May 2017 - 02:27 PM.

[Nate-2004]

I will say most if not all supplements are toxic to a certain degree (very low toxin) to our liver and/or kidney. If it is man-made, it certainly contains small amount of toxin. If one is to take 5-10 pills per day, it is alright, our liver can flush out the toxin with no noticeable side effects. But taking >10 pills a day, in my opinion, it is overload for liver to detoxify the large amount of toxin.

 

I will suggest one choose with care with only 10 pills a day (choose the best 10 you think it will work). Anything that is super large dose will be hurting your liver, whatever the supplement that be. 

 

Blanket statements like this are what I'm talking about. For one thing, post references. For another, it doesn't address the pharmacokinetics of any particular one of the supplements. You're also spouting general, vague terms like "toxins". The quantity of veg caps is irrelevant to the content and weight, bioavailability, etc.

[Gingerbread Man]

 

 

 

Qrazy that hasn't been my stack in months. What I mentioned above is my current stack. I don't follow your logic though.

 

I've been taking NR for a year. I've been taking other various supplements for just as long. If I've been taking NR all that time and do not see test results I'm impressed with then either this is because the rest of my stack which targets other angles of aging (inflammation, AGEs, telomeres, microbiome, etc) somehow interferes with the results of NR, or NR does not have that much of an effect on my biomarkers.  That said, I need more testing done, another CMB and CMP, for comparison.

 

 

 

Unless any one of those "40 pills" affects the bioavailability or effectiveness of NR, there's no reason to conclude that I shouldn't be unimpressed after a year of NR.

 

I think your are overreaching as to what my point was my friend. Here was the original post I was referring to.

 

I'm very curious about this Aging AI 2.0 thing, especially in regards to how it works, but let's start a separate thread about it. I have recent blood test results but I seriously doubt I have all the details required by this AI system. They only did a lipid panel, hemoglobin, STD's and other standard tests. After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level.

 

I understand that hasn't been your stack in months, I was showing that in October you had a multitude of supplements along with NR, now here, 6 months later you still run a varied group of supplements with NR. Your statement was "After more than a year taking NR I'm not super impressed by the results, even if they are at a healthy "normal" level."

My point is if you want to see what effect NR has on your levels you really need to take it alone. That is the only real way to see if it has any kind of impressive or unimpressive results on your tests. That was my only point.

 

For me, as long as I don't have negative results that outweigh the positives from taking NR I will continue to do so.

 

Talking about when to take NR, I have switched to taking 100 mg at night before bed with 100mg Ubiquinol (still the best sleep I have had in years this way) and only take additional NR when I feel I need a pick me up during the day. Other than that the night dosing seems to still working well for all my other issues that NR is helping with.

[soulprogrammer]

We all know processed foods are bad, compared to fresh, natural unprocessed food.  Why processed or highly refined food are bad? Because a lot of man-made activity and processes that add into the products.

 

Isn't all supplements are processed? With this logic, one can argue that supplement, which are processed by human, will have a tiny amount of toxin. 

 

When you consume large amount of supplements a day, if the amount of toxins is larger than your liver can handle, toxin will slowly accumulate in your body. 

 

Of course, this is just pure speculation. Well, perhaps you can try to take 40 pills a day for one year, then 10 pills a day for one year and see the difference. 

 

Anyway, this is really off-topic. I won't discuss further, maybe in another thread.

[Harkijn]

Mike, Soulprogrammer, Nate, Bluemoon, Qrazy: Nate proposed to start a separate thread about Aging AI and how to compare results. I support this idea. The discussion is important and fascinating but it is not science, so it deserves a place of its own, either in the experiences thread or as a new topic.

Probably Michael will be willing to move the discussions you had sofar to the new thread. If so, Michael, I am ok with deleting this post. Thanks all.

[super-human]

I decided I was going to try a 1250 mg 7 day test of NR.  On day one I took the NR over the course of the day and in the middle of the night I had stomach aches. In the morning I had a massive (hangover like) headache that lasted for hours.  Needless to say my liver was over taxed which indicates the body does view NR as a toxin to be cleared.

 

Needless to say I did not carry on with the test. The only positive I felt was a day later when I went for a run and felt strong.

 

 

[aribadabar]

I decided I was going to try a 1250 mg 7 day test of NR.  On day one I took the NR over the course of the day and in the middle of the night I had stomach aches. In the morning I had a massive (hangover like) headache that lasted for hours.  Needless to say my liver was over taxed which indicates the body does view NR as a toxin to be cleared.

 

Needless to say I did not carry on with the test. The only positive I felt was a day later when I went for a run and felt strong.

 

The dose makes the poison. Needless to say, you overdosed.

NR is clearly not a toxin since it is a NAD+ precursor,an intermediate step in the cell energy metabolism. I am fairly certain you would not have experienced negative effects if you stuck to the recommended 250 mg/d.

Edited by aribadabar, 04 May 2017 - 05:09 PM.

[stefan_001]

 

I decided I was going to try a 1250 mg 7 day test of NR.  On day one I took the NR over the course of the day and in the middle of the night I had stomach aches. In the morning I had a massive (hangover like) headache that lasted for hours.  Needless to say my liver was over taxed which indicates the body does view NR as a toxin to be cleared.

 

Needless to say I did not carry on with the test. The only positive I felt was a day later when I went for a run and felt strong.

 

The dose makes the poison. Needless to say, you overdosed.

NR is clearly not a toxin since it is a NAD+ precursor,an intermediate step in the cell energy metabolism. I am fairly certain you would not have experienced negative effects if you stuck to the recommended 250 mg/d.

 

 

Overdose? So how could Niagen cause hangover like headache?
 

[Mike C]

I posted months ago about a study showing rats had 35% reduction in exercise performance and my post was basically rejected as not worth much. Tonight I just so happened to read this very sites supplement review of NR and what do I see:

"While NR supplementation seems to have multiple benefits in laboratory animals we should notice that research in this area has only started. To the best of our knowledge no human data on the health effects of NR has been published so far. Also the reduced exercise performance in rats fed NR is a warning that we shouldn’t implement NR supplementation in healthy humans as of yet (Kourtzidis et al., 2016). In a few years more data about NR should be available allowing us to make a much more informed decision."

So this very sites is recommending that we not take this stuff yet. But some may say that since this reveiw was written one human study has been published, but did they measure exercise performance? Also there were only16 people in that study.

This stuff is far from proven and my own experience with it was that it did curtail my exercise performance.

Edited by Mike C, 07 May 2017 - 12:12 AM.

[SearchHorizon]

NR should not directly boost performance in a single exercise session - but allow one to have faster IMPROVEMENTS over multiple exercise sessions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeDC]

I posted months ago about a study showing rats had 35% reduction in exercise performance and my post was basically rejected as not worth much. Tonight I just so happened to read this very sites supplement review of NR and what do I see:

"While NR supplementation seems to have multiple benefits in laboratory animals we should notice that research in this area has only started. To the best of our knowledge no human data on the health effects of NR has been published so far. Also the reduced exercise performance in rats fed NR is a warning that we shouldn’t implement NR supplementation in healthy humans as of yet (Kourtzidis et al., 2016). In a few years more data about NR should be available allowing us to make a much more informed decision."

So this very sites is recommending that we not take this stuff yet. But some may say that since this reveiw was written one human study has been published, but did they measure exercise performance? Also there were only16 people in that study.

This stuff is far from proven and my own experience with it was that it did curtail my exercise performance.

200,000 people are spending money and taking it and getting benefits. The rat study will be proven to be flawed.

[Valijon]

Apparently, Niacinamide plus Ribose is more effecting than NR at boosting NAD+ levels.

[MikeDC]

Apparently, Niacinamide plus Ribose is more effecting than NR at boosting NAD+ levels.

How apparent?

[Valijon]

I asked this today and the answer is here: http://www.longecity...cs/#entry814759

Attached Files

•  Digestion-and-Absoption-of-NAD-by-the-Small-Intestine-of-the-Rat.pdf   1.15MB   10 downloads

Edited by Valijon, 07 May 2017 - 02:22 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I posted months ago about a study showing rats had 35% reduction in exercise performance and my post was basically rejected as not worth much. Tonight I just so happened to read this very sites supplement review of NR and what do I see:
 

 

 

Of course NR will reduce exercise performance. Raising the NAD+/NADH ratio will fission mitochondria and set the QC process in motion. This will naturally result in less ATP production since fissioned mitochondria are less efficient. You have to allow for subsequent fusion and biogenesis to obtain a benefit.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 07 May 2017 - 02:24 AM.